Is Quran compilation complete?

[zznoor]

Imam Hakim said in a Sermon given from his balcony in Cairo to 10,000 Egyptians gathered there in Fatimid times: "I am the 10th Manifestation of God". [Gibon: "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire"]

He was called by some historian "a mad man" because of this declaration. There were no Hindus there, they were 10,000 Muslims, perhaps part of it Ismailis.

Some people did not understand anything to it Centuries ago and some still do not understand.

Then Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah declared [Mumbai, 31 Jan 1926) :
“Our religion is evidenced by ancient history. It is just as it was at the time of Imam Hakim-bi-Amrillah and Imam Ala-Zikrihis-Salam.”

4 points

Avatars ( Manifastation ) of god is not belief of majority of Shia and Sunni Muslims.

This thread is about "is Quran complete or not". Please follow Admin's advice and discuss manifestation, muta etc. in other threads.

Despite many posts suggesting Tahrif of Quran, no hard evidence was submitted, like delegated Ayas, words or additional chapters of Muslim Holy Book.

I hope we will inshah Allah live long enough to read delation or addition of Quran by Bolta Qurans.

[agakhani]

Avatars ( Manifastation ) of god is not belief of majority of Shia and Sunni Muslims.

That is right! not only just manifestation but many other things they also not belief even though it is quoted in quran clearly for a example about Imamat which will continue till the day of judgement but they are stuck with only five imamas, like rebirth (reincarnation of souls) however it is quoted 21 times in Quran but Sunny brothers not believe in rebirth and so on sister....

[agakhani]

Like I said, any authentic reference prior to Maulana Sultan Mohammad Shah, is really appreciated.

Yes, in Quran lots of Scholars believes that 10 nights which described in Quran is represent of 10 incarnations of god . to believe this or not it is up to you but I,believe that is true as per my own translation of that particular ayas.

Do you believe that our ginans are not authentic!!!!???? if you beleive it is authentic then what other proof you need before SMS,our ginans are 1000 years old !!?

[Admin]

Imam Muhamad al Baqir which is also recognised by the Ithna Ashari Shias has declared [In his compilation titled Ummul Kitab] that whatever was on Imamat in the Quran has been removed from the book called Quran today and large parts are missing. From which Bolto Quran do you need your sources? Is Imam Baqir of Ismailis different of Imam Baqir of Ithnashris?

[Trueismaili786]

to believe this or not it is up to you but I,believe that is true as per my own translation of that particular ayas.

Who are you? why should others have to believe you and ignore what other Shia and Sunny Muffasir interpreted about that 10 nights Allah mentioned in Holy Quran? are you an Al-waez? any scholar, any translator? if not then keep your mouth shut.

Let them believe what they think about Quran, let them believe their own interpretations of quran , Tum Bichne taang kyo adate ho? you need to mind your own business. I hope in future you will not force others to believe whatever you think is right, OK.

But for one thing I should praise you that you have good knowledge in almost every subjects in comparisons with other dudes in this forum, they are just focus only on one subject only Holy Quran like S.V. ZZNoor, a_27826 and that so called Nuseri only talk about H.Ali! and Admin, this guy has knowledge but chhodo yaar, but let me finish it when I am talking about everybody in this forum then why not him? he needs to control his temper and stop to delete anybody posts.

[agakhani]

TrueIsmaili brother,
This forum is open forum you can write what you think is right to you as long as you do not violate this forum policies but to believe or not to believe is up to you and readers.
There are too many threads in this website which are very informative for some and it iz also true that some posts are may not good for some.
About your criticism I think you should not judge any one else, all participants in this forum are knowledgeable persons and be honest with you I have learned a lot from them and still learning from them each day so, Thanks for your comments but let me tell you this I am still a student in comparison with admin, Shamsb, brother Shiraz,KMaherali and Munir.
Two cents advise, please do not use harsh language in this forum if you do this it will be a good comments for me.

[a_27826]

Imam Hakim said in a Sermon given from his balcony in Cairo to 10,000 Egyptians gathered there in Fatimid times: "I am the 10th Manifestation of God". [Gibon: "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire"]

He was called by some historian "a mad man" because of this declaration. There were no Hindus there, they were 10,000 Muslims, perhaps part of it Ismailis.

Some people did not understand anything to it Centuries ago and some still do not understand.

Then Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah declared [Mumbai, 31 Jan 1926) :
“Our religion is evidenced by ancient history. It is just as it was at the time of Imam Hakim-bi-Amrillah and Imam Ala-Zikrihis-Salam.”

4 points

Avatars ( Manifastation ) of god is not belief of majority of Shia and Sunni Muslims.

This thread is about "is Quran complete or not". Please follow Admin's advice and discuss manifestation, muta etc. in other threads.

Despite many posts suggesting Tahrif of Quran, no hard evidence was submitted, like delegated Ayas, words or additional chapters of Muslim Holy Book.

I hope we will inshah Allah live long enough to read delation or addition of Quran by Bolta Qurans.

I think, there should be no doubt that the “Uthmanic Mus’haf” do contain God’s words recitated by the Prophet.

Now to the topic of the thread “Is Quran complete?”

First of all, we have to define what is Quran?

Is it a recitation of God’s words by the Prophet?

Or is it a book compilled by humans (after the demise of the Prophet) containing recitations of God’s words by the Prophet?

Or what else could it be?

Does Quran mean Book?

Let’s take an example of last sentence of 036:012 “And we have vested everything in Manifest Imam”.

The reason why Imam is translated as “book” by notable translators is that they are trying to logically connect the last sentence of the ayat (And we have vested everything in Manifest Imam) with the previous sentence (And we write what they send before and their footprints that they left behind)

But the literal translation in 036:012 (Imam=Book) is wrong.

It is considered as right because the wrong translation fits the previous sentence logically (And we write what they send before and their footprints that they left behind).

The translators think since God says he is writing, then it must mean that all the writing is in a book. The translators reduce God to a double entry book-keeper.

"The Imam" in 036:012, therefore, is the Imamat and is symbolised in every age by the person of Imam al-Zamaan.

Now back to Quran:

Quran (recitations by the Prophet) describes itself as Al-Kitab many times despite the compilation of recitations was not in a book form.

For example 011:017 and 046:012 allude to book as the person in connection with Musa.

011:017 And what of him who stands upon a clear sign from his Lord, and a witness from Him recites it, and before him is the Book of Moses for an example and a mercy?

046:012 Yet before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a Book confirming, in Arabic tongue, to warn the evildoers, and good tidings to the good-doers.

So, in conclution, yes, Quran is complete in form of Imam of the Time.

[zznoor]

Imam Muhamad al Baqir which is also recognised by the Ithna Ashari Shias has declared [In his compilation titled Ummul Kitab] that whatever was on Imamat in the Quran has been removed from the book called Quran today and large parts are missing. From which Bolto Quran do you need your sources? Is Imam Baqir of Ismailis different of Imam Baqir of Ithnashris?

Quote from al-Islam.org
Titled:

Belief of Shia in the Completeness of Quran

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

"Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn). And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh Saduq, English version, p77.


It should be noted that Shaykh Saduq (RA) is the greatest scholar of Hadith among the Imami Shia and was given the name of Shaykh al-Muhaddithin (i.e., the most eminent of the scholars of Hadith). And since he wrote the above in a book with the name of "The beliefs of the Imami Shia," it is quite impossible that there could be any authentic Hadith in contrary to it. It is noteworthy that Shaykh Saduq lived at the time of minor occultation of Imam Mahdi (AS) and he was one of the earliest Shia scholars. He had the honor that he was born with the prayer of Imam Mahdi (AS).

Do you wonder why Sh. Saduk RhA missed hadith from Imam Jafar!

[zznoor]

So, in conclution, yes, Quran is complete in form of Imam of the Time.

So logically Imam of Time should write down or dictate complete Quran and put the end to this 1400 year long arguments.

Inshah Allah

[zznoor]

with other dudes in this forum, they are just focus only on one subject only Holy Quran like S.V. ZZNoor, a_27826

Title of this thread is "Is Quran complete"
Therefor I am sticking with subject

[zznoor]

Let’s take an example of last sentence of 036:012 “And we have vested everything in Manifest Imam”.

The reason why Imam is translated as “book” by notable translators is that they are trying to logically connect the last sentence of the ayat (And we have vested everything in Manifest Imam) with the previous sentence (And we write what they send before and their footprints that they left behind)

But the literal translation in 036:012 (Imam=Book) is wrong.

So word by word translation of these sites would be wrong

http://www.allahsquran.com/learn/#s36d7q1t0p1

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp

[nuseri]

lost my laptop.cant type well fm fone.
the best translator in quran may be at 85% perfection.
they r there to make money on tranalated copy sales,nothing more.
BTW.the blgr true ismli786 is second id of agakhani,very closly observe the lng n vocblry.he used it to prse himslf
last year also vri cleverly.
as humantyy is decreed to kno little of quran.that also an inprper one.
Admin should delete d whole topic all togather.it is crtng
iill feelings n mostly
y 90% useless blog on it.
l feel 2782 has grtè grasp on in at zahiri level .if he good knolege or arabic,he mst try to translation of itm

[a_27826]

Let’s take an example of last sentence of 036:012 “And we have vested everything in Manifest Imam”.

The reason why Imam is translated as “book” by notable translators is that they are trying to logically connect the last sentence of the ayat (And we have vested everything in Manifest Imam) with the previous sentence (And we write what they send before and their footprints that they left behind)

But the literal translation in 036:012 (Imam=Book) is wrong.

So word by word translation of these sites would be wrong

http://www.allahsquran.com/learn/#s36d7q1t0p1

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp

Yes, the wrong translation of Imam because correct translation doesn’t make sense to the translators.

If God wanted to say Manifest Book, then why not “kitabun Mubeenun” instead of “Imamin Mubeenin”

The translators can’t believe God can vest everything in Person, so Imam here must mean Book, especially when God talks about writing in the previous sentence.

[ShamsB]

So, in conclution, yes, Quran is complete in form of Imam of the Time.

So logically Imam of Time should write down or dictate complete Quran and put the end to this 1400 year long arguments.

Inshah Allah

Yeah - and if he did that - you would be the first one to show up with your protest banners and pitchfork....

The problem is - you aren't willing to accept what the Imam has
The Imam of the Time has stated and this is in Kalame-Imam-e-Mubeen; but once again you will not read it or accept it.

The Quran is in the Ginans. The words of the Imam.."the pirs have given you the quran in your language"..

You'll keep going back to this...till kingdom come.....


Shams

[a_27826]

So, in conclution, yes, Quran is complete in form of Imam of the Time.

So logically Imam of Time should write down or dictate complete Quran and put the end to this 1400 year long arguments.

Inshah Allah

Quran was not in the form of physical book during the lifetime of the Prophet.

Muslims during the Prophet's time DID NOT have Utmanic mus'haf wrapped up in red cloth putted up in a prominent position in their houses above anything else then occasionally kiss it and recite from it like chanting a mantra.

[ShamsB]

Imam Hakim said in a Sermon given from his balcony in Cairo to 10,000 Egyptians gathered there in Fatimid times: "I am the 10th Manifestation of God". [Gibon: "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire"]

He was called by some historian "a mad man" because of this declaration. There were no Hindus there, they were 10,000 Muslims, perhaps part of it Ismailis.

Some people did not understand anything to it Centuries ago and some still do not understand.

Then Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah declared [Mumbai, 31 Jan 1926) :
“Our religion is evidenced by ancient history. It is just as it was at the time of Imam Hakim-bi-Amrillah and Imam Ala-Zikrihis-Salam.”

4 points

Avatars ( Manifastation ) of god is not belief of majority of Shia and Sunni Muslims.

This thread is about "is Quran complete or not". Please follow Admin's advice and discuss manifestation, muta etc. in other threads.

Despite many posts suggesting Tahrif of Quran, no hard evidence was submitted, like delegated Ayas, words or additional chapters of Muslim Holy Book.

I hope we will inshah Allah live long enough to read delation or addition of Quran by Bolta Qurans.

Actually Avatars are mentioned in the Quran - specifically the number 10 - now it's up to the interpreter..

See ZZnoor - here is where i take your argument and beat you over the head with it again...

In suratul Fajr - Allah talks about the 10 nights - HE SWEARS by the 10 nights...want me to go further??
And no - these aren't the last 10 nights of Ramadhan that He's talking about..
In Arabic tradition - Day begins at 6pm - the calendar changes at 6 pm - the night is beginning of the day - once you figure that you - you'll see why Allah talks about the notion of the Avatars...


Please get your head straightened out.
Seriously - you will not win any converts here.

You asked about the Imam dictating or putting the Quran on paper - and we've told you - why be redundant - look at our Ginans - as per the Imam that is the Quran. (Kalame - Imame-Mubeen) somehow you don't want to do that - you want it on your terms..sorry ..faith is based on conviction..not convenience.

Also keep in mind - I have a lot more Quranic verses to make my arguments - I am presenting proof to you - using your terms - but somehow you aren't open to learning?

Are you here to learn?



Shams

[zznoor]

ShamsB

Actually Avatars are mentioned in the Quran - specifically the number 10 - now it's up to the interpreter..

See ZZnoor - here is where i take your argument and beat you over the head with it again...

In suratul Fajr - Allah talks about the 10 nights - HE SWEARS by the 10 nights...want me to go further??
And no - these aren't the last 10 nights of Ramadhan that He's talking about..
In Arabic tradition - Day begins at 6pm - the calendar changes at 6 pm - the night is beginning of the day - once you figure that you - you'll see why Allah talks about the notion of the Avatars...

I am not into interpretation of Quran. If there were 10 Avatars, it would be clearly mentioned.

[zznoor]

Quran was not in the form of physical book during the lifetime of the Prophet.

Muslims during the Prophet's time DID NOT have Utmanic mus'haf wrapped up in red cloth putted up in a prominent position in their houses above anything else then occasionally kiss it and recite from it like chanting a mantra.

Read
The QUR`AN - How it was Revealed and Compiled
By Dr. Mohammad Shafi

It is on net

[zznoor]

So, in conclution, yes, Quran is complete in form of Imam of the Time.

So logically Imam of Time should write down or dictate complete Quran and put the end to this 1400 year long arguments.

Inshah Allah

Yeah - and if he did that - you would be the first one to show up with your protest banners and pitchfork....
2 things
For Imam: Jab Pyar kiya to darna kya
For Murids: naachana nahi to Angan tedha

The problem is - you aren't willing to accept what the Imam has
The Imam of the Time has stated and this is in Kalame-Imam-e-Mubeen; but once again you will not read it or accept it.
little scninaro
Murids: imam can fly without any machines
How do you know, have you seen it?
Murid: he said it, he even wrote in his book.
Why don't you ask him to show it.
Aviation Authority will find out and ground him.


The Quran is in the Ginans. The words of the Imam.."the pirs have given you the quran in your language"..
how about in Gujarati, Urdu, Swahali etc. etc.

You'll keep going back to this...till kingdom come.....
kingdom has not come for last 1400 years, and will never come. Dead subject
Shams

[nuseri]

to zzoor Quran ki faltu mahabharat chaltee rahengi.
aap do chotee jawab ka chota answer de do

[agakhani]

I am not into interpretation of Quran. If there were 10 Avatars, it would be clearly mentioned.

There are too many ayas in Quran which are not clearly mentioned by Allah, so, basically we have to guess, it is possible that my guess is different than you, your guess or interpretation may be different than Mr. Shams and Shams interpretation may be different than Yusuf Ali or Pickthol. and that is why Quran has too many translation but most translator have different opinions and many cases they are not tally with each others.
I personally think that the same way Shams and other Ismaili scholars believe that those 10 night which are reveled in Ayas Suratul Fajr defiantly referring about 10 Avatars.

[ShamsB]

So logically Imam of Time should write down or dictate complete Quran and put the end to this 1400 year long arguments.

Inshah Allah

Yeah - and if he did that - you would be the first one to show up with your protest banners and pitchfork....
2 things
For Imam: Jab Pyar kiya to darna kya
For Murids: naachana nahi to Angan tedha

The problem is - you aren't willing to accept what the Imam has
The Imam of the Time has stated and this is in Kalame-Imam-e-Mubeen; but once again you will not read it or accept it.
little scninaro
Murids: imam can fly without any machines
How do you know, have you seen it?
Murid: he said it, he even wrote in his book.
Why don't you ask him to show it.
Aviation Authority will find out and ground him.


The Quran is in the Ginans. The words of the Imam.."the pirs have given you the quran in your language"..
how about in Gujarati, Urdu, Swahali etc. etc.

You'll keep going back to this...till kingdom come.....
kingdom has not come for last 1400 years, and will never come. Dead subject
Shams

See the problem here is - I have a PhD in this subject; you don't.

Scholarly research has proved that the Quran as is - has been steady for 1400 years - however it is not the Quran that was revealed to the Prophet.

I think we've proved this a number of times - using Sunni Historians to prove the point - however this is something you refuse to believe.

To me - the Imam has already told us where to look for the Quran - yet you want him to send you a personal email and beg for your approval - sorry.

I think you need to cede that you will not win this argument because you are not here to seek knowledge or learn - but to fight your own psychological insecurities...you will not do that here...

In regards to languages - the Pirs wrote the ginans in 24 different languages...covers most Indian languages; and as for Swahili..insha allah - when the time is right. FYI we do have a number of Swahili speaking Ismailies that have translated ginans into swahili for ease of understanding....just as you cannot recite the Quran in another language, Ginans are sacrosanct.
Allah sent the Quran in Arabic - are you telling me that Islam is restricted to Arabs? or that it's bound by the Arabic culture? Get your head out of your ass...Islam is a universal faith.

Also in this case you make another point for us; the notion of needed an interpretation based on time; thus we have the Imam-e-Mubeen; the Imam of the Age and Time.

Go watch the last interview of the Imam on NDTV; and listen to what he says about what makes a muslim; nothing to do with the Quran or Shariat; but just the Shahadah; how open and liberating ...
but oh I guess that threatens your understanding because you like restrictive..

Tell me zznoor do you believe in FGM? or in dressing women from head to toe? or that women are not equal to men? and they are property?
When are you going to start killing us? because according to the Quran we are infidels? the unbelievers now?

Once again - the scholars - even the SUNNI ones have admitted that the complete Quran wasn't compiled.
Tabari was amongst many Sunni Scholars who recorded that the compilation was fraught with errors and was politically motivated by Uthman, however you don't want to see that your own nose is cut; yet trying to point to us.
There are 12 other SUNNI scholars who have recorded that Hazrat Ali presented a chronologically compiled complete Quran which was rejected by Uthman because it contained Surahs referring openly to Imamah.
For reference - read Tabari - he's using these other sources to corroborate his version.
Abu Yusuf - who was one of the key students of Hanafi - and the Chief Judge during the reign of Abbasid Caliph Abu Mansur has also recorded a lot of this in his writings - but I guess you haven't read that have been talibanized or arabicized.
If you're serious - go read these sources - versus listen to the local ulema at the corner sunni masjid - you will find that when you talk to true SCHOLARS of Islam - regardless of Sunni or Shia - that have done that research - you'll get to learn a lot.

That is if you're open to learning.

once again - "To you yours, to me mine"

Sham

[a_27826]

Quran was not in the form of physical book during the lifetime of the Prophet.

Muslims during the Prophet's time DID NOT have Utmanic mus'haf wrapped up in red cloth putted up in a prominent position in their houses above anything else then occasionally kiss it and recite from it like chanting a mantra.

Read
The QUR`AN - How it was Revealed and Compiled
By Dr. Mohammad Shafi

It is on net

Why don't you tell us in this thread, how Quran was Revealed and Compiled according to your understanding or Mohd Shafi's understanding ? rather than advising us all to leave this forum and go to your Mohd Shafi.

Are you afraid of something ?

You don't have something from your own knowledge to share something ?

We all are here to share knowledge and learn from each other.

[a_27826]

ShamsB

Actually Avatars are mentioned in the Quran - specifically the number 10 - now it's up to the interpreter..

See ZZnoor - here is where i take your argument and beat you over the head with it again...

In suratul Fajr - Allah talks about the 10 nights - HE SWEARS by the 10 nights...want me to go further??
And no - these aren't the last 10 nights of Ramadhan that He's talking about..
In Arabic tradition - Day begins at 6pm - the calendar changes at 6 pm - the night is beginning of the day - once you figure that you - you'll see why Allah talks about the notion of the Avatars...

I am not into interpretation of Quran. If there were 10 Avatars, it would be clearly mentioned.

You have to refer to

003:007 It is He who sent down upon you the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous.

Spiritual matters cannot be be expressed in clear human language.

[ShamsB]

ShamsB

Actually Avatars are mentioned in the Quran - specifically the number 10 - now it's up to the interpreter..

See ZZnoor - here is where i take your argument and beat you over the head with it again...

In suratul Fajr - Allah talks about the 10 nights - HE SWEARS by the 10 nights...want me to go further??
And no - these aren't the last 10 nights of Ramadhan that He's talking about..
In Arabic tradition - Day begins at 6pm - the calendar changes at 6 pm - the night is beginning of the day - once you figure that you - you'll see why Allah talks about the notion of the Avatars...

I am not into interpretation of Quran. If there were 10 Avatars, it would be clearly mentioned.

Just as Imam-e-Mubeen is mentioned clearly...
Yet - you still refuse...

Like I said - if by your account - my faith is wrong - then so be it...

Why are you so intent on trying to prove us wrong?..once again - are you trying to convince yourself that you are right?
Sour grapes maybe?

Shams

[ShamsB]

ShamsB

Actually Avatars are mentioned in the Quran - specifically the number 10 - now it's up to the interpreter..

See ZZnoor - here is where i take your argument and beat you over the head with it again...

In suratul Fajr - Allah talks about the 10 nights - HE SWEARS by the 10 nights...want me to go further??
And no - these aren't the last 10 nights of Ramadhan that He's talking about..
In Arabic tradition - Day begins at 6pm - the calendar changes at 6 pm - the night is beginning of the day - once you figure that you - you'll see why Allah talks about the notion of the Avatars...

I am not into interpretation of Quran. If there were 10 Avatars, it would be clearly mentioned.

You have to refer to

003:007 It is He who sent down upon you the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous.

Spiritual matters cannot be be expressed in clear human language.

I don't think that zznoor cares what Allah actually said in the Quran.
There is enforcement on her part of the Quran being the COMPLETE message as it stands today - however adherence and acceptance of that message is selective to her needs; we've pointed out a number of suras that validate our point - but she's choosing to neglect them; because they defeat her purpose or now is resorting to that she doesn't translate the quran - now you see why the Pirs had to give us the Quran in our language..and why the Imam had to tell us to go read those?

Seems like us apostates know more about the Quran and follow it better than you do zznoor? doesn't it?

I am sure it must get a little under your skin no?

zznoor wants to google and search for instant coffee type answers - without actually validating if the author is someone that is a scholar and has research and references to back up their hypothesis; or is just someone that's got a view point and is using conjecture to brainwash the masses...
unfortunately for her; we do have people that have the research credentials and that have the references that will not take this crap anymore.
Like I've stated before - you wanted references/resources - SUNNI sources have been quoted in the various postings; how about you go to these sources and do some of your own learning and your own reading; and use your brains versus reading something that's been thrown on the internet without even bothering to verify it.

There are a number of flaws in your argument - you have not provided any historical reference that refutes tabari or any of the other sources we've place forth.

Anytime we've put forth a verse of the quran that was beyond your shallow understanding - you've come back with garbage...

Want to learn or engage in a debate - come with concrete information; not with sunni jibberjabber - we can take that and beat you on the head with it - as already done so on numerous occasions..

you don't like ismailism - no problems - go be happy in your newfound faith and let us be in ours...

Sura Kafiroon again? or I think you got it by now.

To you yours - to me mine.

Shams

[agakhani]

You can find below idiom in many languages but let me put it here in Gujarati language.
ADHURO GHADO CHHALKAY GHANO
In English you can say, The person who has half knowledge always make big noise to hide their half knowledge and try to show that he knows everything but other peoples easily find out that he/she is like a jug with half full of water.
You know Shams whom do I talking about!! HALF KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS AND THESE KIND PERSONS ALWAYS MAKE BIG NOISE TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE RIGHT WITH THEIR HALF KNOWLEDGE! Even thogh they defeted many times, but they are still barking like adog again and again,these persons are same like half filled jug which make big noise.

[shiraz.virani]

sister zznoor

On page 26th I have copy/pasted few hadiths from sunni sources stating that much of the quran is lost or all we got is just a little portion of the quran...

Sahih muslim [Book of salat]

Reference: Sahih Muslim 1050
In-book referenc: Book 12, Hadith 156
USC-MSA web (English) reference: Book 5, Hadith 2286

Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ashari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number.

They recited the Qur'an and he said:

You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Barat. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it:" If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust." And we used so recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it:" Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise" (lxi 2.) and" that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection" (xvii. 13).

The more I indulge in this topic the more I feel that the book quran that we have is what REMAINED of it...We are reciting what is left over for much has been lost in the past.

[zznoor]

ShamsB

Get your head out of your ass...

That is not a way gentleman talks. Specially Not one with PhD.
I want to learn and give my POV.
End of give and take with you.
Salaam

[ShamsB]

ShamsB

Get your head out of your ass...

That is not a way gentleman talks. Specially Not one with PhD.
I want to learn and give my POV.
End of give and take with you.
Salaam

You deal with people the way they deal with you.

You don't beat your head against a wall - you take a hammer to it.

You really don't want to learn - because if you did - you'd take the scholarly research and references provided and follow up on them - versus keep coming back to us with the SAME GARBAGE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

The question was - is the QURAN COMPLETE?

We have MUSLIM SOURCES - both SUNNI and SHIA - mostly SUNNI that have been pointed out to you - that all state that there were VERSES omitted in the compilation of the QURAN - you don't even want to bother to use the research but keep going to an evangelist muslim site and posting crap from there.

You want to learn - get your head out of your ass - and research from the sources...

Like i said - you don't want to do that

go be happy in your ignorance and let me bask in my ignorance..

seriously - if I am wrong and the afterlife is filled with fundamentalists like you - i'll be more than happy that I didn't follow the right path.

Shams