Mukhi Kamadia's

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:24 pm

kmaherali wrote:MHI made the following Farman:

"The Mukhis and Kamadias who are the Imam's representatives in the Jamatkhanas receive directions more and more so. And I wish it to be clear therefore that in Tariqah matters, I am aware and there will be no change in the essence of our faith." (Dar -es-Salaam, Oct 6, 1988)

From the above it is quite clear that the MKs have main authority as far as Jamati matters are concerned. The ITREBs and the Council are only in advisory capacity, but the decisions as to what should take place in JKs is the responsibility of the MKs.

No doubt Mukhi and Kamadia are representative of Imam as LIF chairperson, or council's president or ITREB chairman. They all represent Imam. You missed my point, I asked," after 3/6 years when their term is over do they still have spiritual powers granted by Imam?" Is Mukhi for ever Mukhi?

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:40 pm

Admin wrote:Mukhi is Mukhi for the time of his appointment. He gives chanta to the president of the council in the hospital before death and when the president dies, Mukhi gives him the last chanta.

Mukhi represent the Imam. All these clowns who diminish the status of the Mukhi or try to restrict him between 4 walls are the enemies of the Imam.

You missed my point. I asked," after 3/6 years when their term is over do Mukhi still posses the spiritual powers or not granted by Imam?"
Problem is the jurisdiction. A person went to ITREB to solve some religious problem. ITREB person said this is not our jurisdiction talk to Mukhi. He approached to Mukhi Saheb and requested, the answer he got was, this is not my jurisdiction talk to president of council and council sent him back to ITREB. The person was disappointed and said from here my jurisdiction starts because none office bearers is answering me properly.

Post by **Admin** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:07 pm

Once Mukhi's term is over, he does not possess the spiritual legitimacy but he keeps the respect associated to the post he served as for the rest of his life.

The Constitution/Rules & Regulations provide for the fact that in the absence of presently appointed Mukhi, the previous Mukhi seats on thePat on behalf of Hazar Imam to preside to all of the ceremonies.

When he does that, his spiritual responsibilities are given to him by the Current Mukhi and by virtue of an ismiali Constitution signed by Hazar Imam.

In practice however, it is not uncommon to see that Mukhi's prerogatives in many matters are superceeded by illegitimate people. By illegitimate, I mean people who have not been given that right by the Ismaili Constitution.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:40 pm

shivaathervedi wrote:No doubt Mukhi and Kamadia are representative of Imam as LIF chairperson, or council's president or ITREB chairman. They all represent Imam. You missed my point, I asked," after 3/6 years when their term is over do they still have spiritual powers granted by Imam?" Is Mukhi for ever Mukhi?

There is a phrase current in our Jamat: "Once a Mukhi always a Mukhi". I am not sure if it came from the Imam but a Mukhi is always regarded as such by the Jamat even after his appointment has expired.

No doubt he does not have the same authority as the current Mukhi, but the resepct and affection of the Jamat is always there depending of course how the Jamat was treated!

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:44 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:No doubt Mukhi and Kamadia are representative of Imam as LIF chairperson, or council's president or ITREB chairman. They all represent Imam. You missed my point, I asked," after 3/6 years when their term is over do they still have spiritual powers granted by Imam?" Is Mukhi for ever Mukhi?
There is a phrase current in our Jamat: "Once a Mukhi always a Mukhi". I am not sure if it came from the Imam but a Mukhi is always regarded as such by the Jamat even after his appointment has expired.

No doubt he does not have the same authority as the current Mukhi, but the resepct and affection of the Jamat is always there depending of course how the Jamat was treated!

I have heard one other phrase," Jaisi Jamait Waisa Mukhi", As the Jamait, so the type of Mukhi, interesting!!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:30 pm

nagib wrote:Well I have to strongly disagree here. The Imam appoints Mukhis AND Mukhianis for a certain term. If Mukhi dies, no Council can remove Mukhiani from her position. Once Mukhiani has been apointed for a term, even Council member has to obey her as she detaines spiritual authority then on behalf of the Imam not on behalf of the Council or the Jamat.

Spiritual authority has preseance over administative authority. Hazar Imam has made clear in his interview with LBC that Council is only a civil body.

Nagib

In Calgary NWJK there was a situation whereby the Chalu Kamadia passed away recently. There was a Talika read out last Friday and a new appointment of Kamadia Saheb was announced in it.

The Kamadiani was replaced by the wife of the new Kamadia Saheb.

Post by **Admin** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:05 pm

Hazar Imam can remove and appoint whoever he wants. It is not the case of administration. Only Imam can do that. If it comes through Talika, it just reinforce the point that only Hazar Imam has that authority.

The Administration (Council, Huzur, or ITREB) can not remove any person appointed by the Imam (unless with a fake Talika) In the past it has happen that appointments Talikas have been changed by Council president, in particular Mukhi Sadru Punjani told me that it happened during his time when he saw the Talika in the morning and it was taken from his hand and given him back at night with several names changed by hand by the Council President.

In one of the town I visited recently in Sindh, the Mukhi of a mandli had died 8 months ago. The Mukhiani was still sitting on the Paat as Mukhiani.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:33 pm

kmaherali wrote:
nagib wrote:Well I have to strongly disagree here. The Imam appoints Mukhis AND Mukhianis for a certain term. If Mukhi dies, no Council can remove Mukhiani from her position. Once Mukhiani has been apointed for a term, even Council member has to obey her as she detaines spiritual authority then on behalf of the Imam not on behalf of the Council or the Jamat.

Spiritual authority has preseance over administative authority. Hazar Imam has made clear in his interview with LBC that Council is only a civil body.

Nagib
In Calgary NWJK there was a situation whereby the Chalu Kamadia passed away recently. There was a Talika read out last Friday and a new appointment of Kamadia Saheb was announced in it.

The Kamadiani was replaced by the wife of the new Kamadia Saheb.

Please note CHALU is not a descent word in Urdu. If Mukhi/Kamadia are chalu then jamait will be more chalu.

erumsuleman · Post by **erumsuleman** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:07 am

If i am not wrong the she is not the mukhiani of any mandli. Instead she is the mukhiani of Jamat. Wife of Mukhi Rahim (He died while fixing some electrical appliance)

Am i right Admin??

Mukhi Rahim was indeed a hero amogst our community. I have collected his details in order to write on him in my forth comming publication. Inshallah!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:50 am

The anecdote below is about the power bestowed on Mukhi to perform Mahadan Chhanta.

[20]

Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah‟s second marriage solemnized with an Italian lady Princess Theresa in 1908 in Cairo. She was the mother of Prince Aly Khan, who was born on 13th June, 1910. She expired in Italy in 1926. On that occasion, few Ismaili leaders were present with the Imam during her funeral ceremony. The leaders stood in a row and the Imam told them, “Who is the Mukhi among you?” Hence, Mukhi Naginwala of the Paris Jamatkhana came forward. The Imam asked him to give Madhan Chhantta to the dead body of Princess Theresa. The Mukhi said, “Khudavind! How can I do it in your presence?” The Imam said, “This power I have assigned to the Mukhi. It is my order to give her Chhantta on my behalf.” Thus, Mukhi Naginwala gave Chhantta.

http://ismaili.net/source/jampudipnosultan.pdf

Post by **Admin** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:55 pm

There are ginans on Mukhis with interesting verses:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 94fc8565e7

But also in the other direction in Syed Imam Shah's Ginan "Sutak raakhi gat maanhe aave" http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/3995

Eji Mukhi thai-ne gat maan bese,
sutak nahi ttaale ji;
peli daaj Shaah tene maare,
ane aakhar narge jaave ji - parbhaate tenu 30

Also remember the daily weight on the shoulders of Mukhi/Kamadia, not only to direct the ceremonies and take care of the Jamat but also the BMW (Bayat, Mayat, Wedding)

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:46 pm

Below is an anecdote from Mumtaz Ali's "201 - Sweet Anecdotes of Four Beloved Imams" (page 104 ), which alludes to the authority of Mukhiani in Jamati context. It can be accessed at:

http://ismaili.net/source/books/225anecdotes.pdf

(9) The first marriage of the Hazar Imam performed with Begum Salima on 28th October, 1969. Soon after the marriage, the Imam visited Nairobi with his wife. When both entered Jamatkhana, the Imam specified Begum Salima, “I am going up and then you join me after making visit of the library. When you come upside, you must take off your shoes.”

The Imam came upward, while Begum Salima visited the library at the ground floor with the Mukhiani. When the visit was over, Begum Salima tried to take off her shoes, but the Mukhiani forbade her not to relieve shoes. Both came upside and entered the door. Looking his wife with shoes, the Imam came down from the stage and walked towards his wife and said, "Didn’t I tell you not to come here with shoes?” She said that she was
taking off the shoes, but the Mukhiani forbade her. The Imam looked at the Mukhiani and smiled, “If my Mukhiani has applied her power by allowing you with the shoes, then I have nothing to say anything.”

swamidada_2 · Post by **swamidada_2** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:08 pm

After marrying Begum Salima in 1969, Hazar Imam visited Pakistan with Begum in 1970. During Hyderabad visit Imam came to newly built chief Jamait khana on Prince Ali Khan road for Dedaar and religious ceremonies. At that time Mukhi of chief Jamait khana was Aitamadi Ghullam Hussain.
Mukhi was aged and had back and leg problem resulting difficulty in walking and climbing stairs to second floor of prayer hall. At that time chief Jamait khana had no elevator (lift). Mukhi Saheb received Hazar Imam on ground floor. He was moving slowly, Imam noticed he was limping and asked the reason. At that moment Imam hold hand of Mukhi Saheb and helped him climb stairs about 30/32 steps up. After ceremonies, Imam turned to leadership who was accompanying him (national/regional) and ordered "I want an elevator installed in this JK as soon as possible.
Imam said,"I do not want my senior spiritual children or any physically handicapped murid who come to attend Jamait khan should have any difficulty". In few months an elevator was installed in that jamait khana.

JISS KA REY SAHEB AISA HOWEY
SO DUKHIYA KIYU(N) KAR KAHAVEY