Syed Imam Shah

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:43 am

YAM,
I want to ask a question.There are many ginans of Syed Imam Shah.In some of them word pir is used .He was not pir? Do any one know why in some ginans word pir is used for him for example shah na khat aaviya and in one ginan Pir Sadardin also used the word Pir for himGinan is paachamm thee shah na daal avasshey

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:56 pm

I beleive the title of Pir was given after his passing away. Similarly the Pir Sabjali was given a Title of Pir after his death.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:07 am

His name is not included in the list of Ismali Pirs.But in ginans word pir is used for him even in one ginan Pir Sadardin used the word Pir for him.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:56 pm

Syed Imam Shah was not a "Satadhari" Pir, a Pir with Authority. He was not in the list od Pirs in the Asal Dua which contained a full list of Pirs. I believe he was called Pir in the sense any respected person is called Pir like we say Pir Nassir Khusraw.

We also say Mowlana Rumi but not in the same sense as Mowlana Ali, so even if the word used is the same and can be use in various meaning, Syed Imam Shah was not a Pir as Pir Sadardin however if the ginan says Pir for him, we shouls just maintain it as is and consider that it is Pir in the sense he was respectable but not in Authority.

If I know my dates correctly the Pir in Authority was Pir Hassan Kabirdin at that time.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:45 pm

Imam was sent a letter about a program arranged in Pakistan about Syed Nasir Khusraw.

When Imam replied to that letter He mentioned Pir Nasir Khusraw

salimwali_mohd · Post by **salimwali_mohd** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:02 am

Syed Imam Shah was not a peer but he used his nam as apeer because he was thinking that his post is same as his father although his brother was slected a peer. Lateon he left the Ismaili comunity and made his own group by his son IMAM SHAHI but because this ginan was written when he was Ismaili so we are reciting those ginan in Jamaat Khana.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:26 pm

salimwali_mohd wrote:Syed Imam Shah was not a peer but he used his nam as apeer because he was thinking that his post is same as his father although his brother was slected a peer. Lateon he left the Ismaili comunity and made his own group by his son IMAM SHAHI but because this ginan was written when he was Ismaili so we are reciting those ginan in Jamaat Khana.

Ya Aly Madad salimwali_mohd,

What you state above is not entirely true.

I know that Syed Imam Shah did not leave Isamaili community. He was always an Ismaili and died an Ismaili.

His son, I cannot say for sure what he was when he died.

This is fact.

Shamsu

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:27 pm

If syed Imam Shah left Ismailism than why His Ginans are recited?
Read Ginan Shah naa Khat avviya of Syed Imam Shah Showing His love towards Imam.Syed Mohammad Shah said that
Charay charay jug mahei phari phari joiyu
teray toley koi naa aave saheeb jee tu moray man bhave
How can he left Ismailism.
But it is written in NOOR MUBIN that he left the religion.

aminhooda · Post by **aminhooda** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:38 pm

Pls. note that Chaarey Joog Mahe(n) is composed by Sayed Muhammad Shah. He is in recent times when Imams came to India. However, Sayed Imam Shah was in the Iran Period, i.e., it was times of Pir Hassan Kabirdin (RA).

Sayed Imam shah was one of the sons of Pir Hassan. He had given his allegience to Imam. However, his followers had entertained anti-Imam feelings despite his teachings. Pls. see the most authentic version of Ismaili History by Farhad Daftary. If possible share your readings with us.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:06 am

It is in Noorum Mubin that Syed Imam Shah left ismailism.
Are there two Syed Mohammad Shah?
As the name of a son of Pir Hassan Kabirdin is Syed Mohammad Shah.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:22 pm

Ya Aly Madad Star_munir

That Statement in Noorum mubeen is incorrect

It was not sayed Imam shah who left Ismaili Faith.

You can consult With Missionary Mohammedaly Bhimani in dallas who has studied Ginans for over 35 years full time and is considered a source of vast magnitude in his research of Pirs and Ginans

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:23 pm

MOWLA ALI MADAD SHAMSU.
THANK YOU FOR REPLY.
I AM HAPPY TO READ YOUR POST AFTER A LONG TIME.

alinizar313 · Post by **alinizar313** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:45 pm

Syed Imam shah was not Pir by Authority but actually he attained the stage of pir. Even we can acheive that stage as Imam S.M.S told in his farman that you can be like Pir Sadardin. You can go even higher than that. Syed Imam shah was the son of Pir Hasan Kabirdin. When the latter passed away, Imam shah was out of town. When he got the demise news of his father, he came and just attended the funeral and asked her father what was for me. And Pir Hasan Kabirdin hand came out from his Janaza and there were tasbih and sweets (Saakur) in that, instructing him to pray God and use sweets tongue. Later Pir Tajdin, brother of Pir Hasan Kabirdin was given Piratan. Syed Imam shah was very upset and approached to Imam Mustansribillah. Imam told him not to get upset and I would give you one thing which I normally give to Pir. And that was ISM-E-AZAM. and by that Syed Imam shah did the jouney to heaven.

alinizar313 · Post by **alinizar313** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:00 pm

Syed Imam Shah did not leave the Ismaili faith. But after his death, his son Syed mohammed shah (who think that the right of Pir was for his father Imam shah) claimed as Imam and called himself as Ner Mohammed Shah. The meaning of Ner means Husband or Lord. He started his own faith called Imam Shahi. His followers are still exist in North Gujrat near Village Paatan and they recite the ginan of Syed Imam shah and Syed Mohammed Shah. I heared some ginans from them when I was in India like " Ugamiya Sohi din Athamiya", Sahibji tu morai mun Bhavai". They also take out Abe Shafa. They partially follow Hinduism.

alinizar313 · Post by **alinizar313** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:09 pm

Syedna Pir Nasir Khusraw was a Hujjat Of Khurasan and Badakhshan. FIrst he was Hujjat and then promoted to Hujjat-e-Azam. Hujjat-e-Azam title is equivelent to Pir. At that time there were 24 Hujjat and was controlled by Hujjat-e-Azam. I think this should clear the confusion.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:41 pm

Thank you very much

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:01 pm

A distinction needs to be made, here is the ranking as I understand it:

Imam Mustaqarr (carries Noor of Ali)
Imam Mustawda/Authorized Pir (carries Noor of Muhammad)
Bab (called the Supreme Hujjat, or the Gate/Threshold of the Imam)
Hujjat (there are 12 Hujjahs of the Day, and 12 Hujjahs of the Night)
Dai

example:

In 7th century, Hazrat Ali was Mustaqarr Imam, Prophet Muhammad was Pir, Salman al-Farsi was Bab or Supreme Hujjah

In time of Nasir Kusraw, Imam Mustansir was Mustaqarr, Satgur Noor was the Pir, and Nasir Kusraw was the Bab

Nasir Kusraw was first one of the 24 Hujjahs, but he reached the level of the Bab and then officially took on this function.

There is a DIFFERENCE between the Pir and the Bab (Supreme Hujjat).
Pir MUSt come from the family of Ali, Bab can be any person, descent doesnt matter. Pir is higher than Bab.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:37 am

Sahebji tu morae mann bhave

This ginan is written by Syed Mohammed shah who existed within the last 150 years.

the son of Syed Imamshah is not the same as this one.

Shams

alinizar313 · Post by **alinizar313** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:15 pm

Thank You Kandani and Shamsu for clarification.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:17 pm

As far as i can remember, Nasir Khusraw and Varas Ismail Gangji were given title of pir by Mowlana Hazar Imam at the same time.

www.ismaili.net

Syed Imam Shah

Syed Imam Shah

Syed Imam Shah

Pir Nasir khusraw

syed Imam Shah

Re: syed Imam Shah

Sayed Imam Shah was Always an Ismaili

Sahebji tu morae mann bhave

Pir Nasir Khusraw and Pir Ismail Gangji