Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

[kmaherali]

Yes true, they did perform miracles at some point for some reasons which I am sure I would have understood if I would have reached their level which is very unlikely to happen any time soon

So in principle the miracles can happen although the Imam may choose not to perform publicly at present.

I would encourage you to read The Autobiography of a Yogi which was written some 50 years ago and hence can be considered as relatively recent. You will read about the accounts and justification of all kinds of miracles such bringing the dead to life, materializing a palace from nothing, master appearing in two bodies simultaneously etc. The book can be accessed at:

http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/index.php

[tret]

In the context of our discussion, it certainly does matter! So again have you attained that status?

According to the Farmans of the present Imam a person who has attained the status should not discuss it we anyone. However the Imam can himself allude to the people who have attained that status such as Mansur, Pir Sadardeen , Hafiz, Rumi etc.

Some do exaggeration and say Imam is Allah.?

You said that he is the Sun yet you say that it is an exaggeration to say Imam is Allah.

It is only an exaggeration if we publicly (zahiri context) declare Imam is Allah. However to say Imam is Allah within the Jamat (batini context) would not be an exaggeration. Am I correct in this implication?"

Also when MSMS said in his Memoirs (for the public):
"The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout."

Would you consider that as Eternal Imam or Manifest Imam?

Dear kmaherali - you didn't answer my question. So have you attained the status or not ?

A simple yes or no would do



It's funny you -- on the one hand -- say it's advised not to say it who [attained the status] publicly -- So you pretend to avoid it on public forums, on the other hand you say it's okay to say Ali is Allah In these forums; because we are discussing this between jama'at?

Well my good friend, you should know by now -- and admin can tell you-- nothing you post on the Internet is considered private. And accessible and viewable by all.


I 100% concur with Imams Farmaan, and yet tell you Imam is not Allah.

[Admin]

I also concur 100% with Farmans of the Imam as you do but I believe the opposite of what you do.

If the Noor is not Allah, what is Allah?

And if Allah does not guide you through his Noor (his Farmans) who will guide you, be it in public on the Internet or in private in your meditation?

It is not only on the Internet that there is no privacy, anything said anywhere is known to all immediately so does this mean we have to hide from our children the basic of our faith, of our understanding of Imam as Mazhar of Allah, or even Farmans fearing that if we make them available to our children they may fall into non-Ismaili hands?

What would anyone achieve by knowing the status of the other people on this Forum. Look at the message being posted and comment on it instead of trying to make it a personal matter. May the Light of Ali guide all of us.

I urge you to read Surah Noor and let us come back to the thread.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad:
there is an top industrialist in India,one of the richest.
He has fix set of qualifications.
as a pst of of his routine he speaks to his drivers ,barber,security guard,servants etc.
he also address national n international conferences as key speaker.
Once his barber told him as his three daughters are growing up,he need to increase his income.he industrialist of out of rational sense tols him leave India and work in arab gulf cities where he would 4 times more salary.

In the same same week he is addressing a conference of Opportunities in Inda. With all the intellect,fact and figures he tell the overseas attendees to
'Come to India".
what a contradiction,his qualification has not changed and contradicted
exactly opposite.
I need answer fro from members
1.did he lied to one and truth to others.
2. did he said true guidance to both the segment.
3.Did he lied to both the segment and is a fraudster?


in same way a senior math professor
taking basic math classes for primary level school students.
explain them the cardboard as square with 2 sides and be measured in sqr inches/foot
He spoke half truth based on syllabus and understanding capacity of the children, as they would know the full truth in higher classes.
He knew cardboard was of 2 mm thickness, with 6 sided(not 2) and also be measured in cubic inches/feet.
His qualification did not change.

In same MHI SPEAKS AT LEVEL 4-5 to general
audience and level 7 n beyond when he makes a Farman.

I challenge that ginan/qasidas of certifed pirs/dais is 5 time superior than
speech of MHI.
BECAuSE THEY AR AT LEVEL 7.
and farmans of MHI ARE MANY AMNY TIMES superior than ginan/qasidas.


One zahiri donkey who does not the level use by many person can argues endlessly, as a zahiri can be beeter of by not accepting any unseen.
if one says 'I have a good Idea in my mind'
he will say I will noly hear if I see your mind physically.
a person following speeches is an Agakhani, person follwing Imam cosmetically can be Imami,and person following his Farman truly is Imaani.

I feel all members are feeding grass a donkey at lower end tariqat level,
who is clever in misleading with volume postings.
During fatimid
there was Diawaa/Dwaat akin to IIS to today.
Imam were rulers.ehat did produce.
did they make one Ismaili then form their presentation.
one marfati Dai with zero admin support inspired many thousand then.

all these tariqati educated scholars eating imam salary resulted in.
This was the phase when clever ones took advantage of thier explanation
Of Imam then and few splits apprx 3-5 took in those periods like druze, alids,bohri etc.
I will once again remeber Imam SMS farman to ignore braying n Barking
of Zahiris.

admin must moderate all posting which is seen as misleading the faithful
on the sites.

[tret]

I also concur 100% with Farmans of the Imam as you do but I believe the opposite of what you do.

And that is perfectly alright. After all everyone grasp Farmaan of the Imam according to his capacity.

If the Noor is not Allah, what is Allah?

You know, that is an excellent question. Let's see what our holly Du'a says in the last section in sura Ikhlas, which we are reciting 3 times everyday. BTW, MHI guidance was as well to understand the concept of God (Allah) in accordance with sura Ikhlas (I hope you do believe in Qur'an). That would be my understanding of Allah. Now, what's your understanding of Allah?

And if Allah does not guide you through his Noor (his Farmans) who will guide you, be it in public on the Internet or in private in your meditation?

It is not only on the Internet that there is no privacy, anything said anywhere is known to all immediately so does this mean we have to hide from our children the basic of our faith, of our understanding of Imam as Mazhar of Allah, or even Farmans fearing that if we make them available to our children they may fall into non-Ismaili hands?

Admin I'd suggest, if you participate which is apparently appreciated, follow the discussion closely. The question of public vs private came up because Mr kmaherali thinks that whatever we discuss in these forums are considered private and only ismaili can access/view the content. Thus, saying things like Ali is Allah would be okay. (Now you agree with me that these forums can be accessed by anyone; we even have non ismaili participant). Admin, there was never the discussion of hiding your belief and faith from your children. I have no idea where did you come up with such an irrational idea? Teach your children the essence of our faith and Tariq a and our core values and when they become mature hopefully one day, they will start their soul searching journey themselves, like you and i.

What would anyone achieve by knowing the status of the other people on this Forum. Look at the message being posted and comment on it instead of trying to make it a personal matter. May the Light of Ali guide all of us.

Not really much. But my question was relevant and has a purpose related to the topic. I normally don't ask this. It's rather manifested in the speech and deeds of a person, which I don't see in this case here.

[nuseri]

To tret:Ya Ali Madad.

The concept God it to be inspired from Farman and Ginan/Qasidas.
and not by the minutes of a conference signed by a leader.

WHERE IS THE FARMAN THE KNOW HIM/ALLAH ONLY FROM SURAH IKLAS

one simple question:PLEASE REPLY IN ONE WORD.
no is single disaster n yes is double disaster.
Are you living off from institution or organization funded by MHI?

All the matter in conference n constitution are formal definition of our religious belief with chosen
safe guarded words for some purpose for institution buildings and PRO
and safe guard purpose to produce it in any court of law,registration,treaties,collaboration etc,etc etc.
the core values of our faith come from Farman n ginan/qasidas.
I am moderately skeptical of IIS.
MHI has told all to learn fronpast fatimid era.
If Daawa (collegium of religious scholars) produce some good papers
n book then.
Imam were rulers then.
Did they made one ismaili then in spite on being payroll of the Imamat.
If they would been just 10% successful in portraying the truth of Imam,today Egypt would been an Ismaili countries.
As a matter of fact the presentations and advantage taken by enemies of Imamat could been a part in down fall of Fatimid Era.

IIS should do deep introspection of this.

This is also a new fatimid era on upswing with IIS on Imamat funding
1.have tariqati level presentation with fringe of haqiqati in it.
2. ZERO bAATIN MEANING OF aYATS TO taken ON OTHER sects.

3.Low quality oF non Haqaqati Alwaez's grooming.

ALI speaks out of prophet and pirs to tell his truth.

ALI can also give whip to his bold momeen to straighten out IIS.
(admin is one example)
They all mostly Tariqati Mules and few Haqiqiati Horses there, no stallion
in sight yet to bring laurels to Imam.

the best part of past fatimid was Imaan of the follower,Works of great Imams.
and preaching of Dai Nasir khusraw.

I assume Dawaa may been a disaster then.

[tret]

WHERE IS THE FARMAN THE KNOW HIM/ALLAH ONLY FROM SURAH IKLAS

There's a Farmaan of MHI that emphasizes to learn and understand the meaning of our Du'a!

Do you understand the meaning of our Du'a? Do you understand the meaning of Surah Ikhlas [the last section of our Du'a]?

[nuseri]

Ya ali madad.
He has made farman to understand the ginans and quran as well and thru Alwaez understand the levels of OUR majlis and contents n effect of tasbih.

In all phases of Imamat.
the down fall were caused by over smart n clever tariqatis with variety of doctrines over Imam's farman.

I would request any member to post in simple translated English Farman
of Imam SMS said on Nuseri. AND OTHER FARMANS.

whether this shallow misleading tariqati
1. absolutely believes IN it.
2. concur on it.
3.escape from it.

[tret]

Ya ali madad.
He has made farman to understand the ginans and quran as well and thru Alwaez understand the levels of OUR majlis and contents n effect of tasbih.

In all phases of Imamat.
the down fall were caused by over smart n clever tariqatis with variety of doctrines over Imam's farman.

I would request any member to post in simple translated English Farman
of Imam SMS said on Nuseri. AND OTHER FARMANS.

whether this shallow misleading tariqati
1. absolutely believes IN it.
2. concur on it.
3.escape from it.

why are you avoiding a very simple question? Are you now trying to reject Farmaan of the MHI by another Farmaan?

Please do post the Farmaan and lets discuss.

MHI made clear Farmaan to LEARN AND UNDERSTAND our holly Du'a. Are you denying this Farmaan?

Back to question. Do you understand the meaning of our Du'a? Do you understand surah Ikhlas?

[kmaherali]

Dear kmaherali - you didn't answer my question. So have you attained the status or not ?

A simple yes or no would do



It's funny you -- on the one hand -- say it's advised not to say it who [attained the status] publicly -- So you pretend to avoid it on public forums, on the other hand you say it's okay to say Ali is Allah In these forums; because we are discussing this between jama'at?.

Dear tret

I did not answer because it is not an appropriate question to ask in light of the BUK Farmans which state that you should not discuss the attainment with anyone including members of your own immediate family! It is an individual matter.

I 100% concur with Imams Farmaan, and yet tell you Imam is not Allah.

OK then I have nothing more to say.

[kmaherali]

There's a Farmaan of MHI that emphasizes to learn and understand the meaning of our Du'a!

Do you understand the meaning of our Du'a? Do you understand the meaning of Surah Ikhlas [the last section of our Du'a]?

Dua represents the Zahir of our faith. It is a statement of our beliefs by which we project our identity to the world. The Zahir can change: for example 60 years ago our fathers and forefathers used to recite Ali Sahi Allah in Dua. That was the Zahir at that time.

So the Batin which we have been told in our Farmans, ginans and qasidas will remain the same.

The Surah Ikhlas can be interpreted as the One is the Imam (which is the Batin). According to our Ginans the Mazhar of the One (the indesrcibable, he who is above all else ) is the Imam.

[tret]

Dear tret

I did not answer because it is not an appropriate question to ask in light of the BUK Farmans which state that you should not discuss the attainment with anyone including members of your own immediate family! It is an individual matter.

And yet you admit openly Ali is Allah.

Dua represents the Zahir of our faith. It is a statement of our beliefs by which we project our identity to the world. The Zahir can change: for example 60 years ago our fathers and forefathers used to recite Ali Sahi Allah in Dua. That was the Zahir at that time.

Zahir vs Batin is a good sheild to hide, when you don't have any good reason


I am simply repeating myself, and I hope you get it this time. Essence of faith doesn't change. The exoteric practice of faith changes according to time and space. When MHI says to learn and understand our Du'a, it doesn't mean the translation only. It means to understand the esoteric meaning of the Du'a.

- then kindly, please tell me, what's the esoteric meaning of surah Ikhlas?

So the Batin which we have been told in our Farmans, ginans and qasidas will remain the same.

And what's that?

The Surah Ikhlas can be interpreted as the One is the Imam (which is the Batin). According to our Ginans the Mazhar of the One (the indesrcibable, he who is above all else ) is the Imam.

kmaherali - can you please clarify your stand?
- On the one hand you say Ali[Imam] is Allah
- On the other hand, you say Imam is the Mazhar of the One, the indescribable?

So, which one is it? Because to me, these two position are not the same.

Surah Ikhlas is referring to indescribable. The God the unknown. Where as Mazhar of the One is the Imam, only through whom one can understand the Indescribable.

[agakhani]

The Zahir can change: for example 60 years ago our fathers and forefathers used to recite Ali Sahi Allah in Dua. That was the Zahir at that time.

Tret,

Here is another proof from a IIS graduate; that in Indo Pak the word "Ali Sahi Allah" was used to recite in old dua.

BTW: we have big discussion earlier on this topic, please click the link below, but I think you were not accepted it that time and I doubt you will ever accept it!??

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... &start=270

[nuseri]

To DOUBLE DISASTER:Ya Ali Madad.
For a person taking 100% salary( worthy of not even 25% of it) and having 50% in MHI is a double disaster.

I am off shariat from age of 14. I personally cannot recite our dua properly.
the day I broke the word Allah by a big axe( no small blade or hackshaw)
to break free the chains of shariat.
Break the word you see Marfat .the veil n chain if off
that of braking free from shariat will come from momeens act first than a divine order.

I have posted many baatin meaning of many ayats in this topic n other topic as well.

In out daily practice of tariqa the time taken is
for one dua,tasbih,farman,ginan/qasida is min 25 minute and 1 hour of ibadaat.
In total 1 hour 25 minutes the one small part of dua is may be 30 sec to a minute.
so the cosmetic value of surah Iklas/kalas or talas is appx 0.5%.

for me shariat is zero value like the discarded word 'Lah'.
for haqiqati , ask them it could be in micro percentage like candle light against sun light.
I earlier gave an example:
In our lavish tariqat spread.
prayers are like salads.
ginan/qasidas are starters
Farmans are main course
Ibaadat is dessert.

now salad has mostly 5-7 vegetables. and onion or carrot( 1 part of dua) is one of them.
to people who eat double dose of salad of 1370 years recipe 5 times a day were shown one onion/carrot as to appease them that we also eat the same.
NOTHING TO GET CARRIED AWAY ON IT.
For us the same onion is there in starters with better preparation
and taste. like kababs with side onions, onion bhajiya, etc etc.
surah iklas is like a peanut shown to ward off monkies as theygo mad over it a spare the lavish spread on the table.

you r a like a child in a primary class want only to know 50 % of card board explanation to you.

Tariqat is 50% faith in Ali ,As for other 50% they may not be yet blessed.
even haqiqat l are at 67% faith ,as they still await the baatin n noorani
attainment.

you are out of immense frustration n ability to write in hi fi english ,post
many doses of crap which no haqiqati is interested.
what you have is collection of peanuts and the reader here are not monkies.

you should if clever enough go on shia 12er site all least convince one
that ALI/Imam is not in hiding ( He never was/may be low profile).

[Admin]

I always laugh when I see people measuring faith like they measure water in ml or mg and putting percentage and level to concepts of which they have no clue.

Our Imam said faith can not be measured by human norms and that is also my stand on this.

[tret]

dear nuseri -

Something is really bothering you, and I am not sure what is it? What is it that you are trying to prove? We are not savages and I am sure we can have civilized conversation and try and learn from one an other, as opposed to quarreling. Anyways,

So, according to you Farmaan is the main course, and the final order of the Imam and every murid MUST obey it. I can't agree more on this one. I do believe that Farmaeen of the Imam must be followed and the final order. Therefore, I'd like to quote one of the Farmaan on Du'a. [You said you don't know your Du'a properly].



"I would like each and every spiritual child not only to know the Du'a by heart, but to understand the meaning of the Du'a"

Poona, 22 February, 1969


So, here, you clearly disobey the Farmaan of the Imam, are you not? If you truly consider yourself an spiritual child, then the very first thing you do tonight, start memorizing the Du'a by heart, first. Then do an effort to understand the meaning of the Du'a. At least you fulfill this Farmaan of the Imam.

I have nothing further to say about your personal comments. I am sure, participants are intelligent enough to recognize who's who. After all, we manifest our knowledge and faith in our speech and deeds.

One last thing - Mauwla Ali says, if you see someone commit a sin at night; tomorrow when you see him, don't look at him [or judge him] that he committed a sin last night. You don't know, he may have repented during the night, and is forgiven by morning. [Not exact words]. so, my point is, assumption [or rather prejudice] is not of wise people.

[Admin]

Definately, Dua and Dassond are the foundation of the Faith

[agakhani]

Tret,
That is your mistake to judge anybody"s iman, there were and still there are many Ismailis who doesn"t know Dua! I know there is farman of MHI that every one should know our dua with meaning but that is for not all, my mom, my sisters they do not know dua! because they are not educated persons that does not mean they are not obey the farmans of MHI! are they?

BTW: if I says that you are also not obeying the farmans! Then what would you answer me? answer the following questions to your self, you do not need to answer me.
1, there is a farman actually many farmans not to speak lie, are you obey this?
2, there are many farmans on ginans : ginans to read. Are you reading ginans?
3, There are many,farmans to go JK evening and mornings, are you go both of times?
4, there are many farmans on giving chokhhi/correct dasonds. Are you giving it?
Actually you have to look in your Gireban before you can accuse any one.

[tret]

Tret,
That is your mistake to judge anybody"s iman, there were and still there are many Ismailis who doesn"t know Dua! I know there is farman of MHI that every one should know our dua with meaning but that is for not all, my mom, my sisters they do not know dua! because they are not educated persons that does not mean they are not obey the farmans of MHI! are they?

BTW: if I says that you are also not obeying the farmans! Then what would you answer me? answer the following questions to your self, you do not need to answer me.
1, there is a farman actually many farmans not to speak lie, are you obey this?
2, there are many farmans on ginans : ginans to read. Are you reading ginans?
3, There are many,farmans to go JK evening and mornings, are you go both of times?
4, there are many farmans on giving chokhhi/correct dasonds. Are you giving it?
Actually you have to look in your Gireban before you can accuse any one.

First of all, I never judged anyone. At least I didn't intend to judge anyone. I simply brought forward Mr Nuseri's argument, when he said "farmaan are main course" and everything else is for monkies.

Second of all, there's a difference when someone can't study [learn] the Du'a due to restriction, such as education, language barrier, etc [in case of your mother, for example].. and when someone deliberately doesn't want to study [in case of Mr Nuseri]. The point I want to make, when someone is capable of obeying the Farmaan, and don't obey it, then he's not doing farmanbardari.

I can't read or understand ginan, simply because I don't understand the gujurati language. But whenever, I can, I read the english translation.

All the other things you mentioned, are personal between murid and murshid and saying I do all this or I don't do all this really doesn't change anything. I don't want to boast that I do obey all Farameen. But, everyone should try to obey the Farameen to the best of their ability.

Again, my intention was never to judge. Only because mr. right, deliberately stated that he doesn't know his Du'a [And I am sure he is educated enough to learn and make an effort to learn the meaning of it]. Not only that, but he also doesn't care about the Du'a or to understand the meaning of it. Please re-read his post.

[nuseri]

to double disaster:Ya Ali Madad:
I understood by grace the quran in baatin from young age it delivered me to ALI straight away.
I synchronized my breath with ya Ali 24x7 .
that is my effort n destination.
a professor will tell at different level classes from primary to post graduates what to do.
there is farman that ,if you don have time or convenience of space ( lie travelling by standing in a crowded bus take out your tasbish n take name
Ya Ali ,Ya mohammed or Ya Allah in lieu of it.
I mastered the 'ya ali' in my system may be before my birth.
so I AM OUT OF SHARIAT.
I know Quran with baatin depth n not just face value of words.
OUR DESTINATION IS tahwid ,unifing our soul n toughts with him and not just bog down to act of prayers to show somebody our remind somebody.
Our TARIQA IS OF SUFISM
that is also said in Farman of Baatin where physical has no role to play
but more of mind as starter n then soul takes over.
I AM NOW FULL CONVINCED THAT YOU ARE A CLASSIFIED DONKEE.
you are a wasted IsmailiE trying to end up in recycle wastebin.

[nuseri]

To Admin;Ya Ali madad.
I will make you laugh more because even a t haqiqat it is 67% truth n 33% denial.
If someone says or writes A& B should be balanced or A&B are equally important.
what does words equal n balance mean.
any primary school child if told to express it in mathematical expression
hat child will A& B is/should be 50:50 ratio.
SIMPLE.
there is a Farman/speech of MHI stating that Intellect and Faith are two side of the same coin.
If intellect can be tested ( entrance test,IQ test,Mensa) and scores or marks
and percentile of the total.Same with advance skill set a person may able
to make an assesment form it own logic or tables.
My table is a s below:
Ignoranace at level 1 is zero% knowledge of truth
and Gnosis/tawhid/marifat at level 7 is 100% knowlege of truth.
so I place other 5 level at level in mutilpes of 16.66% of level 7.
level 2= common sense=16.66% of level 7
level 3= rational sense=33.33 of level 7
level 4= rational sense with conscience=50% of level 7
level 5=intelligence=66.7% of level 7
level 6=genius= 83.3% of level 7.

Spiritual process is a journey with station on the way not a straight jump.
It does come with the noor within you of your past lives.
If one observes closely our level of Majlis and Khidmat offered to MHI
has numerical figures.
Pirs in Ginan have used Numerical numbers to advance of soul from Ignorance to level of haqiqat as life cycle Lakh choryasi.
why don't you laugh at them for arriving as a fancy figure in millions.
I am just with my own weird theory playing in percentile under 3 figures.

had a good laugh,at least word of thanks needed from you for this above joke.

[tret]

dear nuseri -

Call me what you wish. But, I don't judge you. On the contrary, I pray that you may find what you are looking for. You pretend to have found what you were looking for, and if that's true, then I am happy for you. But, at least it doesn't manifest from the way you are exhibiting. Anyways, it's non of my business how good you shout Ali is Allah. After all, it's your problem, not mine. We are here for one purpose, and one purpose only. To share & learn. From the very beginning, you haven't posted any useful information, except boasting how good you shout on top of your lung Ali is Allah [oh, wait... ALI+LAH=ALLAH]. But, fact of the matter is, no body cares about your faith or iman. And you can't prove it by boasting. your iman is known to Mauwla, and let's leave it to Mauwla to judge us who's monkey and who's not! apparently everyone's to the straight path, according to themselves, but only God knows. that's why to judge, is a sign of weakness. You just showed yours.

Imam never contradicts Himself. You are rejecting Imam's Farmaan, by providing another Farmaan? Tell me, what's wrong with memorizing and understanding the meaning of the Du'a? Is it really harmful and make every murid goomrah? Then why Imam asks us to be regular at Jama'at khana? Why Imam asks us to memorize and understand the meaning of our Du'a? Well, my good friend, you apparently have your own weird theory, and if you are happy with it, then I am happy for you.

Shariat, Tariqat, Haqiqat, Mahrifat and Fana are all stations, much like steps of the stairs that one must pass through each one. Until and unless you don't fully understand one, you can not proceed to the next station. You boast that you don't need shariat, tariqat and haqiqat, but you have no clue even about shariat, let alone higher stations. I think you are illusionist, in your mind you are up above, but in reality, you maybe lower than those who regularly exercise shariat. That's my understanding, but God knows best.

Our tariqa may have affinity with sufism, but our tariqa is NOT sufi. Ours is better actually. You need to study our faith vs sufism to understand the differences. Saying that our faith is sufi, is purely out of ignorance. And btw, you say that based on what? based on your gut feeling? or it just sounds good? or you want everyone to just take your words?

You say you know batin of Qur'an, and yet you have no clue what's surah Ikhlas is all about. It's funny isn't it?

And please no name calling. Leave that for high school kids, unless you are one.

Just a friendly tip, and please don't get it the wrong way. Improve your English a bit. After all, that's also one of the Farmaan of the Imam. [oh, wait... you don't care about Farameen of the Imam. Never mind]

[Admin]

To Admin;Ya Ali madad.
I will make you laugh more because even a t haqiqat it is 67% truth n 33% denial.
Pirs in Ginan have used Numerical numbers to advance of soul from Ignorance to level of haqiqat as life cycle Lakh choryasi.
why don't you laugh at them for arriving as a fancy figure in millions.
I am just with my own weird theory playing in percentile under 3 figures.

had a good laugh,at least word of thanks needed from you for this above joke.

I agree that you can put numerical numbers and percentages. I am sorry, I just did not realise that Hazar Imam had already appointed you as Pir of all Ismailis but since you have been, please accept my 62.438% apology and my 59.638% respect.

[Valani]

Dear brother Nuseri:

Somehow I could not stop myself from posting again on this thread, I have been following this thread closely though.

I must applaud your table of spiritual process, as explained below:

My table is a s below:
Ignoranace at level 1 is zero% knowledge of truth
and Gnosis/tawhid/marifat at level 7 is 100% knowlege of truth.
so I place other 5 level at level in mutilpes of 16.66% of level 7.
level 2= common sense=16.66% of level 7
level 3= rational sense=33.33 of level 7
level 4= rational sense with conscience=50% of level 7
level 5=intelligence=66.7% of level 7
level 6=genius= 83.3% of level 7.

Spiritual process is a journey with station on the way not a straight jump.

You have described the spiritual process in so simple and common way and made it look absolutely a simple process, it may have been this simple for you and I pray to God that it becomes that simple for all seekers.

However, allow me to write that calling names for others can never be considered a civilized way of communication, I would humbly request you to please try and avoid calling names while expressing your point with authority.

My good wishes for you.
Valani

[nuseri]

to tret:Ya Ali Madad.
there are 2 full surah in our dua.the surah iklas could one
kullu allah u ahad,allah u samad etc.

before quran ,christanity even still have belief that jesus christ being physical son og God and hindus
has belief of whole family of brahma /vishnu with son ganesh even as god.(many god heads with equal powers
many religion potrayed some entity with another or animal,sun etc.
to end thier belief and put finaly an Ayat by Ali+lah=Allah.
it say that the noor of allah is not born thru anybody and it has co partners
and it is independent.
further than than ,I wish any Quran scholar to post the Ayat with qualatative translation.
I will go word by word on it.
Do you have anybody claiming to be god on earth?
only Imam out of his farmans has done that often
and riding away to glory.

[tret]

to tret:Ya Ali Madad.
there are 2 full surah in our dua.the surah iklas could one
kullu allah u ahad,allah u samad etc.

before quran ,christanity even still have belief that jesus christ being physical son og God and hindus
has belief of whole family of brahma /vishnu with son ganesh even as god.(many god heads with equal powers
many religion potrayed some entity with another or animal,sun etc.
to end thier belief and put finaly an Ayat by Ali+lah=Allah.
it say that the noor of allah is not born thru anybody and it has co partners
and it is independent.
further than than ,I wish any Quran scholar to post the Ayat with qualatative translation.
I will go word by word on it.
Do you have anybody claiming to be god on earth?
only Imam out of his farmans has done that often
and riding away to glory.

Well, that's your understanding and opinion. I certainly respect and appreciate it. But, others may have different take on it.

For example, according to our Da's and Pirs, God almighty transcends human capacity in every single dimension. Whatever we think God is, that's not! If we try and find out what God is, that would be our fabrication and is turned away from HIM and returned to us.

That's why Mazhar of God has to come amongs us[humans] to helps us recognize and understand God through HIM[His Command, The Lord, The Master].

I repeated so many times, that when Imam speaks as Eternal Imam [That's Noor-e-Imamate aka Nur-e-Muhammadan], then HE the Imam says, He is the creator, the sustainor, the First and Last, the Ressurector, the Alpha and Omega, and phrases as such. Now, these are very powerful statements and apparently no human can declare that. It's only the epiphany of the Command, The Lord can say that. And the audience are specific, those who can truly digest such powerful words.

We need to recognize the Manifest Imam vs Eternal Imam [or rather when Imam speaks as Eternal Imam].

So, surah Ikhlas truly teach us to recognize God as unconditional absoluteness that transcends human intellect and reasoning. To associate any attribution to God, would be considered anthropomorphism [or shirk] and we seek refuge to God from that. God says He forgives all sins, but not shirk.

[nuseri]

To Admin: Ya Ali Madad.
In Farman of Imam SMS .He said very Ismaili has the potential to become like Pirs ,he even named them. and also said further can be like him( deep meaning at tariqat level n not marifat).
why should we not strive for it.
every day in n out we pray in tasbih for haqiqati samaj ,baatin n noorani bliss and and mukhi blesses us every morning n evening for the same.
may be one n many could be blessed out from it.

I personally know who I(my soul) was from nearly 1400 year with various jouma of Imams but may not wish to open it.

I see you as rock solid haqiqati.
Imam SMS said that his one Haqiqati ( not tariqati) Momeen equals to 1 lac non believers.
If were to tell your value in eyes of Imam at the ratio here is 1:100000 other persons on earth
would you laugh or say Ameen.
the call or your act is totally yours.

we Ismailis have all the potential to become
as Ali at tariqat level( he speaks out of us).
IF we embrace n unify with him at marifat level.

[tret]

dear nuseri -

I maybe low level shariati according to you. I may not know as much as you know, probably. However, you should explain to me what you know, so I benefit from your knowledge.

I think if someone truly reaching higher stations -- such as Mauwlana-i-Rumi -- then he should be able to beautifully explain these matters to those in lower stations. That's what I expect from you. Can you do that?

Before Rumi met Shams Tabriz, he [Rumi] was a muddaris [A teacher] and was teaching the whole community of Damishq. He was a seeker and was very versed with Qur'an. But, when Rumi met Shams Tabriz, he abandon everything. the shariat, the school, the books, everything and he was in love with Shams [Who was the Perfect Man for Rumi], through whom Rumi reached higher stations. However, he was still capable of explaining to other people of Damishq who were -- according to you -- low level shariati. Rumi completely understood all stations of shariat, haqiqat and mahrifat.

Another example: A university student is discussing math with first grader. We know that the knowledge of the university student is way surpass the knowledge of the first grader, in this discussion of math. But, is it wise of the university student to belittle the first grader and call him names, just because he hasn't acquired the knowledge yet? Should he[university student] tell him[the first grader] things like "you don't need addition and subtraction", "you need to know the sin and cosin". This would be really silly of him. He[university student] should instead, explain at the first grade level and try to teach him the ABC of the math, and eventually, once he gets to university level, then he will understand it.

So, in this context, I guess you would be at university level, and I am at first grade. So, can you do the honor and explain to me the ABC, and save the name calling and insulting, so I too eventually can learn and understand.

[tret]

please accept my 62.438% apology and my 59.638% respect.

[agakhani]

I just did not realise that Hazar Imam had already appointed you as Pir of all Ismailis but since you have been, please accept my 62.438% apology and my 59.638% respect.

Admin,
I didn't know till today that you have also scenes of humor!!