Even explanation of a Farmaan is not allowed?Admin wrote:It has been a policy of this site since 20 years not to allow Farmans to be posted, especially Farmans on Batini matters. No insult is intended. We do not allow anyone to degrade the Prophet (PBUH). I am not sure from where you had this idea. The site is tolerant but not to the point of letting anyone insult our Prophet (PBUH) or our Imams or even the Noorani family. Most of the insult we tolerate are those against Admin.
A Balance of Struggle Between Zahiri & Batini
Which is exactly what I asked shams to do in the very first place.Admin wrote:Explanation of what is said in a general Farman is allowed but not in BK or Mijlas Farman. Those explanations are not for a public board such as these. Remeber Zahir is Zahir and Batin is Batin.
basically what I want to know is if Farmaan truely says "Not to Fast in the month of Ramadan" and "Not to learn or understand Qur'an"... Or it's that some members interpret it differently.
So can you [or anyone] send a private message to me, then?
Your local ITREB office should have this farman - it's authenticated and used not only by Alwaez's but also as a part of ITREB messages to the Jamat.Admin wrote:Ismailis have access to Usul-e-Din Farman. it is a well known Farman read in Jamatkhanas across the world once in a while.
I would not permit it to be posted here. Get it from your ITREB or your Mukhi. The Farman is very clear. But there is a warning in it, as it says that those who are Shariati will never accept and understand His Farmans.
The farman is very clear in Shariat versus Haqiqat and what Shariat entails and what Haqiqat - the Imam leaves no room for interpretation otherwise
Shams
agakhani - No body is perfect. If I don't understand it, I will ask question. Sorry, my habit is not to not accept a Farmaan. I can assure you that I accept all Farameen Mubarak with my heart and soul. If I don't understand the intended meaning of it, I will sure ask question about it. But that doesn't mean I reject it. Please try to understand this.agakhani wrote:Tret,
I have that farman! but If I put here would you believe it? I am afraid to put it here because as per your old habit you will not accept it as an authenticate farman and will find mistakes in it!
You can explain it in your own words, but if it's not allowed to put it in public forum, which I completely understand, then you can send it to my inbox, so only I myself can read it. Thanks.
Ask your local Tariqah Board office to give you access to it.tret wrote:then there shouldn't be any confusion. So why don't you put it in your own words?ShamsB wrote:
The farman is very clear in Shariat versus Haqiqat and what Shariat entails and what Haqiqat - the Imam leaves no room for interpretation otherwise
Shams
Shams
ShamsB wrote:tret wrote:bloguk - All in all, very good analysis and post, couple simple of observations:
About Du'a and Namaz: According to my understanding they have co-existed historically in Ismaili tariqa, and one complement another. I think they should not be used interchangeably. However, I agree with you that the intent of both Du'a and Namaz are one and the same which is prayer/worship and supplication to the Almighty God, but ritually they are different practices. I am not sure if we can equate Du'a and Namaz? Please if you have some more information in this regard, I'd love to learn.
Salat is I think different than Du'a and Namaz. Salat is calling for prayer. I think esoterically it signifies calling mankind to the stright path. Or Da'wa, which is one of the important pillar of Ismaili tariqa.
I agree with you that in different parts of the world, depending on where Jama'at is living, practice rituals, specially Namaz according to their circumstances, as you rightfully gave the example of Afghanistan.
Can you please be more specific and if you could give an example when you say the following?
BTW, I think even in this website, you should be able to find Ismaili Constitution. I like your vision of considering Ismaili Constitution as Farmaan; however, some members of this site may disagree with you. I agree with you on this.Unfortunately DJI/IIS is not releasing the research and has stopped IIS and ITREBS from publishing books on Ismaili rites tariquah and ceremonies, and stopped publishing and giving Farmans to the Jamat. They are refusing to give copies of even the constitution, which itself is a Farman. They are not doing despite Farmans from Hazar Imam. Ismailis need to get and share the research and get them to explain why are they not doing what Imam says even in the mandate of ITREB and IIS
Entirely agree with your points #3 and #4. I would be more curious behind the intention of leaders, as to why????
I would refer both of you to the Usul-e-Deen Farman that should address your points 3 and 4.
Shams
Thanks to a member who sent me the Usul-e-Din farmaan.
To Shams - I still have no idea why you referenced Usul-e-Din farmaan and what's the connection to "Fast in Ramadan" and "Learning & understanding of the Qur'an"?
Read the whole Farman - the Imam refers to "the fast, the prayer and the book".tret wrote:ShamsB wrote:tret wrote:bloguk - All in all, very good analysis and post, couple simple of observations:
About Du'a and Namaz: According to my understanding they have co-existed historically in Ismaili tariqa, and one complement another. I think they should not be used interchangeably. However, I agree with you that the intent of both Du'a and Namaz are one and the same which is prayer/worship and supplication to the Almighty God, but ritually they are different practices. I am not sure if we can equate Du'a and Namaz? Please if you have some more information in this regard, I'd love to learn.
Salat is I think different than Du'a and Namaz. Salat is calling for prayer. I think esoterically it signifies calling mankind to the stright path. Or Da'wa, which is one of the important pillar of Ismaili tariqa.
I agree with you that in different parts of the world, depending on where Jama'at is living, practice rituals, specially Namaz according to their circumstances, as you rightfully gave the example of Afghanistan.
Can you please be more specific and if you could give an example when you say the following?
BTW, I think even in this website, you should be able to find Ismaili Constitution. I like your vision of considering Ismaili Constitution as Farmaan; however, some members of this site may disagree with you. I agree with you on this.
Entirely agree with your points #3 and #4. I would be more curious behind the intention of leaders, as to why????
I would refer both of you to the Usul-e-Deen Farman that should address your points 3 and 4.
Shams
Thanks to a member who sent me the Usul-e-Din farmaan.
To Shams - I still have no idea why you referenced Usul-e-Din farmaan and what's the connection to "Fast in Ramadan" and "Learning & understanding of the Qur'an"?
Shams
You have qualified that Farman which you did not even understand as "Noble" Farman. My question is simple. What would you qualify as "Un-noble" Farman? Do not try to divert the issue and reply to the question. I have had enough patience with you insulting our Imam!zznoor wrote:Noble part refers to spiritual fast part, why would you edit out.
Just to confuse the issue that fast in Ramadan are not required?
Fast in Ramadan are fird in all Muslims and that includes Ismaili Muslims.
Admin
zznoor wrote:Noble part refers to spiritual fast part, why would you edit out.
Just to confuse the issue that fast in Ramadan are not required?
Fast in Ramadan are fird in all Muslims and that includes Ismaili Muslims.
Speech delivered has the same intent for all. It directly dependent on observer's capacity and level of understanding. Farameen of of the Imams always have highest value; it is the observers' capacity that varies. now zz understood this particular Farmaan and called it Nobel. However, all other Farameen are equally Nobel, should one have the level of understanding and capacity. Now if zz thinks other Farameen are not Nobel, then it's the observer's lack of understanding and capacity, not the Farmaan. In other words, Farameen are subjective to observers' level of understanding; however objective in intent and moral behind each Farmaan.
Seems you guys are making big deal for a small word 'NOBLE' used by ZZNoor, If I, or any one else in this forum had used that word for any farmans then it would not have big issue but since ZZNoor used it and admin criticized it! therefore it became big issue for no reason In my opinion she has not said any thing bad about farmans!! at least this time!!, only she used Noble word!! which is nothing wrong in any manner.
agakhani wrote:Seems you guys are making big deal for a small word 'NOBLE' used by ZZNoor, If I, or any one else in this forum had used that word for any farmans then it would not have big issue but since ZZNoor used it and admin criticized it! therefore it became big issue for no reason In my opinion she has not said any thing bad about farmans!! at least this time!!, only she used Noble word!! which is nothing wrong in any manner.
What admin is saying, that she implied that other Farameen are not nobel, but this one is, by not saying it. On the surface there's nothing wrong with what she said, but what she implied.
Again, like I said, it's totally subjective to observer's level of capacity. for example, if one closes her eyes and shout there's no sun, there's no sun; well that doesn't make it true. The sun shall always be there, too bad that she won't be able to see it, while her eyes are closed.
My post was completely edited by Adminzznoor wrote:Very noble Farman
My post was about Farman in Rajkot which you can find it in to to on net. I did not post firman.tret
What admin is saying, that she implied that other Farameen are not nobel, but this one is, by not saying it. On the surface there's nothing wrong with what she said, but what she implied.
Like I said much hay is made out of edited post.
Farman you are looking for can be searched, I found it. It is in "Kalame Imame Mobin Volume 1, page 168"tret wrote:To Admint - You allow members to insult and degrade the Prophet and the Qur'an, and that's okay for you, and not allow to explain -- not quote -- a Farmaan? Those who don't understand, that'd be their lack of understanding, but those who wants to learn, shall try and contemplate. I believe all Ismailis past shariat. But again, it's your site; and you rule.Admin wrote:Ismailis have access to Usul-e-Din Farman. it is a well known Farman read in Jamatkhanas across the world once in a while.
I would not permit it to be posted here. Get it from your ITREB or your Mukhi. The Farman is very clear. But there is a warning in it, as it says that those who are Shariati will never accept and understand His Farmans.