Holy Prophets and Holy Pirs

[shamsu]

Yes when he gives guidance or makes Firmans or gives BOL, he does it as a Pir. Currently HazarImam is both a Peer and an Imam. In history there have been periods when the role was separated like the periods of Pir Sadardeen, Pir Shamsh etc. For further information on this, you may want to read my introduction to ANANT AKHADO in the ginans section.

The Bol is always from the Imam

Firmans are by Pir.

Rarely Imam will make firman and at that time every word of that firman is Bol.

Shams

[kmaherali]

The Bol is always from the Imam

Firmans are by Pir.

Rarely Imam will make firman and at that time every word of that firman is Bol.

Shams

So what was the situation when the Imam's were physically non accessible like during the times of Pir Shamsh, Pir Sadardin. Bol was not given at that time? I have not seen Bol being explicitly mentioned in the ginans. Is "ma na farman ne bap nu bol" from a Ginan?

[shamsu]

Bol is also mentioned as Shabd, Mantra, Naam.

In those mdays of Pir Shams etc. Bol was not routinely given. A person had to do Bandagi for many years and serve 17 years dedicated to the Imam.

Recently we have been given Bol very easily and our ignorance about it is monumental hence we have taken it for granted.

[kmaherali]

Bol is also mentioned as Shabd, Mantra, Naam.

In those mdays of Pir Shams etc. Bol was not routinely given. A person had to do Bandagi for many years and serve 17 years dedicated to the Imam.

Recently we have been given Bol very easily and our ignorance about it is monumental hence we have taken it for granted.

How was the BOL given? Did the qualified ones have to travel to the Imam to get it? It seems to me that either the BOL was not important at that time or the method suggested by the PIR was adequate for enlightenment.

[shamsu]

Imam gives you the Bol during Bandagi.

Sometimes he may send it with a Dai.

Please do not refer to Bol as not important ever again.

The Bol is your Imams Noor given to the fortunate few (from 6 billion)

[_thaillestlunatic_]

so if the BOL is given to non ismailies
can they also see the Noor of Hazrat Ali?

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[kmaherali]

Imam gives you the Bol during Bandagi.

Sometimes he may send it with a Dai.

Please do not refer to Bol as not important ever agaiin.

The Bol is your Imams Noor given to the fortunate few (from 6 billion)

Are these your opinions or have you read them anywhere?

In my opinion BOL is as important as Ginans and as important as Dua. There is nothing so exclusive about the NUR in the BOl. If you are in tune, you can have the same noor in Ginans. To say that BOL is the only way to enlightenment is misleading. We know of the Jamats who have had no Zaheri deedar and have had Batuni deedar. So where is the BOL? In this situation BOL was not a factor.

The above notwithstanding, IF one has taken BOL then it becomes very important.

[shamsu]

In Imam SMS BUK Farmans there is mention of "amae amaro assal swarup aapiye cche"
Meaning "I give you my Original Identity(recognition)" when he gave Ismae-Azam to the Jamat.

There is another similar Farman where he has mentioned "Amaro Noor aapiyae cche" To the best of my recollection.
BUK Farmans of Imam SMS "Khangi Farman" Book.

There is a book by Mowlana Rumi called Marifatna Moti and I believe it is mentioned in there that

"Ae Noor na Noor na Noor nu Noor cche"

Think about what this could mean in the context of our discussion.

Shams

[sscharania]

DEAR BROTHERS & SISTERS

IMAMAT DAY MUBARAK


WHY ALL OF U WASTING YOUR TIME IN THESE TYPE OF QUESTIONS, WHICH PUT A QUESTION MARKS ON OUR IDENTITY. WE R ALL TRUE MUSLIMS, TRUE FOLLOWERS OF MOWLANA HAZAR IMAM. PLEASE DONT SPECULATE OWN THEORIES AND ASSUMED KNOWLEDGE REGARDING OUR FAITH. IT REALLY INJURES OUR IMAGE AS ISMAILI AND MUSLIM ISMAILI. PLEASE ASK YOUR FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES TO PONDER UPON THE FARMANS OF HAZIR IMAMS, BE PUNCTUAL IN JAMATI TRADTIONS, IN JAMATKHANA ATTENDANCE AND IN BAITUL KHAYAL. WE R EATING THE FRUITS, SEEDS OF WHICH WERE SOWN BY OUR FOREFATHERS. WHO WERE TRUE ISMAILIES, THEY WERE KEEPING THEIR LIGHT OF IMAN DESPITE OF MANY WORDLY PROBLEMS AND HAVING NO PHYSICAL DIDAR OF IMAMS. THEY WERE TRUE ISMAILIES, WE ARE NOT. IF WE LOOK AT OUR LIVES, EVEN ONE PERCENT OF OUR JAMAT IS NOT LITERARY MINDED.

MAY MOWLANA HAZAR BLESS US WITH HAQIQI KNOWLEDGE (BATINI) AND HAQIQI IMAN. AMEN

[kmaherali]

DEAR BROTHERS & SISTERS

IMAMAT DAY MUBARAK


WHO WERE TRUE ISMAILIES, THEY WERE KEEPING THEIR LIGHT OF IMAN DESPITE OF MANY WORDLY PROBLEMS AND HAVING NO PHYSICAL DIDAR OF IMAMS. THEY WERE TRUE ISMAILIES, WE ARE NOT. IF WE LOOK AT OUR LIVES, EVEN ONE PERCENT OF OUR JAMAT IS NOT LITERARY MINDED.

MAY MOWLANA HAZAR BLESS US WITH HAQIQI KNOWLEDGE (BATINI) AND HAQIQI IMAN. AMEN

IMAMAT DAY MUBARAK TO ALL

On this happy and auspicious day I think we must ask ourselves what are we trying to achieve through this forum. What is the underlying intent? Are we seeking or promoting wisdom and understanding? If yes then AL-HAMDULILAH, if not then we should rectify ourselves.

The goal of all Ismailis is a life of FARMANBARDAI as exemplified by the lives of true Ismailis that you have alluded to regardless of whether you have BOL or not. Having BOL and practicing it helps towards this goal. One could still attain DEEDAR without BOL through observance of Dasond, Dua and Sirat-al-Mustaqueem.

May we all have the strength to achieve this goal. Ameen.

[aminL]

In response to what _theillestlunatic_ wrote..... Never would a non-ismaili be able to recive the BOL becuase this is only meant for the people who have given Bayat to the Imam of the time.

[_thaillestlunatic_]

YAM _amnL_

so what if a MUSLIM who knows "ya ali", "ya allah", "ya muhammed"
keeps saying it in his/her mind and continually is in state of zikr
and if the Imam wishes, gives he/her the BOL then why can't they experience the noor of Allah??? I never recall a firman when the Imam has said BOL is only for Ismailes only. I could be wrong though

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[kmaherali]

YAM _amnL_

so what if a MUSLIM who knows "ya ali", "ya allah", "ya muhammed"
keeps saying it in his/her mind and continually is in state of zikr
and if the Imam wishes, gives he/her the BOL then why can't they experience the noor of Allah??? I never recall a firman when the Imam has said BOL is only for Ismailes only. I could be wrong though

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YAM,

I have read about many tariqahs outside Ismailism both Islamic and non Islamic and have also read about self realised souls through them. I am convinced that they have attained a high status. For example Hafiz was never in contact with the Imam physically yet SMS has aknowledged him as an elevated soul.

So whoever is determned enough to find the truth, finds it one way or the other. The key is the determination to find it. I am not prepared to accept that the truth is accessible to Ismailis only and only through BOL. Sometimes we take things for granted because we are born into a tariqah and do Bayat to the Mursheed. We have never had to seek one.

However, I have no doubt that our path is the simplest if we take it up seriously.

[_thaillestlunatic_]

our path is the simpliest
we ask for the BOL in bandagi
the mursheed gives it to us even if we haven't been ready to take it
I know of few who have taken the BOL, but have forgotten it. I remember
someone posting that once a man forget his bol and MSMS said
"Is it possible for you to forget your fathers name" I think we take it
very light heartedly in our jamats. We all have to be determined
to be the true momins of the Imam in my opinion. In addition, we have
a living Imam to guide us to the right path, I think we have to stop
taking things light heartedly and follow the firmans.

[kmaherali]

It might be of interest to know that in the old Ghat Paat Dua which was composed by Pir Sadardin, the names of all Pirs were recited. In that list Prophet Muhammad was the first Pir, Hazarat Hassan was the 2nd and Imam SMS was the 49th. The same list is given in Abually Missionaries book, "A brief History of Ismailism".