You all may know about this dispute.
In Ayodhya ,Babri Masjid [mosque made by mughal emperor Babar] was destroyed by hindus. Hindus want to build temple over there as according to them Ram was born at that place and later a temple was also built over there which was destroyed by Babar and he made mosque over that place. Muslims dont want hindus to build temple as there was masjid which is house of Allah so how can they allow idol worshipping over there?
The place is most sacred and holy place for hindus thousands of muslims and hindus in India were killed due to this and this is till today not solved yet. What is your opinion about it?
Babri Masjid Ram Mandir
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star_munir
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Babri Masjid Ram Mandir
Last edited by star_munir on Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ya Ali madad wa assalamu aleikum min Maula Hazir Imam!
It is taught that passions blind people to both truth and civility.
Muslims will maintain that there was no mandir before Babri Masjid, and Hindus will maintain that the Ram Janmabhoomi mandir was destroyed and Babri Masjid erected on its ruins.
Two passions are at play here, passions which animate and drive the antagonistic forces on both sides. These are the passion of religious zeal and the passion of asserting one's faith over another. In the one, one ignores the humanity, claims, and merits of one's opponent; in the other, one believes that one's religion is superior to the other, and will not rest until it has secured victory over it.
From what I have read regarding Ismailism, whereas Islam is the religion revealed and chosen by God, and whereas within Islam the Ismaili tariqah leads one closest to God (not to mention that the claims of the Ismailis are fact instead of opinion), Ismailism also teaches tolerance of diversity and plurality. This would actually throw a large wrench in the Babri Masjid-Ram Mandir issue - one cannot trust one's emotions or insticts; one would need to think, pray, and seek Allah's guidance.
Hazrat Maulana Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (AS) knew that He was the rightful Caliph and Imam of the Muslim ummah. Yet, despite that, he did not openly repudiate the caliphates of Abu Bakr, 'Umar, or 'Uthman. He even agreed to negotiate with his most bitter enemy, whose name I wish not to mention. Imagine! The rightful Caliph and Imam agreed, for the sake of peace and harmony of the ummah, to negotiate with His enemy, and even made a deal with him! (Sadly, the enemy did not keep his part of the deal.) Such a model for all Muslims! May Allah forever shower His peace and blessings on Maula Ali and His blessed descendants!
These days, politicians and religious leaders abuse the Ayodhya issue in stirring up latent tensions between Muslims and Hindus. This will have no resolution, unless Muslims, imitating Hazrat Maulana Imam Ali (AS), agree to negotiate and make a deal with the Hindus. However, extremists on both sides might disrupt any such attempt. (Following Maula Ali's example, it was a Kharijite who took away the Beloved Imam's holy life. This is analogous to any attempt by extremist Muslims to sabotage Muslim-Hindu negotiations, especially since most Muslim extremist movements have a flavor of Kharijism to them.)
I just hope and pray that peace and love will eventually prevail, and that before that the government of India will continue to bar either side from building what they would like, for the sake of communal harmony and stability.
Maula hafiz,
Omayr Niazi
It is taught that passions blind people to both truth and civility.
Muslims will maintain that there was no mandir before Babri Masjid, and Hindus will maintain that the Ram Janmabhoomi mandir was destroyed and Babri Masjid erected on its ruins.
Two passions are at play here, passions which animate and drive the antagonistic forces on both sides. These are the passion of religious zeal and the passion of asserting one's faith over another. In the one, one ignores the humanity, claims, and merits of one's opponent; in the other, one believes that one's religion is superior to the other, and will not rest until it has secured victory over it.
From what I have read regarding Ismailism, whereas Islam is the religion revealed and chosen by God, and whereas within Islam the Ismaili tariqah leads one closest to God (not to mention that the claims of the Ismailis are fact instead of opinion), Ismailism also teaches tolerance of diversity and plurality. This would actually throw a large wrench in the Babri Masjid-Ram Mandir issue - one cannot trust one's emotions or insticts; one would need to think, pray, and seek Allah's guidance.
Hazrat Maulana Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (AS) knew that He was the rightful Caliph and Imam of the Muslim ummah. Yet, despite that, he did not openly repudiate the caliphates of Abu Bakr, 'Umar, or 'Uthman. He even agreed to negotiate with his most bitter enemy, whose name I wish not to mention. Imagine! The rightful Caliph and Imam agreed, for the sake of peace and harmony of the ummah, to negotiate with His enemy, and even made a deal with him! (Sadly, the enemy did not keep his part of the deal.) Such a model for all Muslims! May Allah forever shower His peace and blessings on Maula Ali and His blessed descendants!
These days, politicians and religious leaders abuse the Ayodhya issue in stirring up latent tensions between Muslims and Hindus. This will have no resolution, unless Muslims, imitating Hazrat Maulana Imam Ali (AS), agree to negotiate and make a deal with the Hindus. However, extremists on both sides might disrupt any such attempt. (Following Maula Ali's example, it was a Kharijite who took away the Beloved Imam's holy life. This is analogous to any attempt by extremist Muslims to sabotage Muslim-Hindu negotiations, especially since most Muslim extremist movements have a flavor of Kharijism to them.)
I just hope and pray that peace and love will eventually prevail, and that before that the government of India will continue to bar either side from building what they would like, for the sake of communal harmony and stability.
Maula hafiz,
Omayr Niazi
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star_munir
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Ayodhya mandir is very important for hindus as it is not just an ordinary temple but also birth place of Ram therefore a very holy place for hindus otherwise there are many temples destroyed by muslims and now mosques are at the same places where once there were temples.
For example Mehmood Ghaznavi destroyed temple of Somnath and got lot of money from there and a mosque was made by him from the money he got from temple. He attacked India 17 times and was enemy of Ismailis.
According to a book Tarikh ka safar by Zulfiqar Arshad Gillani
In 1194 Qutubuddin Aibak desroyed more than 1000 temples.
In Banaras there was a temple Jivtarlanga Vishwanath or Golden temple which was rebuilt in 1776 at some other place. The temple was destroyed by muslims and mosque was built at there which is still there and its name is Gyan vapi masjid There are many such temples which had been converted into mosques like the Bhoja Shala Mosque, the Gyan Vyapi Mosque, the Krishna Janmabhoomi Idgah, apart from the now liberated Ram Janmabhoomi at Ayodhya (on whose foundation the Babri Masjid was erected). There is a well near this mosque which is holy for hindus asa this well was made by Shiv .
Similarly one of the ancient temple in Kashi , Bandu Madhu was destroyed and now there is Alamgir masjid over there. Holy and ancient temples in Dwarka were destroyed by muslim kings. Present Jagat mandir was rebuilt in 1730.
Regarding Babri Masjid the fact of the destruction of this temple and the erection of a mosque in its place is also mentioned in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
The Muslim Swordsmen also slaughtered a lot of Hindus civilians away from the battlefieldThey abducted countless Hindu women and held them as concubines in Harem.
Nalanda University burnt down by the Muslim general Bakhtiyar Khilji in the year 1194 C.E. The Nalanda University was another Hindu institution that faced the brunt of Muslim brutality three hundred years before the destruction of the Ram Temple at Ayodhya.
The total of such temples that were converted into Mosques during the eleven centuries of Muslim Occupation of various parts of India, runs to 3000.In Varanasi, Aurangzeb, the last significant emperor in the same family chain converted half of the famous Vishwanath temple into a mosque. In Mathura, the birth place of Lord Krishna, similar conversion has taken place.
The first thought that comes to my mind is of the authencity of the Hindu claim. Hindus believe that Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya on this site in our discussion. Just as Christians believe that Lord Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and Hazrat Muhammad [PBUH] was born in the holy city of Islam - Mecca. The significance of these birth places or of Jerusalem in the mind of Jews, Christians, and Muslims cannot be questioned nor proven absolutely by any scientific or logical evidence. Therefore, the first conclusion should be made that we must respect each other's belief.
Muslims extremist says that this is all a political game. There was never mandir over there .Babar was not a religious extremist therefore he can not destroy temple as he even used to drink wine and drinking is forbidden in Islam.
I agree with ONiazi what he said about this issue and its my wish that other members also share their point of view.
For example Mehmood Ghaznavi destroyed temple of Somnath and got lot of money from there and a mosque was made by him from the money he got from temple. He attacked India 17 times and was enemy of Ismailis.
According to a book Tarikh ka safar by Zulfiqar Arshad Gillani
In 1194 Qutubuddin Aibak desroyed more than 1000 temples.
In Banaras there was a temple Jivtarlanga Vishwanath or Golden temple which was rebuilt in 1776 at some other place. The temple was destroyed by muslims and mosque was built at there which is still there and its name is Gyan vapi masjid There are many such temples which had been converted into mosques like the Bhoja Shala Mosque, the Gyan Vyapi Mosque, the Krishna Janmabhoomi Idgah, apart from the now liberated Ram Janmabhoomi at Ayodhya (on whose foundation the Babri Masjid was erected). There is a well near this mosque which is holy for hindus asa this well was made by Shiv .
Similarly one of the ancient temple in Kashi , Bandu Madhu was destroyed and now there is Alamgir masjid over there. Holy and ancient temples in Dwarka were destroyed by muslim kings. Present Jagat mandir was rebuilt in 1730.
Regarding Babri Masjid the fact of the destruction of this temple and the erection of a mosque in its place is also mentioned in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
The Muslim Swordsmen also slaughtered a lot of Hindus civilians away from the battlefieldThey abducted countless Hindu women and held them as concubines in Harem.
Nalanda University burnt down by the Muslim general Bakhtiyar Khilji in the year 1194 C.E. The Nalanda University was another Hindu institution that faced the brunt of Muslim brutality three hundred years before the destruction of the Ram Temple at Ayodhya.
The total of such temples that were converted into Mosques during the eleven centuries of Muslim Occupation of various parts of India, runs to 3000.In Varanasi, Aurangzeb, the last significant emperor in the same family chain converted half of the famous Vishwanath temple into a mosque. In Mathura, the birth place of Lord Krishna, similar conversion has taken place.
The first thought that comes to my mind is of the authencity of the Hindu claim. Hindus believe that Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya on this site in our discussion. Just as Christians believe that Lord Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and Hazrat Muhammad [PBUH] was born in the holy city of Islam - Mecca. The significance of these birth places or of Jerusalem in the mind of Jews, Christians, and Muslims cannot be questioned nor proven absolutely by any scientific or logical evidence. Therefore, the first conclusion should be made that we must respect each other's belief.
Muslims extremist says that this is all a political game. There was never mandir over there .Babar was not a religious extremist therefore he can not destroy temple as he even used to drink wine and drinking is forbidden in Islam.
I agree with ONiazi what he said about this issue and its my wish that other members also share their point of view.
Last edited by star_munir on Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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star_munir
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They claim that First Mughal Emperor Babur destroyed Babri Masjid. Though there is not such evidence of him doing that in history
Last edited by star_munir on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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star_munir
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star_munir
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According to Indian Court Report ..
No Evidence has been found yet which proves that der was any temple at that place ..
Now about Ram Janmabhoomi .. Hindus have built more than 10 temples in that region thinking that Ram might have born here ..
I don't know much about this issue but I think it's a political issue ..
No Evidence has been found yet which proves that der was any temple at that place ..
Now about Ram Janmabhoomi .. Hindus have built more than 10 temples in that region thinking that Ram might have born here ..
I don't know much about this issue but I think it's a political issue ..
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star_munir
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As you wrote:
Hindus have built more than 10 temples in that region thinking that Ram might have born here
I never came to read it but can you kindly give reference.
Indian Court or Government is so confused that it can not give a decession in favour of Hindus or Muslims. If hindus are allowed to built temple than other countries will start calling that India is in no sesnce secular country and always support hindus and if the case goes in favour of Muslims than hindus will not accept and riots will be in entire country. Due to this issue countless people are killed in the name of religion although the message of any religion is of Peace and love rather than hate and terrorism.
So anyways what could be the best possible solution according to you as like Kashmir issue this issue has also not any solution.
Hindus have built more than 10 temples in that region thinking that Ram might have born here
I never came to read it but can you kindly give reference.
Indian Court or Government is so confused that it can not give a decession in favour of Hindus or Muslims. If hindus are allowed to built temple than other countries will start calling that India is in no sesnce secular country and always support hindus and if the case goes in favour of Muslims than hindus will not accept and riots will be in entire country. Due to this issue countless people are killed in the name of religion although the message of any religion is of Peace and love rather than hate and terrorism.
So anyways what could be the best possible solution according to you as like Kashmir issue this issue has also not any solution.
Well, there seems to some indication that the Hindus may have been right.
From this website:
So, it indeed is political, but not only on the side of Hindus.
Allah hafiz,
ON
From this website:
Furthermore, according to the BBC,According to a controversial study conducted by the Archaeological Survey of India in 2003, the evidence indicates that a Hindu temple did exist at the site prior to the construction of the mosque.
But the key issue is not that the Hindus are right or that the Muslims are right, it's about putting aside irrelevant religious issues in interest of communal harmony. This issue is in no way crucial to the survival, success, or fundamental principles of either Hinduism or Islam. (Which, of course, is demonstrated by the fact that few countries care much about this issue. As a matter of fact, there's an anecdote that officials in the UAE deported Pakistanis who marched in protest when Babri Masjid was razed.)And last year Indian archaeologists said they found the remains of a structure similar to a Hindu temple under the ruins of an ancient temple, sparking off a fresh legal battle between Hindus and Muslims.
So, it indeed is political, but not only on the side of Hindus.
Allah hafiz,
ON
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star_munir
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From Zee News
Advani in image makeover mode; regrets Babri demolition
Islamabad, May 31: Seeking to shed his image as a "hawk" responsible for the demolition of the Babri mosque and scuttling the Agra peace talks, BJP president and leader of opposition L K Advani today described the December 6, 1992 Ayodhya incident as the "saddest" of his life, asserting that his "image and real persona" were not "very identical."
Recalling the recent interactions of seven BJP MPs during a conference of South Asian parliamentarians organised by South Asian Free Media Association (SAFMA), Advani told reporters here that it was conveyed to him that people were excited about his impending visit to Pakistan.
"I told them that the eagerness and excitement was to see whether I really have horns," he said evoking laughter, while answering questions from the Pakistani media about his as well as BJP's "hawkish" image.
The BJP chief termed as "scurrilous charge" the allegation that he conspired to assassinate the father of Pakistani nation Muhammad Ali Jinnah, before his migration to India, related to which an fir was purportedly registered against him.
"I do not think I need to comment. It is totally baseless. It is in a way a scurrilous charge," he said.
Asked about demolition of the disputed structure at Ayodhya, he said, "it was saddest day of my life."
In a gesture aimed at building bridges, Advani also visited the largest mosque in Islamic world, the picturesque Faisal mosque in Islamabad which was built by the Saudi Royal family.
Advani, accompanied by Indian High Commissioner Shiavshankar Menon, went round the mosque for over 15 minutes appreciating the unique architecture and its significance.
During his remarks to reporters, Advani also disagreed with the charge that he had been "spewing venom" against Pakistan and has now shifted his stand.
"It has been my conviction that it was in the best interest of India and Pakistan that peace and normalcy are established between the two countries. As Vajpayee had said we can change our history but we cannot change our geography."
Advani also dismissed the charge that BJP carried propaganda literature against Pakistan.
"We may have strong statements against terrorism but not against Pakistan. The entire civilised world is against terrorism. Pakistan is also part of world coalition against terrorism," he said.
On his stereotype image as a Muslim baiter as also on the issues of Gujarat riots and Babri demolition, he said, "every person in public life and politics has an image. In my case, the image and the real persona are not very identical."
Asked whether both India and Pakistan have been pursuing wrong paths over the past five decades, he said it depends on perspectives.
"If any two countries (who) have been adopting the path of confrontation adopt a path of cooperation, it is welcome," he said.
Advani said apart from serving the political case of bringing about peace, harmony and normalcy, his visit will be a "nostalgic, sentimental trip to my place of birth, Karachi."
Later in the night, Pakistan Foreign Minister Khurishid M Kasuri hosted a dinner in honour of Advani.
Bureau Report
Advani in image makeover mode; regrets Babri demolition
Islamabad, May 31: Seeking to shed his image as a "hawk" responsible for the demolition of the Babri mosque and scuttling the Agra peace talks, BJP president and leader of opposition L K Advani today described the December 6, 1992 Ayodhya incident as the "saddest" of his life, asserting that his "image and real persona" were not "very identical."
Recalling the recent interactions of seven BJP MPs during a conference of South Asian parliamentarians organised by South Asian Free Media Association (SAFMA), Advani told reporters here that it was conveyed to him that people were excited about his impending visit to Pakistan.
"I told them that the eagerness and excitement was to see whether I really have horns," he said evoking laughter, while answering questions from the Pakistani media about his as well as BJP's "hawkish" image.
The BJP chief termed as "scurrilous charge" the allegation that he conspired to assassinate the father of Pakistani nation Muhammad Ali Jinnah, before his migration to India, related to which an fir was purportedly registered against him.
"I do not think I need to comment. It is totally baseless. It is in a way a scurrilous charge," he said.
Asked about demolition of the disputed structure at Ayodhya, he said, "it was saddest day of my life."
In a gesture aimed at building bridges, Advani also visited the largest mosque in Islamic world, the picturesque Faisal mosque in Islamabad which was built by the Saudi Royal family.
Advani, accompanied by Indian High Commissioner Shiavshankar Menon, went round the mosque for over 15 minutes appreciating the unique architecture and its significance.
During his remarks to reporters, Advani also disagreed with the charge that he had been "spewing venom" against Pakistan and has now shifted his stand.
"It has been my conviction that it was in the best interest of India and Pakistan that peace and normalcy are established between the two countries. As Vajpayee had said we can change our history but we cannot change our geography."
Advani also dismissed the charge that BJP carried propaganda literature against Pakistan.
"We may have strong statements against terrorism but not against Pakistan. The entire civilised world is against terrorism. Pakistan is also part of world coalition against terrorism," he said.
On his stereotype image as a Muslim baiter as also on the issues of Gujarat riots and Babri demolition, he said, "every person in public life and politics has an image. In my case, the image and the real persona are not very identical."
Asked whether both India and Pakistan have been pursuing wrong paths over the past five decades, he said it depends on perspectives.
"If any two countries (who) have been adopting the path of confrontation adopt a path of cooperation, it is welcome," he said.
Advani said apart from serving the political case of bringing about peace, harmony and normalcy, his visit will be a "nostalgic, sentimental trip to my place of birth, Karachi."
Later in the night, Pakistan Foreign Minister Khurishid M Kasuri hosted a dinner in honour of Advani.
Bureau Report
sorry for bumping an old topic.........
but see here in india....ppl who takes this issue wants to take out political mileage thats it...
btw..its simple.....trash the whole place...build hospital,skool ora garden...which makes ram,allah proud.......the solution is simple.......
but once its made...bjp will have no issue...if congress makes this and than again gets busy in corruption....wont get muslim sympathy vote......and also minority ppl will die(bsp,samajwadi party etc)........
india need a dictator rule for that too happen........or mahatma needs to reborn...but i m sure.....though british never ared...but our present generation will kill him once they knows wht he is goin to do...even if they r frm congress
but see here in india....ppl who takes this issue wants to take out political mileage thats it...
btw..its simple.....trash the whole place...build hospital,skool ora garden...which makes ram,allah proud.......the solution is simple.......
but once its made...bjp will have no issue...if congress makes this and than again gets busy in corruption....wont get muslim sympathy vote......and also minority ppl will die(bsp,samajwadi party etc)........
india need a dictator rule for that too happen........or mahatma needs to reborn...but i m sure.....though british never ared...but our present generation will kill him once they knows wht he is goin to do...even if they r frm congress