Ismailism influenced by Greek philosophy.

Discussion on doctrinal issues
mazhar
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:59 pm

Post by mazhar »

ismaili103 wrote:
If Kmaherali is fana fi Allah, can he call himself Allah.
Yes, Indeed, be shak, yaqeenan.

Mowla Ali says;

" The one who recognizes himself, recognizes God. " ( not exact words)

There is a persian saying,

GAR TU GADA DANI GADAI
GAR TU KHUDA DANI KHUDAI
fayaz006
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:03 pm

Post by fayaz006 »

zznoor wrote:Hay

There are more good Muslims then bad Muslims.

You can never blame Qur'an, Hadith for bad behavior. I am not responsible for
What iSIS is doing in ME. I am not defending anybody who takes law in hand. If some Mulla misguides some young man, responsible authority should punish them.

What is happening in Islamic world is very complicated and there are many actors to be blamed.

That is not issue on this site. We are discussion religion on Ismailis and other Muslims if you do not like Muslims, you are free to call yourself anything you want.
No Islam is a way of life. The ISIS and Taliban merely have the courage to live their lives the way the wahabis have taught them. You and the people with your thought process are responsible for ISIS, Taliban and other God forsaken cancer within Islam. People like yourself with such superficial knowledge about religion are the most dangerous.

Ismailis are taught to love humanity and look for commonalities in all religion including Greek. They are taught to study and understand different faiths in accordance with God's command of humanity being created from a single Soul. What is a wahabi taught? What is wrong with other fiques in Islam rather than what is common with everyone. How can you repress women and minorities? Did the Wahabi teach you about the Hijab?

In a way though i pitty the wahabis that you follow. They were born with blinders on their eyes. Their enviornment virtually made it impossible for them to be anything but bigotted, small minded, hypocites. But you were born in the Ismaili faith. Yet you chose the way of the wahabi. Out of all the paths that Islam offered you, you chose the most cancerous. How can anybody that has been given so much of God's grace, being born in a relatively liberal tariqa, study in Boston, reject that Grace so ungratefully.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

Just to perform Salat 5 times/ day, fasting in Ramdan and performing Hujj once in life time does not make you Wahabi. It is necessary to be Muslim.
fayaz006
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:03 pm

Post by fayaz006 »

zznoor wrote:Just to perform Salat 5 times/ day, fasting in Ramdan and performing Hujj once in life time does not make you Wahabi. It is necessary to be Muslim.
No but not using Mohammad as an intercessor does make you a Wahhabi which you have claimed in the past, unless you were lying . Using the five pillars alone as the sole criterion for defining a muslim most definately does. Face it, you are a Wahhabi because only a Wahhabi claims that he/she does not belong to any sect of Islam rather he follows Mohammad.

So i guess you need to get your brothers in arms in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan to start acting more like Muslims and less like animals before you can start lecturing us on what makes a Muslim. Well then again you are a women and YOUR brothers may not like getting lectured from one.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

fayaz006 wrote:
zznoor wrote:Just to perform Salat 5 times/ day, fasting in Ramdan and performing Hujj once in life time does not make you Wahabi. It is necessary to be Muslim.
No but not using Mohammad as an intercessor does make you a Wahhabi which you have claimed in the past, unless you were lying .
There are many Ayas in Qur'an saying you do not need intercessior. You pray and ask to Allah directly. Prophet is dead and you definitely do not pray to Dead saint for favors.
Using the five pillars alone as the sole criterion for defining a muslim most definately does. Face it, you are a Wahhabi because only a Wahhabi claims that he/she does not belong to any sect of Islam rather he follows Mohammad.
If you are using only 5 pillars which BTW all Muslims are required to fulfill, how do you tell which sect you belong to?
What sect Prophet and Sahaba belong to?


So i guess you need to get your brothers in arms in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan to start acting more like Muslims and less like animals before you can start lecturing us on what makes a Muslim. Well then again you are a women and YOUR brothers may not like getting lectured from one.

BTW in following Hadith prophet instructed what Muslim is required to do
Narrated / Authority of: Talha bin Ubaidullah
A man from Najd with unkempt hair came to Allah's Apostle and we heard his loud voice but could not understand what he was saying, till he came near and then we came to know that he was asking about Islam. Allah's Apostle said, "You have to offer prayers perfectly five times in a day and night (24 hours)." The man asked, "Is there any more (praying)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "No, but if you want to offer the Nawafil prayers (you can)." Allah's Apostle further said to him: "You have to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." The man asked, "Is there any more fasting?" Allah's Apostle replied, "No, but if you want to observe the Nawafil fasts (you can)." Then Allah's Apostle further said to him, "You have to pay the Zakat (obligatory charity)." The man asked, "Is there any thing other than the Zakat for me to pay?" Allah's Apostle replied, "No, unless you want to give alms of your own." And then that man retreated saying, "By Allah! I will neither do less nor more than this." Allah's Apostle said, "If what he said is true, then he will be successful (i.e. he will be granted Paradise)."

You can call me whatever you want, I am trying to be plain Muslim.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

Somehow all of the blood sucking ISIS/Taliban/Wahabi are all reciting the prayers 5 times and respecting the 30 fasts and killing children and women and innocent MUSLIMS. So according to your hadith they are Muslim?

zznoor, you are saying there are bad Muslims and good Muslim. I think this is a very sick undestanding of Islam. There can not be bad Muslims. There are Muslims (In which I include Christian, Jews, Hindus etc) and there are non-Muslims in which I include people who call themselves Muslims but have utter disregards for othe 'peoples' belief.

There is no such thing as bad Muslim. Praying 5 times a day and killing people does not make you a "bad" Muslim. It maks you a NON-Muslim.
zznoor
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

There is no such thing as bad Muslim. Praying 5 times a day and killing people does not make you a "bad" Muslim. It maks you a NON-Muslim.
I have not even killed anybody in my dream.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

I do not mean specifically you. The statment is not directed to you, I am talking generaly. I mean prayong 5 times a day does not make "someone" a Muslim.

i am sure Allah prefer to call Muslim someone who does not pray 5 rather times a day or even any time a day but is mindful of Allah's creation though he call himself a Jew, Christian or Hindu or Taoist whatever, than someone who makes a show out of his faith, prays 5 times a day, does 30 fast a year and goes to Mecca for pilgrimage and kills fellow human beings in the expectation of getting 50 houris in the hereafter.

I wonder what a the expectation of the female bombers... are they expecting 50 hourras ;-) what does the Hadith say about this new trends?

but I shall control myself, this is not the subject of this thread so lets all come back to the thread and I can in few days erase all the non-thread discussion which should never have happened here in the firat place.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

Admin wrote:I do not mean specifically you. The statment is not directed to you, I am talking generaly. I mean prayong 5 times a day does not make "someone" a Muslim.

i am sure Allah prefer to call Muslim someone who does not pray 5 rather times a day or even any time a day but is mindful of Allah's creation though he call himself a Jew, Christian or Hindu or Taoist whatever, than someone who makes a show out of his faith, prays 5 times a day, does 30 fast a year and goes to Mecca for pilgrimage and kills fellow human beings in the expectation of getting 50 houris in the hereafter.

I wonder what a the expectation of the female bombers... are they expecting 50 hourras ;-) what does the Hadith say about this new trends?

but I shall control myself, this is not the subject of this thread so lets all come back to the thread and I can in few days erase all the non-thread discussion which should never have happened here in the firat place.
Please watch CNN Mondy, 27th, 9 PM EST

BLINDSIDED
How ISIS shook the world

By: Fareed Zakaria[/b]
fayaz006
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:03 pm

Post by fayaz006 »

zznoor wrote:
Please watch CNN Mondy, 27th, 9 PM EST

BLINDSIDED
How ISIS shook the world

By: Fareed Zakaria[/b]
cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/04/21/lead-dnt-brown-alabama-student-marries-isis-fighter.cnn

The girl in video has an Hijab, prayed 5 times a day and observed the fast. She is also book smart just like you, however unlike you she understands exactly who she is, a Wahhabi. Out of all the 72-73 sects, only one makes the arguments that you do.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

fayaz006 wrote:
zznoor wrote:
Please watch CNN Mondy, 27th, 9 PM EST

BLINDSIDED
How ISIS shook the world

By: Fareed Zakaria[/b]
cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/04/21/lead-dnt-brown-alabama-student-marries-isis-fighter.cnn

The girl in video has an Hijab, prayed 5 times a day and observed the fast. She is also book smart just like you, however unlike you she understands exactly who she is, a Wahhabi. Out of all the 72-73 sects, only one makes the arguments that you do.
Honestly I do not understand your argument.

To be Muslim you must pray 5 times (or 5 prayers in 3 times as Shia practice)
Fast in Ramadan and Hujj in life time. This is requirement for Muslim. Wether you are Wahabi, Salafi, Sufi, Sunni or Shia. Only Ismaili are trying to say you do not need to perform Salat and do not have to fast and Hujj is Didar of MHI.
I really do not know that if one prays 5 times and fasts in Ramdan then he is Wahabi.
Please read up on Wahabism. There is plenty of material on net.
Here is how prophet described a Muslim
The Holy Prophet said: “Whoever says prayers as we do, and faces our Qibla, and eats the meat slaughtered by us, he is a Muslim, for whom is the covenant of God and the covenant of the messenger of God, so violate not the covenant of God.”
(Bukhari, Book of Prayer; Book 8, ch. 28; vol. i, p. 222)
Salaam
Admin
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Post by Admin »

You are wrong, to bec consider Muslim, you only have to accept that There is no God but God and Muhammad (PBUH) is his apostle.

Everything else is between Allah and yourself. There is no compulsion in faith. We do not impose upon you our way of understanding Islam. Neither should you do that to anyone!
agakhani
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:49 am
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

Post by agakhani »

Piglet,
Don't you know that Shia Muslims are also performing Salats 5 times?
We Shia Imami Ismaili Nizari only perform 3 times, so, why didn't you word Ismailis and used word Shia instead? Kyo Ismaili word use karne me mirchi lagati hai? I have solution for that mirchi pains! and the solution is "MUD BATH" with male pig! Texas,is a very fertilizes state for big hogs and hunks! So, let me arrange that mud baths :roll: don't forget our mud play after mud bath.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

Admin wrote:You are wrong, to bec consider Muslim, you only have to accept that There is no God but God and Muhammad (PBUH) is his apostle.

Everything else is between Allah and yourself. There is no compulsion in faith. We do not impose upon you our way of understanding Islam. Neither should you do that to anyone!
What I quoted is Prophet's word. You become Muslim by saying Shahada. Then other things become obligatory on you.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

agakhani wrote:Piglet,
Don't you know that Shia Muslims are also performing Salats 5 times?
We Shia Imami Ismaili Nizari only perform 3 times, so, why didn't you word Ismailis and used word Shia instead? Kyo Ismaili word use karne me mirchi lagati hai? I have solution for that mirchi pains! and the solution is "MUD BATH" with male pig! Texas,is a very fertilizes state for big hogs and hunks! So, let me arrange that mud baths :roll: don't forget our mud play after mud bath.
Admin:
ASAK
Do you think "piglet" is acceptable?
Or only I have to be correct and respectable?
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

zznoor wrote:
Admin wrote:You are wrong, to bec consider Muslim, you only have to accept that There is no God but God and Muhammad (PBUH) is his apostle.

Everything else is between Allah and yourself. There is no compulsion in faith. We do not impose upon you our way of understanding Islam. Neither should you do that to anyone!
What I quoted is Prophet's word. You become Muslim by saying Shahada. Then other things become obligatory on you.
Add this Hadith to what I said before


There’s a very explicit hadith on this–the hadith of the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) said: The difference between us and them (Kuffar/Non-Muslims) is that of salaah so whoever abandons salaah certainly commits kufr.(Tirmidhi, kitab ul Iman, Declared Sahih by Imam Tirmidhi, Imam Nasai and Allama Iraqi, Minhaaj ul Muslimeen pg.80)
[/b]
Admin
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Post by Admin »

As we said, all of your friends from ISI recite Salat and none of them is Muslim. You want to defend them, go ahead. But not in this Forum and not in this thread.

Our Imams are not your Imams and your faith is not our faith.

This is not the place to preach and post the same message of propaganda in each and every thread. Last warning.
kmaherali
Posts: 25705
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:01 pm

Post by kmaherali »

Admin wrote:As we said, all of your friends from ISI recite Salat and none of them is Muslim. You want to defend them, go ahead. But not in this Forum and not in this thread.
There has been discussion about this at:

Who could be considered a Muslim
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 80&start=0
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

fayaz006 wrote:
zznoor wrote:Hay

There are more good Muslims then bad Muslims.

You can never blame Qur'an, Hadith for bad behavior. I am not responsible for
What iSIS is doing in ME. I am not defending anybody who takes law in hand. If some Mulla misguides some young man, responsible authority should punish them.

What is happening in Islamic world is very complicated and there are many actors to be blamed.

That is not issue on this site. We are discussion religion on Ismailis and other Muslims if you do not like Muslims, you are free to call yourself anything you want.
No Islam is a way of life. The ISIS and Taliban merely have the courage to live their lives the way the wahabis have taught them. You and the people with your thought process are responsible for ISIS, Taliban and other God forsaken cancer within Islam. People like yourself with such superficial knowledge about religion are the most dangerous.

Ismailis are taught to love humanity and look for commonalities in all religion including Greek. They are taught to study and understand different faiths in accordance with God's command of humanity being created from a single Soul. What is a wahabi taught? What is wrong with other fiques in Islam rather than what is common with everyone. How can you repress women and minorities? Did the Wahabi teach you about the Hijab?

In a way though i pitty the wahabis that you follow. They were born with blinders on their eyes. Their enviornment virtually made it impossible for them to be anything but bigotted, small minded, hypocites. But you were born in the Ismaili faith. Yet you chose the way of the wahabi. Out of all the paths that Islam offered you, you chose the most cancerous. How can anybody that has been given so much of God's grace, being born in a relatively liberal tariqa, study in Boston, reject that Grace so ungratefully.
Please search for "Who is responsible for creation of ISIS"
Read up on it.
I have not chosen way of Wahabi, read up on Islam. I have chosen to follow Qur'an and Sunnah of Prophet.
Not everybody who prays Salat, fasts and covers her head and wears modest clothes are Wahabi.
Just saying Sahada makes you believer in Islam. To become Muslim, Salat, fast, Zakat and Hujj becomes Fird.
Salaam
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