Dua should be in universal language!

Aly_shallwani · Post by **Aly_shallwani** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:15 pm

I think that as Quran was revealed when Arabic was a universal language and now universal and passport language is english so Dua should be in english as we all could understand dua perfectly and as our imam is (zamane ka imam) and its really difficult to remember the meaning of dua if it was in universal language,when every we recite dua we'll understand on time so share your views on this topic it is not possible but we can discuss this!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:51 pm

In my opinion it is a matter of identity. Imagine calling yourself a Muslim when you cannot recite an ayat of Holy Quran.

The following speech of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah explains the importance of Arabic for the Muslim Umma. Click on the link below.

http://ismaili.net/sultan/5msms.html

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:52 pm

YAM to all,
well in my opinion
arabic is the universal language for ALL muslims
i mean everywhere we go may it be, Canada, USA
Russia, Syria, India, Pak, etc.... the dua is recited
in ARABIC if im not wrong. English is probably
the most used language in the world today. If we go
to the jamats outside North America, we can still feel
the sense of belonging because of the Arabic Dua,
we may not be able to understand Farsi for example
or other languages BUT Arabic is everywhere we go
Even in MHI speeeches he says bismillah e rahman nir rahim to NON
ismailies. However, Hazar Imam has said to not just know the dua by
heart but the meanings as well in ARABIC. He interprets the faith for us
if tomorrow he says the dua will be in english then we will follow as
he commands. There has to be reasons behind the Arabic Dua, I just
tried to articulate a few. The arabic dua is has the whole essence
of the quran in just 6 parts to me it is the greatest of all prayers.
Please don't hesitate to give feedback, I may be wrong

---------------------

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:53 pm

There is importance of Arabic as Quran is in Arabic but at the same time there is also importance of other languages for example Gujrati as many Ginans are in Gujrati, English as there are Farmans to learn English.

Dua is in Arabic because its will of Hazir Imam. If Hazir Imam will say to recite dua in Hindi,in Urdu or in Spanish we will recite dua in that language.
Namaz was in Arabic because people of Arabia knew only that language.Pir Sadardin made dua in Gujrati as people of India knew that language but now there are ismailis living in so many different countries like Agghanistan,Syria,U.S.A etc. There is not any language which is spoken by all ismailis living around the world so Sultan Mohammad Shah made dua in Arabic. Dua which we recite today was composed by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah.It is in Arabic and there are Quranic verses in it.
Although Arabic is not spoken or understood by every ismailis but There are Farmans to understand meaning of Dua and know its translation.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:57 pm

star_munir
excellent feedback
almost same as mine

Aly_shallwani · Post by **Aly_shallwani** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:53 am

In my opinion Dua is one of the basics of our relegion thats why i think if Dua would be in english as Munir stated that Quran was revealed when Arabic was international language but i dont think now is the same else some countries no one can really understand it perfectly thats the reason i think if dua would be in English every common man could understand it brilliantly, as with me is the same some times i remember the meaning when ever dua is being recites on Jamat khana but some times i do for get as we talk about Farmaan i can just listen it and understand on time..

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:35 am

Thank you thaillestlunatic for liking my comments. Dua is not in English. There can be many reasons for that. One is English is not understood by all ismailis although its world language but still English is most commonly understood by youths and old people and children do not know how to speak,how to correctly spell and pronounce. There is great imporatance of English thats why Hazir Imam is saying to know English and Hazir Imam also made Farmans in English as it is world language but the real charm of reciting Quranic verses is in Arabic not in English.
For example I can understand Gujrati so if there is Ginan in Gujrati I can understand its meaning but for others I need translation. There are many people who need translations for Ginans as there is not any one language in which there are Ginans. You can recite the translation in English but you will not get such Enjoyment or I mean the charm which you will feel while reading it in actual language. The same is with other books and literature. Like if you will read Ramayan in pure urdu words you will not feel good or will like more while reading or watching it in hindi. The Same is with Quran. In arabic there are many meanings of single word therefore you will find different interpretations. You can understand meaning by translation of Quranic verses but real beauty or charm will felt while reading in Arabic.

Aly_shallwani · Post by **Aly_shallwani** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:44 am

Brilliant views man i understood clearly now!

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:45 pm

In my opinion, it is a matter of pride that we say our prayers in Arabic. If the Christians can say there prayers in English and Hindus can say theres in Hindi, and Jews in Hebrew then why cant we Muslims recite our prayers in Arabic?

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:31 pm

no one said we couldn't
we still do say dua and namaz in arabic and will do so
until the Imam e Zaman wants to change it,

--------------------

alinizar313 · Post by **alinizar313** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:08 pm

We know that our religion is esoteric but what we are doing here. Instead of contemplate on inner meaning of dua, we are wasting our precious breaths( dums) and entangling ourselves in the futile discussion that what should be the language of Dua. Afsos...........Afsos...........If we really have Iman in our Imam then we should live this matter on Him. He knows what is better for us. Educate yourself dear.

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:24 pm

I was just trying to answer the question which was asked... and i dont appreciate the comment "educate yourself." I was merly trying to answer a question do not think i am stupid becuase that is hardly the case. Another thing the comment which I made before "why cant we?" i was just trying to say that if these people can say there prayers in there original languages why should we have to say it in english?

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:02 pm

DUA WILL BE IN ARABIC TILL IMAM-E-ZAMAN
WISHES TO CHANGE IT

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:08 pm

What i ment was that there is nothing wrong with saying our dua in arabic. If the Jews can recite there prayers in Hebrew and stick to there traditions then why should we have to change our prayers just so that everyone can understand. Please do not get me wrong I did not mean to say that dua should be changed to English becuase frankly that is the descion of the Imam of the time.

alinizar313 · Post by **alinizar313** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:04 pm

aminL wrote:I was just trying to answer the question which was asked... and i dont appreciate the comment "educate yourself." I was merly trying to answer a question do not think i am stupid becuase that is hardly the case. Another thing the comment which I made before "why cant we?" i was just trying to say that if these people can say there prayers in there original languages why should we have to say it in english?

I always try to use word "WE" Instead of "YOU" when trying to pinpoint anything controversial matter just to avoid any egoism. You can read my comments again. It is my mistake that I used word "yourself" instead of using "ourselves". I beg pardon if it hits your feelings.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:04 pm

My mouth and my breath say the dua in Arabic

My mind and the intellect that percieves the meaning of Dua does so in Gujrati as that was the language in which I had memorized it as a child.

No one can change the language in which your intellect understands the dua.

Changing the zaheri Dua language would accomplish nothing.

akberm · Post by **akberm** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:00 am

Also, Arabic is the onLY language that is Unique... Let me explain what I am saying; For eg: If we say KUL HO ALLAH HO AHAD the english translation of AHAD is one. where as, there is NO translation in English or any language for AHAD . AHAD is something like UNIQUE, IF we say ALLAH is onE then we are limiting ALLAH to a number who is 2, 3 or 4 ... Therefore, there are many words in the Arabic Language that can really NOT be translated in any language. Moreover, Arabic is the onLY language that has no tense.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:27 pm

Ahad means "wahid" in urdu which means alone or one.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:03 pm

Let me share my understanding of Ahad

AHAD = THE ONLY

Shams

ALWAAZ-HUSSAIN · Post by **ALWAAZ-HUSSAIN** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:23 am

Aly_shallwani wrote:I think that as Quran was revealed when Arabic was a universal language and now universal and passport language is english so Dua should be in english as we all could understand dua perfectly and as our imam is (zamane ka imam) and its really difficult to remember the meaning of dua if it was in universal language,when every we recite dua we'll understand on time so share your views on this topic it is not possible but we can discuss this!

ALY Can U TELL ME THE MEANING OF THE ARABIC WORD "REHMAN"which is the word of our dua .........

Aly_shallwani · Post by **Aly_shallwani** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:59 am

The meaning of the word rehman is Allah is rehman to all he gives every body wat ever people ask for & rehman means "soft heart " who do not refuses to any body for help or to bless any one!

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:51 pm

Just to add Engilsh word for Rehman is "Merciful"

skaswani · Post by **skaswani** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:29 am

Yam
Aly_shallwani

I think you forgot who is the power in Ismailies.. I think he is Imam who has the full right to tell you in which language you should pray & not!

we have to OBEY!
Ok

yam

curious1 · Post by **curious1** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:51 am

Posting by Shamsu

My mouth and my breath say the dua in Arabic. My mind and the intellect that percieves the meaning of Dua does so in Gujrati as that was the language in which I had memorized it as a child. No one can change the language in which your intellect understands the dua.

Mashallah, one of the best posting in the whole thread and thoroughly understandable. The youths growing up in West should understand what you have said above before they could even try to understand the meaning of Dua in English.

curious1 · Post by **curious1** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:55 am

I think you forgot who is the power in Ismailies.. I think he is Imam who has the full right to tell you in which language you should pray & not!

we have to OBEY!

Recurrence of above theme is very rampant on almost all the topics I have encountered so far. The question is, if we were to believe what you are saying above then we don't even need to be here on this forum. I recommend we shy away from statements like above otherwise there is no need to discuss anything.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:53 pm

Thank You curious1,

The reason we say dua is because Hazir Imam asked us to.

If he tells us to do aerobics instead of dua, then that will become our manner of worship no matter what anyone else says.

If this concept is understood, a milestone has been achieved.

Shams

tasbiha · Post by **tasbiha** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:47 pm

shamsu wrote:Thank You curious1,

The reason we say dua is because Hazir Imam asked us to.

If he tells us to do aerobics instead of dua, then that will become our manner of worship no matter what anyone else says.

If this concept is understood, a milestone has been achieved.

Shams

I agree with you, totally, but I would like to point out that Classical Arabic (allugatal-fuzha) is a universal classical language, more so than Latin. Nobody speaks Latin anymore; there are no newscasts in Latin. But there are in Fuzha, evan though Fuzha is more difficult to learn than Latin.

Why do you think MHI wants the Holy Du'a in Arabic? That's the language the angels pray in.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:25 am

_thaillestlunatic_ wrote:YAM to all,
well in my opinion
arabic is the universal language for ALL muslims
i mean everywhere we go may it be, Canada, USA
Russia, Syria, India, Pak, etc.... the dua is recited
in ARABIC if im not wrong. English is probably
the most used language in the world today. If we go
to the jamats outside North America, we can still feel
the sense of belonging because of the Arabic Dua,
we may not be able to understand Farsi for example
or other languages BUT Arabic is everywhere we go
Even in MHI speeeches he says bismillah e rahman nir rahim to NON
ismailies. However, Hazar Imam has said to not just know the dua by
heart but the meanings as well in ARABIC. He interprets the faith for us
if tomorrow he says the dua will be in english then we will follow as
he commands. There has to be reasons behind the Arabic Dua, I just
tried to articulate a few. The arabic dua is has the whole essence
of the quran in just 6 parts to me it is the greatest of all prayers.
Please don't hesitate to give feedback, I may be wrong

You are right I am always lost besides when there is Dua being recited in JK. I have no clue about everything else except from the common Persian ("Farsi") phrases like "Khannavadan" and the Farmans that are in English.

www.ismaili.net

Dua should be in universal language!

Dua should be in universal language!

Arabic Universal Language of Islam.

Meaning

I liked your fine views!

Afsoos

yourself oan ourselves

Intellect and language

Ahad

Re: Dua should be in universal language!

Yam

reply of : Dua should be in universal language!

Aerobics

Re: Aerobics