Prayer

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Wed May 11, 2005 9:54 pm

Reference: Alwaez Bahadur Ali

It is in Memoirs of Aga Khan that,"Thus Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the Prophets of Israel are universally accepted by Islam. Muslims indeed know no limitation merely to the Prophets of Israel; they are ready to admit that there were similar Divinely inspired messengers in other countries Gautama Buddha, Shri Krishna and Shri Ram in India, Socrates in Greece, the wise man of China and many other sages and saints among peoples and civilizations, trace of which we have lost. Thus man's soul has never been left without a specially inspired messenger from the soul that sustains, embraces and is the universe."

There was a war between Pandavs and Koravs in battlr of Kurukshetra commonly known as Maha bharat. Koravs were large in number as compare to Pandavs whose supporter was Shri Krishna. Maha Bharat is called is "Dhram Yudh" which means holy war or jihad. Pandit Shankar Das wrote in his book the pryer which Krishna asked in the war of Maha Bharat." The prayer is in hindi which is as follow:
"A Ishwar Sansaar Parmaatma tujhey teri Zaat ki qasam jo dharti aur aqaash ka janam honey ka karaan hai, A Ishwar tujhey teray preetam k preetam ki kasam jo Aaheli haijo sansaar k sab sey baray mandi mai kaley pathar k nazdeek apna chamatkar dikhayega, meri pratna sun rakshaso ko khatam ker sacho ko fatah de A Ishwar, A Ishwar, A Ishwar."
Now examine the meaning of prayer
A Ishwar means Oh God. Sansaar parmatma means "Rab-ul- Aalameen."
Teri Zaat ki Qassam means of Holy Prophet [PBUH] as poet says
Khuda ki Zaat mai jo rehta Nur Khuda ho ker
Jehan mai wa utar aya Nabi Mustafa ho ker
Later it is said jo zameen aur akash k paida kiye jaany ka karaan hai means which is the reason for the creation of earth and heaven. It is in hadith Qudsi and is also quoted in Risala dar haqiqat deen by Pir Shabudin that Allah says to Prophet [PBUh] that if You were not I would not create this universe. Then further is prayer is preetam k preetam ki kasam..Pretam of God means beloved of God. Beloved of God is Muhammad [PBUH] as He is also said as Habib Allah meaning beloved of God, teray pretam k pretam ki kasam means kasam of beloved one of the beloved of God that means of Ali. There are many hadiths which shows the love of Ali. then it is in prayer jo Aaheli hai jo sansaar k sab say baray mandir mai kaley pathar k kareeb chamatkar dikhayega.
Mandir here not refers to place where there are idols but means house of God..
Sab se bara mandir...Biggest house of God...Khana-e-Kaba
It is Khana-e-Kaba because there is also Kala Pathar i.e, black stone in Khana-e-Kaba which is not in any temple. For a momen if we suppose that there is a big temple and there is a black stone over there too then where is miracle?? But in Khana-e-Kaba there is black stone as well as there was miracle..Miracle of birth of Ali where Khana-e-Kaba was closed and the walls opened miraculously and Fatima went inside and Hazrat Ali was born.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:54 pm

star_munir wrote:Hi,
How are you? With regards to your post in "Why not ismailis" although KMaher Ali had given you a reply I would suggest you to read "Prayer" from anecdotes section and let me know what do you think about that..
Ya Ali Madad

I read that and what I understand from the quotation from Memoirs of Aga Khan brings the Hindu dieates under the umbrella of messengers rather than individual gods or avatars. Thus pacifying Muslims in Indo-Pak region before their independence to keep them united in there quest of independence movement rather then Muslims picking on Hindus and converted Muslims form Hinduism who have kept their religious rites and rituals and incorporated with there Islamic faith. A good example would be Khoja and Bhories and Mamern(Sunni and Shia both) all there also known as Mumbaias or Bombyias.
As to the "Prayer" and your Reference of Alwaez Bahadur Ali, I am guessing.

star_munir wrote: Pandit Shankar Das wrote in his book the pryer which Krishna asked in the war of Maha Bharat.

I really don't know or understand the whole thing there but, in you translations of terms seems to me is that the tone was being set to justify the ginans where the similar words are in use. As you may know by now (it is happening here in States and in Canada) that there are many ginans that are no longer approved to be sung in JKs and there has been a list of approved ginans by ITREB only to be sung in JKs. Also, there has been a great effort put forth in changing words in ginans also.

star_munir wrote: Teri Zaat ki Qassam means of Holy Prophet [PBUH] as poet says

I am in no way or any capacity to translate Hindi or Urdu but I was able to have someone that I know speaks the language gave me the translation to it:
Teri = Yours
Zaat = kind or species
Qassam = Swear or Pledge or Promise
As put together Swearing on your kind (or offspring) not close to what you wrote, it that is so what Holy Prophet is being referred to?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:53 pm

As you wrote: "As you may know by now (it is happening here in States and in Canada) that there are many ginans that are no longer approved to be sung in JKs and there has been a list of approved ginans by ITREB only to be sung in JKs. Also, there has been a great effort put forth in changing words in ginans also. "
As far as Changings in Ginans is concerned there is long but interesting discussion on it of 3 pages in Secion of Ginan under topic changings in Ginan. Different views of different missionaries and Farmans etc are discussed in it...
Teri Zaat ki Qasam means Your Swear
As far as Das Avtar,Ginan & reality and Quran is concerned there was discussion of this in detail in doctrine section under topic of .
"Quran,Adam and Pir revolution and das avatar"
Also here suggesting you to read this was not to debate on das avtar..as here the story shows Krishna to be Prophet who at that time while Prayer to God asked help through Muhammad [PBUh] and Ali [A.S].
The point is that the true religion was from begining of this world.
There are prophecies of [PBUH] in hindu scriptures about Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] like

Bhavishya purana. Parv 3, Khand 3, Adhya 3, Shalok 5-8.

A malechha (a foreigner speaking a foreign language.) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Muhammad. Raja (Bhoj) after giving this Maha Dev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the `Panchgavya' and Ganges water, (i.e., purging him of all sins) offers him the presents of his sincere devotion and show him all reverence say, `I make obeisance to thee. O ye! The pride of mankind, the dweller of (marusthal) desert, Ye have collected a great force to kill the devil and you yourself have been protected from the malechha opponents.' `O ye! The image of The Most Pious GOD The biggest LORD, I am a slave to thee, take me as one lying on thy feet.'

ATHARVA VEDA, khanda 20, sukta 127, mantra 1-3.

"O people, listen this empathetically! The man of praise (Muhammad) will be raised among people. We take the emigrant in our shelter from sixty thousand and ninety enemies whose conveyances are twenty camels and she camels, whose loftiness of position touches the heaven and lowers it. He gave to Maharishi hundred of gold coins ten circles, three hundred Arab horses and ten thousand cows. "

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:57 pm

Star-
There seems to be a pattern that you are miss quoting or miss translating things, I think on an another form someone told you that something you were quoting was (the memors) not correct. And here again:

star_munir wrote: Teri Zaat ki Qassam means of Holy Prophet [PBUH] as poet says

which is not correct as I found the translation for you:

unnalhaq wrote: I am in no way or any capacity to translate Hindi or Urdu but I was able to have someone that I know speaks the language gave me the translation to it:
Teri = Yours
Zaat = kind or species
Qassam = Swear or Pledge or Promise
As put together Swearing on your kind (or offspring) not close to what you wrote, it that is so what Holy Prophet is being referred to?

The thing is that you need pay more attention to your sources and checking facts.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:05 pm

I had not misquoted from Memoirs of Aga Khan. I wrote to KMaher Ali that I have wrote what is in the book which I have. If you have some thing different in the book you have then kindly tell me. But he said that he thought in the book of Memoirs of Agakhan it was misquoted by publisher or some thing like that. Correct me K Maher Ali if I said wrong. Otherwise you may check out Memoirs of Aga Khan and you will see exactly what I quoted.
Secondly I understand Hindi,Gujrati,Urdu etc so there is not need to me to check the translation .Teri Zaat means your own self or simply yours...

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:25 am

star_munir wrote:I had not misquoted from Memoirs of Aga Khan. I wrote to KMaher Ali that I have wrote what is in the book which I have. If you have some thing different in the book you have then kindly tell me. But he said that he thought in the book of Memoirs of Agakhan it was misquoted by publisher or some thing like that. Correct me K Maher Ali if I said wrong. Otherwise you may check out Memoirs of Aga Khan and you will see exactly what I quoted.
Secondly I understand Hindi,Gujrati,Urdu etc so there is not need to me to check the translation .Teri Zaat means your own self or simply yours...

But you still didn't say why you:

star_munir wrote: Teri Zaat ki Qassam means of Holy Prophet [PBUH] as poet says

May be I am not reading/understanding what you are trying to say.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:32 am

It simply means He [Prophet] used to live in Khuda as Noor of Khuda [before creation] and He came as Prophet Muhammad that simply means Prophet Muhammad as Nur of Allah in human form...

kinnare786 · Post by **kinnare786** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:46 am

Teri Zaat : dictionary meaning would mean your spicies but people who know the language do know that it means your self. and over here star Munir is correct. It happen in every language dictonary meaning and real mean are little bit difference. If you check in Ferozson's Luquat you will see the difference. One of those funny thing in life on which we can always argue.