Where is the English guidance?

[Listener]

Salam,

I am looking for some authoritative works in English by Hazar Imam but I am finding none. I must say I'm not Ismaili although my interests have taken me into exploring the da'wah. I am a practicing Ithna'ashari but I feel the need to investigate the validity of claims made by the Ismaili imams. I'm looking for what seems to be called "farmans." It seems like there is absolutely no material in English which thoroughly explains the religion or the much needed guidance of the imam in this present day of social and economic change. I don't know if this stuff is only shared in the jamatkhanas because it seems to be nonexistent. Can someone please help me out, I'm frustrated that I can read something spiritually guiding from Hazar Imam. Btw, I only speak English.

[tret]

Salam,

I am looking for some authoritative works in English by Hazar Imam but I am finding none. I must say I'm not Ismaili although my interests have taken me into exploring the da'wah. I am a practicing Ithna'ashari but I feel the need to investigate the validity of claims made by the Ismaili imams. I'm looking for what seems to be called "farmans." It seems like there is absolutely no material in English which thoroughly explains the religion or the much needed guidance of the imam in this present day of social and economic change. I don't know if this stuff is only shared in the jamatkhanas because it seems to be nonexistent. Can someone please help me out, I'm frustrated that I can read something spiritually guiding from Hazar Imam. Btw, I only speak English.

If you are looking only for reason and proof; I think it should come only from yourself; and since you are a Shia already, it should be even easier, because you already believe in the concept of Imamiah.

Think about it; when a man wanted to become muslim during beloved Prophet; then he would come to the Prophet, and take His hand to gave bayhat. At ghadir-e-khum when Maula Ali's hands were raised and the Prophet said whoever is I am Maula; Ali is their Maula and asked everyone to gave their bayhat to Maula Ali.

What's my point here?


In todays day and age, if one wanted to give his bayhat, then who's hand should he take to give his bayhat?

Is it that person's fault that he wasn't born during Hazrat Ali or Prophet to give his bayhat? Now that Hand MUST be present at all times. It's for us to seek and find out! (I'd suggest you read Book of Travel by Nasir-i-Khusraw who was also originally an Isna Sharia then become one of the iconic figure and Dai of Ismailies during Mawlana Mustansir--billah)

Besides, Prophet Mohammad said he would leave two weighty things behind which will continue to exist till day of judgement, and I think you know what are those.

Farmans are exclusively for Ismailies; but there are a lot of materials (works of Dai's Pir's ) that you can read about Ismailies Doctrine and beliefs.

[Listener]

Even though I do believe the Ismaili persuasion is a more logical choice than 12'er and all other forms of Shiism, since there is a living imam, I don't feel it's as simple as just using logic when giving allegiance to someone or something. I give allegiance to the Qur`an because it's accessible to me but the imam of this present day is not accessible. If I could simply speak with Hazar Imam then I'd know whether or not he is truly imam. I feel he is my imam but I don't know it, I'm not absolute, if you get what I'm saying. There is doubt. This is why I'm looking to study Farmans because I'll be able to judge better before making an oath; my mind will be certain. I need the words of Hazar Imam himself about matters of the religion. All my studying as led me to understand a few basic principles of what Hazar Imam teaches, that is education, education, education—but where are his words for the believers? Where is the deep stuff spoken about by the Imam `Ali and Imam Sadiq etc.?

And also, I don't have a fortune to buy rare books about this kind of stuff, something which seems all too common in order to better learn about the da`wah.

[tret]

I totally understand what you are saying and I get it. It is not simple and doubt is certainly one of the stages of getting closer to haqiqat[realization], but don't let doubt to divert you from sirat-ul-mustaqim, that's why faith[Iman] is of emmense importantce in matters of faith. The good news is that you already believe in the concept of Imam and Imamat. What's important is that MHI is traced back to Maula Ali and the Prophet, which is should be more than enough for a believer.

Now, Qur'an obviously is the final words of God, which must be interpreted correctly according to time and age; that's why existance of Imam and guide is important, and I don't really think I should emphasize this point to you, since I am sure you know it already.

Speaking with Imam, I don't think will do anything if there's not belief. MHI appears just as a human being in his physical role; what's really really important for a believer is to realize and *see* HIS noor and hidayats. Believe is not a physical matter, it's totally spiritual and must come from your heart.

Again, Farameen are for Ismailies, exclusively. However, like I said, if you want to learn about Ismailie Doctrine and belief, there are loads of materials on the internet or you can buy the hardcover; which I believe could be very useful, should you be really interested. then, you can have an idea of what Ismailies all about.

Actually education is the very base and foundation which will lead you towards your journey of soul-searching. What else do you want to know? Maybe folks here could be of some help. What do you mean by 'deep stuff about Imam Ali or other Imams'?

[Listener]

I totally understand what you are saying and I get it. It is not simple and doubt is certainly one of the stages of getting closer to haqiqat[realization], but don't let doubt to divert you from sirat-ul-mustaqim, that's why faith[Iman] is of emmense importantce in matters of faith. The good news is that you already believe in the concept of Imam and Imamat. What's important is that MHI is traced back to Maula Ali and the Prophet, which is should be more than enough for a believer.

Now, Qur'an obviously is the final words of God, which must be interpreted correctly according to time and age; that's why existance of Imam and guide is important, and I don't really think I should emphasize this point to you, since I am sure you know it already.

Speaking with Imam, I don't think will do anything if there's not belief. MHI appears just as a human being in his physical role; what's really really important for a believer is to realize and *see* HIS noor and hidayats. Believe is not a physical matter, it's totally spiritual and must come from your heart.

Again, Farameen are for Ismailies, exclusively. However, like I said, if you want to learn about Ismailie Doctrine and belief, there are loads of materials on the internet or you can buy the hardcover; which I believe could be very useful, should you be really interested. then, you can have an idea of what Ismailies all about.

Actually education is the very base and foundation which will lead you towards your journey of soul-searching. What else do you want to know? Maybe folks here could be of some help. What do you mean by 'deep stuff about Imam Ali or other Imams'?

For me, the claim that Hazar Imam is a sayyid doesn't really assure me that his imamate is valid being that several imams were "hidden," and the first "exposed" imam since Imam Ja`far as-Sadiq was Abdullah al-Mahdi Billah who founded the Fatimid state. I cannot clearly judge whether his claims to imamate were politically or real. Several times in history the Ismaili community has lost touch with their imams which opens up the possibility of impostors. But I'm aware and in my heart it's a good case to mention that Hazar Imam is the only present claimant to the imamate. A question I have is whether the Qur`an mentions the existence of guides on earth till the day of judgment or not?

Lastly, how do I become Ismaili to receive farmans?

[tret]

For me, the claim that Hazar Imam is a sayyid doesn't really assure me that his imamate is valid being that several imams were "hidden," and the first "exposed" imam since Imam Ja`far as-Sadiq was Abdullah al-Mahdi Billah who founded the Fatimid state. I cannot clearly judge whether his claims to imamate were politically or real. Several times in history the Ismaili community has lost touch with their imams which opens up the possibility of impostors. But I'm aware and in my heart it's a good case to mention that Hazar Imam is the only present claimant to the imamate. A question I have is whether the Qur`an mentions the existence of guides on earth till the day of judgment or not?

Lastly, how do I become Ismaili to receive farmans?

First, Hazir Imam is not sayyid!! No Imam has been sayyid. (I don't know what do you mean by sayyid, but if you look at all Imams names, all the way upto 49th Imam, they are not Sayyid Ali, Sayyid Hussain, etc...), so forget sayyids, I don't believe in them either!!!

Second, it's not us claiming; it's the history that proves it! If you don't accept history as valid and authentic source, then I am not sure what else are you looking for? Simple reason is, no one can change history. Now, you are claiming that several Imams were on satr, that's very obvious that Ismailies were procecuted by others, if you have a little history knowledge, and it's only logical to be so!!, Like I said, it's only Iman and conviction that would lead you to realization and nothing else! no proof! or even speaking physically with MHI!!! I can guarantee that! Even when Imam was in satr, you are wrong my friend when you say "Ismailies lost touch with Imam"!!!! Ismailies had Dai's and Pir's who were divine that were delivering Farameen of MHI regularly to murids!!!

This is fact that I am saying, where I used to live, Ismailies didn't have any sort of contact with Imam of the time for a very very long time[/], but yet their faith were firm and the Farameen of MHI were delivered through the Dai's and Hujjats and Mukies of their time to jama'at!!! Like I said, and again I repeat, it's faith [the bayat] that bonds between murid and murshid!!

Unfortunately, I am not too versed on Qur'an academics, but I can guarantee you, that there are proofs in Qur'an about that!!! And my other brothers would be glad to provide them to you! [this is a call to my other brothers to provide a proof from Qur'an about importance of guide, please!]

Question for you first! Do you want to become Ismailie just to read the Farameen? Or you want to become Ismailie because you know and believe in your heart that it's the right path?

Only, if latter, then your motives are correct!!! in case of formmer, I don't think you should even try to attempt it!!! You don't need Farameen of MHI to become an ismailie!!! I think there are enough materials available for you to make a good spiritual decision about which path to follow!!!

[Admin]

Read the Speeches, you will find enough guidance for the rest o your life.

[zznoor]

Now, Qur'an obviously is the final words of God, which must be interpreted correctly according to time and age; that's why existance of Imam and guide is important, and I don't really think I should emphasize this point to you, since I am sure you know it already.

Is there official compilation of correct interpretion od Ayats of Quran?

[tret]

Now, Qur'an obviously is the final words of God, which must be interpreted correctly according to time and age; that's why existance of Imam and guide is important, and I don't really think I should emphasize this point to you, since I am sure you know it already.

Is there official compilation of correct interpretion od Ayats of Quran?

To Ismailies, Farameen mubarak are more than official! But, I guess you were looking for something thing else? Something like many many *official* ahadis books printed, most of which are not authentic even according to most sunni scholars!

[zznoor]

To Ismailies, Farameen mubarak are more than official! But, I guess you were looking for something thing else? Something like many many *official* ahadis books printed, most of which are not authentic even according to most sunni scholars!

There are no official hadith books. Individual scholars compiled Ahadith. Only authority in Islam is Quran. Any hadith cannot override command of Quran. No Imam, king, Khalif or scholar can change Quranic command as far as mainstream Islam is concerned.

Ahadith authentic or not is debatable. Shia will use hadith if it suits his argument. They will even use hadith narrated by hated personalities like Hurera, Aisha, Umar and Uthman.

We are not discussing this here.

Now Br tret said

Now, Qur'an obviously is the final words of God, which must be interpreted correctly according to time and age; that's why existance of Imam and guide is important, and I don't really think I should emphasize this point to you, since I am sure you know it already.

Now can you quote one or 2 Aya of Quran in its correct interpretation according to time and age by MHI?
And what was *not correct* interpretation in your or MHI's view?
BTW do not hide behind *Mubarak Farman* , you can paraphrase it as you understand.
JAK brother

[tret]

Let's see, what is *official* according to you? What makes something *official*?
In my opinion, something is *official* if it's approved by an authority. Like my driver's license is an office piece of ID, issued by the government.

Now, in matters of faith, according to you what makes something *official*?

To Ismailies, Farameen of MHI is official, because it comes from the Imam of the time WHO is THE authority in matters of faith. Again, it may not be to you and it's your preception and there's no way I can prove it to you otherwise.

Of course Qur'an is the final words of Allah tahala, and no one can or should change it. What's important to understand is it must be interpreted correctly according to time and age. this doesn't mean changing it. This is the beauty and power of Qur'an that what's in Qur'an is TRUE all the time! Content of Qur'an doesn't expire or invalidated ever! But, it must be interpreted accordingly!

Well, what ayat do you want to know? Like I said, it's not interpreted ayat by ayat, if that's what you are looking for, like your printed ahadis (most of which aren't even authentic). I am not hiding behind anything my good friend. I can certainly paraphrase Faraman mubarak, you ask a question, then I can answer you. Please go ahead!!




A very good example I can give you, is about jihad and the concept of jihad.
Most mainstreams take the concept of jihad litteral. Where as for us, it's NOT fighting and killing the infidles and unbelievers!!! It's strugle agains your nafs.
I remember you said something a while back, affirming that jihad means strugle agains your nafs, but reflecting on your posts, I really doubt that you believe stands corrected!

There are other concepts too which we interpret differently than mainstream orthodox muslims.





BTW, I really advise you to watch MHI's speeches that He made recently to address parliament of Canada and at Brown's University, if you have not done so already. Links are at the home front page of this site.

[zznoor]

Of course Qur'an is the final words of Allah tahala, and no one can or should change it

Are you sure?

According to Farman of SMS

Here is post by Siraz

Posted: 13 Dec 2009 10:45 am Post subject:
sister znanwalla , i say imam Al-Baqir did not had the possession of all the quran except allah[swt] .....it was in the year 1899 that our holy imam "SHAH SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH " said

" Khalifa Usman has omitted some portion of the Qur'an, and, he has inserted some portion. If I was to copy the Original Qur'an-e-Shariff it will take me six years. That too I will send you, so that you will come to know what has been omitted and what has been changed"
so do we ismailis have a different quran ,SISTER ZNANWALLA ??

MHI has not repudiated this so it is official, is it not?

There are other concepts too which we interpret differently than mainstream orthodox muslims.

May be you will have opportunity to list them too. Or you can do it now.

[tret]

Of course Qur'an is the final words of Allah tahala, and no one can or should change it

Are you sure?

According to Farman of SMS

Here is post by Siraz

Posted: 13 Dec 2009 10:45 am Post subject:
sister znanwalla , i say imam Al-Baqir did not had the possession of all the quran except allah[swt] .....it was in the year 1899 that our holy imam "SHAH SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH " said

" Khalifa Usman has omitted some portion of the Qur'an, and, he has inserted some portion. If I was to copy the Original Qur'an-e-Shariff it will take me six years. That too I will send you, so that you will come to know what has been omitted and what has been changed"
so do we ismailis have a different quran ,SISTER ZNANWALLA ??

MHI has not repudiated this so it is official, is it not?

There are other concepts too which we interpret differently than mainstream orthodox muslims.

May be you will have opportunity to list them too. Or you can do it now.

Show me where Qur'an has been changed? It was actually one of the trio caliph who tampered the Qur'an. I still stand corrected and firm, when I say Qur'an is the final words of Allah tahala!

I'd rather you ask something, and then I'll give my view on it; rather I post things that may not even be interesting to you. In general all shariati matters, we have different views, because we try to seek batini meanings, such as fast/hajj/jihad/etc... do you want me to explain them?

[zznoor]

It was actually one of the trio caliph who tampered the Qur'an.

I am sure you know where it was tempered!!! Or is it *Phantom* tempering?
Like *Phantom* Quran with *** .

batini meanings, such as fast/hajj/jihad/etc... do you want me to explain them?

No thanks, I do not believe in it. When Quran says you fast in Ramadan, you obey. When it says do Hajj and you can afford it then you do.
Prophet and Sahaba did it. They did not hide behind Batini.

[tret]

I am sure you know where it was tempered!!! Or is it *Phantom* tempering?
Like *Phantom* Quran with *** .

Yeah sure, it was mainly verses about Imamat that was committed! All scholars including shia and sunni now agree that Qur'an was not composed in the order which it was revealed.

No thanks

I thought so!

, I do not believe in it. When Quran says you fast in Ramadan, you obey. When it says do Hajj and you can afford it then you do.
Prophet and Sahaba did it. They did not hide behind Batini.

Also, when it says cut hands when steel, you believe in that too?
Sunnies being orthodox have laws to literally cut hands when steel.

if being a muslim is by worshiping kahba, then why blame idol worshipers?

God doesn't need you to come to hajj, just to pay your submission!!! You could do it right now from behind your keyboard, is the God I believe in! The God I believe in, is all knowing and understanding, which is closer than jugalar vain. Don't worship kahba, worship the owner of kahba! And for that, I really don't think you need to go all the way to mecca, and spend thausands of dollars that can be well spent helping your poor neighbour!

If there's no moral to shariat, there's no use for shariat! If you don't know why you are doing something, it's best not to do it at all!

[zznoor]

If there's no moral to shariat, there's no use for shariat! If you don't know why you are doing something, it's best not to do it at all!

Are you telling me, there is no *SHARIAT* in Ismaili religion?

[tret]

If there's no moral to shariat, there's no use for shariat! If you don't know why you are doing something, it's best not to do it at all!

Are you telling me, there is no *SHARIAT* in Ismaili religion?

I write in plain English, don't I?

If there's no moral to shariat, there's no use for shariat!!!

[zznoor]

if being a muslim is by worshiping kahba, then why blame idol worshipers?

For Allah's sake stop paddling that Muslim worship Kabba or Hajre Aswad.

[tret]

if being a muslim is by worshiping kahba, then why blame idol worshipers?

For Allah's sake stop paddling that Muslim worship Kabba or Hajre Aswad.

I am not saying that; I am implying the importance of moral of haj, rather than physically going to haj.

[zznoor]

If there's no moral to shariat, there's no use for shariat!!!

Off course there are moral aspect of 4 well known requirement of Mainstream Islam.

[tret]

If there's no moral to shariat, there's no use for shariat!!!

Off course there are moral aspect of 4 well known requirement of Mainstream Islam.

kindly elaborate!

[zznoor]

If there's no moral to shariat, there's no use for shariat!!!

Off course there are moral aspect of 4 well known requirement of Mainstream Islam.

If some ignorant Muslim do not understand that aspect, it should be not reason to abandon Namaaz, swam, Zakat and Hajj

[Admin]

Shariat is like a car. If you do not know where you are going or how to make it usefull or you are taking it into the wrong direction, you will never arrive to destination. Without the guidance of the Imam, Shariat is useless. It can not lead your soul to salvation. But Allah is Rahim and Raheman so he has provided for the fact that Intention is given a lot of importance in Islam.

[zznoor]

God doesn't need you to come to hajj, just to pay your submission!!!

Why it is in Quran? Allah's command.
Why did Prophet, Ali and Sahabas perform Hajj Al Vida?

[Admin]

God doesn't need you to come to hajj, just to pay your submission!!!

Why it is in Quran? Allah's command.
Why did Prophet, Ali and Sahabas perform Hajj Al Vida?

God's message should not be misused by uneducated and intolerant people to keep Muslims in the prison of the the past. God would never want His believers to live in the past, Islam is the religion of the future, not of the past. It is a way of life for ever at the present time, even in a million year. But ignorant people think that religion is frozen static and Allah does not have the power to make it a dynamic concept. What a shame!

[zznoor]

Shariat is like a car. If you do not know where you are going or how to make it usefull or you are taking it into the wrong direction, you will never arrive to destination.

Off course Muslim knows Destination, Jannah.
And to achieve it, Quran says perform Salat, Swam, Zakat and if possible Hajj.
In between all this it tells you to follow Straight line.
Prophet and many saints provided guidance to life of Straight line.

[zznoor]

God's message should not be misused by uneducated and intolerant people to keep Muslims in the prison of the the

To tell that a Muslim should follow Quran and observe Salat, Swam. zakat and Hajj is living in Past? How so?

[tret]

God doesn't need you to come to hajj, just to pay your submission!!!

Why it is in Quran? Allah's command.
Why did Prophet, Ali and Sahabas perform Hajj Al Vida?

that would be the moral!

[tret]

Shariat is like a car. If you do not know where you are going or how to make it usefull or you are taking it into the wrong direction, you will never arrive to destination.

Off course Muslim knows Destination, Jannah.
And to achieve it, Quran says perform Salat, Swam, Zakat and if possible Hajj.
In between all this it tells you to follow Straight line.
Prophet and many saints provided guidance to life of Straight line.

what's jannah according to you[mainstream orthodox]?

[Admin]

The world population will be traveling space soon. People will settle in far far galaxies.

But those living in the 14th Century will not progress. They will not go to other planets because there is no way they can turn to that black stone for their prayers when they are on other planets. They will remain the prisoners of the past, the children of the Shariah.

Good for you if you do not want to explore the wonders of the creation of Allah, at least one thing is sure, Ismailis will be found everywhere in the universe as said Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah, except in hell