What happens when you die? Do we come back? What do you think?
CHOPRA: Well, the soul goes into a period of incubation. When you go to sleep at night, your thoughts disappear. Your desires disappear. When you wake up in the morning, they're right there, OK. Similarly in death, the soul goes into incubation, it goes into what is called the virtual domain, which is just a field of possibilities. The context, the meanings, the relationships, the archetypal energies incubate, and then the soul takes a creative leap into a new context, a new set of relationships, a new pattern, a new location, in space time, a new body.
You come back.
What happens when you die?
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
deepak chopra
pls pls pls
for your info Deepak Chopra is not an Ismaili or a Muslim in the first place
I respect him and have heard a lot of his meditation thingysand all i can say is that as MHI has guided us that "take what is good and throw away the bad"
Pls consider to give a thought on what he is saying is based on hindu beliefs of reincarnations "and then the soul takes a creative leap into a new context, a new set of relationships, a new pattern, a new location, in space time, a new body"
According to our islamic and Ismaili beliefs i may say the soul does take a creative leap in a new context but definately not in a set of new relationship or body or space or time .............it takes a leap into an eternal life form where it came and it never dies......if it is blessed it then "fana fi allah" becomes One with ONE......there is no second chance to come back and do good deeds as such ......this is your only chance ......and we shud b gratefull to know that being born as muslims and ismailis.......
i can still further guide u on what happens after i die.........what type of BHOOT do u prefer jasmine?
for your info Deepak Chopra is not an Ismaili or a Muslim in the first place
I respect him and have heard a lot of his meditation thingysand all i can say is that as MHI has guided us that "take what is good and throw away the bad"
Pls consider to give a thought on what he is saying is based on hindu beliefs of reincarnations "and then the soul takes a creative leap into a new context, a new set of relationships, a new pattern, a new location, in space time, a new body"
According to our islamic and Ismaili beliefs i may say the soul does take a creative leap in a new context but definately not in a set of new relationship or body or space or time .............it takes a leap into an eternal life form where it came and it never dies......if it is blessed it then "fana fi allah" becomes One with ONE......there is no second chance to come back and do good deeds as such ......this is your only chance ......and we shud b gratefull to know that being born as muslims and ismailis.......
i can still further guide u on what happens after i die.........what type of BHOOT do u prefer jasmine?
Imam SMS
There are numerous farmans of Imam SMS where he has mentioned rebirth and explained how it works.
The ginans are replete with references to rebirth. Almost all Pirs have mentioned it.
The Quran has an Ayat which states that Allah will kill us then give us birth again and again kill us or something to that effect.
There have been private instances where MHI has mentioned something about a family member coming back. (I have a friend who was on duty outside the Bunglow of the person I am talking about when this happened
He was responsible for MHI's transportation at the time.
But if you have adopted the beliefs of the shariati muslims, even Imams farman will not be enough for you to accept what is a true fact (not belief).
Dude/dudette sit in bandagi and see for yourself what you were before this birth. Maybe then you will understand the whole concept of Karm and the laws it is made up of.
I could go on and on .
Hinduism is a religion. It doesn't have beliefs. The people that follow it have multitudes of beliefs.
Hope you can find the farmans I was referring to in KIM and BUK khangi farmans of Imam SMS.
Shams
The ginans are replete with references to rebirth. Almost all Pirs have mentioned it.
The Quran has an Ayat which states that Allah will kill us then give us birth again and again kill us or something to that effect.
There have been private instances where MHI has mentioned something about a family member coming back. (I have a friend who was on duty outside the Bunglow of the person I am talking about when this happened
He was responsible for MHI's transportation at the time.
But if you have adopted the beliefs of the shariati muslims, even Imams farman will not be enough for you to accept what is a true fact (not belief).
Dude/dudette sit in bandagi and see for yourself what you were before this birth. Maybe then you will understand the whole concept of Karm and the laws it is made up of.
I could go on and on .
Hinduism is a religion. It doesn't have beliefs. The people that follow it have multitudes of beliefs.
Hope you can find the farmans I was referring to in KIM and BUK khangi farmans of Imam SMS.
Shams
It looks like you're quoting old stuff from Chopra, here is what he said in his new book: (and I find him closest to Ismailism/esoterism then anyone else).
--------------
I IMAGINE THAT IF SPIRITUALITY sought sales advice from Madison Avenue, it would be, “Scare people about dying.” This tactic has been working for thousands of years. Because all we can see of death is that once you die you aren’t here anymore, this creates deep fear. There has never been a time when people weren’t desperate to know what lies “on the other side of life”.
But what if there is no “other side”? Perhaps death is only relative, not a total change. After all, each of us is dying every day, and the moment known as death is really just an extension of this process. St. Paul spoke of dying unto death, by which he meant having such strong faith in the afterlife and the salvation promised by Christ that death lost its power to generate fear. Yet dying unto death is also natural process that has been going on in cells for billions of years. Life is intimately entwined with death, as you can observe every time a skin cell is sloughed off. This process of exfoliation is the same as a tree dropping its leaves (the Latin word for “leaf” is folio), and biologists tend to think of death as a means for life to regenerate.
This view brings little comfort, however, when you face being the leaf falling off the tree to make room for next spring’s growth. Rather than discussing death in impersonal terms, I’d like to focus on your death, the supposed end of the you who is alive at this moment and wants to remain so. The personal prospect of death is the issue no one likes to confront, yet if I can show you what the reality of your death is, all this aversion and fear can be conquered, after which you can pay more attention to both life and death.
Only by facing death can you develop real passion for being alive. Passion isn’t frantic; it isn’t driven by fear. Yet right now, at an unconscious level, most people feel they are snatching life from the jaws of death, frantic with the knowledge that their time on earth is so brief. When you see yourself as part of eternity, however, this fearful snatching of crumbs from the table vanishes, and in its place you receive the abundance of life that we hear so much talk about but that so few people seem to possess.
Here’s a simple question: When you are a grandparent, you will no longer be a baby, a teenager, or a young adult. So when it comes time to go to heaven, which of these people is going to show up? Most people look totally baffled when they’re asked this question. It’s not a frivolous one. The person you are today isn’t the same person you were when you were ten years old. Certainly your body has changed completely from that of the ten-year-old. None of the molecules in your cells is the same, and neither is your mind. You certainly don’t think like a child.
In essence, the ten-year-old you once were is dead. From a ten-year-old’s perspective, the two-year-old you once were is also dead. The reason that life seems continuous is that you have memories and desires that tie you to the past, but these too are ever shifting. Just as your body comes and goes, so does the mind with its fleeting thoughts and emotions. When you are aware of being yourself without being attached to any particular age, you’ve found the mysterious observer within who doesn’t come and go.
Only witnessing awareness qualifies as that observer—it remains the same while everything else changes. The witness or observer of experience is the self to whom all experiences are happening. It would be futile to hold on to who you are at this moment in terms of body and mind. (People are baffled by which self they are going to take to heaven because either they imagine an ideal self going there or a self they have attached to their imaginations. At some level we all know that there was never an age that felt ideal, however.) Life needs to be fresh. It needs to renew itself. If you could beat death and remain just who you are—or who you were at the time of life you consider the best—you’d succeed only in mummifying yourself.
You are dying at every moment so that you can keep creating yourself.
--------------
I IMAGINE THAT IF SPIRITUALITY sought sales advice from Madison Avenue, it would be, “Scare people about dying.” This tactic has been working for thousands of years. Because all we can see of death is that once you die you aren’t here anymore, this creates deep fear. There has never been a time when people weren’t desperate to know what lies “on the other side of life”.
But what if there is no “other side”? Perhaps death is only relative, not a total change. After all, each of us is dying every day, and the moment known as death is really just an extension of this process. St. Paul spoke of dying unto death, by which he meant having such strong faith in the afterlife and the salvation promised by Christ that death lost its power to generate fear. Yet dying unto death is also natural process that has been going on in cells for billions of years. Life is intimately entwined with death, as you can observe every time a skin cell is sloughed off. This process of exfoliation is the same as a tree dropping its leaves (the Latin word for “leaf” is folio), and biologists tend to think of death as a means for life to regenerate.
This view brings little comfort, however, when you face being the leaf falling off the tree to make room for next spring’s growth. Rather than discussing death in impersonal terms, I’d like to focus on your death, the supposed end of the you who is alive at this moment and wants to remain so. The personal prospect of death is the issue no one likes to confront, yet if I can show you what the reality of your death is, all this aversion and fear can be conquered, after which you can pay more attention to both life and death.
Only by facing death can you develop real passion for being alive. Passion isn’t frantic; it isn’t driven by fear. Yet right now, at an unconscious level, most people feel they are snatching life from the jaws of death, frantic with the knowledge that their time on earth is so brief. When you see yourself as part of eternity, however, this fearful snatching of crumbs from the table vanishes, and in its place you receive the abundance of life that we hear so much talk about but that so few people seem to possess.
Here’s a simple question: When you are a grandparent, you will no longer be a baby, a teenager, or a young adult. So when it comes time to go to heaven, which of these people is going to show up? Most people look totally baffled when they’re asked this question. It’s not a frivolous one. The person you are today isn’t the same person you were when you were ten years old. Certainly your body has changed completely from that of the ten-year-old. None of the molecules in your cells is the same, and neither is your mind. You certainly don’t think like a child.
In essence, the ten-year-old you once were is dead. From a ten-year-old’s perspective, the two-year-old you once were is also dead. The reason that life seems continuous is that you have memories and desires that tie you to the past, but these too are ever shifting. Just as your body comes and goes, so does the mind with its fleeting thoughts and emotions. When you are aware of being yourself without being attached to any particular age, you’ve found the mysterious observer within who doesn’t come and go.
Only witnessing awareness qualifies as that observer—it remains the same while everything else changes. The witness or observer of experience is the self to whom all experiences are happening. It would be futile to hold on to who you are at this moment in terms of body and mind. (People are baffled by which self they are going to take to heaven because either they imagine an ideal self going there or a self they have attached to their imaginations. At some level we all know that there was never an age that felt ideal, however.) Life needs to be fresh. It needs to renew itself. If you could beat death and remain just who you are—or who you were at the time of life you consider the best—you’d succeed only in mummifying yourself.
You are dying at every moment so that you can keep creating yourself.
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
shamsu...........i did not attack u personally........why did u choose to attack saying i was a shariati ?????
and yes shamsu ..............whoever u r .......dont force upon us ur opinions as the only right opinion and yes please dont b attacking .........it is not upto u to decide whther anyones is shariati or not .........and u r haqiqati. Dont forget that u wud b commiting a crime of "shirk" if u make judgements (reserved only for GOD to take )about any other muslim faith........
.....have u read Hazar Imams baitul khayal farman?..........i was infact quoting hazar Imams baitul khayal farman without mentioning it.....Do u know the real batuni meaning of rebirth????........
Here is the BK farman
"Most of u in BK are young ,this is an excellent field.But remmember that though you are young you may have 40,50 inshallah 70 ,80,90 yrs to live,your lives are short.Your lives are very short and when you leave this world nothing goes with you,neither material nor physical,only your soul remains and your soul is eternal as is your life hereafter.Do not forget this."
if u need any more such farmans i can get it for u ......where Imam has very clearly said that life hereafter is just eternal......!!!!!!!!!.
These are not my words that Life hereafter is eternal.....
i think u need to sit in Ibadaat for sure .......
Let me advise u as i feel it is my duty to inform people who are ignorant
I think ONE has to certainly "need" to sit in bandagee. or Ibadaat ........when u sit for the first time ur mind will be full of thoughts as fi hard like a feel like a "STONE"......as u progreess in Ibadaat.........u will have a lot of "REBIRTHs"..........get up between 4 and 5 early morning .........sit in bandagee and eexperience it for yourself and u will remmmeber me..........and then u will understand the real meaning of so many ginans and farmans of MSMS that u are taking a literal meaning of "rebirth"
MSMS has a farman ..........."Jene potane odhakhiyo tene khuda ne odakhiyo"......and in Ibadaat u r doing exactly the same ..........u r trying to find the inner univers or urself ........and when u do that u will understand that u have actually found GOD.....and in this path u will have to shed away a lot of ur old beliefs aand they will be subsituted with new REAL understanding......your old notions will actually die........the old notions will actually be killed by the grace of GOD and he will guide u with his grace to new levels of understanding......
There is no way out other than Ibadaat to know "ONESELF"
and yes farmanbardari.......is NOT IBADAAT
Farmanbardari comes from Love of the Imam and will lead u eventually, force u so much that u will try to know yourself or find a way to know yourself and it will lead u to doing Ibadaat.......that is contemplating or trying to know Oneself.......
read MSMS farman of 29/9/1899 in which quotes Mowlana Rumi as saying that he was a stone first then from stone he became tree then ant then animal then monkey and then Insaan........
Do u really think that a great philosopher like Rumi was a stone? was he talking literally??????!!!!!!!!..........think about it
and yes i will not call u "shariati" for thinking literally .........i will call u "Nadaaan"
and yes shamsu ..............whoever u r .......dont force upon us ur opinions as the only right opinion and yes please dont b attacking .........it is not upto u to decide whther anyones is shariati or not .........and u r haqiqati. Dont forget that u wud b commiting a crime of "shirk" if u make judgements (reserved only for GOD to take )about any other muslim faith........
.....have u read Hazar Imams baitul khayal farman?..........i was infact quoting hazar Imams baitul khayal farman without mentioning it.....Do u know the real batuni meaning of rebirth????........
Here is the BK farman
"Most of u in BK are young ,this is an excellent field.But remmember that though you are young you may have 40,50 inshallah 70 ,80,90 yrs to live,your lives are short.Your lives are very short and when you leave this world nothing goes with you,neither material nor physical,only your soul remains and your soul is eternal as is your life hereafter.Do not forget this."
if u need any more such farmans i can get it for u ......where Imam has very clearly said that life hereafter is just eternal......!!!!!!!!!.
These are not my words that Life hereafter is eternal.....
i think u need to sit in Ibadaat for sure .......
Let me advise u as i feel it is my duty to inform people who are ignorant
I think ONE has to certainly "need" to sit in bandagee. or Ibadaat ........when u sit for the first time ur mind will be full of thoughts as fi hard like a feel like a "STONE"......as u progreess in Ibadaat.........u will have a lot of "REBIRTHs"..........get up between 4 and 5 early morning .........sit in bandagee and eexperience it for yourself and u will remmmeber me..........and then u will understand the real meaning of so many ginans and farmans of MSMS that u are taking a literal meaning of "rebirth"
MSMS has a farman ..........."Jene potane odhakhiyo tene khuda ne odakhiyo"......and in Ibadaat u r doing exactly the same ..........u r trying to find the inner univers or urself ........and when u do that u will understand that u have actually found GOD.....and in this path u will have to shed away a lot of ur old beliefs aand they will be subsituted with new REAL understanding......your old notions will actually die........the old notions will actually be killed by the grace of GOD and he will guide u with his grace to new levels of understanding......
There is no way out other than Ibadaat to know "ONESELF"
and yes farmanbardari.......is NOT IBADAAT
Farmanbardari comes from Love of the Imam and will lead u eventually, force u so much that u will try to know yourself or find a way to know yourself and it will lead u to doing Ibadaat.......that is contemplating or trying to know Oneself.......
read MSMS farman of 29/9/1899 in which quotes Mowlana Rumi as saying that he was a stone first then from stone he became tree then ant then animal then monkey and then Insaan........
Do u really think that a great philosopher like Rumi was a stone? was he talking literally??????!!!!!!!!..........think about it
and yes i will not call u "shariati" for thinking literally .........i will call u "Nadaaan"
YAM,yaaaahoooo wrote: There is no way out other than Ibadaat to know "ONESELF"
and yes farmanbardari.......is NOT IBADAAT
Farmanbardari comes from Love of the Imam and will lead u eventually, force u so much that u will try to know yourself or find a way to know yourself and it will lead u to doing Ibadaat.......that is contemplating or trying to know Oneself.......
In one of the Irshad Mubarak MHI stated: "....You should carry your faith in your heart and in your soul. This is the meaning of Ibaadat."
According to Pir Shahbudin in his "Risala Dar Haqiqati Din", faith (iman) is nothing but love in the heart. You can only love if you are Farman Bardari. Hence FarmanBardari is Ibaadat.
The meaning of Ibaadat is worship and in our Tariqah worship is FarmanBardari. If you kill somebody by the order of MHI, than it is Ibaadat. What you are referring to is Baitul Khayal which is an aspect of Ibaadat just like Dua and Dasond.
Performing Baitul khayal and aquiring knowledge enables you to understand yourself and therefore give you courage to be FarmanBardari which is the purpose of life for an Ismaili. On the other hand performing Baitul Khayal without FarmanBardari will lead to darkness.
Last edited by kmaherali on Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
I ACTUALLY DO THINK RUMI WAS TALKING LITERALLY!..and as an ismaili..i do believe in rebirth..if that makes me less of an ismaili in your eyes..so be it...yaaaahoooo wrote:shamsu...........i did not attack u personally........why did u choose to attack saying i was a shariati ?????
and yes shamsu ..............whoever u r .......dont force upon us ur opinions as the only right opinion and yes please dont b attacking .........it is not upto u to decide whther anyones is shariati or not .........and u r haqiqati. Dont forget that u wud b commiting a crime of "shirk" if u make judgements (reserved only for GOD to take )about any other muslim faith........
.....have u read Hazar Imams baitul khayal farman?..........i was infact quoting hazar Imams baitul khayal farman without mentioning it.....Do u know the real batuni meaning of rebirth????........
Here is the BK farman
"Most of u in BK are young ,this is an excellent field.But remmember that though you are young you may have 40,50 inshallah 70 ,80,90 yrs to live,your lives are short.Your lives are very short and when you leave this world nothing goes with you,neither material nor physical,only your soul remains and your soul is eternal as is your life hereafter.Do not forget this."
if u need any more such farmans i can get it for u ......where Imam has very clearly said that life hereafter is just eternal......!!!!!!!!!.
These are not my words that Life hereafter is eternal.....
i think u need to sit in Ibadaat for sure .......
Let me advise u as i feel it is my duty to inform people who are ignorant
I think ONE has to certainly "need" to sit in bandagee. or Ibadaat ........when u sit for the first time ur mind will be full of thoughts as fi hard like a feel like a "STONE"......as u progreess in Ibadaat.........u will have a lot of "REBIRTHs"..........get up between 4 and 5 early morning .........sit in bandagee and eexperience it for yourself and u will remmmeber me..........and then u will understand the real meaning of so many ginans and farmans of MSMS that u are taking a literal meaning of "rebirth"
MSMS has a farman ..........."Jene potane odhakhiyo tene khuda ne odakhiyo"......and in Ibadaat u r doing exactly the same ..........u r trying to find the inner univers or urself ........and when u do that u will understand that u have actually found GOD.....and in this path u will have to shed away a lot of ur old beliefs aand they will be subsituted with new REAL understanding......your old notions will actually die........the old notions will actually be killed by the grace of GOD and he will guide u with his grace to new levels of understanding......
There is no way out other than Ibadaat to know "ONESELF"
and yes farmanbardari.......is NOT IBADAAT
Farmanbardari comes from Love of the Imam and will lead u eventually, force u so much that u will try to know yourself or find a way to know yourself and it will lead u to doing Ibadaat.......that is contemplating or trying to know Oneself.......
read MSMS farman of 29/9/1899 in which quotes Mowlana Rumi as saying that he was a stone first then from stone he became tree then ant then animal then monkey and then Insaan........
Do u really think that a great philosopher like Rumi was a stone? was he talking literally??????!!!!!!!!..........think about it
and yes i will not call u "shariati" for thinking literally .........i will call u "Nadaaan"
...if i can respect your faith..why can't you respect mine and accept it..
we are all at different levels of the faith..
Rumi's statement falls in line with Karma..it makes logical sense to me..
so i accept it..and i have ginans/the quran and the farmans of the imam to back my claim up.. you show me a ginan or farman which contradicts the rebirth topic...
no where has pir said ..we only come thru this life once..
not one but many many pirs have emphasized that we need to get out of the cycle of birth and rebirth..so it's not an isolated incident of one pir saying it...yet not one pir in any ginan has said that you only have one chance at this life and salvation.
And speaking of BUK Farmans..i can quote many farmans.that state the case for reincarnation ..but i don't feel that this public forum is the correct place to do so.
Shams
clarification
This is what I said
But if you have adopted the beliefs of the shariati muslims, even Imams farman will not be enough for you to accept what is a true fact (not belief).
But if you have adopted the beliefs of the shariati muslims, even Imams farman will not be enough for you to accept what is a true fact (not belief).
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
heheheheheh
So who actually is a "Shariati".............one who takes things "literally" or the one who understands things esoterically .............
And if u cant take me as an ismaili who believes esoterically then be it ........u have stopped urself from being open to knowledge which is an aspect not in line with the firmans of the Imam .......
I just feel that u r still a "STONE"..........thats all i feel..........Naadaaan Baalak...........thats all.......Dudh peeta Bacchaaa.......u still have a lot of time to get to eating Akhnee.......
So who actually is a "Shariati".............one who takes things "literally" or the one who understands things esoterically .............
And if u cant take me as an ismaili who believes esoterically then be it ........u have stopped urself from being open to knowledge which is an aspect not in line with the firmans of the Imam .......
I just feel that u r still a "STONE"..........thats all i feel..........Naadaaan Baalak...........thats all.......Dudh peeta Bacchaaa.......u still have a lot of time to get to eating Akhnee.......
-
faisall667
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:57 pm
Shamsu:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And also, yahoooo you don't need to call other people names, especially in front of other people. If you want to do so take it to the pm, but plz don't do it here. Yes it is funny, but u need to know we discuss religious matters and not namecalling. I suggest that Shamsu and you should say sorry to each other and forget about this. Unless of course u both r joking.
Thank you
Plz do so, I would like to learn more.I could go on and on .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And also, yahoooo you don't need to call other people names, especially in front of other people. If you want to do so take it to the pm, but plz don't do it here. Yes it is funny, but u need to know we discuss religious matters and not namecalling. I suggest that Shamsu and you should say sorry to each other and forget about this. Unless of course u both r joking.
Thank you
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
One thing I m sure .............I didnt start it...........
Secondly I m very sure as to who is actually a "shariati"............someone who takes things "literally"..............and does not try to understand the depth of things and the esoteric meaning of quran or ginans or farmans
shariati is not a person who lives within a shariati influenced surroundings ...........he can b a short sighted person living in the west too......
Rumi was talking literally ......... what a statement .......surely this is a statement from a preliminary level only .......it will take time to come to tertiary level.......
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
What you are referring to is Baitul Khayal which is an aspect of Ibaadat just like Dua and Dasond.
Performing Baitul khayal and aquiring knowledge enables you to understand yourself and therefore give you courage to be FarmanBardari which is the purpose of life for an Ismaili. On the other hand performing Baitul Khayal without FarmanBardari will lead to darkness.
Right ....the Ibaadat i was talking about was purely the Meditation or concentration as in baitul Khayal..........
I fully agree with u that farmanbardari is not just worship but it is the BASIC pillars of Ismailism and compulsory for all those who have taken the BAIYAAH........
without farmaanbardari infact there is no meaning to concentrate or meditate ...eg there is some MSMS farman which says if after doing bad deeds (against farmans) if u sit for ibaadat its like doing shaitaans ibaadat.
Farmaaanbardari is like the starter and the operational factor of fruitfull worthy Ibaadat(Meditation0
If there is no dua/dasoond/farmanbardari meditation may give wordly success maybe but will not lead to the "ASAL MAKAAN "
Once again..it is better to have been thought the fool by keeping your mouth shut, than be confirmed the fool by opening it.yaaaahoooo wrote:heheheheheh
So who actually is a "Shariati".............one who takes things "literally" or the one who understands things esoterically .............
And if u cant take me as an ismaili who believes esoterically then be it ........u have stopped urself from being open to knowledge which is an aspect not in line with the firmans of the Imam .......
I just feel that u r still a "STONE"..........thats all i feel..........Naadaaan Baalak...........thats all.......Dudh peeta Bacchaaa.......u still have a lot of time to get to eating Akhnee.......
If you genuinely want to learn..learn how to respect other perspectives..you will learn a lot...
however if you are here just to prove to us that you know something or that you are somewhere in your faith..i for one don't care and am not interested..like most others here..i am here to learn from the others..and maybe share the little that i know..
and speaking of differences between us..MHI has said in numerous farmans recently that islam accepts plurality of faith...for someone that talks the talk of knowing it..be walking the walk and accept others opinions..and respect them...
you remind of the old couple in the Nabi Musa example.
Shams
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
ShamsB wrote: Once again..it is better to have been thought the fool by keeping your mouth shut, than be confirmed the fool by opening it.
If you genuinely want to learn..learn how to respect other perspectives..you will learn a lot...
however if you are here just to prove to us that you know something or that you are somewhere in your faith..i for one don't care and am not interested..like most others here..i am here to learn from the others..and maybe share the little that i know..
and speaking of differences between us..MHI has said in numerous farmans recently that islam accepts plurality of faith...for someone that talks the talk of knowing it..be walking the walk and accept others opinions..and respect them...
you remind of the old couple in the Nabi Musa example.
Shams
this is exactly what I have been telling u all this time.............
keep your mouth shut and dont force upon us yur opinions
otherwise people may consider you a FOOL...
Rumi was talking literally is one of your such examples......
Last edited by yaaaahoooo on Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
Re: Imam SMS
shamsu wrote:There are numerous farmans of Imam SMS where he has mentioned rebirth and explained how it works.
The ginans are replete with references to rebirth. Almost all Pirs have mentioned it.
The Quran has an Ayat which states that Allah will kill us then give us birth again and again kill us or something to that effect.
There have been private instances where MHI has mentioned something about a family member coming back. (I have a friend who was on duty outside the Bunglow of the person I am talking about when this happened
He was responsible for MHI's transportation at the time.
But if you have adopted the beliefs of the shariati muslims, even Imams farman will not be enough for you to accept what is a true fact (not belief).
Dude/dudette sit in bandagi and see for yourself what you were before this birth. Maybe then you will understand the whole concept of Karm and the laws it is made up of.
I could go on and on .
Hinduism is a religion. It doesn't have beliefs. The people that follow it have multitudes of beliefs.
Hope you can find the farmans I was referring to in KIM and BUK khangi farmans of Imam SMS.
Shams
What made you reply ........u could have kept your mouth shut and taken my opinion as a drop in your ocean of knowledge.......isnt it.....?????
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
ShamsB wrote: and speaking of differences between us..MHI has said in numerous farmans recently that islam accepts plurality of faith........
Shams
If this is the case why do u have to pinpoint if somebody elses opinion as being "shariati"..........KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND ACCEPT HIS OPINION in the first place.........
I can show you 2 places where u clearly prove yourself that u have not accepted pluarity of faith as per hazar imams farman...........
So Y shud we take your opinions ...........
Preach before you Practice........
PRACTICE before you PREACH
AND YES dont JUDGE any other interpretation ......ACCEPT PLUARITY
I am happy that you my brother think of me as a fool.....just to let you know..i don't think you merit a response from me on any topic on this forum..and i would beseech other members to do the same.yaaaahoooo wrote:ShamsB wrote: Once again..it is better to have been thought the fool by keeping your mouth shut, than be confirmed the fool by opening it.
If you genuinely want to learn..learn how to respect other perspectives..you will learn a lot...
however if you are here just to prove to us that you know something or that you are somewhere in your faith..i for one don't care and am not interested..like most others here..i am here to learn from the others..and maybe share the little that i know..
and speaking of differences between us..MHI has said in numerous farmans recently that islam accepts plurality of faith...for someone that talks the talk of knowing it..be walking the walk and accept others opinions..and respect them...
you remind of the old couple in the Nabi Musa example.
Shams
this is exactly what I have been telling u all this time.............
keep your mouth shut and dont force upon us yur opinions
otherwise people may consider you a FOOL...
Rumi was talking literally is one of your such examples......
oh and one more thing..for all that you claim to be knowledgeable and well read..ShamsB wrote:I am happy that you my brother think of me as a fool.....just to let you know..i don't think you merit a response from me on any topic on this forum..and i would beseech other members to do the same.yaaaahoooo wrote:ShamsB wrote: Once again..it is better to have been thought the fool by keeping your mouth shut, than be confirmed the fool by opening it.
If you genuinely want to learn..learn how to respect other perspectives..you will learn a lot...
however if you are here just to prove to us that you know something or that you are somewhere in your faith..i for one don't care and am not interested..like most others here..i am here to learn from the others..and maybe share the little that i know..
and speaking of differences between us..MHI has said in numerous farmans recently that islam accepts plurality of faith...for someone that talks the talk of knowing it..be walking the walk and accept others opinions..and respect them...
you remind of the old couple in the Nabi Musa example.
Shams
this is exactly what I have been telling u all this time.............
keep your mouth shut and dont force upon us yur opinions
otherwise people may consider you a FOOL...
Rumi was talking literally is one of your such examples......
I AM SHAMS...not shamshu as you keep on refering to me as.there are 2 of us...
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
One can only reply to a topic if there is anything available in particular with them in their "Top of the Head".....for that particular topic in specific otherwise they will just beat around the bush and quote things whch r 100 years or 1000 yrs old which were specifically inclined to and provided knowledge to those "SET of PEOPLE "in particular for that time ......and not try to understand and get to the root of their meaning using their Intellect for use in the "CURRENT "perspectiveShamsB wrote: just to let you know..i don't think you merit a response from me on any topic on this forum..and i would beseech other members to do the same.
-
faisall667
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:57 pm
Look man calm urelf down, this is getting really annoying. Why don't u share ur knowledge and stop calling people names, teasing and telling them what to do. OKAY. Be mature--i am guessing u r between 25 and 55, this is a mature age. So lets act like that. I would like to call u names but I don't want to degrade myself to ur level. So "pls, pls, pls" stop the nonsense.
Again, I am NOT saying anything against the knowledge that u have put up"
Faisal
Again, I am NOT saying anything against the knowledge that u have put up"
Faisal
what knowledge..all he has done is call us names...call our faith..old..and archaic..no evidence of his own...faisall667 wrote:Look man calm urelf down, this is getting really annoying. Why don't u share ur knowledge and stop calling people names, teasing and telling them what to do. OKAY. Be mature--i am guessing u r between 25 and 55, this is a mature age. So lets act like that. I would like to call u names but I don't want to degrade myself to ur level. So "pls, pls, pls" stop the nonsense.
Again, I am NOT saying anything against the knowledge that u have put up"
Faisal
the only position he has ..is that he has no position...he has yet to put up any material supporting any position that he has taken...and the one position he has taken is one that is very arabist ismaili..which i can't blame him for..he could've been brought up in an Islamic country where parts of our faith had to be modified to enable ismailies to survive.
I am being facetious in this one.
Is it not a divine sign when a person is inspired to call himself a yahoo.
I am impressed at how appropriate it is in this case.
ShamsU
I am impressed at how appropriate it is in this case.
ShamsU
Re: I am being facetious in this one.
Touche!shamsu wrote:Is it not a divine sign when a person is inspired to call himself a yahoo.
I am impressed at how appropriate it is in this case.
ShamsU
ShamSB
I would say that that is the major difference of the practice of BaitulKhayal and other meditational approaches.yaaaahoooo wrote:If there is no dua/dasoond/farmanbardari meditation may give wordly success maybe but will not lead to the "ASAL MAKAAN "
Our worship (Ibaadat) is comprehensive and it's objective is obedience or love of the Mursheed. Baitul Khayal meditation is only a means towards this objective. If one is living a life of Farmanbardri then he is already in paradise. He will get all his marifati experiences in the normal conduct of life.
In my opinion our Imams instituted BUK for Khoja Ismailis only as an additional practice of purification. They have not given BOL to non khoja Ismailis. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah stated on one occasion that his murids in Persia were enjoying Batuni Deedar without him giving them Zaheri deedar let alone giving bol!
On an another occasion, Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah advised Bhagat Kara Ruda to stop practicing BUK because it had served its purpose. This shows that BUK is a means and not an end in itself.
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
kmaherali wrote: Baitul Khayal meditation is only a means towards this objective. If one is living a life of Farmanbardri then he is already in paradise. He will get all his marifati experiences in the normal conduct of life.
In my opinion our Imams instituted BUK for Khoja Ismailis only as an additional practice of purification. They have not given BOL to non khoja Ismailis. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah stated on one occasion that his murids in Persia were enjoying Batuni Deedar without him giving them Zaheri deedar let alone giving bol!
On an another occasion, Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah advised Bhagat Kara Ruda to stop practicing BUK because it had served its purpose. This shows that BUK is a means and not an end in itself.
Sorry maherali........i have to correct you.......Imam has given BOL to Non khoja ismailis. also ....infact its very difficult to get a BOL....u have to really prove your capacity to have it ........
Secondly Kara Ruda was asked to stop his BUK because it had served his purpose..........mark ur words .......he was asked to stop only when he was thought by the Imam that BUK had actually served its purpose........
So actually its a means to find an end !!!! a correct end .......
And as regards to MSMS as saying about his murids in Persia ....if the imam has not give deedar.......there are no farmans ......no bol.......how do u think they r enjoying batuni deedar.........have u thought about it............its generation to generation passing of the habit of meditation ........and they r powerfull in it too..............not like us khojas to need a special link of BOL ......
Once again this is my opinion.........if u like it think about it and take it.......otherwise u r definately free to discard it.........i m not forcing u...
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
Re: I am being facetious in this one.
ShamsB wrote:Touche!shamsu wrote:Is it not a divine sign when a person is inspired to call himself a yahoo.
I am impressed at how appropriate it is in this case.
ShamsU
ShamSB
Its yaaaahoooo..................!!!!!.........not yahoo........
Re: I am being facetious in this one.
yaaaahoooo wrote:ShamsB wrote:Touche!shamsu wrote:Is it not a divine sign when a person is inspired to call himself a yahoo.
I am impressed at how appropriate it is in this case.
ShamsU
ShamSB
Its yaaaahoooo..................!!!!!.........not yahoo........
donkey..ass..same thing right?
we all got the point..
not like ShamsU and ShamsB.
-
yaaaahoooo
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:28 pm
hahahahahahahahahahahaha........
ShamsB wrote:
illinformed arabist shariati ismailies..Shams
Is this really what the Imam wants from us......?????
are these words really in the spirit of frontierless brotherhood.......?
Is the writer setting an example of true farmaanbardaar MOMIN?
Tauba karo allahmeheriyaa.......
REFLECT........INTERNALIZE........AFRICANIZE............ISMAILISM(based on Hinduism)
ShamsB wrote:
illinformed arabist shariati ismailies..Shams
Is this really what the Imam wants from us......?????
are these words really in the spirit of frontierless brotherhood.......?
Is the writer setting an example of true farmaanbardaar MOMIN?
Tauba karo allahmeheriyaa.......
REFLECT........INTERNALIZE........AFRICANIZE............ISMAILISM(based on Hinduism)