How Islam or Ismailism Reach to the people who dont know ?

[FayyazValani2017]

Ya Ali Madad
Questions in my mind keep arising , and this is the only place where i can find my answers

I request everyone not to start any other topics.

Question : There are thousands of tribes in this world , who lived in jungles and unknown to Religion , Talking about Ismailism specifically , Not only tribes living in jungle but christians and other also , Who dont know anything about Islam
So for me Ismailism is the right religion , so what about people who dont know anything about Moula ? who will they achieved Salvation ?
Thank you

[kmaherali]

Salvation is not exclusively reserved for Ismailis only. There are many tariqahs in Islam and outside Islam engaged in the quest for spiritual enlightenment.

Whoever seeks will find. Mowlana Rumi was not an Ismaili, yet he attained the truth through his search. Hafiz was not an Ismaili yet he attained the truth.

[FayyazValani2017]

Ya Ali Madad
Thank you for replying
I have once read a ginan verse which states There is no Salvation without True Guide "Satgur vina mugat na hoy" Kahore Pandito By Pir Sadardin . I read that on an Instagram account @ginanguru Link

I might be mis-interpretating it ,it might mean something else , if yes please tell me
Thank you [/url]

[kmaherali]

Ya Ali Madad
Thank you for replying
I have once read a ginan verse which states There is no Salvation without True Guide "Satgur vina mugat na hoy" Kahore Pandito By Pir Sadardin . I read that on an Instagram account @ginanguru Link

I might be mis-interpretating it ,it might mean something else , if yes please tell me
Thank you [/url]

Yes a Guru is important in any esoteric tradition. Each Sufi tariqah has a Sheikh. The difference between Ismailism and other tariqahs is that our Guru is a hereditary office whereas other tariqahs have their own method of appointing/nomination the Guru.

Whereas in Ismailism the Imams are pure and elevated since birth, other Guides are elevated through spiritual methods.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad
Thank you for replying
I have once read a ginan verse which states There is no Salvation without True Guide "Satgur vina mugat na hoy" Kahore Pandito By Pir Sadardin . I read that on an Instagram account @ginanguru Link

I might be mis-interpretating it ,it might mean something else , if yes please tell me
Thank you [/url]

Yes a Guru is important in any esoteric tradition. Each Sufi tariqah has a Sheikh. The difference between Ismailism and other tariqahs is that our Guru is a hereditary office whereas other tariqahs have their own method of appointing/nomination the Guru.

Whereas in Ismailism the Imams are pure and elevated since birth, other Guides are elevated through spiritual methods.

Finally you drifted away from your ideology that Imam is God!
You wrote," Our Guru is hereditary ". But Allah is not hereditary, He has no family, " LUM YALID WA LUMYULAD ".
Further you wrote," Where as in Ismailism the Imams are pure and elevated since birth". According to you as Imams are elevated souls by birth means elevated by Allah and elevated to Allah.

[shivaathervedi]

ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1107

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Why Hazir Imam didnt save ismaili's of Al-azhar Incident Reply with quote
shivaathervedi wrote:
FayyazValani2017 wrote:
Ya Ali Madad
Sorry For posting so much , but i am interested in religion so much that i think about it 24/7 . and when i think about my religion , more and more questions arises.
So I kept on posting , sorry for that , i dont know anyone who is actually interested in religion , so i have no one to discuss to be honest . and this is the only place where i can get good response and answers so , thats why i kept on posting

My Question :
See my question is We Believe Ali is Allah , All powerful etc.
And Hazir Imam is capable of everything . I am not saying he is not powerful or not doubting his power etc , but Why Do Hazir Imam didnt save the Victims of Al-Azhar incident , or why God dont saves people who are suffering very badly

I mean if his murids are in trouble he should save his murids , sorry not to hurt anyone's feeling , i am here to learn . I am a ismaili btw . And please give a haqiqati answer, I am here for haqiqat not Shariat and Tariqqat , icon_smile.gif


Hazar Imam never claim to be God. This is blasphemous.
Why Allah (all powerful) did not save 50,000 innocent Pakistanis killed by terrorists in past few years?
Let Admin, Nuseri, Kmaherali address your above question, because they believe Imam is God.


I will not address Fayaz's question but rather your stupid one-claim, that Ali is not Allah - that is your understanding - and you are welcome to that.
Please don't claim to speak for Ismailies or Ismailism.

Shams


Shams ji Aadaab;
My previous answer to you was deleted by Admin (biased attitude), locked the thread and left your post alive. Oh well HUM JO THHAREY AJNABI.
Being as a senior on this forum it was your responsibility to address the issue raised by Fayyaz but instead you came after me though it was not my issue.
You are a knowledgeable person. You know meaning of Du'a. The Du'a translation is provided by ITREB and in second part the meaning of ALIYULLAH MENTIONED IS " ALI IS FROM ALLAH ". On yearly basis jamaits are explained meaning of Du'a twice where the phrase ALIYULLA is translated as ALI IS FROM ALLAH, in Urdu "ALI ALLAH KI TARAF SE HAI" I am following what on Imam's instructions ITREBS are translating or explaining. Why to blame me. Discuss this issue with ITREB instead of bashing, hurling words like stupid etc towards me.

[shivaathervedi]

Salvation is not exclusively reserved for Ismailis only. There are many tariqahs in Islam and outside Islam engaged in the quest for spiritual enlightenment.

Whoever seeks will find. Mowlana Rumi was not an Ismaili, yet he attained the truth through his search. Hafiz was not an Ismaili yet he attained the truth.

Appreciate your change in thinking. You wrote," Salvation is not exclusively RESERVED for Ismailis only". This is REALISTIC POSITIVE THINKING.

Finally you distanced yourself from old Satpunthi ideology/mythology that only Ismailis will get salvation and go to paradise.

[kmaherali]

Finally you drifted away from your ideology that Imam is God!
You wrote," Our Guru is hereditary ". But Allah is not hereditary, He has no family, " LUM YALID WA LUMYULAD ".
Further you wrote," Where as in Ismailism the Imams are pure and elevated since birth". According to you as Imams are elevated souls by birth means elevated by Allah and elevated to Allah.

No I haven't...

Consider Sura Nur: Allah is the Light of the heavens and earth

Then the phrase Light upon Light. Think about it, what sense does it make to say Light upon Light? Are there any boundaries attached to light such that there can be light upon light.

Light upon Light can only mean perpetuation of the Light through hereditary means without interruptions. Hence on Light (Allah = Imam) is succeeded by another Light (Allah = Imam).

Also this Light is not influenced ot elevated by anything external to it - "As though no fire touched it". It is self perpetuating without any external influence.

Therefore the Light of Imamat is not influenced by anything external to it. It is itself ALLAH the absolute.

[kmaherali]

Finally you distanced yourself from old Satpunthi ideology/mythology that only Ismailis will get salvation and go to paradise.

I never held that view. On the contrary I quote Rumi quite often. Why would I quote him if I did not think he attained salvation?

[nuseri]

Ya Ali MADAD:
Does kulluallahuahad and allahusamad.
Is explained from ITREB booklet that Allah is from Ahad and Allah is from samad.,it mentions Allah is Ahad and samad.
All the links name +u + status means IS.
not from it kufic Arabic language.
The word Allah is an egg ,an holding shell having the true substance of the egg.
Break the egg ,the truth is seen.
If one says egg is egg is right if one make specific the yolk of the egg is from the shell of the egg is Also right.
Fools wants to know differently ,so the articulation of the explanation.
If Tariqa were to be haqiqati from the word GO,then their name would have been haqiqati board ( akin to our higher level majlis).
with Imams going thru Daur a satr ( low profile) so total haqiqati from a formal board could get of lot of law suits and presumed harm to Ismailis in anti Shi'a countries.
Ptophet Mohammed has said that that Position (IMAMAT) of ALI is like Allahuahad as in Quran.
Whether one was see eggs to eat on table as eggs on table from broken shell.
The word Laa ,that needs to sniffed out or KICKED OFF from Allah then remains the true substance ALI.
for that a rational mind needs to read fans of Imam jaffer sadiq & Aga Ali Shah word by words many times over.
Unblessed or cursed ignorants assuming itself as cunning will not accept truth.( keep barking till admin allows) after death ALI has judgement resevered already on you.
1+0= 1.
so 1 on left is = 1 on right.
and 1 on right is from 1 from left.
Egg is egg.
or egg is from shell of the egg.
Remember chicken is important and not the shell finally.
Shell is shariat to to break free upon.
Only fools will egg is formless,beyond comprehension, beyond this that & all.
Those are unfortunates and unlucky on earth.

[FayyazValani2017]

Ya Ali Madad
Shivaathervedi , Brother
the concept of Ali And Allah have been already discussed on this forum many times. Wish i have the power to delete comments . May Admin Take some action

[FayyazValani2017]

Ya Ali Madad
Thank you for replying
I have once read a ginan verse which states There is no Salvation without True Guide "Satgur vina mugat na hoy" Kahore Pandito By Pir Sadardin . I read that on an Instagram account @ginanguru Link

I might be mis-interpretating it ,it might mean something else , if yes please tell me
Thank you [/url]

Yes a Guru is important in any esoteric tradition. Each Sufi tariqah has a Sheikh. The difference between Ismailism and other tariqahs is that our Guru is a hereditary office whereas other tariqahs have their own method of appointing/nomination the Guru.

Whereas in Ismailism the Imams are pure and elevated since birth, other Guides are elevated through spiritual methods.

Km bhai we are taking Ali as Allah , nur of imamat is nur of Allah so if only we are following it and no one else is following Allah , then how can they attain salvation . If you are not following the Allah , how can you get salavation

[kmaherali]

Km bhai we are taking Ali as Allah , nur of imamat is nur of Allah so if only we are following it and no one else is following Allah , then how can they attain salvation . If you are not following the Allah , how can you get salavation

In an esoteric tradition the goal is to become Fanna Fi Allah meaning 'becoming one with God'. Hence anyone can be one with Allah. The difference between the Imam and another person who is one with Allah is that the former is elevated by birth, i.e. he does not have to elevate himself whereas the latter is elevated through personal efforts. Hence others such as Hallaj, Rumi Hafiz Yogananda also attained the status of the Imam.

MSMS in one of his Farmans said : Tame amaaraa jevaa thaao meaning 'become like us' hence it is possible to become God like the Imam.

More discussion on this is at:


can humans BE God?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... d%20mansur

[FayyazValani2017]

Ok , Interesting i will read that.
All those old yogis and people who claim to be miraculous , i mean they can perform miracles , Like Pir Satgur Noor when tried to spread Ismailism , the idol worshipper did a miracle and throw the chapple in the air , and in reponse Pir Make the Idol fill some water .
So Idol Worshipper , was wrong , but still Got Powers, While Pir Satgur Noor was Right , and have much superior powers .
So Is it like , Religion is just our thought , there is in actual no God , it is us who can create things and make things by our ownself , and If there is God , Only Good peoples should get powers , and If anyone can be God isnt this like thousands of God in this world . I mean then whats the need of God anyways , And If you can be God , then why are you asking help from another God , when you are a God :p sorry its interesting yet confusing , and Still My Question isnt clear that Why We Follow Imam , When you can reach marifat or be one with God even without the Imam . And Those who dont follow God how can they attain salvation . Like In Our Tariqah , We Ask from Ali but in Sunni Islam they ask from Allah , which is the same thing but for him it is the Allah not Ali .in Sufi it might be different , and another thing is Salvation is only reserved to Non-idol worshipper . Or Everyone can do it . i mean you said it not restricted to anyone . So anyone can even Hindus and Christians and Jews or Satanist can do attain salvation
Not making fun but just confusing to me . as my small brain cant process all of this + school studies.
Sorry Km bhai <3 thank you it is interesting

[Admin]

Please do not discuss Ali Allah here. I have already close some discussion because they become a hotch potch of every subjects in the planet and therefore useless for the search engines. Keep to the subject please.

[kmaherali]

And If you can be God , then why are you asking help from another God , when you are a God :p sorry its interesting yet confusing , and Still My Question isnt clear that Why We Follow Imam , When you can reach marifat or be one with God even without the Imam . And Those who dont follow God how can they attain salvation . Like In Our Tariqah , We Ask from Ali but in Sunni Islam they ask from Allah , which is the same thing but for him it is the Allah not Ali .in Sufi it might be different , and another thing is Salvation is only reserved to Non-idol worshipper . Or Everyone can do it . i mean you said it not restricted to anyone . So anyone can even Hindus and Christians and Jews or Satanist can do attain salvation
Not making fun but just confusing to me . as my small brain cant process all of this + school studies.
Sorry Km bhai <3 thank you it is interesting

You cannot become God by just saying so. You have to make an effort and become Fanna Fi Allah. It is not a simple task. But he or she who seriously strives to become God can be.

This applies to any tariqah be it in Islam or other faith.

The difference between Ismailis and other faiths is that we already have a Guru from birth. We don't have to seek a Guide. In that sense the path is simplified for us. Others have to seek the Guide who is most appropriate for them.

Once you become God, you can have anything and create anything you want at will. No external support is required, although for the sake of others you will also pray.

[Admin]

Still My Question isnt clear that Why We Follow Imam , When you can reach marifat or be one with God even without the Imam . And Those who dont follow God how can they attain salvation . Like In Our Tariqah , We Ask from Ali but in Sunni Islam they ask from Allah , which is the same thing but for him it is the Allah not Ali

Please do not bring the same Ali-Allah topic in every thread that you start. I hope you do not want all of them to be locked. If this is the subject you want to discuss, please do not hide behind various titles. Just read what has already been discussed on the topic and if you want to add, you are welcome but in the appropriate thread, not here.

[shivaathervedi]

Finally you drifted away from your ideology that Imam is God!
You wrote," Our Guru is hereditary ". But Allah is not hereditary, He has no family, " LUM YALID WA LUMYULAD ".
Further you wrote," Where as in Ismailism the Imams are pure and elevated since birth". According to you as Imams are elevated souls by birth means elevated by Allah and elevated to Allah.

No I haven't...

Consider Sura Nur: Allah is the Light of the heavens and earth

Then the phrase Light upon Light. Think about it, what sense does it make to say Light upon Light? Are there any boundaries attached to light such that there can be light upon light.

Light upon Light can only mean perpetuation of the Light through hereditary means without interruptions. Hence on Light (Allah = Imam) is succeeded by another Light (Allah = Imam).

Also this Light is not influenced ot elevated by anything external to it - "As though no fire touched it". It is self perpetuating without any external influence.

Therefore the Light of Imamat is not influenced by anything external to it. It is itself ALLAH the absolute.

You wrote," No I haven't ", but please read again what you wrote, " Our Guru is hereditary". You are negating your statement.
I have seen while quoting Ayat e Noor, Ismailis mostly do not mention the last paragraph which reads," ALLAH SET FORTH PARABLES FOR MEN, AND ALLAH KNOWS EVERY THING".
Allah has explained the Ayat e Noor in parables and no where is the word Imam mentioned in this Ayat or Imam= Allah!!
Ayat e Noor starts with, Allah is Noor of heavens and earth. Every particle on earth and in heaven is Noor of Allah or Mazhar of Allah whether it is stone, tree, mountain, humans including Prophets, Imam, Pis, saints, animals and what ever creation of Allah. In real sense Noor is not equivalent to worldly light. In my opinion Noor is the binding force of particles in universe. The day the Noor is turned off universe will collapse.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali MADAD:
Does kulluallahuahad and allahusamad.
Is explained from ITREB booklet that Allah is from Ahad and Allah is from samad.,it mentions Allah is Ahad and samad.
All the links name +u + status means IS.
not from it kufic Arabic language.
The word Allah is an egg ,an holding shell having the true substance of the egg.
Break the egg ,the truth is seen.
If one says egg is egg is right if one make specific the yolk of the egg is from the shell of the egg is Also right.
Fools wants to know differently ,so the articulation of the explanation.
If Tariqa were to be haqiqati from the word GO,then their name would have been haqiqati board ( akin to our higher level majlis).
with Imams going thru Daur a satr ( low profile) so total haqiqati from a formal board could get of lot of law suits and presumed harm to Ismailis in anti Shi'a countries.
Ptophet Mohammed has said that that Position (IMAMAT) of ALI is like Allahuahad as in Quran.
Whether one was see eggs to eat on table as eggs on table from broken shell.
The word Laa ,that needs to sniffed out or KICKED OFF from Allah then remains the true substance ALI.
for that a rational mind needs to read fans of Imam jaffer sadiq & Aga Ali Shah word by words many times over.
Unblessed or cursed ignorants assuming itself as cunning will not accept truth.( keep barking till admin allows) after death ALI has judgement resevered already on you.
1+0= 1.
so 1 on left is = 1 on right.
and 1 on right is from 1 from left.
Egg is egg.
or egg is from shell of the egg.
Remember chicken is important and not the shell finally.
Shell is shariat to to break free upon.
Only fools will egg is formless,beyond comprehension, beyond this that & all.
Those are unfortunates and unlucky on earth.

Learn Arabic and then show your expertise. In Arabic U does not mean IS.
U according to Arabic grammar is OF. Like kitabullah means Kitab OF Allah or Noorullah means Noor OF Allah.
From shell of egg comes out chicken, it shows chicken is because of shell. So in same way Ali is from ALLAH. (according to your example).

[Admin]

As this thread is polluted by too many topics except anything to do with the title, it has now been closed.