Alif, Lam Mim

[ismaili103]

Alwaiz Abu Ali has written in his book "Ismaili Tariqah";

THE IMAM IS HUJJATULLAH (THE PROOF OF GOD) AND THE KHALIFATULLAH (THE VICEREGENT OF GOD); THE PIR IS HUJJATUL IMAM AND KHALIFATUR RASUL. THE PIR IS LINK BETWEEN THE JAMAIT AND THE IMAM. (Page # 132)

He is not wrong.

[swamidada]

Alwaiz Abu Ali has written in his book "Ismaili Tariqah";

THE IMAM IS HUJJATULLAH (THE PROOF OF GOD) AND THE KHALIFATULLAH (THE VICEREGENT OF GOD); THE PIR IS HUJJATUL IMAM AND KHALIFATUR RASUL. THE PIR IS LINK BETWEEN THE JAMAIT AND THE IMAM. (Page # 132)

He is not wrong.

So where you will fit Baab and Abwaab?

[swamidada]

In Fatimid era the basic form of the Ismaili da‘wah hierarchy was as follows:
1. Imam
2. Bab (Gate)
3. Hujjah (Proof)
4. Da‘i (Summoner)
5. Ma’dhun Akbar (Senior Teacher)
6. Ma’dhun Asghar (Junior Teacher)
7. Mustajib (Respondent or Initiate)"

In post Alamout period the hierarchy of da'wah was changed as follow:
1. 'Aql e kul
2. Nafs e kul
3. Natiq
4. Asas
5. Imam
6. Baab
7. Hujjah
8. Da'i e Mutlaq
9. Da'i e Makfuf
10. Maazun e Akbar
11. Maazun e Asghar
12. Mustajeeb

In subcontinent GINANIC era, there is no mention of above da'wah hierarchies in Ginans.

In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion.

I believe your interpretation is that Spiritual hierarchy and hierarchy in the World of Faith are separate from each other while my interpretation is that hierarchy in the world of faith is the manifestation of the spiritual hierarchy, and if later is the case then in every era, the manifestation of that hierarchy must have present in the world all the time.

Our dais and Hujjahs have interpreted Imam as Sun, Bab as Moon and ranks below them as Stars. At night when Sun is not shining, Moon and Stars are visible but in noon when Sun is at his peak intensity, neither Moon nor Stars are visible. The reason why Imam took the authority of Piratan with himself is because Noon (Qiyammah) is near.

Quran mentions that there are signs for everyone in creation of the Universe, changing of nigh and day etc. Not to mention, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah A.S has mentioned in his memoirs that this Universe is the Ayats for Allah. Ayat literally means Signs.

I would not use the word conversion, rather I will use the word Dawah and Hazir Imam A.S has declared all of us his Dai's. It's now our responsibility to Dawah of Ismailism through our actions so that people from other community take interest in our deen and our esoteric interpretations of Islam.

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

[swamidada]

Again, I have clearly mentioned that we can ASSUME. You are free to assume who could be the female Bab of the Hazir Imam.

In discussion of HAQA'IQ there is no room for assumption or suppose. Who is male or female Baab in time of Shah Karim?

There is a room for assumption in esoteric deen, assumptions is a sign of using your intellect and our religion is a religion of intellect. You hear/read then you assume, then you interpret and finally you come to Haqaiq.

I heard about a politician, he is a good man. I read about him, he is a nice guy. I assumed he will be good for nation. But haqaiq proved he is a corrupt and a thug!!! Assumption is not always correct. Religious/spiritual matters are very sensitive. At present we do not have any Baabs. The seat is vacant if there is any.

[swamidada]

You wrote," Pir Sabz Ali could be Hujjah". Did Imam of the time declared Sabz Ali Saheb as a Hujjah, we have no proof. If Subz Ali was Hujjah then what about Wazir Ismail Gangji?

Imam don't has to declare who is his Bab or Hujjah currently, sometimes we have to use our intellect and there is no harm in it. Quran, Ginans and Farman are the example of how we have to use our intellect to interpret it.

It's my interpretation that if Imam declared Sabz Ali as Pir Sabz Ali after his death then it's a "ISHARAH" from Imam that his soul merged with the light of Muhammad.

Similarly, In one of the farman, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah A.S has mentioned that Syedna Pir Nasir Khusrow reached "Asal Ma Wasil", we all know he was a Hujjah in his life time but this farman from Imam A.S is a sign that after his death, his soul merged with the Light of Muhammad.

Sum up of your post is, assume, use intellect, isharah, it is a sign.....
Pir, Hujjah, Baab, are sensitive topics. Until Imam does not declare we have no right to assume A or B or C carries the post. You can say A is Baab, I say in my opinion C is Baab, some one say B is Baab, WHO will decide? As Imam declares Pir same way he will declare about Baab (if post exists).

You wrote; "Asal ma wasil and his soul merged with the light of Muhammad".
JEEVUN NA DAATAR ALI CHHEY, WHO IS UNIVERSAL SOUL, therefore the soul will merge with Universal Soul.

[ismaili103]

Alwaiz Abu Ali has written in his book "Ismaili Tariqah";

THE IMAM IS HUJJATULLAH (THE PROOF OF GOD) AND THE KHALIFATULLAH (THE VICEREGENT OF GOD); THE PIR IS HUJJATUL IMAM AND KHALIFATUR RASUL. THE PIR IS LINK BETWEEN THE JAMAIT AND THE IMAM. (Page # 132)

He is not wrong.

So where you will fit Baab and Abwaab?

Indeed Imam is the Proof of God, his physical presence in the world since the beginning is the proof that God exist and manifest himself in the Imam. Pir/Bab is indeed Proof of Imam, without Pir you cannot attain Imam. “Nabi Mohammad Bujo to tame pamsho Imam”.

Imam is the Manifestation of Divine Essence and Pir is the Manifestation of Noor-e-Mohammad.

[ismaili103]

In Fatimid era the basic form of the Ismaili da‘wah hierarchy was as follows:
1. Imam
2. Bab (Gate)
3. Hujjah (Proof)
4. Da‘i (Summoner)
5. Ma’dhun Akbar (Senior Teacher)
6. Ma’dhun Asghar (Junior Teacher)
7. Mustajib (Respondent or Initiate)"

In post Alamout period the hierarchy of da'wah was changed as follow:
1. 'Aql e kul
2. Nafs e kul
3. Natiq
4. Asas
5. Imam
6. Baab
7. Hujjah
8. Da'i e Mutlaq
9. Da'i e Makfuf
10. Maazun e Akbar
11. Maazun e Asghar
12. Mustajeeb

In subcontinent GINANIC era, there is no mention of above da'wah hierarchies in Ginans.

In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion.

I believe your interpretation is that Spiritual hierarchy and hierarchy in the World of Faith are separate from each other while my interpretation is that hierarchy in the world of faith is the manifestation of the spiritual hierarchy, and if later is the case then in every era, the manifestation of that hierarchy must have present in the world all the time.

Our dais and Hujjahs have interpreted Imam as Sun, Bab as Moon and ranks below them as Stars. At night when Sun is not shining, Moon and Stars are visible but in noon when Sun is at his peak intensity, neither Moon nor Stars are visible. The reason why Imam took the authority of Piratan with himself is because Noon (Qiyammah) is near.

Quran mentions that there are signs for everyone in creation of the Universe, changing of nigh and day etc. Not to mention, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah A.S has mentioned in his memoirs that this Universe is the Ayats for Allah. Ayat literally means Signs.

I would not use the word conversion, rather I will use the word Dawah and Hazir Imam A.S has declared all of us his Dai's. It's now our responsibility to Dawah of Ismailism through our actions so that people from other community take interest in our deen and our esoteric interpretations of Islam.

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

As I said earlier, you are free with your interpretations and I am free with mine. And I stand by my interpretation that in every era this hierarchy exists (Pre and Post Ali). Pir Sadardin is called Baargur (Guru of Twelve), Jesus had twelve disciples.

Secondly, I don’t know from where you are getting this number of thousands of Ismails, it’s a worldwide issue with every religion in every country, people leave their faith, some become atheist and some outsiders join their faith.

I try my best in my individual capacity to educate those Ismailis who wants to know more about batiniyat of our faith. This forum is one of the examples, people come here, read and leave. If 10 visit this forum and 1 leave with the understanding of esoterics of our faith then I am happy.

Furthermore, I think, it’s not the responsibility of IIS but ITREB of its repetitive countries. IIS has published some very good books, those books are available online as well as in publications dept. of JKs and JKs library, those who have interest in it will definitely read it, those who don’t have any interest in reading, then it’s the responsibility of ITREB to arrange waez and presentations in JKs. Yesterday and on friday, Video waez of Kamaluddin was played in JKs across Karachi (Not sure about all of Pakistan). The topic was on wasila and shafaat, why we take help from Hazir Imam etc.

Since you have asked me, I also want to ask you. What you do to counter outsiders propaganda on Imam being the Dai of Imam?

Bolna Aasan hai

[ismaili103]

In discussion of HAQA'IQ there is no room for assumption or suppose. Who is male or female Baab in time of Shah Karim?

There is a room for assumption in esoteric deen, assumptions is a sign of using your intellect and our religion is a religion of intellect. You hear/read then you assume, then you interpret and finally you come to Haqaiq.

I heard about a politician, he is a good man. I read about him, he is a nice guy. I assumed he will be good for nation. But haqaiq proved he is a corrupt and a thug!!! Assumption is not always correct. Religious/spiritual matters are very sensitive. At present we do not have any Baabs. The seat is vacant if there is any.

You have answered it yourself, I have my interpretations and I will reach to haqaiq one day with the blessings of Imam. You are right, haqaiq can be different from your interpretations, I will be happy once I reach haqaiq whether it’s similar to my interpretation or different, I will be happy that I reached haqaiq.

Till then, I am happy that I am using my intellect and interpreting this using my intellect (yes the same intellect which is called Nabi-e-Batuni by Qazi Noman). I am happy that my Nabi-e-Batuni is helping me to understand the realities of my deen instead of just sitting idol and waiting for some kind of external force to come and interpret my deen to me.

[ismaili103]

Imam don't has to declare who is his Bab or Hujjah currently, sometimes we have to use our intellect and there is no harm in it. Quran, Ginans and Farman are the example of how we have to use our intellect to interpret it.

It's my interpretation that if Imam declared Sabz Ali as Pir Sabz Ali after his death then it's a "ISHARAH" from Imam that his soul merged with the light of Muhammad.

Similarly, In one of the farman, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah A.S has mentioned that Syedna Pir Nasir Khusrow reached "Asal Ma Wasil", we all know he was a Hujjah in his life time but this farman from Imam A.S is a sign that after his death, his soul merged with the Light of Muhammad.

Sum up of your post is, assume, use intellect, isharah, it is a sign.....
Pir, Hujjah, Baab, are sensitive topics. Until Imam does not declare we have no right to assume A or B or C carries the post. You can say A is Baab, I say in my opinion C is Baab, some one say B is Baab, WHO will decide? As Imam declares Pir same way he will declare about Baab (if post exists).

You wrote; "Asal ma wasil and his soul merged with the light of Muhammad".
JEEVUN NA DAATAR ALI CHHEY, WHO IS UNIVERSAL SOUL, therefore the soul will merge with Universal Soul.

I have answered it in last few posts.

Regarding your second question, I have answered it in previous posts, for me Ali and Mohammed are One, same Noor not two different Noor.

[swamidada]

He is not wrong.

So where you will fit Baab and Abwaab?

Indeed Imam is the Proof of God, his physical presence in the world since the beginning is the proof that God exist and manifest himself in the Imam. Pir/Bab is indeed Proof of Imam, without Pir you cannot attain Imam. “Nabi Mohammad Bujo to tame pamsho Imam”.

Did Imam ever mention or talk about Baab? Is there any mention of Baabs in Ginans? Increase my knowledge.
You wrote; Pir/Baab is indeed proof of Imam!! No, I would say Pir is because of Imam. Imam nominates Pir (as in past).

[swamidada]

Sum up of your post is, assume, use intellect, isharah, it is a sign.....
Pir, Hujjah, Baab, are sensitive topics. Until Imam does not declare we have no right to assume A or B or C carries the post. You can say A is Baab, I say in my opinion C is Baab, some one say B is Baab, WHO will decide? As Imam declares Pir same way he will declare about Baab (if post exists).

You wrote; "Asal ma wasil and his soul merged with the light of Muhammad".
JEEVUN NA DAATAR ALI CHHEY, WHO IS UNIVERSAL SOUL, therefore the soul will merge with Universal Soul.[/quote

Regarding your second question, I have answered it in previous posts, for me Ali and Mohammed are One, same Noor not two different Noor.

Twice you mentioned in your posts 'merged with light of Muhammad" neglecting Noor e Ali. By the way who was created first, Universal Intellect or Universal soul.

[swamidada]

There is a room for assumption in esoteric deen, assumptions is a sign of using your intellect and our religion is a religion of intellect. You hear/read then you assume, then you interpret and finally you come to Haqaiq.

I heard about a politician, he is a good man. I read about him, he is a nice guy. I assumed he will be good for nation. But haqaiq proved he is a corrupt and a thug!!! Assumption is not always correct. Religious/spiritual matters are very sensitive. At present we do not have any Baabs. The seat is vacant if there is any.

You have answered it yourself, I have my interpretations and I will reach to haqaiq one day with the blessings of Imam. You are right, haqaiq can be different from your interpretations, I will be happy once I reach haqaiq whether it’s similar to my interpretation or different, I will be happy that I reached haqaiq.

I pray for your Haqa'iq about Baab. Hopefully to listen from you on this topic in future.

[swamidada]

I believe your interpretation is that Spiritual hierarchy and hierarchy in the World of Faith are separate from each other while my interpretation is that hierarchy in the world of faith is the manifestation of the spiritual hierarchy, and if later is the case then in every era, the manifestation of that hierarchy must have present in the world all the time.

Our dais and Hujjahs have interpreted Imam as Sun, Bab as Moon and ranks below them as Stars. At night when Sun is not shining, Moon and Stars are visible but in noon when Sun is at his peak intensity, neither Moon nor Stars are visible. The reason why Imam took the authority of Piratan with himself is because Noon (Qiyammah) is near.

Quran mentions that there are signs for everyone in creation of the Universe, changing of nigh and day etc. Not to mention, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah A.S has mentioned in his memoirs that this Universe is the Ayats for Allah. Ayat literally means Signs.

I would not use the word conversion, rather I will use the word Dawah and Hazir Imam A.S has declared all of us his Dai's. It's now our responsibility to Dawah of Ismailism through our actions so that people from other community take interest in our deen and our esoteric interpretations of Islam.

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

As I said earlier, you are free with your interpretations and I am free with mine. And I stand by my interpretation that in every era this hierarchy exists (Pre and Post Ali). Pir Sadardin is called Baargur (Guru of Twelve), Jesus had twelve disciples. /quote]

What Jesus's 12 disciples have to do with Baabs. Can you mention names of Pir Sadruddin's 12 disciples, again were they Baabs? The system of da'wa hierarchy was devised for propagation of Ismailism in Fatimid era (7) and in post Almout (12). In modern Ismaili era it is omitted as there is no Ismaili propagation, hence no Baabs.

[swamidada]

I believe your interpretation is that Spiritual hierarchy and hierarchy in the World of Faith are separate from each other while my interpretation is that hierarchy in the world of faith is the manifestation of the spiritual hierarchy, and if later is the case then in every era, the manifestation of that hierarchy must have present in the world all the time.

Our dais and Hujjahs have interpreted Imam as Sun, Bab as Moon and ranks below them as Stars. At night when Sun is not shining, Moon and Stars are visible but in noon when Sun is at his peak intensity, neither Moon nor Stars are visible. The reason why Imam took the authority of Piratan with himself is because Noon (Qiyammah) is near.

Quran mentions that there are signs for everyone in creation of the Universe, changing of nigh and day etc. Not to mention, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah A.S has mentioned in his memoirs that this Universe is the Ayats for Allah. Ayat literally means Signs.

I would not use the word conversion, rather I will use the word Dawah and Hazir Imam A.S has declared all of us his Dai's. It's now our responsibility to Dawah of Ismailism through our actions so that people from other community take interest in our deen and our esoteric interpretations of Islam.

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

Secondly, I don’t know from where you are getting this number of thousands of Ismails, it’s a worldwide issue with every religion in every country, people leave their faith, some become atheist and some outsiders join their faith.

AAEIN NINDER MEIN AAYO. Wake up from sleep. It is not worldwide issue. It is pure Ismaili issue. Yes thousands of teenagers, youth, and families have quit Ismailis in Pakistan, India, USA, England and in Europe. Watch U TUBE and social media. What EX ISMAILIS and non Ismailis are writing FILTH, derogatory remarks, and doctored and edited photos of Imam and his family. Don't close your eye like pigeon when it sees cat coming. This DHAMAAL is going on U TUBE for past few years and you are still unaware of it? Go and answer them. It is easy on this blog to come and show your intellect and interpretation. A man from Sydney, a woman from London, a man from Canada other from Atlanta and many non Ismails are writing against our Tariqah, if you have knowledge debate with them
You wrote 'bolna aasan hai',Yes I am on my own engaging with them, explaining them, arguing with them with my other name. What you and others like you still waiting for 'BOLO TA KE PACHANEY JAO'.
For this EXODUS IIS AND ITREB WORLD WIDE ARE RESPONSIBLE.

[swamidada]

I believe your interpretation is that Spiritual hierarchy and hierarchy in the World of Faith are separate from each other while my interpretation is that hierarchy in the world of faith is the manifestation of the spiritual hierarchy, and if later is the case then in every era, the manifestation of that hierarchy must have present in the world all the time.

Our dais and Hujjahs have interpreted Imam as Sun, Bab as Moon and ranks below them as Stars. At night when Sun is not shining, Moon and Stars are visible but in noon when Sun is at his peak intensity, neither Moon nor Stars are visible. The reason why Imam took the authority of Piratan with himself is because Noon (Qiyammah) is near.

Quran mentions that there are signs for everyone in creation of the Universe, changing of nigh and day etc. Not to mention, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah A.S has mentioned in his memoirs that this Universe is the Ayats for Allah. Ayat literally means Signs.

I would not use the word conversion, rather I will use the word Dawah and Hazir Imam A.S has declared all of us his Dai's. It's now our responsibility to Dawah of Ismailism through our actions so that people from other community take interest in our deen and our esoteric interpretations of Islam.

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

Furthermore, I think, it’s not the responsibility of IIS but ITREB of its repetitive countries. IIS has published some very good books, those books are available online as well as in publications dept. of JKs and JKs library, those who have interest in it will definitely read it, those who don’t have any interest in reading, then it’s the responsibility of ITREB to arrange waez and presentations in JKs. Yesterday and on friday, Video waez of Kamaluddin was played in JKs across Karachi (Not sure about all of Pakistan). The topic was on wasila and shafaat, why we take help from Hazir Imam etc.

We are discussing BAAB. Did AlWaiz Saheb explained theory of Baab. I have been following AlWaiz's lectures, never heard him talking about Baab, if Baab's subject is so important he should have shed light on it on orders of ITREB.
Regarding IIS IMAM is spending millions of dollars on this institute. What is out come. some edited translations, compilations, repetition of same subjects. In past 45 years did IIS produced any tall figure like Nasir Khusraw, Al Kirmani, Qazi Noaman, Mueed Shirazi, Sijistani and others, IIS scholars keep translating their books. Did they come up with some deep philosophy. Answer is no.

[ismaili103]

So where you will fit Baab and Abwaab?

Indeed Imam is the Proof of God, his physical presence in the world since the beginning is the proof that God exist and manifest himself in the Imam. Pir/Bab is indeed Proof of Imam, without Pir you cannot attain Imam. “Nabi Mohammad Bujo to tame pamsho Imam”.

Did Imam ever mention or talk about Baab? Is there any mention of Baabs in Ginans? Increase my knowledge.
You wrote; Pir/Baab is indeed proof of Imam!! No, I would say Pir is because of Imam. Imam nominates Pir (as in past).

No, Ginans do not mention anything about these spiritual hierarchy, at least in my knowledge, though those pre and post fatimid ideas of Divine Essence, Universal Intellect and Universal Soul are mentioned in our Ginans in Indic terms like Vishnu, Brahma and Maheshwar.

Even if those ideas are pre and post fatimid, being an ismaili we should know about them and try to connect those idea with ideas mentioned in other ismaili literature from other regions like Ginan, Imam has said in his farman that it's the responsibility of jamat to read our texts in it's original form whether in Gujarati, Urdu or Persian.

Regarding Pir, Indeed Imam appoints the Pir. Piratan is a spiritual authority just like Imamat and only through the marifa of Pir, you can attain marifa of the Imam. Thus, Pir is the proof of the Imam. The farmans of the Pirs are a medium through which we recognizes Imam. The Murids in Sindh, Punjab, Gujarat etc recognized Imam (who lived in Persia) through Pir.

[ismaili103]

Twice you mentioned in your posts 'merged with light of Muhammad" neglecting Noor e Ali. By the way who was created first, Universal Intellect or Universal soul.

And twice I have mentioned that Ali and Mohammad are One not Two.

Universal Intellect -- 1st
Universal Soul -- 2nd

Both are the Manifestation of Divine Command (Kun), thus in essence ONE.

[ismaili103]

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

As I said earlier, you are free with your interpretations and I am free with mine. And I stand by my interpretation that in every era this hierarchy exists (Pre and Post Ali). Pir Sadardin is called Baargur (Guru of Twelve), Jesus had twelve disciples. /quote]

What Jesus's 12 disciples have to do with Baabs. Can you mention names of Pir Sadruddin's 12 disciples, again were they Baabs? The system of da'wa hierarchy was devised for propagation of Ismailism in Fatimid era (7) and in post Almout (12). In modern Ismaili era it is omitted as there is no Ismaili propagation, hence no Baabs.

I am free with my interpretations.

Pir Sadardin being the BAB had twelve Hujjats known as Disciples. It's as simple as that.

Regarding the name, All names are not mentioned but I knew few which I have forgot, one of them was the author of Ginan "Firat Neja Tambal Vaajshe".

The reason he is called Baargur because it's mentioned in many Ginans just like how there is a hadith regarding 124K prophets, do you know the name of all Prophets?

[ismaili103]

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

Secondly, I don’t know from where you are getting this number of thousands of Ismails, it’s a worldwide issue with every religion in every country, people leave their faith, some become atheist and some outsiders join their faith.

AAEIN NINDER MEIN AAYO. Wake up from sleep. It is not worldwide issue. It is pure Ismaili issue. Yes thousands of teenagers, youth, and families have quit Ismailis in Pakistan, India, USA, England and in Europe. Watch U TUBE and social media. What EX ISMAILIS and non Ismailis are writing FILTH, derogatory remarks, and doctored and edited photos of Imam and his family. Don't close your eye like pigeon when it sees cat coming. This DHAMAAL is going on U TUBE for past few years and you are still unaware of it? Go and answer them. It is easy on this blog to come and show your intellect and interpretation. A man from Sydney, a woman from London, a man from Canada other from Atlanta and many non Ismails are writing against our Tariqah, if you have knowledge debate with them
You wrote 'bolna aasan hai',Yes I am on my own engaging with them, explaining them, arguing with them with my other name. What you and others like you still waiting for 'BOLO TA KE PACHANEY JAO'.
For this EXODUS IIS AND ITREB WORLD WIDE ARE RESPONSIBLE.

Have you contacted the spokesperson of every community in the world to come to the conclusion that it's only Ismaili issue and not a worldwide issue. I mean how can be you so ignorant about this issue when everything is on social media. Atheism and leaving your faith for another is on rise and every community is affected by it.

Secondly, have you contacted National Councils of every country to collect the data of thousands of Ismaili leaving Ismailism? I mean, I am not ignorant about this issue, I know many are converting, many converted in Covid due to the closure of JKs but for you making it only Ismaili issue is only your ignorance.

Also, I am aware of all the filth being uploaded on YouTube, I know the channels, videos etc. I am glad. being a DAI of Imam, you are countering it under your capacity. Mowla is kaa ajar tum ko deen or duniya ma de.

[ismaili103]

I stand by my following statement;
In modern era Ismailis do not follow da'wah hierarchy as Hazar Imam discontinued conversion. In GINANIC literature there is no mention of 7 or 12 da'wa hierarchy (physical or spiritual).
In Pakistan particularly in Karachi and Hyderabad thousands of Ismailis mostly youth have quit Ismailism and adopted Sunnism. What went wrong? How come those young dai's left Ismailism. On social media there is DHAMAAL against Ismailism using derogatory term AGAKHANISM as a CULT!! Why not person like you and other so called dai's answer them and explain them. Where is IIS and ITREB's sleeping? Who will explain youth esoteric interpretations?
WOH JO DIL KO SHAD KARIEN, RUH KO PUR NOOR KARIEN KAHAN HAIN!!!

Furthermore, I think, it’s not the responsibility of IIS but ITREB of its repetitive countries. IIS has published some very good books, those books are available online as well as in publications dept. of JKs and JKs library, those who have interest in it will definitely read it, those who don’t have any interest in reading, then it’s the responsibility of ITREB to arrange waez and presentations in JKs. Yesterday and on friday, Video waez of Kamaluddin was played in JKs across Karachi (Not sure about all of Pakistan). The topic was on wasila and shafaat, why we take help from Hazir Imam etc.

We are discussing BAAB. Did AlWaiz Saheb explained theory of Baab. I have been following AlWaiz's lectures, never heard him talking about Baab, if Baab's subject is so important he should have shed light on it on orders of ITREB.
Regarding IIS IMAM is spending millions of dollars on this institute. What is out come. some edited translations, compilations, repetition of same subjects. In past 45 years did IIS produced any tall figure like Nasir Khusraw, Al Kirmani, Qazi Noaman, Mueed Shirazi, Sijistani and others, IIS scholars keep translating their books. Did they come up with some deep philosophy. Answer is no.

You are confronting me like I am the mouthpiece of ITREB. I have my own issues with ITREB that's why I have mentioned that it's the responsibility of the ITREB to arrange waezes and presentations.

Concept of Piratan, Noor-e-Imamat, Concept of perpetual Imamat etc to bohot aagey ki baatein hai, Ismaili youth to choti moti baaton per faith chorney ki baatein krti hai like hum Ali se madad q mangte ha, Dua q parhte ha etc.

And I think, It's responsibility of ITREB to answer these questions from the youth to create a foundation before constructing a skyscraper on it.

Regarding IIS, if a Khoja, Momna, Hunzai and Chitrali who can't understand Persian is able to read the Paradise of Submission, Face of Religion etc in English and gaining esoteric knowledge of our religion, then I think IIS is going its job good if not great.

[ismaili103]

In past 45 years did IIS produced any tall figure like Nasir Khusraw, Al Kirmani, Qazi Noaman, Mueed Shirazi, Sijistani and others

I want to add one thing here, neither you nor me know the spiritual rank of a murid. We don't know the spiritual ranks of those Ismailis who are doing research work and publishing books in IIS. We don't know whether they are doing it purely for the academic purpose or are they actually subscribe to those esoteric ideas mentioned in our Ginans and books.

The bottom line is, we don't know whether IIS or ITREB has produced scholars and waezins who are spiritually at the ranks of those you have mentioned above. Imam knows better, we are nobody to judge anyone.

[swamidada]

In past 45 years did IIS produced any tall figure like Nasir Khusraw, Al Kirmani, Qazi Noaman, Mueed Shirazi, Sijistani and others

I want to add one thing here, neither you nor me know the spiritual rank of a murid. We don't know the spiritual ranks of those Ismailis who are doing research work and publishing books in IIS. We don't know whether they are doing it purely for the academic purpose or are they actually subscribe to those esoteric ideas mentioned in our Ginans and books.

The bottom line is, we don't know whether IIS or ITREB has produced scholars and waezins who are spiritually at the ranks of those you have mentioned above. Imam knows better, we are nobody to judge anyone.

You are living in imaginary world. When some one is hired it is not on spiritual standards but on his/her credibility in particular field. Hazar Imam yearly is spending around $100+ millions (may be more, I don't have exact figure, neither leadership declares) on IIS AND ITREBs. There are around 150 IIS staff members and may be 1000+ staff members of all ITREBs on pay roll. Expenditure includes salaries, insurance policies, medical, paid leaves, rents, administrative costs, traveling, books for libraries, scholarships and publishing. WHAT IS OUT COME?!! By the way mostly books are written by non Ismaili scholars.

[swamidada]

You are confronting me like I am the mouthpiece of ITREB. I have my own issues with ITREB that's why I have mentioned that it's the responsibility of the ITREB to arrange waezes and presentations.

Concept of Piratan, Noor-e-Imamat, Concept of perpetual Imamat etc to bohot aagey ki baatein hai, Ismaili youth to choti moti baaton per faith chorney ki baatein krti hai like hum Ali se madad q mangte ha, Dua q parhte ha etc.

That's why I wrote IIS and ITREB's are failures. They failed to educate jamaits and youth. Just to arrange a 10/12 minutes pre recorded lecture is not effective as a live person. In past 60 years they did not trained jamaits to pronounce Dua correctly, jamaits do not know meaning of Dua, jamaits are unable to pronounce correct Kalma including Mukhi, Kamadia. Mistakes in Ginan pronunciation and so on. Even STEP TRAINEES mostly are unable to recite correct Dua or know Dua's meaning or philosophy.

I am not saying you are mouth piece of ITREB, I have not used these words.

[swamidada]

Furthermore, I think, it’s not the responsibility of IIS but ITREB of its repetitive countries. IIS has published some very good books, those books are available online as well as in publications dept. of JKs and JKs library, those who have interest in it will definitely read it, those who don’t have any interest in reading, then it’s the responsibility of ITREB to arrange waez and presentations in JKs. Yesterday and on friday, Video waez of Kamaluddin was played in JKs across Karachi (Not sure about all of Pakistan). The topic was on wasila and shafaat, why we take help from Hazir Imam etc.

We are discussing BAAB. Did AlWaiz Saheb explained theory of Baab. I have been following AlWaiz's lectures, never heard him talking about Baab, if Baab's subject is so important he should have shed light on it on orders of ITREB.
Regarding IIS IMAM is spending millions of dollars on this institute. What is out come. some edited translations, compilations, repetition of same subjects. In past 45 years did IIS produced any tall figure like Nasir Khusraw, Al Kirmani, Qazi Noaman, Mueed Shirazi, Sijistani and others, IIS scholars keep translating their books. Did they come up with some deep philosophy. Answer is no.

Regarding IIS, if a Khoja, Momna, Hunzai and Chitrali who can't understand Persian is able to read the Paradise of Submission, Face of Religion etc in English and gaining esoteric knowledge of our religion, then I think IIS is going its job good if not great.

Youth and teenagers are under pressure and confused in religious affairs. When they ask questions about SALAT, SOUM. HAJJ, QURAN, they are not getting satisfactory answers from religious teachers and missionaries. The answer they get are wrapped in batiniyat, ta'weel, flying high interpretations and they are more confused. To day's youth are not like you and me, they want answers in YES OR NO FORMAT. Do we fast, yes or no. Can we go for Umrah, yes or no. We can not pour buckets of batiniyat and ta'weel in their early age brains.

[swamidada]

Secondly, I don’t know from where you are getting this number of thousands of Ismails, it’s a worldwide issue with every religion in every country, people leave their faith, some become atheist and some outsiders join their faith.

AAEIN NINDER MEIN AAYO. Wake up from sleep. It is not worldwide issue. It is pure Ismaili issue. Yes thousands of teenagers, youth, and families have quit Ismailis in Pakistan, India, USA, England and in Europe. Watch U TUBE and social media. What EX ISMAILIS and non Ismailis are writing FILTH, derogatory remarks, and doctored and edited photos of Imam and his family. Don't close your eye like pigeon when it sees cat coming. This DHAMAAL is going on U TUBE for past few years and you are still unaware of it? Go and answer them. It is easy on this blog to come and show your intellect and interpretation. A man from Sydney, a woman from London, a man from Canada other from Atlanta and many non Ismails are writing against our Tariqah, if you have knowledge debate with them
You wrote 'bolna aasan hai',Yes I am on my own engaging with them, explaining them, arguing with them with my other name. What you and others like you still waiting for 'BOLO TA KE PACHANEY JAO'.
For this EXODUS IIS AND ITREB WORLD WIDE ARE RESPONSIBLE.

Have you contacted the spokesperson of every community in the world to come to the conclusion that it's only Ismaili issue and not a worldwide issue. I mean how can be you so ignorant about this issue when everything is on social media. Atheism and leaving your faith for another is on rise and every community is affected by it.

Secondly, have you contacted National Councils of every country to collect the data of thousands of Ismaili leaving Ismailism? I mean, I am not ignorant about this issue, I know many are converting, many converted in Covid due to the closure of JKs but for you making it only Ismaili issue is only your ignorance.

Also, I am aware of all the filth being uploaded on YouTube, I know the channels, videos etc. I am glad. being a DAI of Imam, you are countering it under your capacity. Mowla is kaa ajar tum ko deen or duniya ma de.

I am concerned about Ismaili faith and youth. I am a field worker. If other communities have such problems it is elders to look into their problems and make adjustments.

I have data, worst affected is Pakistan, particularly Hyderabad and Karachi. Beside Pakistan, UAE, is USA mostly Houston. Dallas, Atlanta, New york, then London and Toronto. Once I wrote a letter to coordinator of ITREB about exodus of Ismailis to other tariqahs.

[swamidada]

In my opinion, PREAMBLE OF CONSTITUTION should be read and explained to jamaits every 3 months. After 1986, I never heard about Preamble in any jmamait khana again, nor I saw on NOTICE BOARDS. Hazar Imam has explained the TENETS of Ismailism. This will help a lot at least youth should come to know about Tenets. Let me quote the main articles of PREAMBLE:

The Preamble
(A) The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm the shahadah la ilaha illa-llah, Muhammadur rasulu-llah, the Tawhid therein and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.s.) is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet (s.a.s.) through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters.

(B) In accordance with Shia doctrine, tradition, and interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet (s.a.s.) designated and appointed his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu’minin (a.s), to be the first Imam to continue the Ta’wil and Ta‘lim of Allah’s final message and to guide the murids, and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (a.s) and his daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az-Zahra, Khatun-i-Jannat (a.s).

(C) Succession of Imamat is by way of Nass, it being the absolute prerogative of the Imam of the time to appoint his successor from amongst any of his male descendents whether they be sons or remoter issue.

(D) The authority of the Imam in the Ismaili Tariqah is testified by Bay‘ah by the murid to the Imam which is the act of acceptance by the murid of the permanent spiritual bond between the Imam and the murid. This allegiance unites all Ismaili Muslims worldwide in their loyalty, devotion and obedience to the Imam within the Islamic concept of universal brotherhood. It is distinct from the allegiance of the individual murid to his land of abode.

(E) From the time of the Imamat of Hazrat Mawlana Ali (a.s), the Imams of the Ismaili Muslims have ruled over territories and peoples in various areas of the world at different periods of history and, in accordance with the needs of the time, have given rules of conduct and constitution in conformity with the Islamic concepts of unity, brotherhood, justice, tolerance and goodwill.

(F) Historically and in accordance with Ismaili tradition, the Imam of the time is concerned with spiritual advancement as well as improvement of the quality of life of his murids. The imam’s ta‘lim lights the murid’s path to spiritual enlightenment and vision. In temporal matters, the Imam guides the murids, and motivates them to develop their potential.

(G) Mawlana Hazar Imam Shah Karim al Hussaini, His Highness Prince Aga Khan, in direct lineal descent from the Holy Prophet (s.a.s.) through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (a.s.) and Hazrat Bibi Fatima (a.s), is the Forty-Ninth Imam of the Ismaili Muslims.

[ismaili103]

In past 45 years did IIS produced any tall figure like Nasir Khusraw, Al Kirmani, Qazi Noaman, Mueed Shirazi, Sijistani and others

I want to add one thing here, neither you nor me know the spiritual rank of a murid. We don't know the spiritual ranks of those Ismailis who are doing research work and publishing books in IIS. We don't know whether they are doing it purely for the academic purpose or are they actually subscribe to those esoteric ideas mentioned in our Ginans and books.

The bottom line is, we don't know whether IIS or ITREB has produced scholars and waezins who are spiritually at the ranks of those you have mentioned above. Imam knows better, we are nobody to judge anyone.

You are living in imaginary world. When some one is hired it is not on spiritual standards but on his/her credibility in particular field. Hazar Imam yearly is spending around $100+ millions (may be more, I don't have exact figure, neither leadership declares) on IIS AND ITREBs. There are around 150 IIS staff members and may be 1000+ staff members of all ITREBs on pay roll. Expenditure includes salaries, insurance policies, medical, paid leaves, rents, administrative costs, traveling, books for libraries, scholarships and publishing. WHAT IS OUT COME?!! By the way mostly books are written by non Ismaili scholars.

You didn't get my point. Indeed, the Imam appoints individuals on the basis of merit, but my point was "Dilon ke haal Mowla Janta hai". I was answering your question, 'Has IIS produced any individual like Khusrow, Kirmani, etc.?' The answer is that we don't know because we can never know their spiritual ranks. Only the Imam knows.

[ismaili103]

A lot of the issues in the minds of our youth can be solved if ITREB, Council, etc. manage to make them understand that the Imam of the time has the authority to change or abandon Shariah based on the circumstances, but the essence of our faith remains the same.

What happened in our JKs during COVID times is the best example of Shariah change, where the essence remains the same.

[swamidada]

FOR INFORMATION:
First Hujjah in Ismailism:
During Fatimid era Imam Mustansirbillah appointed queen Sayyida Hurra as the Hujjah of Yamen after death of her husband in 477/1084. This represented the first application of the rank of Hujjah in the da'wa hierarchy to a woman. But irony is that after the death of Imam Mustansirbillah Sayyida Hurra sided with Musta'li and abandoned the Imamat of Nizar and propagated Imamat of Musta'li in Yamen and Cairo.
Reference: A short History of Ismails by Farhad Daftary pg; 105-109.

Now question is when queen Sayyida Hurra abandoned Imam Nizar and sided with Musta'li, is she still be Hujjah of Nizari Ismailis because she broke Ba'yat?