The Ginan is frequently recited during deedars. Do you think the Imam would allow that tohappen if it was not appropriate?junglikhan4 wrote:
Was Sayyid Muhammad Shah a pir? He left Ismaili tariqa, How come his ginans are allowed to be recited in JK's. Is this with approval of Imam?
IMAMAT Proofs of existence and need for Imamat
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junglikhan4
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kmaherali wrote:The Ginan is frequently recited during deedars. Do you think the Imam would allow that tohappen if it was not appropriate?junglikhan4 wrote:
Was Sayyid Muhammad Shah a pir? He left Ismaili tariqa, How come his ginans are allowed to be recited in JK's. Is this with approval of Imam?
Reply,
During discussion, I was told by a missionary that at time of didaar, after Quran being recited only ginans of recognized pirs should be recited.
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junglikhan4
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Reply,Admin wrote:In the list of Ginans approved and printed during the time of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah there are ginans of Pir and ginans of Sayyeds...
During 1992-1994, 4 volumes of ginans were printed, each book containing 50 ginans, total 200 ginans by ITREB Karachi for reciting in JK and for benefit of jamaits. In these 200 ginans they have not added "Sahebji tu morey mon bhawey " by sayyid Noor Muhammad shah. This is for your information.
It is in the Vol 5 Ginan no 50. The books published by Alwaez Kamaluddin of ITREB Pakistan. There are now 9 volumes out!junglikhan4 wrote: During 1992-1994, 4 volumes of ginans were printed, each book containing 50 ginans, total 200 ginans by ITREB Karachi for reciting in JK and for benefit of jamaits. In these 200 ginans they have not added "Sahebji tu morey mon bhawey " by sayyid Noor Muhammad shah. This is for your information.
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mahebubchatur
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Imam and Imamat
Imam and Imamat : further clarification shared. Shukhr
Ta'wil of word 'Itâ'ah' (Obedience to God, the Prophet and the Imam):
"The holy Prophet said to Hazrat Ali: "He who obeys me, indeed obeys Allah and he who disobeys me, indeed disobeys Allah and he who obeys you, indeed obeys me and he who disobeys you, indeed disobeys me." (al-Mustradrak, III, 121).
This Hadith is an exegesis of verse (4:59) about obedience." [Source: Tawil 76: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Uli'l-amr' (The custodians of the Divine commands, the true Imams):
"Verse (4:59) says: "O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and the ulu'l-amr from amongst you." That is, in addition to Allah and the Prophet, obedience to the Imam from the progeny of the Prophet, whose Imamat is established from the Qur'an and Hadith, is obligatory.
Contrary to this, world kings and rulers cannot be the ulu'l-amr, nor is any example of them found in the age of Prophethood, the ideal age of Islam.
In the same surah in verse (4:54) there is mention of giving of the Book, the wisdom and a great kingdom to the Progeny of Ibrahim and here, according to the context of the subject, by progeny of Ibrahim are meant to be Muhammad (s.a.s.) and his progeny." [Source:
Tawil 133: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Kullu shay'in' (Everything, all things):
"The wise Qur'an is the perfect and complete Book in whose exoteric and esoteric aspects there is explanation of everything (16:89).
The magnificent and unique principle which is the treasure of its heart cannot be praised by us human beings and that universal principle full of quintessence (i.e., the pure, highly concentrated essence) of wisdom is: "And We have encompassed everything in a manifest Imam." (36:12).
That is, all spiritual and intellectual subtle things of the kingdom of God can be found gathered and enfolded in the manifest Imam, provided someone recognizes himself or herself." [Source: Tawil 732: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ayat' (The luminous personality of the Imam in which all signs are encompassed):
"Mawlâ Ali has said: "Anâ âyâtu'llâhi wa aminu'llâh, i.e. I am Allah's signs and I am the trustworthy of Allah." (Kawkab, p.208). Âyât in the sense of the signs of Divine power or miracles, are in four places:
(i) The higher world, (ii) the wise Qur'ân, (iii) the external universe and (iv) the personal world, but according to the Qur'ân (36:12) all these âyât (signs) are encompassed in the light of the Imâm-i Mubin.
That is, his light is the higher world, he is the speaking Qur'ân, the quintessence of the universe and a luminious personal world in true sense." [Source: Tawil 10: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ahsâ' (He has encompassed them):
"It is said in verse (78:29): "And We have encompassed everything in (the form of) a book."
The meaning of everything cannot be complete without intellects and souls, nor can a merely silent book possess all intellectual and spiritual (moving) things.
Therefore, it is true to say that this is a description of the speaking book, i.e., the Imâm-i mubîn" [Source: Tawil 33: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ma'a'l-Qur'ân' (With the Qur'ân):
"Externally Ali (Imam of the time) is a pure personality and internally a light. Externally, the Qur'ân is a glorious heavenly Book and internally (in the Prophet and the Imam) it is light.
This shows that externally Ali and Qur'ân are separate from each other, but internally they are not only together, they are one light." [Source: Tawil 820: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ma'a'l-Qur'ân' (With the Qur'ân):
"It is said in Hadith: "Ali is with the Qur'ân and the Qur'ân is with Ali, they will never separate from each other until they come to me at the pond (of Kawthar)." (Yanâbi, p. 103).
The wisdom of this is that Ali (i.e., every true Imam) in his spirituality and luminosity is with the Qur'ân and the Qur'ân in its spirituality and luminosity is with Ali.
Thus, the Qur'ân and Ali are one light in spirituality and this oneness will continue until the resurrection takes place and they come to the pond of Kawthar." [Source: Tawil 819: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Hâdin' (Guide, Imâm):
"It is said in verse (13:7): "Verily you are a warner, and to every nation (qawm) there is a guide." (See Shi'i translations and commentaries of the Qurân and the books on the Manâqib of Mawla Ali).
From the time of Âdam till the Resurrection of resurrections, the people of every age are a nation and for every nation God has appointed a guide, who is the Imam of the time." [Source: Tawil 940: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Yastanbitûna' (They deduce, discover, they do istinbâat):
"Istinbâat primarily means "to dig a well and bring out water for the first time". Secondarily it is used in the sense of thinking, reflection, to penetrate deeply (Qâmûs, p. 77). For instance, istanbata'sh-shay' means to reveal a thing from its hidden state.
Verse (4:83), in which it is used, clearly means that after the holy Prophet, it is the ulu'l-amr, the JUST Imams from the progeny of the holy Prophet, who bring out the inner meaning of the Qur'ânic verses, because it is they who know the ta'wil (inner meaning) of the Qur'ân." [Source:
Tawil 980: A Thousand Wisdoms] ..NOT anyone or everyone....even if they are siblings or part of the family....this Right is not based on any biological or family ties only though its critical...and so if one examines the ayah relevant to the covenant made with Abraham...Allah is clear that NOT all Posterity of Abraham will be Imams....it all depends on which kind of "rulership" you are talking about...in Islam there exists two forms of governance...Islam is both Din and Duniya ! The Imam can be both...but he secular leader or ruler cannot ever be The Imam....and so there is a spiritual Kingdom and a Worldly Kingdom....they are separate...Nabi also was a Ruler during his time...and also Nabi and also Rasool and also the "Imam" as Abraham's posterity was given this "favour" as per Allah's covenant with Abraham...
MY COVENANT REACHES NOT THE ZALIMUN" AND thus EXCLUDED !
Ta'wil of word 'Muslimah' (The community of the pure Imams):
"A true Muslim is the one who submits himself to God. In this sense, Hazrat Ibrâhîm and Hazrat Ismâil prayed: "Our Lord! Make us submitters to You and of our progeny a submitting community (ummatan muslimah) to You (by true obedience)." (2:128). This shows that ummatan muslimah is the community of the pure Imâms who are the progeny of Hazrat Ibrâhîm and Hazrat Ismâil (See Daâ'im, I, 33). " [Source: Tawil 812: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Madînat al-ilm' (The city of knowledge):
"It is stated in Hadith: " I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate, so whoever wants knowledge let him come through the gate." (Sharh, I, 89). That is, whoever wants the treasures of the knowledge of certainty, the eye of certainty, and the truth of certainty, then it is necessary and imperative for him to enter the city of knowledge of the Prophet by walking in the light of the unprecedented guidance of the Ali of the time." [Source: Tawil 804: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Itâ'ah' (Obedience to God, the Prophet and the Imam):
"The holy Prophet said to Hazrat Ali: "He who obeys me, indeed obeys Allah and he who disobeys me, indeed disobeys Allah and he who obeys you, indeed obeys me and he who disobeys you, indeed disobeys me." (al-Mustradrak, III, 121).
This Hadith is an exegesis of verse (4:59) about obedience." [Source: Tawil 76: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Uli'l-amr' (The custodians of the Divine commands, the true Imams):
"Verse (4:59) says: "O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and the ulu'l-amr from amongst you." That is, in addition to Allah and the Prophet, obedience to the Imam from the progeny of the Prophet, whose Imamat is established from the Qur'an and Hadith, is obligatory.
Contrary to this, world kings and rulers cannot be the ulu'l-amr, nor is any example of them found in the age of Prophethood, the ideal age of Islam.
In the same surah in verse (4:54) there is mention of giving of the Book, the wisdom and a great kingdom to the Progeny of Ibrahim and here, according to the context of the subject, by progeny of Ibrahim are meant to be Muhammad (s.a.s.) and his progeny." [Source:
Tawil 133: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Kullu shay'in' (Everything, all things):
"The wise Qur'an is the perfect and complete Book in whose exoteric and esoteric aspects there is explanation of everything (16:89).
The magnificent and unique principle which is the treasure of its heart cannot be praised by us human beings and that universal principle full of quintessence (i.e., the pure, highly concentrated essence) of wisdom is: "And We have encompassed everything in a manifest Imam." (36:12).
That is, all spiritual and intellectual subtle things of the kingdom of God can be found gathered and enfolded in the manifest Imam, provided someone recognizes himself or herself." [Source: Tawil 732: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ayat' (The luminous personality of the Imam in which all signs are encompassed):
"Mawlâ Ali has said: "Anâ âyâtu'llâhi wa aminu'llâh, i.e. I am Allah's signs and I am the trustworthy of Allah." (Kawkab, p.208). Âyât in the sense of the signs of Divine power or miracles, are in four places:
(i) The higher world, (ii) the wise Qur'ân, (iii) the external universe and (iv) the personal world, but according to the Qur'ân (36:12) all these âyât (signs) are encompassed in the light of the Imâm-i Mubin.
That is, his light is the higher world, he is the speaking Qur'ân, the quintessence of the universe and a luminious personal world in true sense." [Source: Tawil 10: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ahsâ' (He has encompassed them):
"It is said in verse (78:29): "And We have encompassed everything in (the form of) a book."
The meaning of everything cannot be complete without intellects and souls, nor can a merely silent book possess all intellectual and spiritual (moving) things.
Therefore, it is true to say that this is a description of the speaking book, i.e., the Imâm-i mubîn" [Source: Tawil 33: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ma'a'l-Qur'ân' (With the Qur'ân):
"Externally Ali (Imam of the time) is a pure personality and internally a light. Externally, the Qur'ân is a glorious heavenly Book and internally (in the Prophet and the Imam) it is light.
This shows that externally Ali and Qur'ân are separate from each other, but internally they are not only together, they are one light." [Source: Tawil 820: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ma'a'l-Qur'ân' (With the Qur'ân):
"It is said in Hadith: "Ali is with the Qur'ân and the Qur'ân is with Ali, they will never separate from each other until they come to me at the pond (of Kawthar)." (Yanâbi, p. 103).
The wisdom of this is that Ali (i.e., every true Imam) in his spirituality and luminosity is with the Qur'ân and the Qur'ân in its spirituality and luminosity is with Ali.
Thus, the Qur'ân and Ali are one light in spirituality and this oneness will continue until the resurrection takes place and they come to the pond of Kawthar." [Source: Tawil 819: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Hâdin' (Guide, Imâm):
"It is said in verse (13:7): "Verily you are a warner, and to every nation (qawm) there is a guide." (See Shi'i translations and commentaries of the Qurân and the books on the Manâqib of Mawla Ali).
From the time of Âdam till the Resurrection of resurrections, the people of every age are a nation and for every nation God has appointed a guide, who is the Imam of the time." [Source: Tawil 940: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Yastanbitûna' (They deduce, discover, they do istinbâat):
"Istinbâat primarily means "to dig a well and bring out water for the first time". Secondarily it is used in the sense of thinking, reflection, to penetrate deeply (Qâmûs, p. 77). For instance, istanbata'sh-shay' means to reveal a thing from its hidden state.
Verse (4:83), in which it is used, clearly means that after the holy Prophet, it is the ulu'l-amr, the JUST Imams from the progeny of the holy Prophet, who bring out the inner meaning of the Qur'ânic verses, because it is they who know the ta'wil (inner meaning) of the Qur'ân." [Source:
Tawil 980: A Thousand Wisdoms] ..NOT anyone or everyone....even if they are siblings or part of the family....this Right is not based on any biological or family ties only though its critical...and so if one examines the ayah relevant to the covenant made with Abraham...Allah is clear that NOT all Posterity of Abraham will be Imams....it all depends on which kind of "rulership" you are talking about...in Islam there exists two forms of governance...Islam is both Din and Duniya ! The Imam can be both...but he secular leader or ruler cannot ever be The Imam....and so there is a spiritual Kingdom and a Worldly Kingdom....they are separate...Nabi also was a Ruler during his time...and also Nabi and also Rasool and also the "Imam" as Abraham's posterity was given this "favour" as per Allah's covenant with Abraham...
MY COVENANT REACHES NOT THE ZALIMUN" AND thus EXCLUDED !
Ta'wil of word 'Muslimah' (The community of the pure Imams):
"A true Muslim is the one who submits himself to God. In this sense, Hazrat Ibrâhîm and Hazrat Ismâil prayed: "Our Lord! Make us submitters to You and of our progeny a submitting community (ummatan muslimah) to You (by true obedience)." (2:128). This shows that ummatan muslimah is the community of the pure Imâms who are the progeny of Hazrat Ibrâhîm and Hazrat Ismâil (See Daâ'im, I, 33). " [Source: Tawil 812: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Madînat al-ilm' (The city of knowledge):
"It is stated in Hadith: " I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate, so whoever wants knowledge let him come through the gate." (Sharh, I, 89). That is, whoever wants the treasures of the knowledge of certainty, the eye of certainty, and the truth of certainty, then it is necessary and imperative for him to enter the city of knowledge of the Prophet by walking in the light of the unprecedented guidance of the Ali of the time." [Source: Tawil 804: A Thousand Wisdoms]
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junglikhan4
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:09 pm
Re: Imam and Imamat
mahebubchatur wrote:Imam and Imamat : further clarification shared. Shukhr
Ta'wil of word 'Itâ'ah' (Obedience to God, the Prophet and the Imam):
"The holy Prophet said to Hazrat Ali: "He who obeys me, indeed obeys Allah and he who disobeys me, indeed disobeys Allah and he who obeys you, indeed obeys me and he who disobeys you, indeed disobeys me." (al-Mustradrak, III, 121).
This Hadith is an exegesis of verse (4:59) about obedience." [Source: Tawil 76: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Uli'l-amr' (The custodians of the Divine commands, the true Imams):
"Verse (4:59) says: "O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and the ulu'l-amr from amongst you." That is, in addition to Allah and the Prophet, obedience to the Imam from the progeny of the Prophet, whose Imamat is established from the Qur'an and Hadith, is obligatory.
Contrary to this, world kings and rulers cannot be the ulu'l-amr, nor is any example of them found in the age of Prophethood, the ideal age of Islam.
In the same surah in verse (4:54) there is mention of giving of the Book, the wisdom and a great kingdom to the Progeny of Ibrahim and here, according to the context of the subject, by progeny of Ibrahim are meant to be Muhammad (s.a.s.) and his progeny." [Source:
Tawil 133: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Kullu shay'in' (Everything, all things):
"The wise Qur'an is the perfect and complete Book in whose exoteric and esoteric aspects there is explanation of everything (16:89).
The magnificent and unique principle which is the treasure of its heart cannot be praised by us human beings and that universal principle full of quintessence (i.e., the pure, highly concentrated essence) of wisdom is: "And We have encompassed everything in a manifest Imam." (36:12).
That is, all spiritual and intellectual subtle things of the kingdom of God can be found gathered and enfolded in the manifest Imam, provided someone recognizes himself or herself." [Source: Tawil 732: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ayat' (The luminous personality of the Imam in which all signs are encompassed):
"Mawlâ Ali has said: "Anâ âyâtu'llâhi wa aminu'llâh, i.e. I am Allah's signs and I am the trustworthy of Allah." (Kawkab, p.208). Âyât in the sense of the signs of Divine power or miracles, are in four places:
(i) The higher world, (ii) the wise Qur'ân, (iii) the external universe and (iv) the personal world, but according to the Qur'ân (36:12) all these âyât (signs) are encompassed in the light of the Imâm-i Mubin.
That is, his light is the higher world, he is the speaking Qur'ân, the quintessence of the universe and a luminious personal world in true sense." [Source: Tawil 10: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ahsâ' (He has encompassed them):
"It is said in verse (78:29): "And We have encompassed everything in (the form of) a book."
The meaning of everything cannot be complete without intellects and souls, nor can a merely silent book possess all intellectual and spiritual (moving) things.
Therefore, it is true to say that this is a description of the speaking book, i.e., the Imâm-i mubîn" [Source: Tawil 33: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ma'a'l-Qur'ân' (With the Qur'ân):
"Externally Ali (Imam of the time) is a pure personality and internally a light. Externally, the Qur'ân is a glorious heavenly Book and internally (in the Prophet and the Imam) it is light.
This shows that externally Ali and Qur'ân are separate from each other, but internally they are not only together, they are one light." [Source: Tawil 820: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ma'a'l-Qur'ân' (With the Qur'ân):
"It is said in Hadith: "Ali is with the Qur'ân and the Qur'ân is with Ali, they will never separate from each other until they come to me at the pond (of Kawthar)." (Yanâbi, p. 103).
The wisdom of this is that Ali (i.e., every true Imam) in his spirituality and luminosity is with the Qur'ân and the Qur'ân in its spirituality and luminosity is with Ali.
Thus, the Qur'ân and Ali are one light in spirituality and this oneness will continue until the resurrection takes place and they come to the pond of Kawthar." [Source: Tawil 819: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Hâdin' (Guide, Imâm):
"It is said in verse (13:7): "Verily you are a warner, and to every nation (qawm) there is a guide." (See Shi'i translations and commentaries of the Qurân and the books on the Manâqib of Mawla Ali).
From the time of Âdam till the Resurrection of resurrections, the people of every age are a nation and for every nation God has appointed a guide, who is the Imam of the time." [Source: Tawil 940: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Yastanbitûna' (They deduce, discover, they do istinbâat):
"Istinbâat primarily means "to dig a well and bring out water for the first time". Secondarily it is used in the sense of thinking, reflection, to penetrate deeply (Qâmûs, p. 77). For instance, istanbata'sh-shay' means to reveal a thing from its hidden state.
Verse (4:83), in which it is used, clearly means that after the holy Prophet, it is the ulu'l-amr, the JUST Imams from the progeny of the holy Prophet, who bring out the inner meaning of the Qur'ânic verses, because it is they who know the ta'wil (inner meaning) of the Qur'ân." [Source:
Tawil 980: A Thousand Wisdoms] ..NOT anyone or everyone....even if they are siblings or part of the family....this Right is not based on any biological or family ties only though its critical...and so if one examines the ayah relevant to the covenant made with Abraham...Allah is clear that NOT all Posterity of Abraham will be Imams....it all depends on which kind of "rulership" you are talking about...in Islam there exists two forms of governance...Islam is both Din and Duniya ! The Imam can be both...but he secular leader or ruler cannot ever be The Imam....and so there is a spiritual Kingdom and a Worldly Kingdom....they are separate...Nabi also was a Ruler during his time...and also Nabi and also Rasool and also the "Imam" as Abraham's posterity was given this "favour" as per Allah's covenant with Abraham...
MY COVENANT REACHES NOT THE ZALIMUN" AND thus EXCLUDED !
Ta'wil of word 'Muslimah' (The community of the pure Imams):
"A true Muslim is the one who submits himself to God. In this sense, Hazrat Ibrâhîm and Hazrat Ismâil prayed: "Our Lord! Make us submitters to You and of our progeny a submitting community (ummatan muslimah) to You (by true obedience)." (2:128). This shows that ummatan muslimah is the community of the pure Imâms who are the progeny of Hazrat Ibrâhîm and Hazrat Ismâil (See Daâ'im, I, 33). " [Source: Tawil 812: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Madînat al-ilm' (The city of knowledge):
"It is stated in Hadith: " I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate, so whoever wants knowledge let him come through the gate." (Sharh, I, 89). That is, whoever wants the treasures of the knowledge of certainty, the eye of certainty, and the truth of certainty, then it is necessary and imperative for him to enter the city of knowledge of the Prophet by walking in the light of the unprecedented guidance of the Ali of the time." [Source: Tawil 804: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Chatur saheb,
Can you provide the name of author of the book ' A THOUSAND WISDOMS ' year of printing and publisher's name, thanks.