Ya Ali Madad.
Smile is blessing of God on humanity.
BY meditation the enlightenment of soul definitely reflects on mind and body.
it is a part of GOD (spark of Noor) in action in your body.
there are many over the mind, as for body over a period of time
1.It balances the growth of chromosomes which decreases the risk of Blood Cancer.
2.It make get one's facial mucles to get into smiling profile.
3.It get INNER glow over your skin.
plus there would many benefits like intake of more oxygen,migrane from yoga,etc.
If one can have picture of person in young age and if that person has practice of ibadat from say from last 30 years.
the facial expression of that person is moved more by soul than mind and temperament at that time.
Do some live study there.
Reading few dozen books is of low help ,but practice id most IMPORTANT.
In the end it is a result of practical acts and not academic reading
Mawlana Sultan Mohamed Shah and others on Meditation
As indicated by MSMS at the beginning of the thread, meditation means different things to different people and hence we have diversity of practices. This thread is to demonstrate this diversity and how the practice benefits people who do it. It is not plainly academic as you assume. The articles are written by people who have practiced it.nuseri wrote: Do some live study there.
Reading few dozen books is of low help ,but practice id most IMPORTANT.
In the end it is a result of practical acts and not academic reading
Follow the Threads — Mindful Awakening
When I started meditating in my teens, I believed in Enlightenment. I was going to get to the Big E, which involved having certain mind-blowing experiences. You’d see the Light, or God would open her kimono, or whatever, and after that you’d glow in the dark. I was super enthusiastic and worked really hard to do whatever I believed it took have those experiences. Months in caves in India. Pilgrimages to rivers, glaciers, and to the tops of mountains. Celibacy. Studying at the feet of masters wreathed in garlands of flowers. Mostly lots and lots of meditation.
This setup for an article usually now transitions into saying that all that was a waste, and that Awakening is always available in every moment without any of that stuff. But that’s not at all how I would describe what I’ve found. Instead, I feel like, Yes, awakening is available in every moment, especially if you’ve done lots and lots of meditation. Even all those rituals, austerities, and external forms were a big help in going deeper. Why?
The way I see it now, All roads lead to Rome. All sensory experiences lead to Awakening. If you contact the sensory experience of looking at a rock with enough attention, clarity, and openness, it will reveal the nature of all experience to you. If you contact the sensory experience of doing a religious ritual with enough attention, clarity, and openness, it will reveal the nature of all experience to you. If you contact the sensory experience of poking at your cellphone with enough attention, clarity, and openness, it will reveal the nature of all experience to you. It’s just in the nature of sensory experiences that if you look at them closely enough, they will turn into waves and then dissolve into pure consciousness. They are happening inside your brain, after all.
It’s like being Dorothy in Oz. Just pay attention to the “man behind the curtain” and the magic trick will fall apart, and show you the truth that underlies it. There is nothing in the world that won’t reveal the nature of awareness to you. It certainly doesn’t hurt that some experiences seem more beautiful, some seem more important, some seem extra-special, because any of those conditions may make you pay extra-close attention. Wonder, joy, extreme pain, total confusion — all of them will pique your interest, and are ready to unfold themselves before the gaze of your attention.
It can feel like being a kind of scientist, or maybe more like what used to be called a naturalist. Camping out for months in the bush to see what some interesting creature will do next. Let’s say a naturalist is observing a certain bird. Alert to all its habits and behaviors. What does it eat? How does it find a mate and build a nest? To where does it migrate? The naturalist draws pictures in her notebook of the bird, its activities, its habitat, the fruits and nuts it eats, and so on. Bringing this level of interest and attention to the bird, with great patience and forbearance, over and over again, maybe for many years, eventually allows the naturalist to deeply understand the bird. Or whatever other aspect of nature in which she is interested.
In the same way, the meditator gives all his attention to sensory experiences. At first they just seem normal, quotidian, even boring. Why pay so much attention to something so mundane? But if you push past this point—waiting just a little longer before binge-watching Game of Thrones episodes —something very interesting begins to happen. You start to notice the details, the nuances, the peculiarities. Going deeper, you see something unexpected—things are shifting, moving, changing. Something that seemed solid, isn’t. Something that seemed stationary, isn’t. Something that seemed permanent, isn’t. The sensory experience is revealing a deeper aspect of its nature: it is impermanent. A rigid object has become a wave of sensory activity, opening and spreading in ripples.
You are fascinated, your attention pegged to this unfolding insight. You stick with it, hanging loose, open, but alert as it undulates and radiates in your awareness. And then something very strange starts to happen. The ripples fall off a cliff. The activity vanishes. The waves have zero points where they just disappear and are gone. As you continue to watch, the goneness becomes more interesting than the wave activity, and the goneness expands and expands. It starts to feel like a huge magnet or a black hole, pulling you in. The sensory experiences of being a person, an “I”—mainly visual and verbal thoughts and physical body sensations—begin to display their wavelike nature, too. The very foundation of selfhood, which was previously rigid, static, permanent, now undulates, spreads, collapses, breathes, and flows. Even the experiences of vertigo, terror, or disoriention themselves are just vibratory activity in awareness, surging and crumbling like surf on the beach of an event horizon. The goneness has dissolved you into waves, and the waves themselves—shimmering, shaking, breaking, crashing, spraying—are over and over going to gone, gone, gone.
( )
After the nothing, things unfold slowly into awareness. A few scattered body sensations. External sounds. Eventually the waves of sensory experience rise and fall more rapidly, and one of them freezes into some kind of thought. The peace stretches out forever. You want to never move again. But you will, after a while, and eat your dinner or laugh with friends. There is no worry about this experience somehow going away. There is no concern that it can’t come back.
You are different now. Even as you grab a latte at Starbucks, you are fascinated and amused or even impatient or angry,at the display of the World, but you don’t believe it in the same way you used to. Even the person who is having these experiences is just part of the content of awareness. Just another fascinating display, like a laser light show.
The experience itself has shown you that every experience, every arising of sensory activity in the vast space of awareness, contains an opening. A key to reveal its own secret. It only wants to be known deeply enough. And if you give it that attention, that openness and patience, that loving acceptance, it will unfold, and show you the infinity in its heart.
There is no big E, not the way I thought of it way back when. There is only seeing that all those thoughts lead to infinity.
As I’m fond of saying, the world is like an old sweater. If you begin pulling on one of the threads, it will show you more of the thread. If you follow the thread diligently, tugging and pulling on it over and over, it will eventually unravel the whole sweater into nothing. Into an experience of Zero. That is the nature of every experience. It only awaits your loving awareness.
https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/fo ... awakening/
When I started meditating in my teens, I believed in Enlightenment. I was going to get to the Big E, which involved having certain mind-blowing experiences. You’d see the Light, or God would open her kimono, or whatever, and after that you’d glow in the dark. I was super enthusiastic and worked really hard to do whatever I believed it took have those experiences. Months in caves in India. Pilgrimages to rivers, glaciers, and to the tops of mountains. Celibacy. Studying at the feet of masters wreathed in garlands of flowers. Mostly lots and lots of meditation.
This setup for an article usually now transitions into saying that all that was a waste, and that Awakening is always available in every moment without any of that stuff. But that’s not at all how I would describe what I’ve found. Instead, I feel like, Yes, awakening is available in every moment, especially if you’ve done lots and lots of meditation. Even all those rituals, austerities, and external forms were a big help in going deeper. Why?
The way I see it now, All roads lead to Rome. All sensory experiences lead to Awakening. If you contact the sensory experience of looking at a rock with enough attention, clarity, and openness, it will reveal the nature of all experience to you. If you contact the sensory experience of doing a religious ritual with enough attention, clarity, and openness, it will reveal the nature of all experience to you. If you contact the sensory experience of poking at your cellphone with enough attention, clarity, and openness, it will reveal the nature of all experience to you. It’s just in the nature of sensory experiences that if you look at them closely enough, they will turn into waves and then dissolve into pure consciousness. They are happening inside your brain, after all.
It’s like being Dorothy in Oz. Just pay attention to the “man behind the curtain” and the magic trick will fall apart, and show you the truth that underlies it. There is nothing in the world that won’t reveal the nature of awareness to you. It certainly doesn’t hurt that some experiences seem more beautiful, some seem more important, some seem extra-special, because any of those conditions may make you pay extra-close attention. Wonder, joy, extreme pain, total confusion — all of them will pique your interest, and are ready to unfold themselves before the gaze of your attention.
It can feel like being a kind of scientist, or maybe more like what used to be called a naturalist. Camping out for months in the bush to see what some interesting creature will do next. Let’s say a naturalist is observing a certain bird. Alert to all its habits and behaviors. What does it eat? How does it find a mate and build a nest? To where does it migrate? The naturalist draws pictures in her notebook of the bird, its activities, its habitat, the fruits and nuts it eats, and so on. Bringing this level of interest and attention to the bird, with great patience and forbearance, over and over again, maybe for many years, eventually allows the naturalist to deeply understand the bird. Or whatever other aspect of nature in which she is interested.
In the same way, the meditator gives all his attention to sensory experiences. At first they just seem normal, quotidian, even boring. Why pay so much attention to something so mundane? But if you push past this point—waiting just a little longer before binge-watching Game of Thrones episodes —something very interesting begins to happen. You start to notice the details, the nuances, the peculiarities. Going deeper, you see something unexpected—things are shifting, moving, changing. Something that seemed solid, isn’t. Something that seemed stationary, isn’t. Something that seemed permanent, isn’t. The sensory experience is revealing a deeper aspect of its nature: it is impermanent. A rigid object has become a wave of sensory activity, opening and spreading in ripples.
You are fascinated, your attention pegged to this unfolding insight. You stick with it, hanging loose, open, but alert as it undulates and radiates in your awareness. And then something very strange starts to happen. The ripples fall off a cliff. The activity vanishes. The waves have zero points where they just disappear and are gone. As you continue to watch, the goneness becomes more interesting than the wave activity, and the goneness expands and expands. It starts to feel like a huge magnet or a black hole, pulling you in. The sensory experiences of being a person, an “I”—mainly visual and verbal thoughts and physical body sensations—begin to display their wavelike nature, too. The very foundation of selfhood, which was previously rigid, static, permanent, now undulates, spreads, collapses, breathes, and flows. Even the experiences of vertigo, terror, or disoriention themselves are just vibratory activity in awareness, surging and crumbling like surf on the beach of an event horizon. The goneness has dissolved you into waves, and the waves themselves—shimmering, shaking, breaking, crashing, spraying—are over and over going to gone, gone, gone.
( )
After the nothing, things unfold slowly into awareness. A few scattered body sensations. External sounds. Eventually the waves of sensory experience rise and fall more rapidly, and one of them freezes into some kind of thought. The peace stretches out forever. You want to never move again. But you will, after a while, and eat your dinner or laugh with friends. There is no worry about this experience somehow going away. There is no concern that it can’t come back.
You are different now. Even as you grab a latte at Starbucks, you are fascinated and amused or even impatient or angry,at the display of the World, but you don’t believe it in the same way you used to. Even the person who is having these experiences is just part of the content of awareness. Just another fascinating display, like a laser light show.
The experience itself has shown you that every experience, every arising of sensory activity in the vast space of awareness, contains an opening. A key to reveal its own secret. It only wants to be known deeply enough. And if you give it that attention, that openness and patience, that loving acceptance, it will unfold, and show you the infinity in its heart.
There is no big E, not the way I thought of it way back when. There is only seeing that all those thoughts lead to infinity.
As I’m fond of saying, the world is like an old sweater. If you begin pulling on one of the threads, it will show you more of the thread. If you follow the thread diligently, tugging and pulling on it over and over, it will eventually unravel the whole sweater into nothing. Into an experience of Zero. That is the nature of every experience. It only awaits your loving awareness.
https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/fo ... awakening/
Where the Rubber Meets the Road
By Joan Tollifson
Sometimes in the world of spirituality, people get the mistaken idea that thinking is bad, memory is bad, visualizing or planning the future is bad, imagination is bad, story-telling is bad, fantasy is bad, sensuality is bad, caring about the world is bad, money is bad, watching TV is bad, and so on. People get the idea that being awake or meditating or getting enlightened is about being in some continuous state of thoughtless awareness in which imagination has been banished and all sense of being a person has vanished. But this isn’t what I’m pointing to at all.
Yes, it is very important to see how thought can confuse us, to develop the ability to discern the difference between concepts and actuality, to be aware of how we do our suffering—how we reincarnate the mirage-like separate self through thinking and telling the story of me and my problems, and how it feels if we spend most of our time lost in memories or fantasies or regrets. It’s very helpful to be able to see when a story is enlightening us—as in a good movie or a poem or a teaching story—and when a story is just a form of suffering—as in when we’re lost in stories such as “I’m a failure” or “You ruined my life.” It’s helpful to discern when watching or reading the News is part of our responsibility as members of the human community to stay informed and when it becomes a way of scaring ourselves, solidifying our opinions, passing along destructive mental viruses, and stirring up anger and despair. It’s important to see when imagination and visualization and fantasy are creative, entertaining or enjoyable and when these are a way of generating more and more suffering.
We break reality up conceptually into apparently different “things” in order to see different aspects of reality more clearly—and in that way, we distinguish between thought, awareness, consciousness, sensation, perception, conceptualization, imagination, fantasy, and so on. It is helpful to make those distinctions. But in reality, the dividing lines are notional and none of these “things” actually exist as separate “things.” For example, if you look very closely at thoughts as they are happening, they seem ever-more ungraspable. They are bursts of energy with no clear boundary-line between that energy and the storylines and mental images they evoke and the awaring presence beholding it all. It is truly one whole undivided happening. So it’s fine to use the labels and the maps that thought draws, but it’s also important to be aware of how we get bamboozled by them. And when I say it’s important to be aware of that, I don’t mean having that as a new idea or a new belief, that “we easily get bamboozled by our thoughts and concepts,” but rather, I mean SEEING it as it happens, waking up on the spot.
We may spend time in meditation simply being present in silent stillness—not looking at our devices, not reading or writing or talking or watching TV or listening to music or doing tasks, and to whatever degree possible, not thinking or daydreaming, but simply being fully present and awake to the bare sensations and energies of this moment. And that’s a great thing to do, in my opinion. It’s good for the body and the mind, and it’s very helpful in noticing how it actually is Here / Now—cultivating the ability to see and disengage from the conceptual spin where humans often live most of our lives and waking up to the spacious, open, awaring presence that we truly are. Meditation is great. But obviously, we won’t spend our whole life sitting in silence.
And in everyday life, things naturally get messier. Lots of things happen at once. Phones ring, children cry, dogs bark, milk is spilled, tires go flat, deadlines press in on us, decisions are called for, words fly around in our heads and out loud. Memory colors perception, thinking and awaring and sensing all happen simultaneously. We might enjoy a good conversation that includes a mix of deep inquiry, open listening, gossip, story-telling, humor, while maybe simultaneously eating a meal and also hearing the birds singing and the traffic sounds and enjoying the beauty of the flowers in a vase on the table, and intermittently dealing with shrieking children who run in and out of the room. We may watch a movie, read a novel, go to a play, read our children a bedtime story, or watch the News—and for awhile we are transported into another world. And none of this needs to be pathologized or avoided. None of this is an obstacle.
Yes, it may be helpful to set aside time for meditation, or to go on a silent retreat, or to attend a satsang, or to take breaks from watching the News. But if we think that retreats are spiritual and watching TV is not, we are lost in dualistic ideas. Yes, it’s helpful to notice how things affect us—how we feel after watching TV, or after meditating, or after eating a certain food, or after having a few drinks, or after spending time with a certain friend. Being aware of how things affect us—noticing what things bring suffering in their wake and what things bring forth well-being—that is intelligent and helpful. But dividing it all up into good and bad, spiritual or not spiritual, and then trying to improve or perfect or fix “me”—that is not helpful.
Spirituality tends toward various form of imbalance: fundamentalism, dogmatism, puritanism, authoritarianism—and religion, which is fundamentally about realizing wholeness and love, has been used to justify all manner of wars, purges, crusades and acts of unbelievable cruelty, repression or abuse—and while it may be easy to spot many of these tendencies in the world’s dominant organized religions, these tendencies can happen in nonduality as well. They may take a subtler form in nonduality, but they can still happen. So it’s always good to stop and see where we have latched onto a conceptual formulation as if it were truth itself, where we are being dogmatic about our way of formulating things, where we have reified the ungraspable no-thing-ness, turning it into “something” that we can hold onto, where we have closed down the openness and intimacy of not knowing with the false certainty of belief and ideology, where we are caught up in a conceptual confusion over different maps.
We don’t really need to figure out how the universe works or what role the brain plays in consciousness or which comes first—the chicken or the egg, or what exactly happens or doesn’t happen after death, or whether there is or isn’t ever any kind of choice. We can think and reason and knot up our minds trying to logically figure such things out. But true nonduality doesn’t mistake any map for the territory, and it doesn’t land on one side of a conceptual divide or fixate on one position as opposed to another. Nonduality isn’t about getting the right beliefs, but rather, it is about waking up from belief and simply being awake Here / Now without holding to any ideas about what this is. Truth is in the open mind and the open heart, not in formulas or dogmas. Everything we say is always only a tentative approximation.
Beyond all such conceptual arguments, we can experience directly the living reality—the vibrant energy, the brightness of present experiencing, the spacious openness of presence-awareness, the ever-changing and ever-present Here / Now. We can discover the freedom of not being caught up in false ideas. We can feel the sense of well-being that comes from the recognition of wholeness and fluidity and no-thing-ness. We can experience the liberation of being awake to the simplicity of what is. We can see that everything is a happening of the seamless whole, that all of it is impersonal, that none of it means anything about the mirage-like “me.” We can recognize that life includes both pain and pleasure, joy and sorrow, and in that recognition, the search for a life of perpetual bliss can fall away along with our desperate quest to permanently rid ourselves of all uncertainty, confusion, upset, old habits, neurosis and pain—that search for a non-existent one-sided coin can finally end, and there can be a peace with how it actually is, knowing that it is always changing and that all of it is simply impersonal weather. We may also discover that in this very instant, there is a possibility of not going with the conditioned movement of habit and not resisting it either, but instead, simply being aware without doing anything at all. Being awareness. We can discover the transformative and healing power of awareness and unconditional love. And that’s what really matters. That’s where the rubber meets the road, as they say.
https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/?p ... st&p=98530
By Joan Tollifson
Sometimes in the world of spirituality, people get the mistaken idea that thinking is bad, memory is bad, visualizing or planning the future is bad, imagination is bad, story-telling is bad, fantasy is bad, sensuality is bad, caring about the world is bad, money is bad, watching TV is bad, and so on. People get the idea that being awake or meditating or getting enlightened is about being in some continuous state of thoughtless awareness in which imagination has been banished and all sense of being a person has vanished. But this isn’t what I’m pointing to at all.
Yes, it is very important to see how thought can confuse us, to develop the ability to discern the difference between concepts and actuality, to be aware of how we do our suffering—how we reincarnate the mirage-like separate self through thinking and telling the story of me and my problems, and how it feels if we spend most of our time lost in memories or fantasies or regrets. It’s very helpful to be able to see when a story is enlightening us—as in a good movie or a poem or a teaching story—and when a story is just a form of suffering—as in when we’re lost in stories such as “I’m a failure” or “You ruined my life.” It’s helpful to discern when watching or reading the News is part of our responsibility as members of the human community to stay informed and when it becomes a way of scaring ourselves, solidifying our opinions, passing along destructive mental viruses, and stirring up anger and despair. It’s important to see when imagination and visualization and fantasy are creative, entertaining or enjoyable and when these are a way of generating more and more suffering.
We break reality up conceptually into apparently different “things” in order to see different aspects of reality more clearly—and in that way, we distinguish between thought, awareness, consciousness, sensation, perception, conceptualization, imagination, fantasy, and so on. It is helpful to make those distinctions. But in reality, the dividing lines are notional and none of these “things” actually exist as separate “things.” For example, if you look very closely at thoughts as they are happening, they seem ever-more ungraspable. They are bursts of energy with no clear boundary-line between that energy and the storylines and mental images they evoke and the awaring presence beholding it all. It is truly one whole undivided happening. So it’s fine to use the labels and the maps that thought draws, but it’s also important to be aware of how we get bamboozled by them. And when I say it’s important to be aware of that, I don’t mean having that as a new idea or a new belief, that “we easily get bamboozled by our thoughts and concepts,” but rather, I mean SEEING it as it happens, waking up on the spot.
We may spend time in meditation simply being present in silent stillness—not looking at our devices, not reading or writing or talking or watching TV or listening to music or doing tasks, and to whatever degree possible, not thinking or daydreaming, but simply being fully present and awake to the bare sensations and energies of this moment. And that’s a great thing to do, in my opinion. It’s good for the body and the mind, and it’s very helpful in noticing how it actually is Here / Now—cultivating the ability to see and disengage from the conceptual spin where humans often live most of our lives and waking up to the spacious, open, awaring presence that we truly are. Meditation is great. But obviously, we won’t spend our whole life sitting in silence.
And in everyday life, things naturally get messier. Lots of things happen at once. Phones ring, children cry, dogs bark, milk is spilled, tires go flat, deadlines press in on us, decisions are called for, words fly around in our heads and out loud. Memory colors perception, thinking and awaring and sensing all happen simultaneously. We might enjoy a good conversation that includes a mix of deep inquiry, open listening, gossip, story-telling, humor, while maybe simultaneously eating a meal and also hearing the birds singing and the traffic sounds and enjoying the beauty of the flowers in a vase on the table, and intermittently dealing with shrieking children who run in and out of the room. We may watch a movie, read a novel, go to a play, read our children a bedtime story, or watch the News—and for awhile we are transported into another world. And none of this needs to be pathologized or avoided. None of this is an obstacle.
Yes, it may be helpful to set aside time for meditation, or to go on a silent retreat, or to attend a satsang, or to take breaks from watching the News. But if we think that retreats are spiritual and watching TV is not, we are lost in dualistic ideas. Yes, it’s helpful to notice how things affect us—how we feel after watching TV, or after meditating, or after eating a certain food, or after having a few drinks, or after spending time with a certain friend. Being aware of how things affect us—noticing what things bring suffering in their wake and what things bring forth well-being—that is intelligent and helpful. But dividing it all up into good and bad, spiritual or not spiritual, and then trying to improve or perfect or fix “me”—that is not helpful.
Spirituality tends toward various form of imbalance: fundamentalism, dogmatism, puritanism, authoritarianism—and religion, which is fundamentally about realizing wholeness and love, has been used to justify all manner of wars, purges, crusades and acts of unbelievable cruelty, repression or abuse—and while it may be easy to spot many of these tendencies in the world’s dominant organized religions, these tendencies can happen in nonduality as well. They may take a subtler form in nonduality, but they can still happen. So it’s always good to stop and see where we have latched onto a conceptual formulation as if it were truth itself, where we are being dogmatic about our way of formulating things, where we have reified the ungraspable no-thing-ness, turning it into “something” that we can hold onto, where we have closed down the openness and intimacy of not knowing with the false certainty of belief and ideology, where we are caught up in a conceptual confusion over different maps.
We don’t really need to figure out how the universe works or what role the brain plays in consciousness or which comes first—the chicken or the egg, or what exactly happens or doesn’t happen after death, or whether there is or isn’t ever any kind of choice. We can think and reason and knot up our minds trying to logically figure such things out. But true nonduality doesn’t mistake any map for the territory, and it doesn’t land on one side of a conceptual divide or fixate on one position as opposed to another. Nonduality isn’t about getting the right beliefs, but rather, it is about waking up from belief and simply being awake Here / Now without holding to any ideas about what this is. Truth is in the open mind and the open heart, not in formulas or dogmas. Everything we say is always only a tentative approximation.
Beyond all such conceptual arguments, we can experience directly the living reality—the vibrant energy, the brightness of present experiencing, the spacious openness of presence-awareness, the ever-changing and ever-present Here / Now. We can discover the freedom of not being caught up in false ideas. We can feel the sense of well-being that comes from the recognition of wholeness and fluidity and no-thing-ness. We can experience the liberation of being awake to the simplicity of what is. We can see that everything is a happening of the seamless whole, that all of it is impersonal, that none of it means anything about the mirage-like “me.” We can recognize that life includes both pain and pleasure, joy and sorrow, and in that recognition, the search for a life of perpetual bliss can fall away along with our desperate quest to permanently rid ourselves of all uncertainty, confusion, upset, old habits, neurosis and pain—that search for a non-existent one-sided coin can finally end, and there can be a peace with how it actually is, knowing that it is always changing and that all of it is simply impersonal weather. We may also discover that in this very instant, there is a possibility of not going with the conditioned movement of habit and not resisting it either, but instead, simply being aware without doing anything at all. Being awareness. We can discover the transformative and healing power of awareness and unconditional love. And that’s what really matters. That’s where the rubber meets the road, as they say.
https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/?p ... st&p=98530
Ya Ali Madad:
I need more info from scholars.
As observed that Shariatis try to act and mimic the prophet upto the size of his pyjamas and parting of hair.etc.
prophet got his status by meditating in the mount Hira caves for a fair amount of time in dark place in solitude or with few others.
Do Shariati overlook that act of meditation and how he qualified in the first place for revelations and prophethood ?
Do Shariatis have meditation to grow spiritually?
I need more info from scholars.
As observed that Shariatis try to act and mimic the prophet upto the size of his pyjamas and parting of hair.etc.
prophet got his status by meditating in the mount Hira caves for a fair amount of time in dark place in solitude or with few others.
Do Shariati overlook that act of meditation and how he qualified in the first place for revelations and prophethood ?
Do Shariatis have meditation to grow spiritually?
-
shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:
I need more info from scholars.
As observed that Shariatis try to act and mimic the prophet upto the size of his pyjamas and parting of hair.etc.
prophet got his status by meditating in the mount Hira caves for a fair amount of time in dark place in solitude or with few others.
Do Shariati overlook that act of meditation and how he qualified in the first place for revelations and prophethood ?
Do Shariatis have meditation to grow spiritually?
To enter in house of Tariqat and go upstairs to Haqiqat and Ma'rifat, one must have to enter through door of Shari'at.
Prophet said," ANA MADINATUL ILM WA ALIYYUN BABUHA", I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its door. Imam Ja'far said," NAHNU BAABULLAH", means we are the door to Allah. Du'a, Dasond, eid namaz, janaza namad, juma namaz, nikah, majalis, and other kariya karam are all Shari'ati. I do not understand why some community members are freaking with name Shari'at! Learn to live with it.
Ya Ali Madad.
I was looking foward reply on meditation as the topic suggest from a member who has unfortunately reclassified as shariati.
our act and progress has evolved.
we are born into tariqat.
I wish from 1959 is MHI used this word in farman,speeches or is mentioned in the constitution.
no Ginan extract of 700 years old needed of saying of imams from 1-48th.
we are living today with good understanding educated minds and not centuries back
a person born in Canada with that passport does need visa for 180 counties
and one with afghanistan passport need visas for almost all countries.
so canadian is not told to apply for all counties just because lower value country passport need that.
we follow SUFI TARIQA of with IMPORTANCE to Ibaadat,intellect and service to humanity.
this is a topic of meditation and need precise answer to my question
and side tracking.
Aim for haqiqat and marifat and break free of Junky chains of shariat(ages old rituals/acts/unrealistic beliefs) that is my prayer for humanity.
I was looking foward reply on meditation as the topic suggest from a member who has unfortunately reclassified as shariati.
our act and progress has evolved.
we are born into tariqat.
I wish from 1959 is MHI used this word in farman,speeches or is mentioned in the constitution.
no Ginan extract of 700 years old needed of saying of imams from 1-48th.
we are living today with good understanding educated minds and not centuries back
a person born in Canada with that passport does need visa for 180 counties
and one with afghanistan passport need visas for almost all countries.
so canadian is not told to apply for all counties just because lower value country passport need that.
we follow SUFI TARIQA of with IMPORTANCE to Ibaadat,intellect and service to humanity.
this is a topic of meditation and need precise answer to my question
and side tracking.
Aim for haqiqat and marifat and break free of Junky chains of shariat(ages old rituals/acts/unrealistic beliefs) that is my prayer for humanity.
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shivaathervedi
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nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad.
I was looking foward reply on meditation as the topic suggest from a member who has unfortunately reclassified as shariati.
our act and progress has evolved.
we are born into tariqat.
I wish from 1959 is MHI used this word in farman,speeches or is mentioned in the constitution.
no Ginan extract of 700 years old needed of saying of imams from 1-48th.
we are living today with good understanding educated minds and not centuries back
a person born in Canada with that passport does need visa for 180 counties
and one with afghanistan passport need visas for almost all countries.
so canadian is not told to apply for all counties just because lower value country passport need that.
we follow SUFI TARIQA of with IMPORTANCE to Ibaadat,intellect and service to humanity.
this is a topic of meditation and need precise answer to my question
and side tracking.
Aim for haqiqat and marifat and break free of Junky chains of shariat(ages old rituals/acts/unrealistic beliefs) that is my prayer for humanity.
Please read the farman book KIM, there are many general farmans on IBADAT and MEDITATION, OR READ B K FARMANS OF MSMS AND PRESENT IMAM.
Please mention farman in which Imam said Ismailis are born in TARIQAT.
The religious IQ of Ismailis few centuries back was better than the religious IQ of modern current educated minds.
DO YOU CONSIDER DU'A, DASOND, NAMAZ E JANAZA AND BURIAL, RECITATION OF GINANS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS KARYA KARAK ARE JUNKY AND UNREALISTIC? QUESTION ARISES OF YOURS BEING AN ISMAILI OR NOT?
What is certain is that the Imam said only Allah can judge and therefore people who are questioning who is Ismaili and who is not are doing Nafarmani and therefore they themselves may be drifting away from the Imam and from his religion, the Satpanth or the Sirat al Mustaqueem. I urge all of you to present your arguments without going into useless personal attacks and controversies.
According to the Farman of the Imam thet don't:nuseri wrote: Do Shariatis have meditation to grow spiritually?
"The reason I asked this question is that I want My spiritual children in the years ahead to understand the two concepts of Islam; the spiritual concept which is ours, and those of certain other branches of Islam, namely those who say no, there is no esoteric form to Islam, there is but an exoteric form." (Bombay, Nov 9 1967)
"Throughout the Jamat's history, including during the Fatimid times, a consistent feature of the Ismaili Tariqah has been the complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities. Examples of this are the historic co-existence between Namaz and Du'a, and the concept of private prayer and personal search, which has an important place in Islam, since it concerns the relationship of faith with life. It is in this light that, in Shia Ismaili Islam, the Imam-of-the-Time recognises a variety of prayers, tasbihs, Bait-ul-Khayal, Qaseedas, Ginans, by which an individual can submit to the Divine and protect himself or herself against the materialism of secular life, and the many other challenges of daily life." (13th Dec, 2008)nuseri wrote: I wish from 1959 is MHI used this word in farman,speeches or is mentioned in the constitution.
We have always had the complementarity between the Sharia and Tariqah practices. We can never get rid of the Sharia. So it is wrong to say that we do not observe the Sharia.
Now you are fudgingkmeherali
We have always had the complementarity between the Sharia and Tariqah practices. We can never get rid of the Sharia. So it is wrong to say that we do not observe the Sharia.
You do not pray traditional Salat, all Shia Sunni Muslim pray 5 Salat
You do not fast in Ramadan
You do not perform hajj instead claim that going to Jamaykhana is Hajj
You do not perform Wadu
So you did get rid of Islamic Shariat!
Note for resident bafoon
Your Imam says
"We can never get rid of the Sharia"
QED
[/b]
Prophet Muhammad's Meditation
It is known from historical accounts that before his prophetic illumination, the last Divine Messenger, Prophet Muhammad used to go to spiritual seclusions and extended retreats of meditation into Mouth Hira near Mecca. It is during one of such meditation retreats (in the holy month of Ramadan) in a defining moment of extra-cosmic enlightenment, Divine revelations started to reveal to him. The well-preserved collection of such Divine revelations later came to be known as Quran which literally means recitation because the Prophet following the inspirations, used to recite it to others including his companions.
Now, interestingly nobody surely knows about the exact method of meditation that Prophet Muhammad used in his very personal experience in Mount Hira. The aspect of meditation and its teaching was most probably passed down to very inner circle of elect companions such as Ali, Abu Bakr, Fatima etc. who are known for their more evolved and higher spiritual station. The validation of the previous statement can be derived from the historical fact that holy companions like Ali, Abu Bakr were able to reach elevated levels of intense concentration and super-conscious stages during their formal prayers, which signifies that they were taught the science of concentration (which basically meditation is).
Now Sufis or Muslim mystics preserved the tradition of meditation unlike the orthodox schools of Islam. Different Sufi groups have their different method of meditations transmitted from Prophet to his different elect companions. Prophet's meditation was and still is one of my most fascinating area of interest. Once in a conference I had the courage to ask Shaykh Hisham Muhammad Kabbani, the current spiritual master of distinguished Naqshbandi Order, whether the methods of Prophet's meditative experiences, specially in Hira mountain cave are recorded. The Shaykh replied, "nobody knows except Allah".
More: Above was partial copy paste from article on net
It is known from historical accounts that before his prophetic illumination, the last Divine Messenger, Prophet Muhammad used to go to spiritual seclusions and extended retreats of meditation into Mouth Hira near Mecca. It is during one of such meditation retreats (in the holy month of Ramadan) in a defining moment of extra-cosmic enlightenment, Divine revelations started to reveal to him. The well-preserved collection of such Divine revelations later came to be known as Quran which literally means recitation because the Prophet following the inspirations, used to recite it to others including his companions.
Now, interestingly nobody surely knows about the exact method of meditation that Prophet Muhammad used in his very personal experience in Mount Hira. The aspect of meditation and its teaching was most probably passed down to very inner circle of elect companions such as Ali, Abu Bakr, Fatima etc. who are known for their more evolved and higher spiritual station. The validation of the previous statement can be derived from the historical fact that holy companions like Ali, Abu Bakr were able to reach elevated levels of intense concentration and super-conscious stages during their formal prayers, which signifies that they were taught the science of concentration (which basically meditation is).
Now Sufis or Muslim mystics preserved the tradition of meditation unlike the orthodox schools of Islam. Different Sufi groups have their different method of meditations transmitted from Prophet to his different elect companions. Prophet's meditation was and still is one of my most fascinating area of interest. Once in a conference I had the courage to ask Shaykh Hisham Muhammad Kabbani, the current spiritual master of distinguished Naqshbandi Order, whether the methods of Prophet's meditative experiences, specially in Hira mountain cave are recorded. The Shaykh replied, "nobody knows except Allah".
More: Above was partial copy paste from article on net
From above post
So those who concentrate and are super conscious during Namaz are also meditatinghistorical fact that holy companions like Ali, Abu Bakr were able to reach elevated levels of intense concentration and super-conscious stages during their formal prayers, which signifies that they were taught the science of concentration (which basically meditation is).
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shivaathervedi
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zznoor wrote:From above post
So those who concentrate and are super conscious during Namaz are also meditatinghistorical fact that holy companions like Ali, Abu Bakr were able to reach elevated levels of intense concentration and super-conscious stages during their formal prayers, which signifies that they were taught the science of concentration (which basically meditation is).
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU(N)
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
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shivaathervedi
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Admin wrote:What is certain is that the Imam said only Allah can judge and therefore people who are questioning who is Ismaili and who is not are doing Nafarmani and therefore they themselves may be drifting away from the Imam and from his religion, the Satpanth or the Sirat al Mustaqueem. I urge all of you to present your arguments without going into useless personal attacks and controversies.
SHUKARAN LILLAH, you wrote, ONLY ALLAH CAN JUDGE, and it is a Farman,"
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shivaathervedi
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When we read history of Prophet Muhammad it is clear that in beginning he started meditation and not namaz. Namaz came after declaration of Islam by Prophet. In the beginning he ordered two raka'ts and gradually increased to 3,4 and finally 5; but under threats by non Muslims, during battles or in emergencies he ordered to cut number of raka'ts. Meditation still continued beside namazs and the proof is Ashaab e Sufa.
NOW AN IMPORTANT QUESTION; DURING MEDITATION WHAT ISM E AZAM HE RECITED?
NOW AN IMPORTANT QUESTION; DURING MEDITATION WHAT ISM E AZAM HE RECITED?
It is Ajampia Jaamp. There is discussion on this issue at:shivaathervedi wrote: NOW AN IMPORTANT QUESTION; DURING MEDITATION WHAT ISM E AZAM HE RECITED?
BAITULKHAYAL-BANDAGI WITHOUT BOL?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... c&start=15
You seem to get very excited when the Imam uses Allah either because it is a common expression or it does not give offence. However according to the constitution Imam h0as absolute authority over the governance of the Jamat:.shivaathervedi wrote:SHUKARAN LILLAH, you wrote, ONLY ALLAH CAN JUDGE, and it is a Farman,"
(H) By virtue of his office and in accordance with the faith and belief of the Ismaili Muslims, the Imam enjoys full authority of governance over and in respect of all religious and Jamati matters of the Ismaili Muslims.
Hence based on the above, he constantly makes judgements about who is fit for a particular position or seva. He does not leave it to Allah!
There no single perception of what the Sharia is. The are a variety of perceptions. I would like to refer you to a recent article published in the NYtimes:zznoor wrote:
Now you are fudging
You do not pray traditional Salat, all Shia Sunni Muslim pray 5 Salat
You do not fast in Ramadan
You do not perform hajj instead claim that going to Jamaykhana is Hajj
You do not perform Wadu
So you did get rid of Islamic Shariat!
Note for resident bafoon
Your Imam says
"We can never get rid of the Sharia"
QED
[/b]
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/opini ... 87722&_r=0
"Put simply, for believing Muslims, Shariah is the ideal realization of divine justice — a higher law reflecting God’s will.
Muslims have a wide range of different beliefs about what Shariah requires in practice. And all agree that humans are imperfect interpreters of God’s will.
.....
"In contrast, another Arabic word, “fiqh,” refers to the interpretation and application of Shariah in the real world. Fiqh is Islamic law as practiced by people. Because it’s a product of human reasoning used to understand God’s word, Islamic law is subject to debate and imperfection."
Hence the Islamic Law is evolving subject to fiqh. It is not unchanging.
Each Madhhab has it's own principles. Ismailis belong to Jafferia Madhhab which gives importance to the Qur'an and the guidance of Ahl al Bait.
It depends on from what standpoint one is looking at the issue. From a haqiqati standpoint for those who have attained the Haqiqat such as the Prophet, all actions are considered as a form of Ibadat - even the daily mundane activities such as eating and play.zznoor wrote: So those who concentrate and are super conscious during Namaz are also meditating
However most of us have not attained that level and live in a highly materialistic world and hence we need extra periods of meditation to derive strength hence the need for esoteric practices.
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shivaathervedi
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kmaherali wrote:You seem to get very excited when the Imam uses Allah either because it is a common expression or it does not give offence. However according to the constitution Imam h0as absolute authority over the governance of the Jamat:.shivaathervedi wrote:SHUKARAN LILLAH, you wrote, ONLY ALLAH CAN JUDGE, and it is a Farman,"
(H) By virtue of his office and in accordance with the faith and belief of the Ismaili Muslims, the Imam enjoys full authority of governance over and in respect of all religious and Jamati matters of the Ismaili Muslims.
Hence based on the above, he constantly makes judgements about who is fit for a particular position or seva. He does not leave it to Allah!
I am exited with the holy names of ALLAH, MUHAMMAD, ALI, HAZAR IMAM as prescribed in our holy Du'a and every true Ismaili should be exited to invoke these holy names. Yes, Imam has an authority to govern religious and jamaiti matters of Ismails ONLY but not whole Islamic world or human beings. This is not mentioned in Preamble H.
A CEO of a company or a Manager of an enterprise can select a proper person to run a company, or business, or an institution according to his judgement and do not ask God for his selection. Imam's authority mainly is in religious and spiritual matters because he is Noor of Mustafa and Murtaza.
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
kmaherali wrote:It is Ajampia Jaamp. There is discussion on this issue at:shivaathervedi wrote: NOW AN IMPORTANT QUESTION; DURING MEDITATION WHAT ISM E AZAM HE RECITED?
BAITULKHAYAL-BANDAGI WITHOUT BOL?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... c&start=15
Here we are discussing about Prophet and not an ordinary person. According to mysticism or sufi tariqa he should have got ISM E AZAM and not relied on just AJAMPIA JAA(N)MP a Satpunthi formula. He meditated not for just few months but that took many many years to create QUWAT E JIBRAILIYA ( power of Jibrael ) in him. WHO GRANTED HIM ISM E AZAM AND WHAT WAS THAT?
According to our understanding theProphet was born pure and Fanna. The purpose of his Ibadat in his childhood and youth was to impress the society about his integrity and discipline so that they could believe in what he conveyed to them.shivaathervedi wrote: Here we are discussing about Prophet and not an ordinary person. According to mysticism or sufi tariqa he should have got ISM E AZAM and not relied on just AJAMPIA JAA(N)MP a Satpunthi formula. He meditated not for just few months but that took many many years to create QUWAT E JIBRAILIYA ( power of Jibrael ) in him. WHO GRANTED HIM ISM E AZAM AND WHAT WAS THAT?
You are right, he was not an ordinary human being needing BOL for purification.
Even if he needed BOL he could get it from Hazarat Mutallib who was the Imam.
shivaathervedi wrote:You get excited when MHI mentions Allah because it gives you a proof that he is like us!kmaherali wrote:I am exited with the holy names of ALLAH, MUHAMMAD, ALI, HAZAR IMAM as prescribed in our holy Du'a and every true Ismaili should be exited to invoke these holy names. Yes, Imam has an authority to govern religious and jamaiti matters of Ismails ONLY but not whole Islamic world or human beings. This is not mentioned in Preamble H.shivaathervedi wrote:SHUKARAN LILLAH, you wrote, ONLY ALLAH CAN JUDGE, and it is a Farman,"
A CEO of a company or a Manager of an enterprise can select a proper person to run a company, or business, or an institution according to his judgement and do not ask God for his selection. Imam's authority mainly is in religious and spiritual matters because he is Noor of Mustafa and Murtaza.
I never implied that the Imam had authority for others. You cannot compare the function of the Imam with other CEOs. There is a vast difference.
The judgements that the Imam makes effects the physical spiritual lives of his murids. It is not simply about the material lives.
MHI used the owrd once in 59 years to clear the issue ONCE FOR ALL TIMES.
In this period He may has said the word tariqa may be 590 times.
"complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities."
reads the words carefully OUR tariqa (mean us) and those (not of us or opposites sides) THOSE who are shariatis.
MHI/ALI has made clear that there is no strong co realtion
and showed a fundamentmal difference between we tariqatis and those shariatis.
There should be classes on how to read and understand the farman at level 1,2 ,3 based on intellectual wave lenght of MHI.
on similar vocabulary in Quran Ali+lah=Allah.
said in Ayat ( i need to find that number)
for those to pray to him as unseen.it mean there mat also those who pray to him as seen."
quack never never never understood few word of the holy book.
same are word of ALI in his farmans.
99.9% of world pray to ALI as unseen with 350 different brand names and 0.10% haqiqatis amongst ismailis pray to ALI as hayul qayum( seen and alive).
these are blessed souls.
as there may be one person above wealth $10 million in 10000 person.
so is the blessed immense wealth& value of a haqiqati Soul 1 in 10000.
I feel more than 40% or more Ismailis are Haqiqatis in their belief.
others need strong Alwaez's or rebirths with progressions of their souls.
In this period He may has said the word tariqa may be 590 times.
"complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities."
reads the words carefully OUR tariqa (mean us) and those (not of us or opposites sides) THOSE who are shariatis.
MHI/ALI has made clear that there is no strong co realtion
and showed a fundamentmal difference between we tariqatis and those shariatis.
There should be classes on how to read and understand the farman at level 1,2 ,3 based on intellectual wave lenght of MHI.
on similar vocabulary in Quran Ali+lah=Allah.
said in Ayat ( i need to find that number)
for those to pray to him as unseen.it mean there mat also those who pray to him as seen."
quack never never never understood few word of the holy book.
same are word of ALI in his farmans.
99.9% of world pray to ALI as unseen with 350 different brand names and 0.10% haqiqatis amongst ismailis pray to ALI as hayul qayum( seen and alive).
these are blessed souls.
as there may be one person above wealth $10 million in 10000 person.
so is the blessed immense wealth& value of a haqiqati Soul 1 in 10000.
I feel more than 40% or more Ismailis are Haqiqatis in their belief.
others need strong Alwaez's or rebirths with progressions of their souls.
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ismaili103
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shivaathervedi
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kmaherali wrote:shivaathervedi wrote:You get excited when MHI mentions Allah because it gives you a proof that he is like us!kmaherali wrote: I am exited with the holy names of ALLAH, MUHAMMAD, ALI, HAZAR IMAM as prescribed in our holy Du'a and every true Ismaili should be exited to invoke these holy names. Yes, Imam has an authority to govern religious and jamaiti matters of Ismails ONLY but not whole Islamic world or human beings. This is not mentioned in Preamble H.
A CEO of a company or a Manager of an enterprise can select a proper person to run a company, or business, or an institution according to his judgement and do not ask God for his selection. Imam's authority mainly is in religious and spiritual matters because he is Noor of Mustafa and Murtaza.
I never implied that the Imam had authority for others. You cannot compare the function of the Imam with other CEOs. There is a vast difference.
The judgements that the Imam makes effects the physical spiritual lives of his murids. It is not simply about the material lives.
You got it. It is not the question of excitement but the TRUTH by Imam. When he says Allah during farman means he is talking about other entity. MSMS had used the word ALLAH many times in farmans, Please consult KIM.
You wrote," I never implied that the Imam had authority for others." My question is if he has no authority on others ( 7+ billions human beings ) means you limited his authority, where as Ismailis believe he is Imam of universe.
They use Allah either because it is a common expression or because it does not give offence or because they are also the Pirs. We know for sure that they are the Mazhar/Hujjat. We know that they are the Malikinaas hence illahinaas. We know that the Imam was sahi Allah during MSMS's time.shivaathervedi wrote:You got it. It is not the question of excitement but the TRUTH by Imam. When he says Allah during farman means he is talking about other entity. MSMS had used the word ALLAH many times in farmans, Please consult KIM.
It is a matter of using common sense.
From a material point of view he has authority over his murids only, but from the spiritual point of view he has authority over the entire creation.shivaathervedi wrote: You wrote," I never implied that the Imam had authority for others." My question is if he has no authority on others ( 7+ billions human beings ) means you limited his authority, where as Ismailis believe he is Imam of universe.
Just as Allah in the Qur'an has authority over the entire creation regardless of whether you are a believer or not.