yam!
we all have heard in various ginans that 5 crore attained salvation in the first yug 7 crore in second yug 9 crore in third yug and 12 crore in the last yug and countless in the last phase.
i was thinking from where did these figurse come from?? are these figures present in the hindu scriptures?? and if not and if pir from his own knowldege stated that these many people have attained salvation in these yugs than is it pre-determined that only 12 crore will pass thru in the kaljug?? not one more nor one less!! and if it is pre-determined than destiny rules where is ma own will?? is it not in ma hand and actions whether i recieve the salvation or not??
Also imam islam shah gave the title 12 crore to pir sadardin and anant crore to pir hasan kabiridin y not 14 crore 16 crore or 100 crore y 12 crore??
581. The first advice I have is: Accept Ali as the Creator for indeed He is my everything.
582. Go Pir Hasan Kabirdin (says Imam Shah) and tell people about the 5, 7, 9 and 12 Karor infinite souls that have achieved salvation.
583. Tell them about the infinite souls for which you are responsible, and the 48 Karor who are close to Ali. So those people who will follow the right path will be saved by Ali.
the above is from the granth moman chetamni by syed imam shah what i wana ask is what does 48 crore refer to??
i know i have asked too many questions at once but i hope someone will comeup with the answers :)
12 crore
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mehboobmehdi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:11 pm
kmaherali:
"The way I understand it is that if you have done Baiyat of the Guide, the chance of salvation is 45/48, but you still have to work for the rest i.e. 3/48. It does not mean that if the Guide has accepted to intercede for you, you are automatically saved! You still have to follow him and therefore Peer Hassan Kabirdeen tells us to be vigilant about it. Once the Guide has accepted you as His murid the chance of salvation is 45/48 (94%). You are almost there! Salvation is much easier if you follow the Guide."
Excellent point!!
Like wise in karta jug 5 crore out of 15 crore got salvation due to king pahelaj and in treta jug 7 crore out of 21 crore got salvation due to harishchandar and in dwapar jug 9 crore out of 27 crore got salvation due to jujeshtan and in kal jug 12 crore out of 36 crore got salvaion due to pir sadardin so the ratio is 1/3 (33%) than how did it in increase in last satge 45/48 (94%)??
may be it is because it is the most diificult satge and Mowla is rehman and like it is mention in the ginans that the reward of goodness will be much greater in the last stage since it is the most diificult. 
But my question still remains in it's place why 12 crore?? if it simple was ratio than it could have been 15 out of 45 or 10 out of 30 y 12 or 9 or 7 or 5?? however i very much agree with the ratio stuff but still y 12,9,7,5??
Also, shirazkali:
"here are some verses from the ginan. i need an interpretation of this ginan. who are these "fourty eight crore". they will not be questioned by Pir Hassan Kabirddin from the "Anant Crore."
ejee anatnaa mellaa maa(n)he addataalees karodd
te maa(n)he thee peestaaleesku(n) lekhaa nahee
puchhaannaa(n)
- ebee
................128
There will be forty eight crores in the gathering of
the countless. Out of these the forty five crores will
not be questioned.
ejee baakee trann karoddku(n) lekhaa puchhshe
tyaare dukh dohyalaa cheto moman bhaai -
ebee..............129
The remaining three crores will be questioned about
their deeds. At that moment it will be difficult and
unfortunate time so be vigilant about this. "
but but but im sooooo confused above it is stated that 45 out of 48 will go throgh now read this: (moman chetamani)
571. Infinite souls have been blessed because of you, of which 48 Karor will come to My door, led by you; Indeed you are a good man. When the (final) Great Day arrives, Pir and Prophet will be the leaders and I will be there in Arabic (human) Avtar and judgement will (..... check).
583. Tell them about the infinite souls for which you are responsible, and the 48 Karor who are close to Ali. So those people who will follow the right path will be saved by Ali.
622. Despite listening to my preaching, if you still deny the existence of Living Imam, then you will be amongst the 45 Karor misguided whom Pir Hasan Kabirdin will not take with him.
623. These 45 Karor are the ones who have turned a deaf ear to our teachings, deny Ali's existence and have not paid their Dasond.
??? any body with any idea
Also, can someone plz give me the translation of Anant Crore??
"The way I understand it is that if you have done Baiyat of the Guide, the chance of salvation is 45/48, but you still have to work for the rest i.e. 3/48. It does not mean that if the Guide has accepted to intercede for you, you are automatically saved! You still have to follow him and therefore Peer Hassan Kabirdeen tells us to be vigilant about it. Once the Guide has accepted you as His murid the chance of salvation is 45/48 (94%). You are almost there! Salvation is much easier if you follow the Guide."
Excellent point!!
Like wise in karta jug 5 crore out of 15 crore got salvation due to king pahelaj and in treta jug 7 crore out of 21 crore got salvation due to harishchandar and in dwapar jug 9 crore out of 27 crore got salvation due to jujeshtan and in kal jug 12 crore out of 36 crore got salvaion due to pir sadardin so the ratio is 1/3 (33%) than how did it in increase in last satge 45/48 (94%)??
may be it is because it is the most diificult satge and Mowla is rehman and like it is mention in the ginans that the reward of goodness will be much greater in the last stage since it is the most diificult. But my question still remains in it's place why 12 crore?? if it simple was ratio than it could have been 15 out of 45 or 10 out of 30 y 12 or 9 or 7 or 5?? however i very much agree with the ratio stuff but still y 12,9,7,5??Also, shirazkali:
"here are some verses from the ginan. i need an interpretation of this ginan. who are these "fourty eight crore". they will not be questioned by Pir Hassan Kabirddin from the "Anant Crore."
ejee anatnaa mellaa maa(n)he addataalees karodd
te maa(n)he thee peestaaleesku(n) lekhaa nahee
puchhaannaa(n)
- ebee
................128
There will be forty eight crores in the gathering of
the countless. Out of these the forty five crores will
not be questioned.
ejee baakee trann karoddku(n) lekhaa puchhshe
tyaare dukh dohyalaa cheto moman bhaai -
ebee..............129
The remaining three crores will be questioned about
their deeds. At that moment it will be difficult and
unfortunate time so be vigilant about this. "
but but but im sooooo confused above it is stated that 45 out of 48 will go throgh now read this: (moman chetamani)571. Infinite souls have been blessed because of you, of which 48 Karor will come to My door, led by you; Indeed you are a good man. When the (final) Great Day arrives, Pir and Prophet will be the leaders and I will be there in Arabic (human) Avtar and judgement will (..... check).
583. Tell them about the infinite souls for which you are responsible, and the 48 Karor who are close to Ali. So those people who will follow the right path will be saved by Ali.
622. Despite listening to my preaching, if you still deny the existence of Living Imam, then you will be amongst the 45 Karor misguided whom Pir Hasan Kabirdin will not take with him.
623. These 45 Karor are the ones who have turned a deaf ear to our teachings, deny Ali's existence and have not paid their Dasond.
??? any body with any idea
Also, can someone plz give me the translation of Anant Crore??
Are these ratios 5/15, 7/21, 9/27 quoted in any Ginan? I have not come across any. My understanding of 48 crores is the total number of saved ones. These would be 33 crores + 15 crores from Pir Hassan Kabirdeen's grace. If you are amongst these 48 crores then your chance is 45/48 of salvation - just to make you aware of the work required!mehboobmehdi wrote: Like wise in karta jug 5 crore out of 15 crore got salvation due to king pahelaj and in treta jug 7 crore out of 21 crore got salvation due to harishchandar and in dwapar jug 9 crore out of 27 crore got salvation due to jujeshtan and in kal jug 12 crore out of 36 crore got salvaion due to pir sadardin so the ratio is 1/3 (33%) than how did it in increase in last satge 45/48 (94%)??
All Pirs have consistently used these figures of 5,7,9, 12 . They must have had a reason which is not very apparent.
Anant Crore in this context means those who will be in the gathering of the saved ones or those who have done Baiyat of the Peer. They would be 48 crores.mehboobmehdi wrote: Also, shirazkali:
"here are some verses from the ginan. i need an interpretation of this ginan. who are these "fourty eight crore". they will not be questioned by Pir Hassan Kabirddin from the "Anant Crore."
The 45 are those who will not be saved. I think the exact numbers should not matter. What should matter is the fact that there are the two kinds of souls; those that will be saved and those who will not be saved.mehboobmehdi wrote:
571. Infinite souls have been blessed because of you, of which 48 Karor will come to My door, led by you; Indeed you are a good man. When the (final) Great Day arrives, Pir and Prophet will be the leaders and I will be there in Arabic (human) Avtar and judgement will (..... check).
583. Tell them about the infinite souls for which you are responsible, and the 48 Karor who are close to Ali. So those people who will follow the right path will be saved by Ali.
622. Despite listening to my preaching, if you still deny the existence of Living Imam, then you will be amongst the 45 Karor misguided whom Pir Hasan Kabirdin will not take with him.
623. These 45 Karor are the ones who have turned a deaf ear to our teachings, deny Ali's existence and have not paid their Dasond.
??? any body with any idea
Also, can someone plz give me the translation of Anant Crore??