Islam is a simple and plain Religion, and so is Shia Imami Ismaili Tariqa. Being a muslim the basic tenets of Islam are mentioned in the preamble of our Ismaili constitution by Hazar Imam. I quote here the first article of preamble." The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm Shahadah,' La ilaha illallah Muhammadur Rasulullah,' the Tawheed there in and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet PBUH through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spritual and temporal matters." We Ismailis must follow the tenets of Islam as mentioned by Hazar Imam. Now the best way to under stand the Shia Imami Ismaili Tariqa and doctrines (in my opinion) is to learn the meaning of our Du'a, which will solve many questions usually asked by our youngisters as well as non ismailis. Hazar Imam on many occasions has insisted to learn the meaning of Du'a. In Du'a we use the word 'bi haqqi' which is most important.Bi haqqi means in the name of or on behalf, and in Urdu means tufail, wasiley se, or sadqe me(n).Now carefully understand the word bi haqqi in part 6 of Du'a. Allahuma bi haqqi Muhammadinil Mustafa wa Aliyinil-------------- or
Allahuma bi haqqi Moulana Ali, Moulanal Hussain,--------------( which means Ya Allah moula Ali ke sadqe me(n), moula Hussain ke sadke me(n), or
last paragraph, wa bi haqqi Moulana wa Imaminal hadhiril moujud Shah Karim-------------( hamarey hazar wa moujud Imam shah Karim ke sadqe me(n)----- Hence in our Du'a we pray to Allah to forgive our sins and have mercy on us in the name of Ahlebait, our Holy Imams and in the name of our present Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini. Now there is serious contradiction of du'a guzari whicw is done inJK and the wordings of Du'a which is the foundation of our Tariqa . We Ismailis always follow the hidayat of present Imam of the time. Please think and reflect.
first article of preamble of Ismaili Constitution
There is no contradiction at all. It is a matter of individual faith and personal interpretation.
Ismailism does not believe in rigidity like the other branches of Islam.
Our faith is a perpetual initiation and the Imam is providing that initiation to whom he wants when he wants.
I believe we are THE Islam and all others are branches who separated from the Imam's Sirat ul Mustaqueem.
To those who will reply, please stick to the thread, the first article of the Ismaili Constitution. Dua interpretation is not part of this thread it should be discussed in the appropriate thread.
Ismailism does not believe in rigidity like the other branches of Islam.
Our faith is a perpetual initiation and the Imam is providing that initiation to whom he wants when he wants.
I believe we are THE Islam and all others are branches who separated from the Imam's Sirat ul Mustaqueem.
To those who will reply, please stick to the thread, the first article of the Ismaili Constitution. Dua interpretation is not part of this thread it should be discussed in the appropriate thread.
Re: first article of preamble
First of all we must realize that our Tariqah is an esoteric tradition. Like all esoteric traditions, we have the zahir and the batin. This was reiterated by MHI in his Farman to the Syrian Jamat May 8, 1980: "Remember also that with regard to the interpretation of our faith, that which is Batin is Batin, that which is Zahir is Zahir. Remember that this is fundamental."mazhar wrote: Now there is serious contradiction of du'a guzari whicw is done inJK and the wordings of Du'a which is the foundation of our Tariqa . We Ismailis always follow the hidayat of present Imam of the time. Please think and reflect.
The Zahir is our constitution and our Dua. It is through these that we articulate our principles to the rest of the world. The Batin is what we murids articulate within our tradition for the murids only. Hence all our traditions i.e the various ceremonies, Ginans, and Qasidas represent the Batin of our tradition. There is therefore no contradiction so long as this Zahir/Batin dichotomy is understood.
In your last post which was deleted, you raised the question about the status of Imam. Please go to the thread below for more...
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... te&p=47783
To Mazhar:Ya Ali Madad.
You have copy pasted the preamble of the constitution.I have been given to understand it took almost 3 years for the appointed drafting committee to draft the preamble with final important word inputs from MHI.
I have few questions on the wording on 'as it is' basis.
My first two questions are.
1.) Why is word affirm used instead of the word 'abide' or' confirm' used in the first line????
2.) after the Shahadah the words are completed the Tawhid there in.
can you please tell us what does 'TAWHID THERE IN' means as it is along with the Shahadah.
My next set of questions will be posted upon reply to the first two ones.
Copy pasting is easy,but the true interpretation may be not
You have copy pasted the preamble of the constitution.I have been given to understand it took almost 3 years for the appointed drafting committee to draft the preamble with final important word inputs from MHI.
I have few questions on the wording on 'as it is' basis.
My first two questions are.
1.) Why is word affirm used instead of the word 'abide' or' confirm' used in the first line????
2.) after the Shahadah the words are completed the Tawhid there in.
can you please tell us what does 'TAWHID THERE IN' means as it is along with the Shahadah.
My next set of questions will be posted upon reply to the first two ones.
Copy pasting is easy,but the true interpretation may be not
Re: first article of preamble
The Zahir is our constitution and our Dua. It is through these that we articulate our principles to the rest of the world. The Batin is what we murids articulate within our tradition for the murids only. Hence all our traditions i.e the various ceremonies, Ginans, and Qasidas represent the Batin of our tradition. There is therefore no contradiction so long as this Zahir/Batin dichotomy is understood.
Km i have a slight disagreement with you here. Dua does not only covey the Zahiri concepts of our faith but it also conveys batini aspects as well. It is the foundation of our faith in both the zahiri sense and batini sense.
Mazar there are no contradictions between dua karavi and our dua. In the dua, that you recite, you mention that the Imam of the time is the Hujjat of God, and the Lord of the age and time. Therefore in dua karevi you are asking forgiveness of God through his Hujjat. Remember as per the Quran, God did not forgive those who the Prophet himself did not forgive. Hence the dua karevi practices.
Km i have a slight disagreement with you here. Dua does not only covey the Zahiri concepts of our faith but it also conveys batini aspects as well. It is the foundation of our faith in both the zahiri sense and batini sense.
Mazar there are no contradictions between dua karavi and our dua. In the dua, that you recite, you mention that the Imam of the time is the Hujjat of God, and the Lord of the age and time. Therefore in dua karevi you are asking forgiveness of God through his Hujjat. Remember as per the Quran, God did not forgive those who the Prophet himself did not forgive. Hence the dua karevi practices.
This thread will be transferred under the Ismaili Law section in a couple of days because it looks like the discussion will be interesting and we should also have in that section discussions on each articles so that we all understand what really our Constitution wanted to achieve and how the respect of it can propel our community.
The Constitution is an enabling document but only if we understand its content. If a position in our community requires one to take an Oath of Office to protect the Constitution, it means the Constitution has first to be read and understood and then only implemented.
The Constitution is an enabling document but only if we understand its content. If a position in our community requires one to take an Oath of Office to protect the Constitution, it means the Constitution has first to be read and understood and then only implemented.
Dear Administration,
Thanx for not deleting this posting as previous one. while discussing any Ismaili aspect,Iusually use the material already published by IIS, ITREB,
ISMAILIA ASSOCIASIONS. any Ismaili forums or Heritage.I agree with you that Ismaili Tariqa is not rigid, also I do not mind with the personal interpretation of any individual. Hazar Imam has mentioned the first article of preamble clearly and in simple wordings so that every Ismaili can understand. This is not a rocket science or a complicated mathematical equation. These are the basic tenets of Islam which are accepted by Muslim Ummah, and being a muslim we have to accept it.
I wished the decisions made in 1975 in the Ismailia Associations of the world conference in Paris with the approval of Hazar Imam should have been made public and announced with complete draft and decisions made and concluded, so today we do not have such problems.
Thanx for not deleting this posting as previous one. while discussing any Ismaili aspect,Iusually use the material already published by IIS, ITREB,
ISMAILIA ASSOCIASIONS. any Ismaili forums or Heritage.I agree with you that Ismaili Tariqa is not rigid, also I do not mind with the personal interpretation of any individual. Hazar Imam has mentioned the first article of preamble clearly and in simple wordings so that every Ismaili can understand. This is not a rocket science or a complicated mathematical equation. These are the basic tenets of Islam which are accepted by Muslim Ummah, and being a muslim we have to accept it.
I wished the decisions made in 1975 in the Ismailia Associations of the world conference in Paris with the approval of Hazar Imam should have been made public and announced with complete draft and decisions made and concluded, so today we do not have such problems.
Dear Nuseri,
For your first and second questions; you have already mentioned in your post that,"it took almost 3 yrs for the appointed drafting committee to draft the preamble with the final important WORDS input from MHI."So both the words that is "affirm" and " tawheed" are inputs by Imam of the time.Please consult dictionary where affirm means, to maintain to be true,
to assert, to uphold or to confirm. Hence we Ismaili uphold and confirm the basic articles of faith as mentioned by Hazar Imam. The word Shahadah is from shaheed which in Arabic means witness and not as used in Urdu or in Hindi languages. In Shahadah I witness and affirm Tawheed which means" there is no god but ALLAH, and Prophet MUHAMMAD is His RASUL" Tawheed is complete when we believe in both
ALLAH and His RASUL.
For your first and second questions; you have already mentioned in your post that,"it took almost 3 yrs for the appointed drafting committee to draft the preamble with the final important WORDS input from MHI."So both the words that is "affirm" and " tawheed" are inputs by Imam of the time.Please consult dictionary where affirm means, to maintain to be true,
to assert, to uphold or to confirm. Hence we Ismaili uphold and confirm the basic articles of faith as mentioned by Hazar Imam. The word Shahadah is from shaheed which in Arabic means witness and not as used in Urdu or in Hindi languages. In Shahadah I witness and affirm Tawheed which means" there is no god but ALLAH, and Prophet MUHAMMAD is His RASUL" Tawheed is complete when we believe in both
ALLAH and His RASUL.
Dear kmaherali,
I know you are a knowledgable person and have vast information.
I agree with your statement that the zahir is our constitution and our Du'a,
and both are given by Hazar Imam. In preamble basic and fundamental tenets are explained in simple and plain language so every Ismaili can understand. Hazar Imam does not want his followers to be confused.
Regading zahir and batin; in my view there are two levels of our Tariqa.
Upper level is Baitulkhayal (batini) and lower level is regular ceremonies
in JK(zahiri) including Holy Du'a and du'a guzari, majalis, ziarat ,fateha,---
Upper level is confidential and lower level is common for all. Upper level is not obligatory for all Ismailis. Be honest how many Ismailis attend Baitulkhayal early in the morning or at home getting up early morning and doing Zikar attentively. What will be the percentage? Now the problem is that our big guys and some others have mixed up both levels and created confusion and misunderstanding. You gave reference regarding my deleted posting by Admins about status of HI, Let me assure you, Hazar Imam never claimed to be God if you have any proof please provide me.Hazar Imam usually uses the phrase INSHA ALLAH.
I know you are a knowledgable person and have vast information.
I agree with your statement that the zahir is our constitution and our Du'a,
and both are given by Hazar Imam. In preamble basic and fundamental tenets are explained in simple and plain language so every Ismaili can understand. Hazar Imam does not want his followers to be confused.
Regading zahir and batin; in my view there are two levels of our Tariqa.
Upper level is Baitulkhayal (batini) and lower level is regular ceremonies
in JK(zahiri) including Holy Du'a and du'a guzari, majalis, ziarat ,fateha,---
Upper level is confidential and lower level is common for all. Upper level is not obligatory for all Ismailis. Be honest how many Ismailis attend Baitulkhayal early in the morning or at home getting up early morning and doing Zikar attentively. What will be the percentage? Now the problem is that our big guys and some others have mixed up both levels and created confusion and misunderstanding. You gave reference regarding my deleted posting by Admins about status of HI, Let me assure you, Hazar Imam never claimed to be God if you have any proof please provide me.Hazar Imam usually uses the phrase INSHA ALLAH.
Dear Fayaz006,
I stand by my statement that there is contradiction in the wordings of 6th part of our Du'a, and wordings of dua guzari/dua karawi.You have admitted in your posting, let me quote here,"there fore in dua karawi you are asking forgiveness of God through Hujjat." Please understand the meaning of the 6th part of Du'a, the word "bi haqqi" is use there 3 times.
Refer to my first post. After sura IKHLAS, the words are ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI MUHAMMADINIL MUSTAFA WA ALIYINIL MURTADHA---------
ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI MOULANA ALI, MOULANAL HUSSAIN--------
WA BI HAQQI MOULANA WA IMAMINAL HADHRIL MOUJUD SHAH KARIM---
Meaning of last paragraph of 6th part( YA ALLAH) HAMAREY HAZAR WA MOUJUD IMAM SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAINI KEY SADQE ME(N) HAM PER RAHIM FARMA WA HAMARI MAGFIRAT FARMA. In our Holy Du'a we are begging ALLAH for forgiveness, why not while du'a karawi we say ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI AHLBAIT WA HUJJAT AMAR IMAM E ZAMAAN HAMAREY-----------
I stand by my statement that there is contradiction in the wordings of 6th part of our Du'a, and wordings of dua guzari/dua karawi.You have admitted in your posting, let me quote here,"there fore in dua karawi you are asking forgiveness of God through Hujjat." Please understand the meaning of the 6th part of Du'a, the word "bi haqqi" is use there 3 times.
Refer to my first post. After sura IKHLAS, the words are ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI MUHAMMADINIL MUSTAFA WA ALIYINIL MURTADHA---------
ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI MOULANA ALI, MOULANAL HUSSAIN--------
WA BI HAQQI MOULANA WA IMAMINAL HADHRIL MOUJUD SHAH KARIM---
Meaning of last paragraph of 6th part( YA ALLAH) HAMAREY HAZAR WA MOUJUD IMAM SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAINI KEY SADQE ME(N) HAM PER RAHIM FARMA WA HAMARI MAGFIRAT FARMA. In our Holy Du'a we are begging ALLAH for forgiveness, why not while du'a karawi we say ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI AHLBAIT WA HUJJAT AMAR IMAM E ZAMAAN HAMAREY-----------
To Mazhar:Ya Ali madad.
can you please retype the word taweed n towhid (clarity needed) as both has different meanings .one is proof n othere mean unity with god,that is baatin aspect.
We are ordained by MHI TO RECITE THE FULL KALIMA 3 times a day in our tasbih.
I have explained the deeper meaning of kalima in topic by the same.
Our constitution is not a No brainer document made by road side typist or a zahiri donkey in one month.
There IS a LAND MARK FARMAN of Imam Aga Ali Shah
is which he said.
ALI THI ALLAH ,ALLAH TEJ ALI.
Ameen khudavind was immediate response to it.
there are many farman of Imam SMS in this regard.
It took me one month to understand n expand the first three words.
the next three word reaffirms it Allah that is only ALI.
for any person with common sense that the entity is ALI here n Allah is just the front word or signature name of from/out of ALI.( no two entity, but one entity with dual names).
it mean Allah is nothing but ALI or ALI plus nothing(lah)
It give a logical conclusion that Allah=Ali+lah.
If the first three words of Imam are correct than I feel that my
equation is 100% correct.
Even when MHI/ALI/GOD says
'My dear spiritual children'.
he is discreetly affirming that he is GOD.
see my posting on it.
can you please retype the word taweed n towhid (clarity needed) as both has different meanings .one is proof n othere mean unity with god,that is baatin aspect.
We are ordained by MHI TO RECITE THE FULL KALIMA 3 times a day in our tasbih.
I have explained the deeper meaning of kalima in topic by the same.
Our constitution is not a No brainer document made by road side typist or a zahiri donkey in one month.
There IS a LAND MARK FARMAN of Imam Aga Ali Shah
is which he said.
ALI THI ALLAH ,ALLAH TEJ ALI.
Ameen khudavind was immediate response to it.
there are many farman of Imam SMS in this regard.
It took me one month to understand n expand the first three words.
the next three word reaffirms it Allah that is only ALI.
for any person with common sense that the entity is ALI here n Allah is just the front word or signature name of from/out of ALI.( no two entity, but one entity with dual names).
it mean Allah is nothing but ALI or ALI plus nothing(lah)
It give a logical conclusion that Allah=Ali+lah.
If the first three words of Imam are correct than I feel that my
equation is 100% correct.
Even when MHI/ALI/GOD says
'My dear spiritual children'.
he is discreetly affirming that he is GOD.
see my posting on it.
Mazhar wrote
Thanks.
Mazhar you have asked a pretty loaded question and it really doesn't do the question any justice to provide a very short answer. I would try anyways but i would suggest that you start a new thread about Dua and its meaning and its relationship to our other religious practices.
You mentioned that on the surface there is a contradiction between the 6th part of the dua and our dua karavi practices. You would be correct if you took the 6th part in isolation. However dua is not only the 6th part, it is all the parts combined. And you would have to study and understand the meaning of each and every one of them to truly understand the construction of our Dua. For example i will point you towards 2nd, 3rd, 4rth, and 5th part to give you an understand of what the Imam means to the Ismailis.
The Imam being the Hujjat of God, is also then considered the proof of the authority of God. Therefore the Imam is considered the "Hand of God" and, "Face of God" according to the Holy Quran.
Also a back story about one of our Imams named al- Muiz (Fatimid times). During Imam al-Muiz's time, various Ismaili philosophers came to a consensus that God, being the One (Greek term), was beyond any attribute, beyond any understanding and therefore One. That is expressed in Sura Ikhlas and this type of philosophy is called monorealism.
Therefore as per Qadi Numan and other Ismaili philosophers, and various other Pirs who started the Dawa in Sindh in 10th century, the only way to know God, was to know the Imam. The logic then follows that the only way to ask forgiveness from God would be to ask forgiveness from the Imam, who is the Hand and Face of God (As per various other Quranic Ayats). You recite that Ali "Master of believers", is from God in the 2nd part. I have only given you only a small part of the philosophy that our dua contains and on which our other practices are founded on. Again our dua karavi practices do not violate Ikhlas, if you ask me, Ismailism is one of the few tariqas that maintains Ikhlas in its purity.
Mazhar you mentioned that Islam is a very simple religion. In reality it is anything but simple. You would not have such plurality of opinion if it was simple.
Dear Admin, i fear that my responses would take the thread away from our constitution and towards the meaning of our dua. I will not mind if you decide to delete or move the post.mazhar wrote:Dear Fayaz006,
I stand by my statement that there is contradiction in the wordings of 6th part of our Du'a, and wordings of dua guzari/dua karawi.You have admitted in your posting, let me quote here,"there fore in dua karawi you are asking forgiveness of God through Hujjat." Please understand the meaning of the 6th part of Du'a, the word "bi haqqi" is use there 3 times.
Refer to my first post. After sura IKHLAS, the words are ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI MUHAMMADINIL MUSTAFA WA ALIYINIL MURTADHA---------
ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI MOULANA ALI, MOULANAL HUSSAIN--------
WA BI HAQQI MOULANA WA IMAMINAL HADHRIL MOUJUD SHAH KARIM---
Meaning of last paragraph of 6th part( YA ALLAH) HAMAREY HAZAR WA MOUJUD IMAM SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAINI KEY SADQE ME(N) HAM PER RAHIM FARMA WA HAMARI MAGFIRAT FARMA. In our Holy Du'a we are begging ALLAH for forgiveness, why not while du'a karawi we say ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI AHLBAIT WA HUJJAT AMAR IMAM E ZAMAAN HAMAREY-----------
Thanks.
Mazhar you have asked a pretty loaded question and it really doesn't do the question any justice to provide a very short answer. I would try anyways but i would suggest that you start a new thread about Dua and its meaning and its relationship to our other religious practices.
You mentioned that on the surface there is a contradiction between the 6th part of the dua and our dua karavi practices. You would be correct if you took the 6th part in isolation. However dua is not only the 6th part, it is all the parts combined. And you would have to study and understand the meaning of each and every one of them to truly understand the construction of our Dua. For example i will point you towards 2nd, 3rd, 4rth, and 5th part to give you an understand of what the Imam means to the Ismailis.
The Imam being the Hujjat of God, is also then considered the proof of the authority of God. Therefore the Imam is considered the "Hand of God" and, "Face of God" according to the Holy Quran.
Also a back story about one of our Imams named al- Muiz (Fatimid times). During Imam al-Muiz's time, various Ismaili philosophers came to a consensus that God, being the One (Greek term), was beyond any attribute, beyond any understanding and therefore One. That is expressed in Sura Ikhlas and this type of philosophy is called monorealism.
Therefore as per Qadi Numan and other Ismaili philosophers, and various other Pirs who started the Dawa in Sindh in 10th century, the only way to know God, was to know the Imam. The logic then follows that the only way to ask forgiveness from God would be to ask forgiveness from the Imam, who is the Hand and Face of God (As per various other Quranic Ayats). You recite that Ali "Master of believers", is from God in the 2nd part. I have only given you only a small part of the philosophy that our dua contains and on which our other practices are founded on. Again our dua karavi practices do not violate Ikhlas, if you ask me, Ismailism is one of the few tariqas that maintains Ikhlas in its purity.
Mazhar you mentioned that Islam is a very simple religion. In reality it is anything but simple. You would not have such plurality of opinion if it was simple.
In the Sunday Times interview MHI stated:mazhar wrote:You gave reference regarding my deleted posting by Admins about status of HI, Let me assure you, Hazar Imam never claimed to be God if you have any proof please provide me.Hazar Imam usually uses the phrase INSHA ALLAH.
"Yes. Since My grand-father, the last Aga Khan, died, I have been the bearer of the "NOOR" a word which means "The Light" The NOOR has been handed down in direct descent from the Prophet. But My work and responsibilities overflow into the practical side of life."
http://www.ismaili.net/intervue/651212.html
The Qur'anic Ayat states:
Allah is the NOOR of the heavens and the earth.
When you combine the two statements above, you get Imam is the bearer of Allah.
Dearkmaherali,
With your reference to Sunday Times interview of HAZAR IMAM on
Dec12, 1965, where He replied to a question about IMAMAT saying He is the bearer of NOOR. Now with due respect, in the same interview when interviewer asked Hazar Imam, I quote," Do you feel you have made any mistakes?" Hazar Imam replied," Yes of course I have."
Dear kmaherali do you believe ALLAH makes mistakes? We say in tasbie
SUBHAN ALLAH. Let me quote an event.On Imamat Day, July 11, 2014, I was present in JK for majlis. A person came on podium and prayed for Hazar Imam.He said," YA ALLAH GRANT GOOD HEALTH AND LONG LIFE TO OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM SO THAT HE SHOULD GUIDE US FOR MANY MANY MORE YEARS-----------"Look at the wordings, YA ALLAH----
Any comment by any one!!
With your reference to Sunday Times interview of HAZAR IMAM on
Dec12, 1965, where He replied to a question about IMAMAT saying He is the bearer of NOOR. Now with due respect, in the same interview when interviewer asked Hazar Imam, I quote," Do you feel you have made any mistakes?" Hazar Imam replied," Yes of course I have."
Dear kmaherali do you believe ALLAH makes mistakes? We say in tasbie
SUBHAN ALLAH. Let me quote an event.On Imamat Day, July 11, 2014, I was present in JK for majlis. A person came on podium and prayed for Hazar Imam.He said," YA ALLAH GRANT GOOD HEALTH AND LONG LIFE TO OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM SO THAT HE SHOULD GUIDE US FOR MANY MANY MORE YEARS-----------"Look at the wordings, YA ALLAH----
Any comment by any one!!
-
ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
Dear Mazhar
The Tasbihs are recited after Du'a and after salwaat recited in the Du'a.
So going into the Tasbihs, it is already known that:
a) Allah bestows His blessings upon the souls of Muhammad and the Imams
b) Allah grants us His blessings THROUGH the souls of Muhammad and the Imams
So whatever we ask in Tasbihs is being sought from Allah, through the Imams. The Imam of the Time, due to the highest rank of his pure soul before Allah, is always receiving from Allah all the blessings at the highest possible degree. The Imam then has the agency to transmit the blessings of Allah to us - indeed, all blessings of Allah reach humanity through the Imam who is the highest intercessor. The Qur'an in 9:103 says the blessings of Muhammad bring peace or tranquility to the believers. When we seek Imam's help, we seek his blessings.
Also, think about the translation of the Tasbihs. Everything we seek from the Imam follows from his spiritual functions. The Imam can remove our difficulties - either physically or spiritually through inspiring our souls. If Satan can whisper in human souls, then so can the Imam of the Age. The Qur'an says the Prophet is closer to the believers than their own souls, so why cannot the Imam communicate to our souls?
The Qur'an says Muhammad's hand over the believer's hands is really God's Hand and it also says that all bounties are in the Hand of God. So why should we not seek God's bounties from the Imam in tasbih?
The Qur'an says that God appointed Imams to establish prayer, give zakat, guide people, and do good deeds - thus we ask Mawla to keep us regular in ibadat, good deeds, and dasond.
I hope this explanation suffices.
KMaherali - this may be an exoteric answer but this is what Mazhar is seeking.
The Tasbihs are recited after Du'a and after salwaat recited in the Du'a.
So going into the Tasbihs, it is already known that:
a) Allah bestows His blessings upon the souls of Muhammad and the Imams
b) Allah grants us His blessings THROUGH the souls of Muhammad and the Imams
So whatever we ask in Tasbihs is being sought from Allah, through the Imams. The Imam of the Time, due to the highest rank of his pure soul before Allah, is always receiving from Allah all the blessings at the highest possible degree. The Imam then has the agency to transmit the blessings of Allah to us - indeed, all blessings of Allah reach humanity through the Imam who is the highest intercessor. The Qur'an in 9:103 says the blessings of Muhammad bring peace or tranquility to the believers. When we seek Imam's help, we seek his blessings.
Also, think about the translation of the Tasbihs. Everything we seek from the Imam follows from his spiritual functions. The Imam can remove our difficulties - either physically or spiritually through inspiring our souls. If Satan can whisper in human souls, then so can the Imam of the Age. The Qur'an says the Prophet is closer to the believers than their own souls, so why cannot the Imam communicate to our souls?
The Qur'an says Muhammad's hand over the believer's hands is really God's Hand and it also says that all bounties are in the Hand of God. So why should we not seek God's bounties from the Imam in tasbih?
The Qur'an says that God appointed Imams to establish prayer, give zakat, guide people, and do good deeds - thus we ask Mawla to keep us regular in ibadat, good deeds, and dasond.
I hope this explanation suffices.
KMaherali - this may be an exoteric answer but this is what Mazhar is seeking.
One is free to believe but need to quote passage number if he believes that Quran says that.Ismailignosis wrote
. The Qur'an says the Prophet is closer to the believers than their own souls,
Please quote Quran Aya reference
The Qur'an says Muhammad's hand over the believer's hands is really God's Hand
Please quote Quran Aya reference
-
ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
According to the Qur’an itself, the Prophet of Islam is not only the revealer of the Qur’an but also its expounder (16:44, 5:15; 5:19; 16:44; 16:64; 14:4). Revealing the Qur’an actually comprises just a portion of Muhammad’s mission on earth which also includes teaching, purification, and guidance (62:2, 3:164, 2:151).
In his lifetime, the Qur’an was only an oral recitation and not a physical scripture. Muhammad was commanded to only convey this qur’an to the people in stages (17:106) and not all at once in the form of a fixed text. All religious and spiritual guidance was given by Muhammad on God’s behalf: “He who obeys the Prophet obeys God” (4:80); “The Prophet has more authority over the believers than their own souls (33:6).” The Qur’an was truly a guidance, light and mercy to the people but only through the teaching and exposition of Muhammad.
Read the detailed article at http://ismailignosis.com/2014/01/13/the ... -muhammad/
One of the most important functions of Prophet Muhammad is that of an intercessor. An intercessor is a person or entity who mediates between God and human beings. The Qur’an commands Muslims to seek such a means of approach (wasilah) to God (5:35). In this role of intercessor, the Prophet receives the bay‘ah of the believers on behalf of God: “He who gives their bay‘ah to you, verily he has given it to God Himself” (48:10). When the believers seek the forgiveness of God, they are by in the Qur’an to come before Muhammad to seek forgiveness and Muhammad must pray to God on their behalf for them to be forgiven (4:64). When the believers seek to atone for their wrongful actions, the Prophet Muhammad is told to “take alms from their wealth so that you may purify and sanctify them” (9:103). Indeed, the prayers and blessings of Muhammad are a source of tranquility (sakan) for those be prays over (9:103). These duties of accepting repentance, purifying believers, and taking their offerings are duties that Muhammad performs in person, but the Qur’an affirms that it is actually God who has performed them (9:104).
The Qur’an, when read very closely, describes the Prophet Muhammad with a number of names and titles that are drawn from or identical to the Names and Attributes of God Himself. The mercy and kindness shown by Muhammad to the believers is said to be the Mercy of God Himself (3:159). Just as God forgives the sins of the believers, Muhammad too is commanded to forgive them (3:159, 5:13, 7:199). While God is the Light of the Heavens and the Earth (24:36), Muhammad is a light-giving lamp (33:47) and the Light sent down to make things clear to the believers (5:15). God is the Guardian of the believers along with Muhammad. The Prophet of Islam is described as merciful (rahim) and kind (ra’uf) just as God Himself is described as such (9:128). The All-Merciful (al-Rahman) is God while the Mercy (rahmah) to all the worlds is Muhammad. The very physical presence of Muhammad in the world is what wards of God’s punishment from the people (8:33). God guides whom He wills (2:272) while Muhammad, through God’s spirit (ruh) and light (nur) guides people to the Straight Path (42:52). God is the Purifier of human souls and Muhammad is the one who purifies the believers (9:103). God is the most great (al-‘azim) and Muhammad’s character is great (‘azim).
In the centuries after the death of Muhammad, Muslims of all schools expanded and interpreted these ideas. Muslims of esoteric traditions such as Shi‘ism and Sufism also believe that God first created the pre-eternal Light of Muhammad (nur Muhammadi) in the spiritual world before the creation of the physical world and the historical Muhammad.
Finally, just focusing on a handful of the above spiritual functions of Muḥammad shows the need for a spiritual heir and successor to the Prophet. If Muḥammad was responsible for guiding the Believers on behalf of God, praying for the Believer’s forgiveness (4:64), taking offerings from them to purify them (9:102-104) on God’s behalf, sending blessings upon them for their tranquility (9:103), judging between them (4:65), and accepting their obedience on behalf of God – all during his own lifetime, does this not necessitate the presence of someone who continues to perform these spiritual functions for the Believers in every age and time after the departure of the Prophet? If the answer is negative, then doesn’t this contradict the very justice of God? Why would God bless the people of one particular time and age with a person who performs all of the above functions and then deprive the countless number of human beings who live after him of the same blessing? The only logical conclusion is that a person like the Prophet Muḥammad must always be present in the world to continue his spiritual and religious mission. The status of Muḥammad as the Seal of the Prophets only signifies the conclusion of scriptural revelation and legislative prophecy. But Divine inspiration (ta’yīd) and spiritual guardianship (walāyah) must always continue – otherwise, humanity would be wholly deprived of Divine guidance. Thus, the successor of Muḥammad with respect to divine inspiration (ta’yīd) and the functions of walāyah – the person who continues to guide the Believers on God’s behalf, to pray for their forgiveness, to accept their offerings and purify them on God’s behalf, to send blessings upon them, to judge between them, and accept their obedience on behalf of God – is the hereditary Imām from the progeny or Ahl al-Bayt of Muḥammad.
Read the full article at http://ismailignosis.com/2014/01/13/the ... -muhammad/
The Status of the Prophet Muḥammad in the Qur’ān:
The Prophet Muḥammad is inspired by the Holy Spirit (42:52, 26:192-194)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the mercy (raḥmah) to the worlds (21:107)
The Prophet Muḥammad is merciful (raḥīm) to the Believers (9:128)
The Prophet Muḥammad is kind (ra’ūf) the Believers (9:128)
The Prophet Muḥammad is an honourable Messenger (rasūl karīm) (69:40; 81:19-21)
The Prophet Muḥammad is light (nūr) from God (5:15) and a radiant lamp (sirāj munīr) (33:46)
The Prophet Muḥammad (like Prophet Abraham) is gentle (ḥalīm) to the Believers (11:75)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the possessor of power (dhū al-quwwah) (81:20-21)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the teacher (mu‘allim) of the Book and Wisdom and new knowledge (62:2; 3:164; 2:151)
The Prophet Muḥammad, like his predecessors, is patient (ṣabūr) (38:16, 46:34)
The Prophet is the witness (shahīd) of humankind on the Day of Judgment (2:143, 33:46; 4:41)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the guardian (walī) of the Believers (5:55)
The Prophet Muḥammad prays to God for the Believer’s forgiveness (4:64, 63:5, 3:159, 60:12, 24:62)
The Prophet Muḥammad forgives the Believers (5:13; 3:159; 7:199)
The Prophet Muḥammad guides the Believers to the Straight Path (45:25)
The Prophet Muḥammad’s nature or character is sublime (‘aẓīm) (68:4)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the judge of the believers (4:65; 4:105; 24:51; 33:36)
The Prophet Muḥammad makes things clear to the Believers (5:15; 5:19; 16:44; 16:64; 14:4)
The Prophet Muḥammad purifies and sanctifies the believers (9:103)
The Prophet Muḥammad holds authority (awlā) over the Believers (33:6)
The Prophet Muḥammad summons the Believers to that which gives them life (8:24).
The Prophet Muḥammad recites the Signs of God (2:151).
The Prophet Muḥammad sends ṣalawāt (blessings, prayers) upon the Believers (9:103)
The Prophet Muḥammad receives offerings (ṣadaqa) from the Believers (9:103; 58:12)
The Prophet Muḥammad brings the people from darkness to Light (14:1; 14:5 65:11)
The Prophet Muḥammad is a beautiful pattern for the Believers (33:21)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the object of great respect and veneration (48:9, 49:1-3)
The Prophet Muḥammad commands the lawful and forbids the wrong (7:157)
He who gives their allegiance (bay‘ah) to the Prophet Muḥammad has given it to God (48:10)
He who obeys the Prophet Muḥammad, obeys God (4:80; 4:64)
In his lifetime, the Qur’an was only an oral recitation and not a physical scripture. Muhammad was commanded to only convey this qur’an to the people in stages (17:106) and not all at once in the form of a fixed text. All religious and spiritual guidance was given by Muhammad on God’s behalf: “He who obeys the Prophet obeys God” (4:80); “The Prophet has more authority over the believers than their own souls (33:6).” The Qur’an was truly a guidance, light and mercy to the people but only through the teaching and exposition of Muhammad.
Read the detailed article at http://ismailignosis.com/2014/01/13/the ... -muhammad/
One of the most important functions of Prophet Muhammad is that of an intercessor. An intercessor is a person or entity who mediates between God and human beings. The Qur’an commands Muslims to seek such a means of approach (wasilah) to God (5:35). In this role of intercessor, the Prophet receives the bay‘ah of the believers on behalf of God: “He who gives their bay‘ah to you, verily he has given it to God Himself” (48:10). When the believers seek the forgiveness of God, they are by in the Qur’an to come before Muhammad to seek forgiveness and Muhammad must pray to God on their behalf for them to be forgiven (4:64). When the believers seek to atone for their wrongful actions, the Prophet Muhammad is told to “take alms from their wealth so that you may purify and sanctify them” (9:103). Indeed, the prayers and blessings of Muhammad are a source of tranquility (sakan) for those be prays over (9:103). These duties of accepting repentance, purifying believers, and taking their offerings are duties that Muhammad performs in person, but the Qur’an affirms that it is actually God who has performed them (9:104).
The Qur’an, when read very closely, describes the Prophet Muhammad with a number of names and titles that are drawn from or identical to the Names and Attributes of God Himself. The mercy and kindness shown by Muhammad to the believers is said to be the Mercy of God Himself (3:159). Just as God forgives the sins of the believers, Muhammad too is commanded to forgive them (3:159, 5:13, 7:199). While God is the Light of the Heavens and the Earth (24:36), Muhammad is a light-giving lamp (33:47) and the Light sent down to make things clear to the believers (5:15). God is the Guardian of the believers along with Muhammad. The Prophet of Islam is described as merciful (rahim) and kind (ra’uf) just as God Himself is described as such (9:128). The All-Merciful (al-Rahman) is God while the Mercy (rahmah) to all the worlds is Muhammad. The very physical presence of Muhammad in the world is what wards of God’s punishment from the people (8:33). God guides whom He wills (2:272) while Muhammad, through God’s spirit (ruh) and light (nur) guides people to the Straight Path (42:52). God is the Purifier of human souls and Muhammad is the one who purifies the believers (9:103). God is the most great (al-‘azim) and Muhammad’s character is great (‘azim).
In the centuries after the death of Muhammad, Muslims of all schools expanded and interpreted these ideas. Muslims of esoteric traditions such as Shi‘ism and Sufism also believe that God first created the pre-eternal Light of Muhammad (nur Muhammadi) in the spiritual world before the creation of the physical world and the historical Muhammad.
Finally, just focusing on a handful of the above spiritual functions of Muḥammad shows the need for a spiritual heir and successor to the Prophet. If Muḥammad was responsible for guiding the Believers on behalf of God, praying for the Believer’s forgiveness (4:64), taking offerings from them to purify them (9:102-104) on God’s behalf, sending blessings upon them for their tranquility (9:103), judging between them (4:65), and accepting their obedience on behalf of God – all during his own lifetime, does this not necessitate the presence of someone who continues to perform these spiritual functions for the Believers in every age and time after the departure of the Prophet? If the answer is negative, then doesn’t this contradict the very justice of God? Why would God bless the people of one particular time and age with a person who performs all of the above functions and then deprive the countless number of human beings who live after him of the same blessing? The only logical conclusion is that a person like the Prophet Muḥammad must always be present in the world to continue his spiritual and religious mission. The status of Muḥammad as the Seal of the Prophets only signifies the conclusion of scriptural revelation and legislative prophecy. But Divine inspiration (ta’yīd) and spiritual guardianship (walāyah) must always continue – otherwise, humanity would be wholly deprived of Divine guidance. Thus, the successor of Muḥammad with respect to divine inspiration (ta’yīd) and the functions of walāyah – the person who continues to guide the Believers on God’s behalf, to pray for their forgiveness, to accept their offerings and purify them on God’s behalf, to send blessings upon them, to judge between them, and accept their obedience on behalf of God – is the hereditary Imām from the progeny or Ahl al-Bayt of Muḥammad.
Read the full article at http://ismailignosis.com/2014/01/13/the ... -muhammad/
The Status of the Prophet Muḥammad in the Qur’ān:
The Prophet Muḥammad is inspired by the Holy Spirit (42:52, 26:192-194)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the mercy (raḥmah) to the worlds (21:107)
The Prophet Muḥammad is merciful (raḥīm) to the Believers (9:128)
The Prophet Muḥammad is kind (ra’ūf) the Believers (9:128)
The Prophet Muḥammad is an honourable Messenger (rasūl karīm) (69:40; 81:19-21)
The Prophet Muḥammad is light (nūr) from God (5:15) and a radiant lamp (sirāj munīr) (33:46)
The Prophet Muḥammad (like Prophet Abraham) is gentle (ḥalīm) to the Believers (11:75)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the possessor of power (dhū al-quwwah) (81:20-21)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the teacher (mu‘allim) of the Book and Wisdom and new knowledge (62:2; 3:164; 2:151)
The Prophet Muḥammad, like his predecessors, is patient (ṣabūr) (38:16, 46:34)
The Prophet is the witness (shahīd) of humankind on the Day of Judgment (2:143, 33:46; 4:41)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the guardian (walī) of the Believers (5:55)
The Prophet Muḥammad prays to God for the Believer’s forgiveness (4:64, 63:5, 3:159, 60:12, 24:62)
The Prophet Muḥammad forgives the Believers (5:13; 3:159; 7:199)
The Prophet Muḥammad guides the Believers to the Straight Path (45:25)
The Prophet Muḥammad’s nature or character is sublime (‘aẓīm) (68:4)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the judge of the believers (4:65; 4:105; 24:51; 33:36)
The Prophet Muḥammad makes things clear to the Believers (5:15; 5:19; 16:44; 16:64; 14:4)
The Prophet Muḥammad purifies and sanctifies the believers (9:103)
The Prophet Muḥammad holds authority (awlā) over the Believers (33:6)
The Prophet Muḥammad summons the Believers to that which gives them life (8:24).
The Prophet Muḥammad recites the Signs of God (2:151).
The Prophet Muḥammad sends ṣalawāt (blessings, prayers) upon the Believers (9:103)
The Prophet Muḥammad receives offerings (ṣadaqa) from the Believers (9:103; 58:12)
The Prophet Muḥammad brings the people from darkness to Light (14:1; 14:5 65:11)
The Prophet Muḥammad is a beautiful pattern for the Believers (33:21)
The Prophet Muḥammad is the object of great respect and veneration (48:9, 49:1-3)
The Prophet Muḥammad commands the lawful and forbids the wrong (7:157)
He who gives their allegiance (bay‘ah) to the Prophet Muḥammad has given it to God (48:10)
He who obeys the Prophet Muḥammad, obeys God (4:80; 4:64)
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ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
"Could you then please explain the esoteric meaning of it?"
- That relates back to how prayer works metaphysically and the fact that the supplications of creatures cannot and do not affect or change God's Will or His acts. God's act of giving existence and bounties to His creatures is a constant and eternal process as MSMS says in His Memoirs.
- God bestows universal mercy to all His creatures - that is the mercy indicated by the Divine Name al-Rahman. Then He also bestows specific mercy to the believers only - through His Prophets and Imams. The special mercy is indicated by the Divine Name al-Rahim. The functions of the Prophet Muhammad listed above continue in the Imams and they are forms of God's special mercy. This is one reason why the Prophet (and by extension the Imam) shares certain Divine Names with God - like al-Rahim, Al-Nur, al-Hadi, al-Azim, al-Ra'uf, etc.
- Now metaphysically speaking, God's universal mercy comes down unceasingly. It is not cut off from anyone and it is not restricted. However, the souls of the creatures are at different levels of receptivity - they cannot receive or capture God's universal mercy to the same degree. Certain creatures receive more mercy than others. In that sense, the souls of Prophets and Imams are the purest souls and the most receptive to God's universal mercy. As such, they are the intermediaries and vehicles by which God's general mercy reaches the rest of the creatures.
- To actually experience more of God's universal mercy, the creature must increase its own receptivity - as that is the only thing blocking that greater reception. Doing so requires effort and prayer is an act that can help increase the creature's level of receptivity; it does not have any effect on God who is immutable and unchanging and beyond time. So this whole argument of "why don't I just pray to God directly" holds no water in terms of metaphysics.
- The essence of prayer according to the Qur'an is dhikr (remembrance of God) and remembrance, per Imam Ali, is polish for the hearts. Thus, being more conscious and aware of God helps polish the heart so it can receive more of God's mercy. But even in that sense, the general mercy reaches us through the Prophets and Imams. So that is one reason why our prayers, in addition to acknowledging God as the source of all mercy and blessings, must also invoke the Prophets and Imams.
- The special mercy of God also comes to the believers through the Imams today. This is because the Imam is the greatest in receiving the general mercy of God and his soul dispenses that in the form of particular blessings like guidance, purification, forgiveness, knowledge, etc. Indeed, the specific mercy that comes from the Imams helps open up and purify our souls so they can receive a greater share of God's general mercy. Unlike God who is beyond time, space, and change and who does not literally hear our prayers in real time (there is no time for Him), the Imam DOES hear our prayers in real time and space; thus, appealing to the Imam is the most efficient and accurate form of supplication (du'a) - since God's blessings - both general and specific - come to humankind and the believers through the Imams.
- That relates back to how prayer works metaphysically and the fact that the supplications of creatures cannot and do not affect or change God's Will or His acts. God's act of giving existence and bounties to His creatures is a constant and eternal process as MSMS says in His Memoirs.
- God bestows universal mercy to all His creatures - that is the mercy indicated by the Divine Name al-Rahman. Then He also bestows specific mercy to the believers only - through His Prophets and Imams. The special mercy is indicated by the Divine Name al-Rahim. The functions of the Prophet Muhammad listed above continue in the Imams and they are forms of God's special mercy. This is one reason why the Prophet (and by extension the Imam) shares certain Divine Names with God - like al-Rahim, Al-Nur, al-Hadi, al-Azim, al-Ra'uf, etc.
- Now metaphysically speaking, God's universal mercy comes down unceasingly. It is not cut off from anyone and it is not restricted. However, the souls of the creatures are at different levels of receptivity - they cannot receive or capture God's universal mercy to the same degree. Certain creatures receive more mercy than others. In that sense, the souls of Prophets and Imams are the purest souls and the most receptive to God's universal mercy. As such, they are the intermediaries and vehicles by which God's general mercy reaches the rest of the creatures.
- To actually experience more of God's universal mercy, the creature must increase its own receptivity - as that is the only thing blocking that greater reception. Doing so requires effort and prayer is an act that can help increase the creature's level of receptivity; it does not have any effect on God who is immutable and unchanging and beyond time. So this whole argument of "why don't I just pray to God directly" holds no water in terms of metaphysics.
- The essence of prayer according to the Qur'an is dhikr (remembrance of God) and remembrance, per Imam Ali, is polish for the hearts. Thus, being more conscious and aware of God helps polish the heart so it can receive more of God's mercy. But even in that sense, the general mercy reaches us through the Prophets and Imams. So that is one reason why our prayers, in addition to acknowledging God as the source of all mercy and blessings, must also invoke the Prophets and Imams.
- The special mercy of God also comes to the believers through the Imams today. This is because the Imam is the greatest in receiving the general mercy of God and his soul dispenses that in the form of particular blessings like guidance, purification, forgiveness, knowledge, etc. Indeed, the specific mercy that comes from the Imams helps open up and purify our souls so they can receive a greater share of God's general mercy. Unlike God who is beyond time, space, and change and who does not literally hear our prayers in real time (there is no time for Him), the Imam DOES hear our prayers in real time and space; thus, appealing to the Imam is the most efficient and accurate form of supplication (du'a) - since God's blessings - both general and specific - come to humankind and the believers through the Imams.
Dear Nuseri,
Regarding word TAWHEED I have used ee instead of i, and it does not affect the meaning. There are more than 1.5 billion people who say CHRIST is God, it is their belief. There are about one billion people who say RAMA, KRISHAN, SHEVA are their God, fine with them. There are about one million people of a community say their leader is prophet. There are about one percent among Shias population who believe MOULA ALI as Allah that is their faith, I do not poke my nose into their belief. My question was about preamble related to dua wordings and dua guzari or dua karawi.
I am staunch follower of Hazar Imam. Obey what Imam of the time says, and He never claimed to be God.
Regarding word TAWHEED I have used ee instead of i, and it does not affect the meaning. There are more than 1.5 billion people who say CHRIST is God, it is their belief. There are about one billion people who say RAMA, KRISHAN, SHEVA are their God, fine with them. There are about one million people of a community say their leader is prophet. There are about one percent among Shias population who believe MOULA ALI as Allah that is their faith, I do not poke my nose into their belief. My question was about preamble related to dua wordings and dua guzari or dua karawi.
I am staunch follower of Hazar Imam. Obey what Imam of the time says, and He never claimed to be God.
In his ITV interview MHI was asked:mazhar wrote:Dearkmaherali,
With your reference to Sunday Times interview of HAZAR IMAM on
Dec12, 1965, where He replied to a question about IMAMAT saying He is the bearer of NOOR. Now with due respect, in the same interview when interviewer asked Hazar Imam, I quote," Do you feel you have made any mistakes?" Hazar Imam replied," Yes of course I have."
Dear kmaherali do you believe ALLAH makes mistakes? We say in tasbie
SUBHAN ALLAH. Let me quote an event.On Imamat Day, July 11, 2014, I was present in JK for majlis. A person came on podium and prayed for Hazar Imam.He said," YA ALLAH GRANT GOOD HEALTH AND LONG LIFE TO OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM SO THAT HE SHOULD GUIDE US FOR MANY MANY MORE YEARS-----------"Look at the wordings, YA ALLAH----
Any comment by any one!!
ITV: One of the myths surrounding you is that some people in the West think of you as a living God. Not only is that not true, it is also blasphemous.
To which MHI replied:
AK: Absolutely. I mean as you know the faith of Islam was revealed at a time when the Arabian continent was idolatrous and idolatry, all forms of idolatry, are totally prohibited by Islam. It is certainly true to say that the Western world doesn’t necessarily understand the theology of Shi’ism nor indeed the theology of many mystical sects whether they are Shia or Sunni or Christian. Mysticism, in its, in its essence is difficult.
http://www.nanowisdoms.org/nwblog/3134/
From the above statement of the Imam we can see that mysticism or Sufism is diificult and therefore not many people will have the capacity to understand mysticism. It is only through the understanding of mysticism or Sufism that one can derive the knowledge of MHI as the mazhar of the Noor (God).
If we consider the Qur'an which I hope you accept as the word of Allah, it is addressed to the whole of mankind which would include people of all faiths and all interpretations. There the Qur'an caters for the need of people with different theological and denominational backgrounds. Hence we find paradoxes in the Qur'an. On the one hand Allah tells us that the Prophet ia only an ordinary man:
41: 6: Say (unto thee O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you.
6:50: Say (O Muhammad to the disbelievers): I say not unto you (that) I posses the treasures of Allah, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen and I say not unto you: lo! I am an angel.
The above verses are meant of those who do not have the capacity or background to know the Prophet as the Mazhar of the Noor.
On the other hand we have verses which point to the Divine nature of the Prophet:
33:46 calls the Prophet Sirajun Munir the Shining Lamp.
4:174:"O ye people, verily Proof has come to you from your Lord and we have sent you manifest Light."
The above verses allude to the Divine nature of the Prophet and they cater for the need of those who have the capacity and background to understand Sufism or mysticism.
Similarly in the Sunday Times interview, the audience is of different backgrounds. It would include the murids of the Imam and those with mystical inclinations on the one hand, and the non-murids and those without the mystical background.
For his murids and those inclined towards mysticism, he made a statement that he was the Bearer of the Noor.
For the non-murids and those who do not have the capacity or the background (which would be the majority), he stated that he is an ordinary humanbeing who makes mistakes. This is only a veil.
If he were to say that he did not make mistakes, the majority without proper background would get bewildered!!
But in reality the Imamas and Prophet's are infallible. Else why would Allah command us to obey them as per: "Obey Allah, Obey the apostle and those who are in authority (the Imams).?
Sorry there are typos and I cannot edit my post! The sentences above should read:kmaherali wrote: There the Qur'an caters for the need of people
41: 6: Say (unto thee O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you.
But in reality the Imamas and Prophet's are infallible. Else why would Allah command us to obey them as per: "Obey Allah, Obey the apostle and those who are in authority (the Imams).?
Therefore the Qur'an caters for the need of people
41: 6: Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you.
But in reality the Imams and Prophet are infallible. Else why would Allah command us to obey them as per: "Obey Allah, Obey the apostle and those who are in authority (the Imams).?
MHI is the Musheed Kamil - Perfect Teacher. A perfect teacher would speak to his pupils according to their capacity. He would obviously not claim directly that he is God to the public at large because the majority do not have the background to understand him as such. Before a teacher can talk about calculus he must first make sure that the pupils know the basic arithmetic.mazhar wrote:I am staunch follower of Hazar Imam. Obey what Imam of the time says, and He never claimed to be God.
However to his murids who have the capacity to know him as God, he has said things like: "His Noor has indicated to you.." in his Farmans. And MSMS in his Farmans has indicated that the Imams are the Ocean to which the murids return. Just as in the Qur'an it is said that we return to God.
Ya Ali Madad.
I wish to know from who know the perfect word n pronunciation of the word tawhid.
i wish from certified from original word of the constitution.
as the word mentioned.what is the meaning of that word
I know that the word pronounced as 'tauhid' which could be written as
tawhid or towhid also have meaning to unity with GOD.( i may be incorrect)
If there dual meaning is there to one word then exact meaning is important for all us.
I NEED FIRM INFO ON THIS.
To mazhar;
you have manipulated the spelling of the word.
secondly you have fabricated of some coming to mike praying to allah brand name) for MhI health,this it totally totally made up by you.
any tasbish by anyone, need to cleared to tariqa board be it alwez or
tom dick n harry.
our Tasbih is only n only addresed to Ya Ali/ya hazar Imam.( the word ALI
in fact whole word is praying to him in different names.
have got any image of MHI BOW DOWN TO so called allah/himself.
He authoritatively give blessing to us n also those who seek from Him.
his own blessing and not by saying I will pray to xyz for your xxx askings.
Our Ismaili faith starts with obligation of body(prayer murmuring),onward to inspiration of mind( farmans as Imam, ginan qasidas)no interview or speech as agakhan.progress of soul( ibaadat,khdmat,aasique).
leadind to "Tauhid" as me waasal.
I really appreciate the postings of ismailignosis on ayats relating to prophet (a human)
and Kmaherali for great search on interview n relating Ayat on ALI being bearer of NOOR.
I feel our kalima like in past n inshallah in future may reflect as
Aliallah n may be not' Ali is from allah' but the truth the name/word
Allah is from ALI, as per farman of Imam Aga Ali datar.
I wish to know from who know the perfect word n pronunciation of the word tawhid.
i wish from certified from original word of the constitution.
as the word mentioned.what is the meaning of that word
I know that the word pronounced as 'tauhid' which could be written as
tawhid or towhid also have meaning to unity with GOD.( i may be incorrect)
If there dual meaning is there to one word then exact meaning is important for all us.
I NEED FIRM INFO ON THIS.
To mazhar;
you have manipulated the spelling of the word.
secondly you have fabricated of some coming to mike praying to allah brand name) for MhI health,this it totally totally made up by you.
any tasbish by anyone, need to cleared to tariqa board be it alwez or
tom dick n harry.
our Tasbih is only n only addresed to Ya Ali/ya hazar Imam.( the word ALI
in fact whole word is praying to him in different names.
have got any image of MHI BOW DOWN TO so called allah/himself.
He authoritatively give blessing to us n also those who seek from Him.
his own blessing and not by saying I will pray to xyz for your xxx askings.
Our Ismaili faith starts with obligation of body(prayer murmuring),onward to inspiration of mind( farmans as Imam, ginan qasidas)no interview or speech as agakhan.progress of soul( ibaadat,khdmat,aasique).
leadind to "Tauhid" as me waasal.
I really appreciate the postings of ismailignosis on ayats relating to prophet (a human)
and Kmaherali for great search on interview n relating Ayat on ALI being bearer of NOOR.
I feel our kalima like in past n inshallah in future may reflect as
Aliallah n may be not' Ali is from allah' but the truth the name/word
Allah is from ALI, as per farman of Imam Aga Ali datar.
Thank you ismailignosis for this comprehensive response. It's certainly appreciated, a good reply!
A few observations:
you said:
I am sure, you may intend to say, God's mercy isn't affected, by alluding to God's Will or act. Because, depending one how one acts [Good or wicked], his destiny could be impacted. In other words, one plays [well to a certain degree] on how s/he shapes his/her destiny, where good deeds brings about fortune, and wicked deeds brings about bad fortune. So, based on how one acts, God's Will or Act can vary. there's a good Persian poem which I recall, and it's pertinent to this subject and I think it's worth it to mention, which goes like this:
نقش معکوس نگین از سجده میگردد درست
سرنوشت واژگون را راست میسازد نماز
the translation goes like this:
the poet allegories the seal of a ring, where it's marked on the ring wrong sided, and it only printed/marked right, when it's put down on paper [up-side down] which is like prostration position. So, he means that by prayer [or in this verse, it's more than prayer, i.e. good deeds] can change [in a good way] one's destiny, the same way as the make of the seal on the rings becomes clear and readable when maقked on paper.
However, I do grant you that God's mercy shines upon everyone equally, and based on how receptive our [individual] souls are, can apprehends proportionally. This level of receptivity, directly depends on one's [individual soul's] proximity to the Divine. The closer, the more receptive. To increase this receptivity, prayer is definitely part of things one can do, however, more so, is by cleansing one's soul from wicked deeds or even thoughts, by controlling one's instincts. This is the essence of Jihad, which means struggle against one's soul. As Att'ar explains the seven valley of "Love", that one has to traverse to reach the final stage of sufism [Fana'].
A few observations:
you said:
ismailignosis wrote: That relates back to how prayer works metaphysically and the fact that the supplications of creatures cannot and do not affect or change God's Will or His acts. God's act of giving existence and bounties to His creatures is a constant and eternal process as MSMS says in His Memoirs.
I am sure, you may intend to say, God's mercy isn't affected, by alluding to God's Will or act. Because, depending one how one acts [Good or wicked], his destiny could be impacted. In other words, one plays [well to a certain degree] on how s/he shapes his/her destiny, where good deeds brings about fortune, and wicked deeds brings about bad fortune. So, based on how one acts, God's Will or Act can vary. there's a good Persian poem which I recall, and it's pertinent to this subject and I think it's worth it to mention, which goes like this:
نقش معکوس نگین از سجده میگردد درست
سرنوشت واژگون را راست میسازد نماز
the translation goes like this:
the poet allegories the seal of a ring, where it's marked on the ring wrong sided, and it only printed/marked right, when it's put down on paper [up-side down] which is like prostration position. So, he means that by prayer [or in this verse, it's more than prayer, i.e. good deeds] can change [in a good way] one's destiny, the same way as the make of the seal on the rings becomes clear and readable when maقked on paper.
However, I do grant you that God's mercy shines upon everyone equally, and based on how receptive our [individual] souls are, can apprehends proportionally. This level of receptivity, directly depends on one's [individual soul's] proximity to the Divine. The closer, the more receptive. To increase this receptivity, prayer is definitely part of things one can do, however, more so, is by cleansing one's soul from wicked deeds or even thoughts, by controlling one's instincts. This is the essence of Jihad, which means struggle against one's soul. As Att'ar explains the seven valley of "Love", that one has to traverse to reach the final stage of sufism [Fana'].
I have not fabricated any thing, that special prayer or du'a guzari was done infront of 1000+ jamaities.
You have written, I quote,"When the word or name Ali is there, THERE IS NO NO NO NEED OF WORD ALLAH" Do you have courage to change or replace word ALLAH with ALI in Quran Majeed.. When you say your Du'a/Namaaz, you start with Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim and NOT with Bismi Ali-------------
Historically can you tell me in which century the kalma pak's last portion was added i.e Amirul mu'mineen Aliyun Wali Allah by Shias.A century ago how Ismaili Khojas
recited kalma pak and what were the wordings and to day the last portion was changed by which Imam. Now the last portion we recite in JK is Wa ash hadu anna Aliyan
Amirul mu'minina ALIYULA. That change was made by Hazar Imam whom you call God. No more sahee Allah, and ALIYULA WE RECITE IN 2ND PART OF DU'A.
You have written, I quote,"When the word or name Ali is there, THERE IS NO NO NO NEED OF WORD ALLAH" Do you have courage to change or replace word ALLAH with ALI in Quran Majeed.. When you say your Du'a/Namaaz, you start with Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim and NOT with Bismi Ali-------------
Historically can you tell me in which century the kalma pak's last portion was added i.e Amirul mu'mineen Aliyun Wali Allah by Shias.A century ago how Ismaili Khojas
recited kalma pak and what were the wordings and to day the last portion was changed by which Imam. Now the last portion we recite in JK is Wa ash hadu anna Aliyan
Amirul mu'minina ALIYULA. That change was made by Hazar Imam whom you call God. No more sahee Allah, and ALIYULA WE RECITE IN 2ND PART OF DU'A.
Understanding the zahir of the faith is as important as the batin of it. without understanding the zahir, it won't be practical to try and understand the batin. Even batin has a batini meaning [batni-batin بطن باطن]. So, first we must realize and understand the zahiri of our tariqa, then try and contemplate to get to the batini-batin of it. We can't discard zahir, and go after batin. The Constitution, Du'a must be understood first. Even after realizing the batini concept of the tariqa, it's not fair to leave the zahir. Because, zahir is like cloth. To discard zahir, is like to be without cloth. So, discarding either zahir or batin, would be to fall of the siratul-mustaqim to the right or left. Same is true by over-exageration of the Imam's status [such as equating the Imam to God] or under-estimating the status of the Imam as ordinary human beings. Again, one would fall to the left or right, from the siratul-mustaqim. One must continue free inquiry and soul searching journey to know himself, as it is this light of intellect that distinguish between a complete human being and an human animal.
Even once one apprehends the secrets of God's treasure, one must not reveal it. That's the reason why God speaks in parables and even the people of truth and sages speak in parable, symbolism and allegorical. Even when Halaj declared In-al Haq, that had a purpose at that era. I am sure there were many other great sages who reached the same status as Halaj, but have always kept the secret of God's treasure. That's man's purpose to find the treasure by personal soul searching journey.
Taw'id/Tawhid/Tauhid/Tohid they all mean the same. the origin of the word [توحید] is Arabic, which means "Oneness". I am not aware of the same word [in Arabic or Persian] to have different meaning. In English it cab be written differently because of vowels. i.e. one write Mohammad this way or as Muhammad. Or one would write Nur this way or as Noor. But the intend is the same.
Even once one apprehends the secrets of God's treasure, one must not reveal it. That's the reason why God speaks in parables and even the people of truth and sages speak in parable, symbolism and allegorical. Even when Halaj declared In-al Haq, that had a purpose at that era. I am sure there were many other great sages who reached the same status as Halaj, but have always kept the secret of God's treasure. That's man's purpose to find the treasure by personal soul searching journey.
Taw'id/Tawhid/Tauhid/Tohid they all mean the same. the origin of the word [توحید] is Arabic, which means "Oneness". I am not aware of the same word [in Arabic or Persian] to have different meaning. In English it cab be written differently because of vowels. i.e. one write Mohammad this way or as Muhammad. Or one would write Nur this way or as Noor. But the intend is the same.
Can you please specifically say, what is the contradiction?mazhar wrote: Now there is serious contradiction of du'a guzari whicw is done inJK and the wordings of Du'a which is the foundation of our Tariqa
To my dear friends,
The discussion has drifted to some other topics like noor, bearer of noor,quran,kalima, tasbih,zahiri, batini, exoteric, esoteric etc, though these topics are impotant, but my original question is regarding the wordings of first article of preamble and Holy Du'a are not in par with our du'a guzari after tasbihat or d'ua karawi with mukhi/kamdia saheb.
Please understand the meaning of Du'a. In 4rth part, and 6th part the word BI HAQQI is used 5 times which means in name of,on behalf,( in Urdu) sadqe me(n), tufail,zarya se, wasiley se. Now in 6th part after surah Ikhlas we pray ALLAHUMA MUHAMMAD MUSTAFA KE SADQE, ALI MURTAZA KE SADKE, BIBI FATIMA ZAHRA KE SADKE
HAZRAT HASSAN WA IMAM HUSSAIN KE SADQE, then in next paragraph we pray, ALLAHUMA HAMAREY MOULA ALI, HAMAREY MOULA HUSSAIN, then in sequence we recite names of all Imams ke sadqe and in last paragraph, we say hamarey MOULA WA HAMAREY IMAM SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAINI KE SADKE HUM PAR RAHM KAR WA HAMARI MAGFIRAT FARMA. In the last paragraph of 4rth part we say, MUQARAB RASULU(N) KE SADQE WA ( HAMAREY) PAK IMAMU KEY SADQE WA HAMAREY MOULA ,HAMAREY HAAZAR WA MOUJUD IMAM SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAINI KE SADQE HAMARE GUNAH MA'AF FARMA WA RIZQ ATTA FARMA WA HAMAREY PAR RAHM FARMA. Now in du'a guzari after tasbihat WE SAY YA MOULA YA ALI TU(N) ASANJHA GU---------------.These wordings are not in par with our Holy Du'a' which is foudation of our Tariqa. Now with due respect and not offending any body, why not in our du;a guzari after tasbihat, we say ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI AHL BAIT WA A'IMATICAL MUTAHAREEN HAMAREY GUNAH BAKHSH KAR WA HUM PAR RAHM FARMA, AND SO ON---------My other question is according to first article of preamble WE BELIEVE IN PURE TAWHEED, therefore Hazar Imam is not God!!
The discussion has drifted to some other topics like noor, bearer of noor,quran,kalima, tasbih,zahiri, batini, exoteric, esoteric etc, though these topics are impotant, but my original question is regarding the wordings of first article of preamble and Holy Du'a are not in par with our du'a guzari after tasbihat or d'ua karawi with mukhi/kamdia saheb.
Please understand the meaning of Du'a. In 4rth part, and 6th part the word BI HAQQI is used 5 times which means in name of,on behalf,( in Urdu) sadqe me(n), tufail,zarya se, wasiley se. Now in 6th part after surah Ikhlas we pray ALLAHUMA MUHAMMAD MUSTAFA KE SADQE, ALI MURTAZA KE SADKE, BIBI FATIMA ZAHRA KE SADKE
HAZRAT HASSAN WA IMAM HUSSAIN KE SADQE, then in next paragraph we pray, ALLAHUMA HAMAREY MOULA ALI, HAMAREY MOULA HUSSAIN, then in sequence we recite names of all Imams ke sadqe and in last paragraph, we say hamarey MOULA WA HAMAREY IMAM SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAINI KE SADKE HUM PAR RAHM KAR WA HAMARI MAGFIRAT FARMA. In the last paragraph of 4rth part we say, MUQARAB RASULU(N) KE SADQE WA ( HAMAREY) PAK IMAMU KEY SADQE WA HAMAREY MOULA ,HAMAREY HAAZAR WA MOUJUD IMAM SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAINI KE SADQE HAMARE GUNAH MA'AF FARMA WA RIZQ ATTA FARMA WA HAMAREY PAR RAHM FARMA. Now in du'a guzari after tasbihat WE SAY YA MOULA YA ALI TU(N) ASANJHA GU---------------.These wordings are not in par with our Holy Du'a' which is foudation of our Tariqa. Now with due respect and not offending any body, why not in our du;a guzari after tasbihat, we say ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI AHL BAIT WA A'IMATICAL MUTAHAREEN HAMAREY GUNAH BAKHSH KAR WA HUM PAR RAHM FARMA, AND SO ON---------My other question is according to first article of preamble WE BELIEVE IN PURE TAWHEED, therefore Hazar Imam is not God!!
To Mazhar:ya ALI madad.
1. In which JK this tasbih was recited.the place n date.As our religious board should also know what nonsense is taking place within the premises of JK.
in preamble we ONLY AFFIRM THE half baked stuff along with tawhid
that is feeling n experiencing of ONENESS with God (thanks tret. Keep it up with THE new found quality).
we ONLY affirm our faith upto the level of recognizing God and becoming one with him.(asal me wasal.)nothing less.
Get explanation the word' tawhid' in preamble.
only then you post .
Ismailis have farmans ginan n qasidas to to strengthen their faith.
THE WHOLE WORLD is praying to MHI. (even the Shariati)
AS SAID mystic in Sufism is difficult.
simple is ALI IS THE GENERIC name n Allah is popular brand name of that along with few hundred names of GOD/ALI.
1. In which JK this tasbih was recited.the place n date.As our religious board should also know what nonsense is taking place within the premises of JK.
in preamble we ONLY AFFIRM THE half baked stuff along with tawhid
that is feeling n experiencing of ONENESS with God (thanks tret. Keep it up with THE new found quality).
we ONLY affirm our faith upto the level of recognizing God and becoming one with him.(asal me wasal.)nothing less.
Get explanation the word' tawhid' in preamble.
only then you post .
Ismailis have farmans ginan n qasidas to to strengthen their faith.
THE WHOLE WORLD is praying to MHI. (even the Shariati)
AS SAID mystic in Sufism is difficult.
simple is ALI IS THE GENERIC name n Allah is popular brand name of that along with few hundred names of GOD/ALI.
First of all it must be understood that the constitution is a document for the Jamat and also for outsiders. Hence it is a zaheri document. In a zaheri document the Imam cannot state the batini aspects of our faith.mazhar wrote: Now with due respect and not offending any body, why not in our du;a guzari after tasbihat, we say ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI AHL BAIT WA A'IMATICAL MUTAHAREEN HAMAREY GUNAH BAKHSH KAR WA HUM PAR RAHM FARMA, AND SO ON---------My other question is according to first article of preamble WE BELIEVE IN PURE TAWHEED, therefore Hazar Imam is not God!!
As you said that you are a 'staunch follower of Hazar Imam' and therefore follow the Farmans of the Imam. MHI has told us to hold on to our traditions and know the meanings of the Ginans in his Farmans:
"Many times I have recommended to my spiritual children that they should remember the Ginans, that they should understand the meaning of these Ginans and that they should carry these meanings in their hearts. It is most important that my spiritual children from wherever they may come should, through the ages and from generation to generation, hold to this tradition which is so special, so unique and so important to my jamat." Karachi, 16.12.1964
The Ginans are very clear about the status of the Imam:
88) Eji Te satguru sahebjieay sreva kari
Shukrana kidha ati apaar
Ali ne te allah orakhiyo
Te mahain shak na aanio lagaar Cheto.....
88. So Momins, serve the True Guide, the Lord and be very thankful for Ali is Allah and do not ever doubt that.
All our traditions and practices inside JK are predicated upon this fact, and hence all our rituals are interpreted based upon the notion of Ali is Allah. When we enter Jamat Khana we say Haizinda meaning the Noor is everpresent.