Pir or Mustawda Imam

[kmaherali]

MSMS's statement is very important. His statement should have stopped at
'DESCENDANTS', but by adding the words ' whether they be sons OR remote male issue...' is confusing. The meaning of remote as you know is 'far off' or
' not closely connected or closely related'. Descendants also include sons/daughter of brothers, sisters and cousins as well.
BTY you know well the meaning of Rumi's couplet; You are a well informed person, Why in late 70's Waizeen were stopped to mention this Rumi's couplet in waizes?

The word descendant means an offspring:

Descendant dictionary definition | descendant defined

www.yourdictionary.com › Dictionary Definitions

Descendant is defined as an offspring of a particular person. An example of a descendant is a man being the great, great grandson of someone.

The descendant can of course be a daughter as well but the cousin is not the descendant. Since descendants include women as well, MSMS clarified it by mentioning: 'whether they be sons or remote male issue..'. It was not meant for confusion but as clarification.

I would not ask you if I knew the meaning of the Rumi couplet. Please provide the meaning for the benefit of those who do not know Persian language. Thanks

[mazharshah]

MSMS's statement is very important. His statement should have stopped at
'DESCENDANTS', but by adding the words ' whether they be sons OR remote male issue...' is confusing. The meaning of remote as you know is 'far off' or
' not closely connected or closely related'. Descendants also include sons/daughter of brothers, sisters and cousins as well.
BTY you know well the meaning of Rumi's couplet; You are a well informed person, Why in late 70's Waizeen were stopped to mention this Rumi's couplet in waizes?

The word descendant means an offspring:

Descendant dictionary definition | descendant defined

www.yourdictionary.com › Dictionary Definitions

Descendant is defined as an offspring of a particular person. An example of a descendant is a man being the great, great grandson of someone.

The descendant can of course be a daughter as well but the cousin is not the descendant. Since descendants include women as well, MSMS clarified it by mentioning: 'whether they be sons or remote male issue..'. It was not meant for confusion but as clarification.

I would not ask you if I knew the meaning of the Rumi couplet. Please provide the meaning for the benefit of those who do not know Persian language. Thanks

PIDAR NOOR WA PISAR NOOR AST MASHHUR
AZZ EEN FAHUM KUN NOORUN ALA NOOR (RUMI)

Translation; It is well known father is noor and son is noor, understand this
( keep in mind ) this is noor upon noor.

I was told that in 1975 conference the will statement of MSMS ' whether they be sons or remote male issue..' came under discussion. In late 70's missionaries were told not to quote the above couplet of Rumi. Once I wrote an article for ITREB and quoted the above couplet. I was called in office by a top official and he asked me to delete that couplet. I argued and was told no more and that article never published.

[ismaili103]

Any statement of a Sufi or a pir is NOT a certificate for Imam.

There are hundreds of Sufi in Punjab and Sindh, but they do not belongs to Imams family, but Pir belongs to the Imams family. So please do not compare sufi with Pir.

And second, Pirs have responsibility of making Farman on behalf of Imam . So words of Pirs are words of Imam.

[Admin]

Ya Ali Madad:
Rumi was a great Sufi of 7th level intellect, nothing more.
....
Admin has failed very badly.becoming abettor of cursed.

Both statements have to be proved. There is no intellectual dimension to these statements and their place is not on this Forum.

Admin

[nuseri]

To Ismaili103,
Ya Ali madad.
Firstly do you hear imam in female voice.?
Having dual image of male,female n your smart mind.
Teen tigda kaam bigdaa.
Do not confuse your mind with facets.
All the writings of Pirs is Noor percieved by them expressed in writings.that is absolute theory aspect of the faith,the reality n practical is to hear n speak to NOOR itself you have to find it within yourself. There are no female route to it per se that I know of.
Destination is oneness.
Beside your graduation of secular university,mugging up of multi million words
If you also try to graduate with 2 words syllabus from Universe of ALI.
I am graduate from the latter school.
Rely n have absolute belief of Mhi farmans over unwarranted ginans and late Alwaez beliefs.
One is sure path to marifat n other is confusion n smartness stuck in haqiqati level.
My many posting on ginan,pirs have been deleted since last 3 years.
Ali bless you.I like your criticism it can happen from your level.

[kmaherali]

Admin,

If you feel that the past 2 posts of Nuseri are worthy of viewing, at least move them to the thread on Rumi so that discussion can be based on the previous posts on Rumi and the recent Farman about Rumi that I have posted there.

Thanks

[Admin]

Doctrinal discussion on Rumi have been moved to:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=8840

There is another thread also in "People" section on Rumi.