no mention of shiva in ginans.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:08 pm

Dear Friends,

In our ginans pirs have mentioned Vishnu and Brahma but have neglected
third entity SHIVA. There are more followers of Shiva than Vishnu and Brahma together. There are more temples in name of Shiva in India than in comparison to Vishnu. Please explain.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:37 pm

There is proof enough that the Pirs have not brought any hinduism into our faith but only Satpanth that one can translate as Sirat al Mustaqueem as for some people if we call it with indian names it automatically means we are hindus.

In the same way peophet Muhammed has not confirmed many parts of the beliefs of the Jews and Christians and many parts of the old and new testament, our Pirs and Imams have not confirms whatever was not part of Sat panth, they have only confirmed the part that was the truth.

If you are still against Satpanth (I was going to write Sat Path

, I suggest you read a little bit more before posting again. The controversies you want to perpetualy bring to the Forum have been replied in the past many times. Please learn to use the search button. Thanks.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:27 am

mazhar wrote:Dear Friends,

In our ginans pirs have mentioned Vishnu and Brahma but have neglected
third entity SHIVA. There are more followers of Shiva than Vishnu and Brahma together. There are more temples in name of Shiva in India than in comparison to Vishnu. Please explain.

Shiva is considered as Maheshwar in the Ginans. It has the same meaning - destroyer.

ejee bhrahmaa veeshnav maheshar bhanneeye
kal maa(n)he veeshnu(n) Imaam
je jeev farmaane chaalyaa
so pahotaa bahesht makaan..............illaahee.............16

Know the Creator, Ruler and the Destroyer(of evil). In the present age Lord Vishnu is the Imaam. Those souls that have followed the Farmaans, have reached the abode of paradise.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:39 am

In our ginans pirs have mentioned Vishnu and Brahma but have neglected
third entity SHIVA

Nope they didn't! they named Shiava with different names like Mahesh, Maheshwar, Bholenath & Shankar in ginans.

BTW Shiva has many names: Rudra, Shankar, Mahadev, Pashupati Nath,Bhola Bhagvan,Mahesh & Maheshwar e.t.c.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:38 pm

kmaherali

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 10417

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:27 am Post subject: Re: no mention of shiva in ginans.

mazhar wrote:
Dear Friends,

In our ginans pirs have mentioned Vishnu and Brahma but have neglected
third entity SHIVA. There are more followers of Shiva than Vishnu and Brahma together. There are more temples in name of Shiva in India than in comparison to Vishnu. Please explain.
Kmaherali wrote,
Shiva is considered as Maheshwar in the Ginans. It has the same meaning - destroyer.

ejee bhrahmaa veeshnav maheshar bhanneeye
kal maa(n)he veeshnu(n) Imaam
je jeev farmaane chaalyaa
so pahotaa bahesht makaan..............illaahee.............16

Know the Creator, Ruler and the Destroyer(of evil). In the present age Lord Vishnu is the Imaam. Those souls that have followed the Farmaans, have reached the abode of paradise.

Dear Kmaherali,
While studying ginans, I found out Pirs and Syeds have mentioned names of Vishnu and Brahma about 97% and only 3% space is given to name of Shiva or Maheshwar. Shiva has 108 different names. He is the 3rd entity of Trimurti in Hindu philosophy. May be our Pirs have avoided bescause he is god of destruction as you mentioned.
Pir Hasan Kabiruddin has mentioned trimurti, as he has written," BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESHWAR BHANNIYEY." Means know the creator ( Brahma), preserver
( Vishnu ) and destroyer ( Maheshwar/ Shiva ). Trimurti philosophy has 3 entities with different work of management of universe. My question is, Do we believe in trinity?
Allah ek khassam sbhu ka------- unity, oneness, Ahad
Brahma and Vishnu------------------duality
Brahma, Vishnu, and Maheshwar/ Shiva-------Trinity. Which one is correct.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:35 am

We do not believe there are 3 Gods, we believe there are 99 Gods, we believe in Rahim, and Raheman and also in Khaliq, Al-Jabbar and... oh yes, Allah, and I can continue with the list of the 99 Gods in which all Muslims believe. And obviously those who do not believe in them are not Muslims. You tell me, do you not believe in al-Khaliq? if not, you are not Muslim.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:00 am

YAM Mazhar,

Bhaijan, why are you creating BIG FROM NOTHING,

What is the problem if pir use Sanskrit and Gujarati to the 100% Sanskrit and Prakrit speakers. The meaning is same.

Vishnu= sustainer AKA Rab in Arabic.
Bhrama = Creator AKA Khaliq in Arabic..
Maheshwar= destroyer of evil( don't know the Arabic name) but I will find it.

God is one but God has unlimited attributes Vishnu, Bhrama , mahesh are just attributes.

Pir said now in this era Vishnu bhrama and mahesh is Imam ,which means Imam is Allah

BTW according to Pir Mahesh/ shiv is Holy Spirit who get birth as the body of Imam on earth and God manifest on them.

This trinity concept is in every religion

God= Allah = Vishnu
Jesus= Mohammad = Bhrama
Holy Spirit = ulil amr = Shiv

In short its, just the matter of LANGUAGE , these are attributes in different language but as I said " unlimited attributes but God is one "

BTW Taoism ( a Chinese religion ) also has trinity concept.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:27 am

mazhar wrote: My question is, Do we believe in trinity?
Allah ek khassam sbhu ka------- unity, oneness, Ahad
Brahma and Vishnu------------------duality
Brahma, Vishnu, and Maheshwar/ Shiva-------Trinity. Which one is correct.

Hindu scriptures contain a thousand names of God, each one conveying a different shade of philosophical meaning. (Yogananda).

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:23 pm

kmaherali

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 10429

Posted: 05 Apr 2015 11:27 pm Post subject:

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mazhar wrote:
My question is, Do we believe in trinity?
Allah ek khassam sbhu ka------- unity, oneness, Ahad
Brahma and Vishnu------------------duality
Brahma, Vishnu, and Maheshwar/ Shiva-------Trinity. Which one is correct.
Hindu scriptures contain a thousand names of God, each one conveying a different shade of philosophical meaning. (Yogananda).

Reply by Mazhar,

Is philosophy of Yogananda superior or Farman of Allah, Rasul, and Imam.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:17 pm

Do we believe in Duality and Trinity?
Mazhar,
In answer let me ask you this! Do we believes in Allah" s 99 attributes? If your answer is yes then there are 99 Allahs!

Allah"s 99 attributes are lots more than only 2 & 3 attributes! Of Hindu Gods!

Because Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are attribites of their Bhagwan same like we have,
99 different names of Allah.

Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh, they are not God but they are from, they are part and they are directly connected to Allah. they have equal positions but different duties same like Alllahs 99 dofferent attributes have, they are not Allah but they are from Allah.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:43 am

mazhar wrote: Reply by Mazhar,

Is philosophy of Yogananda superior or Farman of Allah, Rasul, and Imam.

In what way does his philosophy contradict or differ from the Farman of Allah, Rasul and the Imam?

MHI quoted Allama Iqbal in one of his speeches:

'God has said: 'Wisdom is an immense good, wherever you find this invaluable treasure, acquire it'.'

http://www.ismaili.net/drupal5/node/27590

Since we are discussing terms from Hindu tradition, it is only appropriate to quote from a sage ( a fanna person) from Hindu tradition.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:16 pm

ismaili103

Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 158

Posted: 05 Apr 2015 11:00 pm Post subject:

YAM Mazhar,

Bhaijan, why are you creating BIG FROM NOTHING,

What is the problem if pir use Sanskrit and Gujarati to the 100% Sanskrit and Prakrit speakers. The meaning is same.

Vishnu= sustainer AKA Rab in Arabic.
Bhrama = Creator AKA Khaliq in Arabic..
Maheshwar= destroyer of evil( don't know the Arabic name) but I will find it.

God is one but God has unlimited attributes Vishnu, Bhrama , mahesh are just attributes.

Pir said now in this era Vishnu bhrama and mahesh is Imam ,which means Imam is Allah

BTW according to Pir Mahesh/ shiv is Holy Spirit who get birth as the body of Imam on earth and God manifest on them.

This trinity concept is in every religion

God= Allah = Vishnu
Jesus= Mohammad = Bhrama
Holy Spirit = ulil amr = Shiv

Reply to Ismaili103,

There are contradictions in your above post.You wrote," What is the problem if pir use Sanskrit and Gujrati to 100% Sanskrit and Prakirit speakers." Please note that at time of Pir Sadruddin Sanskrit and Prakrit were mostly obsolete and were not in common use. Sanskrit turned into Prakrit, Prakrit turned into Bhurj bhasha, and than Bhurj bhasha turned into Hindi. You can say, Pir's target were Gujrati, sindhi, Sriaki and Hindi speaking population.

You wrote," Vishnu = sustainer aka Rab; Brahma = creator aka Khaliq; Maheshwar = destroyer." You people first make up your minds," Are you Muslims or still Hindus?"
When you recite your Du'a, you do not say, Ya Vishnu, Ya Brahma, or Ya Shiva. According to Hindu philisophy Vishnu is preserver and Brahma is creator, so who is superior creator or preserver? If Brahma is creator than Vishnu will come under him, as in ginans Brahma = pir, hence there is flaw in this philosophy.
We Ismailis do not believe 3 = 1. You wrote," This trinity concept is in EVERY RELIGION." It is wrong, Islam and Judaism do not believe in trinity concept.
Again you wrote," Shiv is holy spirit who get birth as the body of holy Imam." In other words you are saying Imam is holy spirit with aspects of Shiva.
103, DO YOU BELIEVE HAZAR IMAM HAS ASPECTS OR CHARACTERS OF SHIVA EMBEDDED IN HIM, LIKE NATRANJ ( DANCER ), OR KALI,OR RUDRA OR LINGAM?

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:36 pm

agakhani

Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2023
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: 08 Apr 2015 11:17 am Post subject:

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Do we believe in Duality and Trinity?
Mazhar,
In answer let me ask you this! Do we believes in Allah" s 99 attributes? If your answer is yes then there are 99 Allahs!

Allah"s 99 attributes are lots more than only 2 & 3 attributes! Of Hindu Gods!

Because Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are attribites of their Bhagwan same like we have,
99 different names of Allah.

Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh, they are not God but they are from, they are part and they are directly connected to Allah. they have equal positions but different duties same like Alllahs 99 dofferent attributes have, they are not Allah but they are from Allah

Reply to Aghakhani,
God is beyond imagination, intellect and comparison. ALLah is Ahad, Samad, kulahu kufuwan Ahad, laisa misli shai. There is no comparison of any thing in this universe, which can describe Allah. 99 names are His attributes and not Himself, and sufis say there are His unlimited attributal names. We ismailis do not believe 3 = 1. Aghakhani do you believe Hazar Imam has characters or aspects or qualities like Shiva as NATRANJ, KALI, RUDRA OR LINGAM? Hindus worship those, do we?

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:11 pm

mazhar wrote:
You wrote," Vishnu = sustainer aka Rab; Brahma = creator aka Khaliq; Maheshwar = destroyer." You people first make up your minds," Are you Muslims or still Hindus?"
When you recite your Du'a, you do not say, Ya Vishnu, Ya Brahma, or Ya Shiva. According to Hindu philisophy Vishnu is preserver and Brahma is creator, so who is superior creator or preserver? If Brahma is creator than Vishnu will come under him, as in ginans Brahma = pir, hence there is flaw in this philosophy.

Dear Mazhar and Ismaili103

Excuse me for interrupting.

I think the problem is with the understanding of the language, in which we recite our Dua.

Lets say our if our Dua would have been in English language with "O Sustainer" and "O Creator".

Would we be wrong to mean it as " Ya Rab" and " Ya Khaliq" in Arabic language? or "Ya Vishnu" and " Ya Brahma" in Indian language?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:17 pm

If Allah can be "Al Mumit", Al Jabbar, Al Darr, Al Kabej, Al Gafeth, Al Kahhar! Then why not imam can not be a destroyer? After all he is holder of Allah“s Noor!

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:49 am

Dear Mazhar,

As i said you in past, half knowledge is dangerous.

You ask me to tell about the charactersticks, aspects and qualities of SHIV in our IMAM.

Tum apne hy jaal mai phans gaye.

As you know, SHIV is DESTROYER OF EVIL. What else quality of mahesh you want in IMAM E ZAMAN. Imam is destroyer of evil, he destroyed 9 biggest evil of that era their name aRe as follow.

Evil Forces.

1) shankhasur
2) madhukitak
3) mor danav
4) haranakans
5) bal
6) jarasin
7) ravan
8.)kans
9) duyodhan

Wait, your grand grand sons will definately see Imam e zaman mowla Ali will destroy the graetest Evil in the history of earth. Which will DAITH KALINGA.

MR BIASED,Did you need more on IMAM AS DESTROYER OF EVIL.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:11 pm

agakhani

Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2025
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: 09 Apr 2015 10:17 am Post subject:

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If Allah can be "Al Mumit", Al Jabbar, Al Darr, Al Kabej, Al Gafeth, Al Kahhar! Then why not imam can not be a destroyer? After all he is holder of Allah“s Noor!

Reply to Aghakhani,

As usual once again you grab the line out of context. I asked you," Do we ismailis worship aspects or characters of Shiva like Natranj, Kali, Rudra, and or Lingam?" You did not replied me yes or no. Now let me ask you in this way," Is Ali Natranj ( dancer ), Kali ( blood sucker ), Lingam ( a bad word )?"

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:39 pm

a_27826

Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 320

Posted: 09 Apr 2015 10:11 am Post subject:

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mazhar wrote:

You wrote," Vishnu = sustainer aka Rab; Brahma = creator aka Khaliq; Maheshwar = destroyer." You people first make up your minds," Are you Muslims or still Hindus?"
When you recite your Du'a, you do not say, Ya Vishnu, Ya Brahma, or Ya Shiva. According to Hindu philisophy Vishnu is preserver and Brahma is creator, so who is superior creator or preserver? If Brahma is creator than Vishnu will come under him, as in ginans Brahma = pir, hence there is flaw in this philosophy.

Dear Mazhar and Ismaili103

Excuse me for interrupting.

I think the problem is with the understanding of the language, in which we recite our Dua.

Lets say our if our Dua would have been in English language with "O Sustainer" and "O Creator".

Would we be wrong to mean it as " Ya Rab" and " Ya Khaliq" in Arabic language? or "Ya Vishnu" and " Ya Brahma" in Indian language?

Reply to 27826,

Good point.
About 25 years back Hazar Imam was requested by Leaders of North America to recite Du'a in English version. ( means English translation ), because it is hard for children to recite Du'a in Arabic. Hazar Imam refused and said Du'a will stay in Arabic. Arrange special classes for kids to learn Du'a in Arabic. There fore we will use words like Allah, Allahuma, Rahman, Rahim, Rabb, Muhammad, Ali in our Du'a and not Vishnu or Brahma or Shiva. If Hazar Imam has to continue Hindu names, why He kept the names of His sons as Rahim, Hussain, and Ali Muhammad.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:04 pm

Author Message
ismaili103

Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 162

Posted: 09 Apr 2015 08:49 pm Post subject:

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Dear Mazhar,

As i said you in past, half knowledge is dangerous.

You ask me to tell about the charactersticks, aspects and qualities of SHIV in our IMAM.

Tum apne hy jaal mai phans gaye.

As you know, SHIV is DESTROYER OF EVIL. What else quality of mahesh you want in IMAM E ZAMAN. Imam is destroyer of evil, he destroyed 9 biggest evil of that era their name aRe as follow.

Evil Forces.

1) shankhasur
2) madhukitak
3) mor danav
4) haranakans
5) bal
6) jarasin
7) ravan
8.)kans
9) duyodhan

Wait, your grand grand sons will definately see Imam e zaman mowla Ali will destroy the graetest Evil in the history of earth. Which will DAITH KALINGA.

MR BIASED,Did you need more on IMAM AS DESTROYER OF EVIL.

Reply to ismaili103,

Piyarey Munnu, I am still learning and not a scholar like you. By the way our Pirs introduced Shah Islam Shah and following Imams as NAKLANKI, so in other words Daeit Kalingo is destroyed long ago by Naklanki, if you are looking for some other Kalingo than look into mirror you will find there.
Piyarey Munnu, I asked you about the characters of Shiva," Do khojas worship today aspects of Shiva like Natranj, Kali, Rudra,or Lingam."
Are you equating HI as Natranj ( dancer ), Kali ( blood sucker ) or Lingam
( bad word ). Munnu, we are living in 21st century and not in treta yug.
Are you still saying Ya Vishnu and Ya Brahna in Du'a?
HUM HAI NAIY TO ANDAAZ KIUN HO PURANA.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:51 pm

tret wrote:
Another point i wanna clear is that most of you folks refer to "Central Asian tradition" or "khoja tradition" when talking about matters of faith. We need to separate tradition -- by tradition I mean cultural rituals -- from essence of faith. We are not talking about traditions but rather essence of faith and that must not be dependent on anyone's tradition -- not central asian nor khoja's. .

The meaning of tradition in our Tariqah is not only confined to cultural rituals as you have put it. It is much broader than that. In fact it also includes the essence of our faith. I had posted a Farman in another thread which you have not read or not understood. I am reposting it here.

Some of the statements in the Oct 1988 Farman in this regard:

"Our Jamat has a living Imam and it is our tradition, it is our belief, that it is the Imam of the Time that gives guidance and direction in masters concerning the Tariqah.I wish it therefore to be well understood that I will continue to give guidance on matters concerning the Tariqah, that I will give you the direction which I believe is the direction which you should follow and that in looking at the Jamat around the world, I will be conscious of differences of tradition and I will note them. I will reflect about them. I will look at them with love and affection."

"Our tradition goes back centuries. It is an esoteric tradition; it is an intellectual tradition; it is a personal tradition; it is a tradition that stems from Hazrat Ali and there will be no compromise on the essence of those traditions."

The traditions that the Imam is referring to above are not confined to any segment of the Jamat and they pertain to the essence of our faith as well.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:04 pm

mazhar wrote:aGood point.
About 25 years back Hazar Imam was requested by Leaders of North America to recite Du'a in English version. ( means English translation ), because it is hard for children to recite Du'a in Arabic. Hazar Imam refused and said Du'a will stay in Arabic. Arrange special classes for kids to learn Du'a in Arabic. There fore we will use words like Allah, Allahuma, Rahman, Rahim, Rabb, Muhammad, Ali in our Du'a and not Vishnu or Brahma or Shiva. If Hazar Imam has to continue Hindu names, why He kept the names of His sons as Rahim, Hussain, and Ali Muhammad.

Mazhar,
Do not confuse Dua with our traditions. Dua is a uniform prayer applicable to all the Jamats world wide and therefore has to be in a common language. However we have intellectual/philosophical traditions they have arisen within certain cultural and linguistic traditions which have to be retained in their original languages. MHI made the following Farman in this regard.

"Now to some of the work which the Association has ahead of it. The most important problem by far for us today is to create students who are capable of going back and of reading the original texts of our history, of reading these texts in Arabic, of reading them in Persian, of reading them in Urdu, of reading them in Gujrati, of reading them in any language in which they have been written. More than ever today we must be able to publish authoritative documents based on primary sources."

tret · Post by **tret** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:05 pm

kmaherali wrote:The meaning of tradition in our Tariqah is not only confined to cultural rituals as you have put it. It is much broader than that. In fact it also includes the essence of our faith. I had posted a Farman in another thread which you have not read or not understood. I am reposting it here.

Some of the statements in the Oct 1988 Farman in this regard:

"Our Jamat has a living Imam and it is our tradition, it is our belief, that it is the Imam of the Time that gives guidance and direction in masters concerning the Tariqah.I wish it therefore to be well understood that I will continue to give guidance on matters concerning the Tariqah, that I will give you the direction which I believe is the direction which you should follow and that in looking at the Jamat around the world, I will be conscious of differences of tradition and I will note them. I will reflect about them. I will look at them with love and affection."

"Our tradition goes back centuries. It is an esoteric tradition; it is an intellectual tradition; it is a personal tradition; it is a tradition that stems from Hazrat Ali and there will be no compromise on the essence of those traditions."

The traditions that the Imam is referring to above are not confined to any segment of the Jamat and they pertain to the essence of our faith as well.

please note, I specifically mentioned "cultural rituals". Also note that Imam is using tradition in two different context. The first one is different tradition, which is cultural-bound [that's what I am referring to]. However, the second quote is in different context, that encompasses the essence of faith. So, tell me if Hazrat Ali was reciting any ginans in gujurati? or saying vishnu, brahma? I know these are linguistic differences and the essence is the same, but that's what I wnat to point out. Like I said, central asian jama'at has a tradition of Ghirag-e-Rushan. Now, would it be practical, if I start imposing on khoja jama'at to follow that? This is what Imam is referring to in the first context.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:13 pm

tret wrote:kmaherali - I don't see no connection to half-knowledge here!!!

MHI mentioned the same at Brown's university recently; but that in no way related to half-knowledge!!!

MHI uses the word superficial knowledge which in my opinion can mean half knowledge. Knowledge without wisdom, incomplete knowledge.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:21 pm

tret wrote:So, tell me if Hazrat Ali was reciting any ginans in gujurati? or saying vishnu, brahma? I know these are linguistic differences and the essence is the same, but that's what I wnat to point out. Like I said, central asian jama'at has a tradition of Ghirag-e-Rushan. Now, would it be practical, if I start imposing on khoja jama'at to follow that? This is what Imam is referring to in the first context.

Hzarat Ali was not reciting Ginans in Gujerati, but the essence of his message was the same as the Ginans in Gujerati. I agree that Chirag-e-roshan is cultural bound but the Ginans and Qasidas are universal traditions in Ismailism and we should all benefit from this diversity. Qasidas are as important to the Khojas as they are to Central Asian Ismailis. Ginans are as important to Central Asian Ismailis as they are to Khojas.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:30 am

mazhar wrote:Author Message
ismaili103

Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 162

Posted: 09 Apr 2015 08:49 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mazhar,

As i said you in past, half knowledge is dangerous.

You ask me to tell about the charactersticks, aspects and qualities of SHIV in our IMAM.

Tum apne hy jaal mai phans gaye.

As you know, SHIV is DESTROYER OF EVIL. What else quality of mahesh you want in IMAM E ZAMAN. Imam is destroyer of evil, he destroyed 9 biggest evil of that era their name aRe as follow.

Evil Forces.

1) shankhasur
2) madhukitak
3) mor danav
4) haranakans
5) bal
6) jarasin
7) ravan
8.)kans
9) duyodhan

Wait, your grand grand sons will definately see Imam e zaman mowla Ali will destroy the graetest Evil in the history of earth. Which will DAITH KALINGA.

MR BIASED,Did you need more on IMAM AS DESTROYER OF EVIL.

Reply to ismaili103,

Piyarey Munnu, I am still learning and not a scholar like you. By the way our Pirs introduced Shah Islam Shah and following Imams as NAKLANKI, so in other words Daeit Kalingo is destroyed long ago by Naklanki, if you are looking for some other Kalingo than look into mirror you will find there.
Piyarey Munnu, I asked you about the characters of Shiva," Do khojas worship today aspects of Shiva like Natranj, Kali, Rudra,or Lingam."
Are you equating HI as Natranj ( dancer ), Kali ( blood sucker ) or Lingam
( bad word ). Munnu, we are living in 21st century and not in treta yug.
Are you still saying Ya Vishnu and Ya Brahna in Du'a?
HUM HAI NAIY TO ANDAAZ KIUN HO PURANA.

Admin,

Read mazhar's statement above. He crosses his limits now, and posting any kind of crap he wants.

Please take some action against him.

He is posting any thing on pirs, Imam and on Ginans without researching any thing on it.

He wrote dait kalinga already destroyed by Imam.... Duhh, tell me which Ginan is available which tell that. There are 100 of Ginan available on Zahoorat and Dait kalinga and no ginan mentioned that Dait was destroyed.

Naklanki means pure and stainless. But according to his foolish thoughts WHEN IMAM CONVERT INTO NAKLANKI, HE KILLED DAIT, woww he even didnt know the meaning of the word.

Go and read in Ginans what going to happen at the time of Dait Kalinga, what will be the time, day, date, year, name of the Imam, place of war, army included, strenth of both army...... Yes you read everything correct, these all things are mentioned in Ginans about the Zahoorat of Imam and War with DAIT KALINGA( ACOORDING TO PIRS DAIT KALINGA IS NEGATIVE POWER OF SCIENCE, KALINGA IS NOT AN INDIVISUAL, BUT THE FOLLOWERS OF ATHEISM AND POWER OF SCIENCE).

I'll suggest you to read Granth BUDH AVATAR for more information. And yes Mowla will destroy dait kalinga in future, as a Ginan reader I also got the Year and name of the Imam, and even numbr of the Imam( e.g 49th Imam ). As I said you, not you but your grand sons will definately see that war.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:41 am

Mazhar,

Chotay,

Agar mujhe Mowla k samne Ginan parhne ka mouqa mila to ma zaroor.

" saami tamari wadi maahe GUR BHRAMA"

And

Anant Akhado ki varani ma bhi

" HARI anant, anant"

hari or bharama hy parhuga or mai chaau ga k tum waha mojood ho ta k tum bhi Mowla k noorani chere pr khushi deKh paoo jab ma HARI or BHARAMA parhuga.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:02 pm

agakhani

Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2026
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: 11 Apr 2015 03:23 am Post subject:

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Quote:

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Note by ADMIN

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Stop copy pasting and learn to press the "QUOTE" button when you want to reply, that way, the original post to which you are replying appears in a box clearly identify and no misquotes will happen.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:15 am

mazhar wrote:Again you wrote," Shiv is holy spirit who get birth as the body of holy Imam." In other words you are saying Imam is holy spirit with aspects of Shiva.
103, DO YOU BELIEVE HAZAR IMAM HAS ASPECTS OR CHARACTERS OF SHIVA EMBEDDED IN HIM, LIKE NATRANJ ( DANCER ), OR KALI,OR RUDRA OR LINGAM?

God is not restricted in the nature of forms he can assume to undertake whatever he needs to do. It depends upon the needs of the time. During the time of Pahelaaj he assumed the form of Narsinh (Man-Lion) to destroy the devil Harnakas. Similarly he assumed the forms of a fish, boar, tortoise etc. According to the Qur'an Majeed, he assumed the form of a tree to communicate to Moses!

Regarding the Hindus 'worshipping' various forms Paramahansa Yogananda writes in his commentary of Bhagavad Gita:

[The Rudras are ten pranas or intelligent life forces, plus their empowering supreme intelligence, Shankara, 'the well-wisher" which sustains their existence.

The deities are all permanently present as symbols in the either and can be invoked by any seeker in deep meditation. For example Mother Kali and Durga represent two aspects of Cosmic Nature. the active creative energy of Spirit. Kali is shown as a four-armed woman, standing on the breast of Lord Shiva. Her four hands hold symbols of prosperity, protection, discipline, and bestowalof wisdom. Shiva represents the Infinite that is the foundation of Cosmic Nature. The symbolism (unravelled) signifies that Cosmic Nature does not test or tempt the devotee with delusion if he is consciously united to the Infinite (the breast of Shiva). Many pios Hindus worship God and His immanence in the cosmos in the forms of Shiva and Kali.

Goddess Durga is usually depicted with ten hands, representing the ten human senses(five sensory instruments and five instruments of action). She too is associated with the Infinite Shiva, and is often shown destroying a breast or demon that symbolizes Ignorance. She is surrounded by the deities Saraswati (wisdom), Lakshmi (prosperity), Ganesh (success), and Kartik (power).]

Daint Kalingo is the force of delusive Maya that has to be constantly overcome to achive freedom. It is not an aspect that will be overcome or conquered in the future. In the Ginan: Gurnarthee bhula tansu vaad na karije, it is stated:

ejee aradh aasann dait puraveene betthaajee
sheshttee saghallee namaavejee...............................3

The devil is established being seated in half a posture(otherside of the throne), and forces the entire creation to bow(to him).

ejee chaalees laakh dait kaalee(n)gaanaa chelaajee
neet neet kalaa jagaayejee...................................4

There are forty lakh(four million) disciples of the evil demon. They assert their strength every day.

ejee veekhaddee vellaa maa(n)he deel tthor na raheshejee
saamee raajo raakhshe tenee raheshejee......................13

In this difficult period the hearts will not remain steady. Only the ones under the protection of the Lord will remain steady.

The entire Ginan which is worth reading can be referenced at:
http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/24308

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:21 am

Thanks Kbhai for posting some ginanic verses on Daint Kalinga
But interesting person who wants to know more about The war between nishkalnki imam and devil force urfe Daint Kalinga can also find in below ginan

EJI PACCHAM DESH NE KHAND ERAK MAHE, SETAR DIP MINZAR composed by Pir Shams. he has explained it beautifully what will happen during the war? The English text and translation of this ginans available in Ismaili,net. believe me or not only Ismaili pirs has predicted about this war but I have many Hindu Bhajans which are also telling about this war and their predictions also matches with our ginanic predictions!!!!

Post by **Admin** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:21 pm

mazhar wrote:Note by ADMIN

DELETED.

Stop copy pasting and learn to press the "QUOTE" button when you want to reply, that way, the original post to which you are replying appears in a box clearly identify and no misquotes will happen.

Reply by Mazhar,
Dear Admins.

I used 3 methods to post on this site.

You are only requested to press the button "quote". Is it that difficult to understand. Any other form of reply will get your post deleted.