Dear Friends,
My new topic is Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran mentioned by Hazar Imam in Preamble.
Allah says in Quran," Innad Dina indallahil Islam" means, the Din before Allah is Islam.( Surah Alle Imran,ayat # 19.)
Hazar Imam made a Farman in Kenya, Oct 5, 1982. I quote," We, who believe in Islam are infinetly fortunate because Islam is a faith which is eternal."
Islam means submission and peace. Islam profoundly affects a person's thinking and behavior. Islam does not claim to be a new religion, rather it is the original religion, that
primordial faith which has had its roots deep in man's consciousness since the first true human being walked upon earth. Islam is not a mere belief system, but it is the total way of life. A complete system governing all aspectsof man's existence, both individual and collective. Islam provides solutions, which are compatible with reason, logic, the realities of the physical universe and with human nature itself. We are muslims first and then Ismails. Ismailis follow fiqa'i Ja'friya, as Imam mentioned during Ummah conference in Jordan. Fiqa'i Jafariya is well explained by Qadi Noaman in his book on Ismaili jurisprudence named Du'aimul Islam, which was approved by Imam Muiz. In 70's
there were talks about revival of Du'amul Islam and Fatimid Tariqa. We got only 2 items, Janaza Namaz and Eid Namaz according to Fatimi Tariqa. Though these were for all Ismailis all over the world but Ismailis in Africa, Europe, Canada, and USA did not adopted that Fatimi Tariqa' TILL TODAY' and they continue to follow the Tariqa given by MSMS. For example, they say 7 Takbirs in Janaza Namaz where as in Fatimi Tariqa 5 Takbirs are said. It is interesting to note that before Fatimi Tariqa of 70's, Ismailis in united Hindustan and middle east were following SUNNI HANAFI TARIQA, allowed by MSMS, and in Janaza Namaz were saying 4 Takbirs. For Eid Namaz in Africa, Europe,
Canada,and USA a 9/10 years old kid leads the namaz making scores of mistakes, but who cares!
According to my knowledge, there are 4 Tariqas going on amongst Ismailis of world who are followers of H I.
1. Khoja Ismaili Tariqa.
2. Central Asian Ismaili Tariqa.
3. Chinees Ismaili Tariqa.
4. African Ismaili Tariqa.
OUR IMAM IS ONE SO OUR TARIQA SHOULD BE ONE. In 1977, we heard in JK's that IIS should be working on this matter to unify one Tariqa. After 37 years still they have not come up with one unified single Tariqa!! I wished MSMS had written Du'a Himself so there should not have been confusion or controversies amongst Ismailis.
I wished Dua'mul Islam ie. 7 pillars of Islam should have been clearly explained along with constitution to avoid misunderstanding amongst followers of H I.
Take example of namaz, Imam ordered 6+ years back, so far IIS and ITREB's are unable to implement, they are confused. In Islam there are' Usulat e Din' and' Furu'at e Din.'
Qadi noaman, in Dua'mul Islam has mentioned the saying of Imam Ja'far Sadiq," The foudation of Islam is standing on 7 pillars; they are, Willayat( Imamat), Taharat(purity),
Salaat( namaz), Zakaat( alms), Soum( roza),Hajj ( pilgrimage), Jihaad( struggle ), but Wllayat is most important pillar through which one can get ma'rifat of other pillars."
Alwaiz Abu Ali A.Aziz, in his book' Ismaili Tariqa' has mentioned the following sequence;
Usulat e Din: Tawheed, Nubuwwat, Imamat, Adl, Ma'ad.( p. 64)
Furu'at e Din: Kalima Tayyib, Bai'at, Salaat, Zakaat, Saum, Hajj, Jihaad. (p.3, 144 ).
Hazar Imam has emphasized to follow ethical values of Islam according to Quran, but in last 20+ years I have not listened to any waiz on ethical values in JK's.
Still our leadership keep the things in secrecy, they don't explain the jamaits clearly, in RC's students are discouraged to ask questions, teachers are asked to follow syllabus, avoid sensitive discussions. Hazar Imam in New york said, " Ostrich policy is not ours." leaders kept laughing, only few realized the impact of words.
Islam as revealed in holy Quran mentioned in preamble
To Mazhar:Ya Ali Madad:
understand two line of preamble n resolutions in plain simple english.
1.there is one one Ismaili Tariqa and there are different traditions aligned with geography and teaching of pir n dai's.
2. there is no order for namaz whatsoever, even acts of dua may be not there in future ( read Imam SMS farman) .
3 the ethics of Ismaili of caring for fellow being ,charity,forgiveness is ethics taken from quran n guided by MHI.( they need to follow us,understand the inner meaning of the farman)
4.For a faithful ismaili Imam is theBolta quran and also at secondary level quran 1380 years old as HE speak in parable n not easy to understand.
answer 7 questions of preamble n conference.
understand two line of preamble n resolutions in plain simple english.
1.there is one one Ismaili Tariqa and there are different traditions aligned with geography and teaching of pir n dai's.
2. there is no order for namaz whatsoever, even acts of dua may be not there in future ( read Imam SMS farman) .
3 the ethics of Ismaili of caring for fellow being ,charity,forgiveness is ethics taken from quran n guided by MHI.( they need to follow us,understand the inner meaning of the farman)
4.For a faithful ismaili Imam is theBolta quran and also at secondary level quran 1380 years old as HE speak in parable n not easy to understand.
answer 7 questions of preamble n conference.
To whom it may concern and apply,
Hazar Imam is one hence our Tariqa in Ismaili world should be one and not 4/5. Rituals can be different like Chhanta, Gharpat, System of Majalis,
Chirag e roshan etc.
Imam made Farman 7 years back to start uniform Fatimi Salaat (namaz)
in Ismaili world. Previously we have Fatimi janaza namaz and eid namaz,
also, but half Ismaili world is not obeying.
By ethics, I mean Farmans on the following topics should be read in JKs
ie, drinking, smoking, drugs, illegitimate sex relationships and children.
cheating each other, cheating in business, kaam , krodh, moh , lobh, ahunkar, it is long list.
Bolta Quran said in Preamble, follow Islam according to Holy Quran.
Obey Farman of the present Imam.
Hazar Imam is one hence our Tariqa in Ismaili world should be one and not 4/5. Rituals can be different like Chhanta, Gharpat, System of Majalis,
Chirag e roshan etc.
Imam made Farman 7 years back to start uniform Fatimi Salaat (namaz)
in Ismaili world. Previously we have Fatimi janaza namaz and eid namaz,
also, but half Ismaili world is not obeying.
By ethics, I mean Farmans on the following topics should be read in JKs
ie, drinking, smoking, drugs, illegitimate sex relationships and children.
cheating each other, cheating in business, kaam , krodh, moh , lobh, ahunkar, it is long list.
Bolta Quran said in Preamble, follow Islam according to Holy Quran.
Obey Farman of the present Imam.
Mazhar, the Ismaili Tariqa is one. You have been trying very hard to divide it into various parts. Most of your messages are slant towards this goal.
Namaz has been made available to those who wish to continue saying namaz, instead of you reciting the Sunni Namaz and claiming to be an Ismaili, Imam said that an Ismaili Namaz has been made available to you.
Do not try to shove your interpretation down the troat of all Ismailis. Those who want to recite Dua will be doing it as both forms of prayers have co-existed.
I have been very patient of your continuous effort to split the Ismaili community and create useless controversies. I hope you get my message.
Admin
Namaz has been made available to those who wish to continue saying namaz, instead of you reciting the Sunni Namaz and claiming to be an Ismaili, Imam said that an Ismaili Namaz has been made available to you.
Do not try to shove your interpretation down the troat of all Ismailis. Those who want to recite Dua will be doing it as both forms of prayers have co-existed.
I have been very patient of your continuous effort to split the Ismaili community and create useless controversies. I hope you get my message.
Admin
There is an article about the background to Jafari Madhhab at: http://www.iis.ac.uk/research/academic_ ... nopsis.htmmazhar wrote: Ismailis follow fiqa'i Ja'friya, as Imam mentioned during Ummah conference in Jordan. Fiqa'i Jafariya is well explained by Qadi Noaman in his book on Ismaili jurisprudence named Du'aimul Islam, which was approved by Imam Muiz.
Some excerpts of the article:
"The Prophet (P.B.U.H.) had left behind two precious things (thaqalyn), the Qur'an and his household, warning people that as long as they held fast on to these two they would never go astray."
"Therefore to put an end to discord and deviation, Imam Al-Baqer fel t the necessity to lay the foundation of the first school of jurisprudence in AI-Medina. The school flourished at the time of his son, the sixth Imam, Ja'afar al-Sadq (A.S.) and is referred to as the "Ja'fari School" of fiqh. The term Ja'fari, however, should not be misleading. Imam Al-Baqer and Imam Ja'afar were not innovators, but faithful transmitters of the genuine message of Islam as revealed to Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.).
Imam Baqer (A.S.) himself says in this regard; "If I report a tradition without giving it a chain or authorities, then my chain ot authorities for it is in fact my father on the authority of my grandfather on the authority of his father (Amir ul-Mo'mineen Ali ibn Abi Talib (A.S.)) on the authority of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and his family, on the authority of (Archangel) Gabriel, peace be upon him, on the authority of Allah, the Almighty and High"."
Hence the principles of the Madhhab is the allegiance to Ahl al- bayt. The form of the Madhhab can change according to times. We do not have to adhere to the form of worship some 1000 years ago.
Our Tariqah is one and the fundamental principle is the recognition of the Imam. All Ismailis agree to this. Our Jamat is also a diversity with respect to its various traditions and practices which have evolved over different contexts. As our Imam has said, diversity is strength and we should welcome diversity in our tariqah - different traditions should be allowed to express themselves.mazhar wrote: OUR IMAM IS ONE SO OUR TARIQA SHOULD BE ONE. In 1977, we heard in JK's that IIS should be working on this matter to unify one Tariqa. After 37 years still they have not come up with one unified single Tariqa!! I wished MSMS had written Du'a Himself so there should not have been confusion or controversies amongst Ismailis.
I wished Dua'mul Islam ie. 7 pillars of Islam should have been clearly explained along with constitution to avoid misunderstanding amongst followers of H I.
The intention of the Namaz was not to replace Dua but to have an Ismaili Namaz available so that murids may use it instead of a Sunni Namaz.mazhar wrote: Take example of namaz, Imam ordered 6+ years back, so far IIS and ITREB's are unable to implement, they are confused.
What are the sensitive matters that you are referring to?mazhar wrote: Hazar Imam has emphasized to follow ethical values of Islam according to Quran, but in last 20+ years I have not listened to any waiz on ethical values in JK's.
Still our leadership keep the things in secrecy, they don't explain the jamaits clearly, in RC's students are discouraged to ask questions, teachers are asked to follow syllabus, avoid sensitive discussions. Hazar Imam in New york said, " Ostrich policy is not ours." leaders kept laughing, only few realized the impact of words.
MazharAdmin wrote:
Namaz has been made available to those who wish to continue saying namaz, instead of you reciting the Sunni Namaz and claiming to be an Ismaili, Imam said that an Ismaili Namaz has been made available to you.
Here is answer for you. As per Admin Ismaili Namaaz is in place. Why are you complaining? Find out and perform it after you perform Dua. Now you have covered both ends. If you do not get details of Ismaili Namaaz, ask Admin or Kbhai, they will make it available to you. Wish you best
Salaam
ZZNoor,
Which type Namaz you follow or performs?
A closed palms one, which Shia performs
Or
Open palms and open hands? Which Sunny perform?
Are close plams namaz does not reach to your Allah? Or only open hands reaches to Allah! We do not need this kind Allah.period,
Do you think we Ismailis praying our Dua is not a Namaz? If not then what is it? Why you left this true path in search of Gumrahi?
When Muslims are still can not find which namaz type is right and which is wrong and therefore they accusing one other and they kill each other at this time you advise how to pray namaz¿ When you do not know? Which namaz is right and which is not ?
find the answer
Which type Namaz you follow or performs?
A closed palms one, which Shia performs
Or
Open palms and open hands? Which Sunny perform?
Are close plams namaz does not reach to your Allah? Or only open hands reaches to Allah! We do not need this kind Allah.period,
Do you think we Ismailis praying our Dua is not a Namaz? If not then what is it? Why you left this true path in search of Gumrahi?
When Muslims are still can not find which namaz type is right and which is wrong and therefore they accusing one other and they kill each other at this time you advise how to pray namaz¿ When you do not know? Which namaz is right and which is not ?
find the answer
Dear Kmaherali,
You mentioned a web site to read about the background of Ja'fari madhhab is not available. It shows server error or discotinued.
You quoted Hadith Thaqalyn; I believe in that because we need Imam to interpret the Quran and Tariqa according to changing times. I have quoted a Farman of H I made on August 17, 2007 on this subject in one of my postings.
You wrote Imam al Baqer and Imam Ja'far Sadiq were not innovators. Correct, they were interpretors of Quran and Tariqa. Why I quoted Ja'fari tariqa; because our Imam in
Jordon mentioned it. Imam told the ummah that His follower practice Ja'fari tariqa. Ja'fari tariqa was practiced in time of Fatmid period. In late 70s the buzzing word in Karachi was that we are going to adopt Fatimi tariqa. Any how; you quoted," the form of madhhab can change according to times. We do not adhere to the form of worship 1000
years ago." Now some paricipants of this site wrote," Quran is 1400 years old out dated book!" As you mentiond" we do not have to adhere to the form of worship to some 1000 years back." Same way with out annoying any one, I can say ginans are also 700 years old why to follow? ( I respect ginans as religious, sufi, and ethical poetry or Bhajans, which Imam calls wonderful tradition.)
Km. " HUM HAE(N) NAEY, TOU ANDAAZ KIUN HO PURANA."
KALEY BHOJAN JAMIYA TEENA AAJEY SHA WAKHAN REY.
Regarding one tariqa; I believe obey Allah, obey Rasul, obey Ullil Amar ( Imam ) as mentioned in 2nd part of Du'a. We need to understand the philosophy of Du'a. By the way
hardly 80% of khojas know what are usulat e din and furu'at e din!
You wrote," intention of namaz was not to replace Du'a." Km, I never said that, it is a wrong impression. What I wanted to say was, 6+ years passed ITREB is unable to
implement order of Imam and they are confused. The reason is, starting both at a time or one after other is difficult. There are many other problems too, which we can discuss
separately.
The reply to your query," What are the sensitive matters that you are reffering to." Km, please read my 2nd March posting above in this thread.
You mentioned a web site to read about the background of Ja'fari madhhab is not available. It shows server error or discotinued.
You quoted Hadith Thaqalyn; I believe in that because we need Imam to interpret the Quran and Tariqa according to changing times. I have quoted a Farman of H I made on August 17, 2007 on this subject in one of my postings.
You wrote Imam al Baqer and Imam Ja'far Sadiq were not innovators. Correct, they were interpretors of Quran and Tariqa. Why I quoted Ja'fari tariqa; because our Imam in
Jordon mentioned it. Imam told the ummah that His follower practice Ja'fari tariqa. Ja'fari tariqa was practiced in time of Fatmid period. In late 70s the buzzing word in Karachi was that we are going to adopt Fatimi tariqa. Any how; you quoted," the form of madhhab can change according to times. We do not adhere to the form of worship 1000
years ago." Now some paricipants of this site wrote," Quran is 1400 years old out dated book!" As you mentiond" we do not have to adhere to the form of worship to some 1000 years back." Same way with out annoying any one, I can say ginans are also 700 years old why to follow? ( I respect ginans as religious, sufi, and ethical poetry or Bhajans, which Imam calls wonderful tradition.)
Km. " HUM HAE(N) NAEY, TOU ANDAAZ KIUN HO PURANA."
KALEY BHOJAN JAMIYA TEENA AAJEY SHA WAKHAN REY.
Regarding one tariqa; I believe obey Allah, obey Rasul, obey Ullil Amar ( Imam ) as mentioned in 2nd part of Du'a. We need to understand the philosophy of Du'a. By the way
hardly 80% of khojas know what are usulat e din and furu'at e din!
You wrote," intention of namaz was not to replace Du'a." Km, I never said that, it is a wrong impression. What I wanted to say was, 6+ years passed ITREB is unable to
implement order of Imam and they are confused. The reason is, starting both at a time or one after other is difficult. There are many other problems too, which we can discuss
separately.
The reply to your query," What are the sensitive matters that you are reffering to." Km, please read my 2nd March posting above in this thread.
Sorry to hear your cry but but do you know that Imam Hanifa was a disciples of Imam Jaffer Sadiq (s.a)? And he had learned an alphabet from an Ismaili Imam name Jaffer Sadiq?
You can send me pm or shoot me an email what you wrote and Admin deleted it.
I will answer you .
si, but I will not tell anybody whether you are an ismaili or woh!......
do you know Hanifa is not his own name?
I bet you don't so read history first.
You can send me pm or shoot me an email what you wrote and Admin deleted it.
I will answer you .
si, but I will not tell anybody whether you are an ismaili or woh!......
do you know Hanifa is not his own name?
I bet you don't so read history first.
Your ignorance about Salat/Namaaz is amazing.agakhani wrote:ZZNoor,
Which type Namaz you follow or performs?
A closed palms one, which Shia performs
Or
Open palms and open hands? Which Sunny perform?
Are close plams namaz does not reach to your Allah? Or only open hands reaches to Allah! We do not need this kind Allah.period,
Do you think we Ismailis praying our Dua is not a Namaz? If not then what is it? Why you left this true path in search of Gumrahi?
When Muslims are still can not find which namaz type is right and which is wrong and therefore they accusing one other and they kill each other at this time you advise how to pray namaz¿ When you do not know? Which namaz is right and which is not ?
find the answer
Command to perform Salat is mentioned in Quran many times. Wadu is mentioned in Quran. 5 prayers were given to Prohet by Allah. Number of Rakats in each prayers and timings are established Sunna. Both Shia and Sunni way of praying is valid. Ismaili Dua is not Muslim Salat.
No Imam, Mulla, scholar or saint can cancel or change Islmic Salat, Swam and Hajj.
When I pray with Shia I pray their way and with Sunni their way.
This is the way a Imam ( I can find his name if you want) who was visiting Imam Malik's mosque prayed his way.
Hear in Boston I see all 5 Madhab way prayed in same mosque and nobody says peep about it.
Let us not ruin this thread
I have copied the whole article in the forum at:mazhar wrote:Dear Kmaherali,
You mentioned a web site to read about the background of Ja'fari madhhab is not available. It shows server error or discotinued. .
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 02&start=0
Please go there. It is at the bottom of the page
I think we have to first follow the Farmans of the Imam and then try to gain understanding from the Qur’an and the Ginans. Of course we also need to use our intellects to determine what is valid and what is not valid in a literal sense and how to interpret them according to our times.mazhar wrote:Now some paricipants of this site wrote," Quran is 1400 years old out dated book!" As you mentiond" we do not have to adhere to the form of worship to some 1000 years back." Same way with out annoying any one, I can say ginans are also 700 years old why to follow? ( I respect ginans as religious, sufi, and ethical poetry or Bhajans, which Imam calls wonderful tradition.)
Km. " HUM HAE(N) NAEY, TOU ANDAAZ KIUN HO PURANA."
KALEY BHOJAN JAMIYA TEENA AAJEY SHA WAKHAN REY. .
There is nothing sensitive in the post. It is about our rituals and ethics which are well known, nothing to hide.mazhar wrote:The reply to your query," What are the sensitive matters that you are reffering to." Km, please read my 2nd March posting above in this thread.
Because there is no need to change now it again because the damaged is alreafy made and it has been already changed and stolen from "Parsi prayers": many Parsis are accusing that Islamic namaz is stolen from their prayer!!. we already discussed this topic so read it if you want to.No Imam, Mulla, scholar or saint can cancel or change Islmic Salat, Swam and Hajj.
Here in Texas and specially in Austin and Houston it is a opposite scenario, Shia and Sunny has their separate mosque!! and they are keep contempt and hating each others I know a person he is strict Muslim once he was travelling and shows a Mosque, it was time of prayer so he went in hurry without checking whether it was Shia or Sunni mosque and started his namaz but after 2 Rakats he find out that he came in Shia Mosque so left that mosque without performing full namaz!!!Hear in Boston I see all 5 Madhab way prayed in same mosque and nobody says peep about it.
saying: la hol walla kuwwat!!! and accused Allah to brought him over there in wrong mosque!! kya kare Texas ke Muslims aise hai!!I, have noticed that many Suunies in Texas do not even reply the salam I already gave my own example about my neighbor she is not answering my salam even now, when I have even wear shirts!! ( I know exact word of salam so keep your damn mouth shut) they accuse Shias and Ismailis saying they believes in Imamats so they are not 100% Muslims!!! !!
Lo ji kar lo gal!!!
And would you please state what is your position in the statistic committee and wen you were appointed to do this calculation and make this judgement against half of the Ismaili World?? And after that you are still surprised that your posts are mostly deleted because either you criticise the Ismailis or you bring here your personal dispute? What about reading the rules of posting?mazhar wrote: Imam made Farman 7 years back ... but half Ismaili world is not obeying.
Mazhar I don't know about this statement about Juma namaz. My mother absolutely freaked when she heard that i was learning about namaz when I was a kid. Given in Pakistan some Sunnis tended to shove their ideology down our throats when we were in school. I also know that one of our step teacher's son was kicked out of school mearly for mentioning Aly Allah. The kid was less then 5 years old.mazhar wrote:Aghakhani, reply to your recent babbling post, in brief, you wrote," Whether you are an Ismaili or woh----? Do you know real name of Abu Hanifa? I bet you don't read history."
Ak, I don't need your certificate to be called an Ismaili. Those who know me know me well. The answer for your woh is," Rishtey me tou hum tumharey lagtey ------------" Regarding your 2nd question, the name of Abu Hanifa is NOAMAN BIN SABIT, and he was student of Imam Ja'far Sadiq. He started his school of thought., which is sunni hanafi tariqa. For your information, long ago before partition of sub continent MSMS had allowed sunni hanafi tariqa to follow in India, Pakistan and Middle East regions.
Our janaza namaz, eid namaz, juma namaz fateha etc were according to sunni hanafi tariqa till late 60s. Your 3rd question, yes I know history well better than you. I am not a dumb person like you, which try to show I am some body. Aghakhani tum dabbey me kankar ki tarah ho, jo sirf bajta rahta hai. Shorr ziyada machatey ho lekin aata jaata kuchh bhi nahen.
Mazhar due to your recent posts your motives are coming into question. Exactly what is your angle? You are obsessed with namaz and our rituals. Ismailignosis gave you detailed answers in the past but you seem to skirt around the issues.
I would mention to you that nothing happens inside jamatkhana without the Imam knowing about it. If the imam wanted namaz inside the Jk we would have namaz inside. Since we don't have namaz therefore for me the imam does not want namaz for us at this point in time, not because you have according to you an incompetent Itreb.
Quote by Fayyaz, "Mazhar I don't know about this statement about Juma namaz. My mother absolutely freaked when she heard that i was learning about namaz when I was a kid. Given in Pakistan some Sunnis tended to shove their ideology down our throats when we were in school. I also know that one of our step teacher's son was kicked out of school mearly for mentioning Aly Allah. The kid was less then 5 years old.
Mazhar due to your recent posts your motives are coming into question. Exactly what is your angle? You are obsessed with namaz and our rituals. Ismailignosis gave you detailed answers in the past but you seem to skirt around the issues.
I would mention to you that nothing happens inside jamatkhana without the Imam knowing about it. If the imam wanted namaz inside the Jk we would have namaz inside. Since we don't have namaz therefore for me the imam does not want namaz for us at this point in time, not because you have according to you an incompetent Itreb."
Fayyaz, looks like you are not reading my posts completely. In my previous couple of posts in some other threads I have posted my beliefs. Once again I am repeating.
Personally I am neither sunni nor shia but a humble follower of HI. I obey Farmans of the present Imam.
According to 2nd part of Du'a, I believe obey Allah, obey Rasul, and obey Ulil Amr ( Imam ).
ALLAH ( Wa lamya kulahu kufuwan Ahad, there is no comparison to Allah in universe.)
Rasul ( Quran )
Imam ( Farman )
I do not believe Imam as God but Wasila or Zariya to union with Allah. Also I do believe he is interpretor of Tariqa.
I am not a reformer or innovator to introduce new norms in tariqa. So far I have discussed the things from printed and published material on Ismailism. The name of this site is " ISMAILI HERITAGE " means all the related topics and aspects of Ismailism can be discussed on this site. I am asking the questions hardly any one asked so openly, that's why it is bothering to many participants.
I do not understand why khojas are freaking with the word namaz The word namaz is used by MHI. The word namaz is used in kalam e mowla, used in ginans and used in Farmans. We say janaza namaz, eid namaz, juma namaz, we don't shy but with word regular namaz we freak. Still to day in Karachi and at other places in Pakistan Ismailis offer Juma namaz. I gave ref. of MHI's Farman made 6 years back, read that Farman completely and properly, implementing is work of ITREB.
In my opinion, ITREB's are failures other wise thousands of Ismailis would not have left Ismailism in past many years. amongst them are highly educated persons and high profile families, even having titles like ALIJAHS, RAIS, AND AITAMADIS!
Some one think why this exodus to other tariqas, are they more attractive or have better philisophy.
Mazhar due to your recent posts your motives are coming into question. Exactly what is your angle? You are obsessed with namaz and our rituals. Ismailignosis gave you detailed answers in the past but you seem to skirt around the issues.
I would mention to you that nothing happens inside jamatkhana without the Imam knowing about it. If the imam wanted namaz inside the Jk we would have namaz inside. Since we don't have namaz therefore for me the imam does not want namaz for us at this point in time, not because you have according to you an incompetent Itreb."
Fayyaz, looks like you are not reading my posts completely. In my previous couple of posts in some other threads I have posted my beliefs. Once again I am repeating.
Personally I am neither sunni nor shia but a humble follower of HI. I obey Farmans of the present Imam.
According to 2nd part of Du'a, I believe obey Allah, obey Rasul, and obey Ulil Amr ( Imam ).
ALLAH ( Wa lamya kulahu kufuwan Ahad, there is no comparison to Allah in universe.)
Rasul ( Quran )
Imam ( Farman )
I do not believe Imam as God but Wasila or Zariya to union with Allah. Also I do believe he is interpretor of Tariqa.
I am not a reformer or innovator to introduce new norms in tariqa. So far I have discussed the things from printed and published material on Ismailism. The name of this site is " ISMAILI HERITAGE " means all the related topics and aspects of Ismailism can be discussed on this site. I am asking the questions hardly any one asked so openly, that's why it is bothering to many participants.
I do not understand why khojas are freaking with the word namaz The word namaz is used by MHI. The word namaz is used in kalam e mowla, used in ginans and used in Farmans. We say janaza namaz, eid namaz, juma namaz, we don't shy but with word regular namaz we freak. Still to day in Karachi and at other places in Pakistan Ismailis offer Juma namaz. I gave ref. of MHI's Farman made 6 years back, read that Farman completely and properly, implementing is work of ITREB.
In my opinion, ITREB's are failures other wise thousands of Ismailis would not have left Ismailism in past many years. amongst them are highly educated persons and high profile families, even having titles like ALIJAHS, RAIS, AND AITAMADIS!
Some one think why this exodus to other tariqas, are they more attractive or have better philisophy.
There is no exodus from ismaili Tariqa but if it happens, the Imam will welcome it because he is not looking for quantity but quality. When he became Imam, he was asked by a journalist if we wanted to increase the number of Ismailis and he replied absolutely not!mazhar wrote: Some one think why this exodus to other tariqas, are they more attractive or have better philisophy.
Absolutely wrong!ITREB's are failures other wise thousands of Ismailis would not have left Ismailism in past many years. amongst them are highly educated persons and high profile families, even having titles like ALIJAHS, RAIS, AND AITAMADIS!
NEITHER, ITREB, ISMAILIA ASSOCIATIONS NOR RECREATION CLUB HAS BEEN FAILED BUT THE MURIDS HAS BEEN FAILED TIMES TO TIME! no matter they had Alijah, Itmadi or Rai titeles. and it is nothing new in Ismaili religions!
The first departure took place during H. Imam Hasan Ali Shah, that group didn't liked to give dasonds so they left our religion and sued H. Imam Hasan Ali Shah but they lost big time, these group called as 'BARBHAYA'
Second group departed from our religion during SMS' time right now they called them selves as 'KHOJA ISHANASHARI JAMAT' and now a days they realized their mistakes and try to come back in Ismaili sect. but it is too late for the,.
Also some peoples from Pakistan also left this true sect in 80 -90 in Karimabad . Karachi.
But this is nothing new in this sect, peoples comes and goes!! and will come and goes in future because it has been quoted in ginans
'THAR THAR MOMAN BHAI KOI KOI RAHESHE JI"
"AMARA GHAR NA DARWAJA KHULLA CHHE, JENE AAVVU HOY TE AAVE ANE JENE JAVY HOY TO JAYE" sms but not a exact wordings.
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EJI, SATPANTH SACHA NE
RIKHISAR KHOTA,
ANE HOYSHE TE KHOTA NE KHOT JI....
Indeed, MSMS once told a murid (I think it was Dr. Nathoo) that Ismailism will survive even if there is only ONE Ismaili!Admin wrote:There is no exodus from ismaili Tariqa but if it happens, the Imam will welcome it because he is not looking for quantity but quality. When he became Imam, he was asked by a journalist if we wanted to increase the number of Ismailis and he replied absolutely not!