Pakistan in difficulties

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:26 pm

Ya Ali Madad.

Pakistan is suffering from huge problems now a days. I had heard that Pakistan will suffer such problems which will put its economy in the most poorest country of the world, hence it is almost done. Pakistan is the 4th poorest country of the world according to the survey. Our beloved Maula Sultan Mohammad Shah (SA) said that One day Karachi will turn in to Paris.

My question is how Pakistan's economy will improve as we can see there is no hope left for the people of Pakistan. I want an answer in a religious way. I want to say sorry to admin of this site, as i am not willing to share political situations of Pakistan but it is important in my point of view how our religion can interpret it..??

Post by **Admin** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:59 pm

Verily Allah will not change the situation of Pakistan unless its people themselves change it.

How will they change it? First they must change themselves.

Then only their prayers will be answered by Allah.

Otherwise I do not see any solution to their problems. Even if Allah himself come to help the country, they will first ask for bribe to allow him to help. And maybe Allah came to help and maybe they really asked him for 10% bribe, who knows.

When the Japanese proposed to Kenya to build their roads free of charge, the transport minister asked them 10% of the total expense as bribe. They refused and proposed the same to Tanzania and Tanzania said an unconditional yes. Today Tanzania has superb roads. Gift from the Japanese Government.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:16 pm

My question is how Pakistan's economy will improve as we can see there is no hope left for the people of Pakistan. I want an answer in a religious way. I want to say sorry to admin of this site, as i am not willing to share political situations of Pakistan but it is important in my point of view how our religion can interpret it..??

You said something about imam sultan mohd shah's prediction...brother he is not allah[swt]

I predicted some 8 years ago that I would marry bipasha basu.....Fortunately, it did not happen and Im thankful that it did not because Im blessed with a loving wife and son

If you remember it was this same sultan mohd shah who insisted all paki's to have arabic as their national language....Did anyone listened ?? No !!!

You want religious interpretation well their isnt any because whatever is happening in 10%istan is CAUSED by this religious divide !!

Wanna get back on track ?? Stop mixing religion with politics !!!!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:20 am

My question is how Pakistan's economy will improve as we can see there is no hope left for the people of Pakistan. I

There is a idiom in Hindi and in Urdu.
कई लाखो निराशाओ में एक अमर आशा छुपी हुई होती है.

کی لاکھو ناامیدو مے ایک امید چھپی ہی ہوتی ہے.

Keep faith in what SMS told about Pakistan, and keep faith whatever our pirs had predicted about "Zampudwip" and Pakistan is a part of zampudwip, so Pakistan has to be improve, if not now then may be 5-10 years latter but it has to be improve. Pakistan will not impove only economically but it will improve almost in every field. The times are coming for India, Pakistan and other third world countries.

Keep in mind that SMS had played big roll to makes Pakistan as a separate Isalmaic nation, he worked hard for that, therefore I think it will not dissipate not now or not in even future, Pakistan has to play big roll during the time "Zahurat" and our ginans are fulls with that ,Pirs won't be wrong.

There is only one religious way we can do for Pakistan's improvement and it is prayer; even though I am not Paki but on and off I pray for Ismailis from Pakistan and Zampudwip because I am seeing a bright and gorgeous future of Pakistan.

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:13 pm

Admin,

Thank you for your wonderful answer. I accept that people of Pakistan are responsible for every situation which Pakistan is facing right now.

Shiraz,

My brother, yes i said about Sultan Mohammad Shah (S.A) because i have complete faith in his every single word. I am damn sure it will happen one day, how it will happen i don't have any idea.
Sorry brother you didn't understand my question as whole. Prediction of Sultan Mohammad Shah means it will happen because i have faith in him.
I asked how we can interpret situation of Pakistan by our religion? Brother again you didn't get me here. I am not mixing politics with our religion as i mentioned before i am not posting here for creating political atmosphere. As far as interpretation is concern my brother, you can see what Agakhani has written. I was willing to hear such words.

Aga Khani,

I agree with you my brother. I have complete faith in Maula that one day Pakistan will change and it will be one of the most powerful country of the world. Thanks for your answer brother.

At last but not the least I am definitely sure that this year 2012 there will be changes take place in Pakistan which will be the beginning of the new era and it will make history.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:31 pm

MHI has great faith in the destiny of Pakistan as per quote below from one of his speeches.

"You all know that My grandfather was one of the founders of Pakistan. He, His associates and His co-workers struggled mightily for the establishment of this great country. He always had the profoundest faith in the destiny of Pakistan. These views and that faith are Mine. This country is in My heart, for as you all know My beloved Grandfather was born here"

http://www.ismaili.net/speech/s570804.html

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:58 pm

Ameen. I was looking for this Farman of MHI. Thanks Kmaherali. I am sure it will happen soon. Pakistan is a great country and one day it will be among super power of the world.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:45 am

Thank you for your wonderful answer. I accept that people of Pakistan are responsible for every situation which Pakistan is facing right now.

Not only people of Pakistan needs to blame but the more blames goes to the corrupted leaders of Pakistan.

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:27 pm

My bro Aga Khani,

You are absolutely right. I am saying that people are responsible for present situation of Pakistan because they are not taking action against these corrupt leaders. People should come out on roads and defend their rights which they are not getting since last couple of years.
Allah Subhanawatallah says,
I never change situation of those people who don't change themselves.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:39 pm

My bro Aga Khani,

You are absolutely right. I am saying that people are responsible for present situation of Pakistan because they are not taking action against these corrupt leaders. People should come out on roads and defend their rights which they are not getting since last couple of years.
Allah Subhanawatallah says,
I never change situation of those people who don't change themselves.

I think the winds are changing....There is this revolution that is going on in pakistan which is started by Imran Khan...If people aren't too dumb they would realise that this guy is for the people and not some special interest.

I hope he gets elected.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:33 am

I hope he gets elected.

I doubt though because he married a Christian lady from UK and most orthodox peoples from Pakistan believe that it is against the Sahariya to marry Christian, so I don't think these peoples will not vote for him.

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:36 pm

Shiraz.Virani

I think the winds are changing....There is this revolution that is going on in pakistan which is started by Imran Khan...If people aren't too dumb they would realise that this guy is for the people and not some special interest.

I hope he gets elected.

My friend as far as i know everything has been fixed. It has been decided that whose government will come in next election. I want Imran khan too to get elected in coming elections.

agakhani

I doubt though because he married a Christian lady from UK and most orthodox peoples from Pakistan believe that it is against the Sahariya to marry Christian, so I don't think these peoples will not vote for him

My bro, it doesn't matter that Imran has married to a Christian Lady. Imran has full support of people of Pakistan. There hasn't fair election taken place ever in this country. I pray that may Imran khan come as i believe that he is the only hope for better future of Pakistan.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:02 pm

goldfaizi wrote:Ya Ali Madad.

Pakistan is suffering from huge problems now a days. I had heard that Pakistan will suffer such problems which will put its economy in the most poorest country of the world, hence it is almost done. Pakistan is the 4th poorest country of the world according to the survey. Our beloved Maula Sultan Mohammad Shah (SA) said that One day Karachi will turn in to Paris.

My question is how Pakistan's economy will improve as we can see there is no hope left for the people of Pakistan. I want an answer in a religious way. I want to say sorry to admin of this site, as i am not willing to share political situations of Pakistan but it is important in my point of view how our religion can interpret it..??

When did Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah say that Pakistan will become Paris? What is the source of this information? Do you have any reference for it?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:46 am

goldfaizi wrote:Shiraz.Virani

I think the winds are changing....There is this revolution that is going on in pakistan which is started by Imran Khan...If people aren't too dumb they would realise that this guy is for the people and not some special interest.

I hope he gets elected.
My friend as far as i know everything has been fixed. It has been decided that whose government will come in next election. I want Imran khan too to get elected in coming elections.

agakhani

I doubt though because he married a Christian lady from UK and most orthodox peoples from Pakistan believe that it is against the Sahariya to marry Christian, so I don't think these peoples will not vote for him
My bro, it doesn't matter that Imran has married to a Christian Lady. Imran has full support of people of Pakistan. There hasn't fair election taken place ever in this country. I pray that may Imran khan come as i believe that he is the only hope for better future of Pakistan.

Muslim man marrying Christian or Jew is not an issue. Muslims in general (Sunnis and Shia) believe that Muslim Man can marry Ahle-Kitab (Christian or Jew).

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:33 am

Muslim man marrying Christian or Jew is not an issue. Muslims in general (Sunnis and Shia) believe that Muslim Man can marry Ahle-Kitab (Christian or Jew).

That is absolutely right but unfortunately Pakistani avaam doesn't know this facts.

Imran has full support of people of Pakistan. There hasn't fair election taken place ever in this country. I pray that may Imran khan come as i believe that he is the only hope for better future of Pakistan.

Good to know that Imran khan has good supports from the people of Pakistan, I personally believe that he will be a good leader for Pakistan if he elected. and that is also absolutely right that in Pakistan fair election never taken place in history of Pakistan, so keep our fingers crossed and hope this time it will fair election without any cheating and polling and vote counting and without any riots among people.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:15 pm

You are right in manner that there is ignorance and because of ignorance there is extremism.
However, I certainly do not think one man in democratic setup can certainly change destiny of people especially when countless problems and obstacles are there both from inside the country as well as from outside. There are many challenges to deal with. Democracy has become dirty game in Pakistan. Musharaf in his time had done remarkable work for the Pakistanis. In the most critical time, he dealt will all challenges very courageously. From economic point of view also, there was progress (and it has always happened in military regime in Pakistan) If people would had supported him, then Pakistan would never faced atleast the problems which are being faced now. When some one is doing good work, others can't tolerate. I will stop my self here, no more comments from me on politics of Pakistan as every one has different views.

As far as prediction of Imam is concerned there is not Such Farman in either KIM volume 1 or 2. I have not come across any such speech, where this prediction is mentioned. I dont think Imam has made this prediction. But if He has said this than I would like to know the complete reference. I would like to see in what context Imam has said and what actually was said by him.

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:06 pm

Star Munir:

As far as prediction of Imam is concerned there is not Such Farman in either KIM volume 1 or 2. I have not come across any such speech, where this prediction is mentioned. I dont think Imam has made this prediction. But if He has said this than I would like to know the complete reference. I would like to see in what context Imam has said and what actually was said by him.

Brother i agree with you there isn't farman of Maula Sultan Mohammad Shah about such prediction. I had heard from my grand parents regarding such predicition. I asked them for reference but i didn't find it. I believe in reference as well. Our faith teaches that we should use our mind and practice our faith. I hope Pakistan's economy will get well soon and there will be peace.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:34 pm

Brother i agree with you there isn't farman of Maula Sultan Mohammad Shah about such prediction.

Don't worry Goldfaizi ,
I heard same story from my parents as well, to me Its doesn't matter whether it is published farmans or not because it is possible that this farmans may have not published yet! as many farmans of Sultan Mohammad shah has been never published till today, let me give you one quick example for that many farmans of Sultan Mohammad Shah for the year 1903 during his Kutchh visit has been still not published yet for some reason, same way there are many farmans of SMS in Khojki language which are still waiting to published either in Gujarati or other languages! in my opinion its doesn't matter whether this kind farmans are printed or not but don't worry brother may be one of days these unpublished farmans will be published! who knows? as you says that you heard from your parents same way I heard from my parents too because I heard same story from my parents about Pakistan's bright future many times in past. I still remember that my mom used to say that Pakistan is rising and India is falling down whenever she look at the moon at night! once I asked her how can you figured out that Pakistan is rising and India is falling down? she replied me that look at western side (in the direction of Pakistan) and look at eastern sight (in the direction of India) and you will find the differences? I noticed that the angle of moon from western side was little higher than eastern side, she explained me because of this higher angle of moon shows that Pakistan is rising and India are falling !!!!!, my parents were uneducated but they had lots of faith in SMS'S desires to make separate nation and they had high hope that Pakistan will be seperated one of days and Pakistan will be a top nation in the word ( aameen) now agree with my parents predictions (or their own philosophy!?) is totally up to you but it is makes lots of scenes to me, after studied Ismaili literatures, farmans and ginans.

Any way if you listen the waezs and read ginans of our pirs then you should have to believe that Pakistan's future is very bright, if it is not now then pretty soon but one of day Pakistan;s future will be very very bright Now let me give one example which I heard from my own ears and I was present at that time when current Mowlana Hazar Imam told that " Mehan" village will be like Paris one of days !! Methan is still not like Paris yet when I last visited 2 years ago but if you look Methan now a days then you have to believe that if Methan is still not like Paris yet but definitively one of days Methan will be same like Paris, it is possible it may not happen soon but it will one of days that is for sure.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:56 pm

Insha Allah Pakistan will progress and prosper (Ameen). On first visit to Pakistan Mowlana Hazir Imam has said "“This country is in my heart, for as you all know my beloved Grandfather was born here.”

You are right that many Farmans of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah are still in Khojki and are not published in any other language. The volume 3 of KIM could never be published. Therefore the Farmans during the last years of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah are generally not available.

I asked reference, there was a reason for it. Unfortunately, there are few people who make false story and statements and attribute it to Imam. Many people (particularly elders out of innocence) start believing it true. Therefore, it is important to know the detail when and where was it said. The complete details also help to understand it more properly.
Take example of Paris. Paris was not always advanced and developed as it is now. If you will look at history, even after French revolution, the development of Paris did not start. When monarch was over thrown, there was a period called "reign of terror" in Paris. Millions of people lost their lives. People were fed up with the new form of government. The development of Paris started when "Napoleon Bonaparte" who was in army, took control. He did many work to modernize France and became hero in eyes of Public. Yes, I agree, he did some blunders which led to his downfall. But as far as I have got to know, the era of development of Paris began with Napoleon.
What I am trying to say is, those countries which are developed and advanced now were not always developed. They had faced problems but ultimately with the passage of time, they became developed. Although currently, Pakistan is facing many problems but Insha Allah Pakistan will also get progress and prosperity.

Now, I have also heard some stories which shows that Imam has wished good for Pakistan and bad for India. I do not believe in such stories.
It is true Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah loved Pakistan and has highly praised Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan (When I read what Imam has written about him in Memoirs, I think no one can praise him to that extent which Imam has praised him). While Imam has expressed his love for Pakistan, that does not in any way mean that he dislike India.

@Aga Khani bro, sorry I do not agree with your moon example. Imam has infact hope, that Ismailis of India will be playing important role in advancement of India. Mowlana Hazir Imam in His takht Nasheeni ceremony in India, has said "The Ismailis are a relatively small segment of the huge, complex tapestry we know as modern India. But I believe they will play a full and by no means unimportant part in the future development of this country.To all Ismaili here today, I would say this. There is nothing exclusive about you. While your religious faith will always preserve a special identity, your secular loyalty is solely to India and to its elected government....As part of the nation of India, you must contribute your share to her advancement."

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:27 am

While Imam has expressed his love for Pakistan, that does not in any way mean that he dislike India.

Absolutely right Munir Mowla has never expressed his dis-likeness towards India.
Born and raised in India, I respect India a lot and I personally believe that India has received more privileges and gifts from god in almost every fields in comparison with other countries specially in religious side, India has given many religious saints/rishis/munis/holy men in past and there are still many rishis living in Himalayas they are more than 300-400 years old also many incarnations has been taken place in India (Ram, Krishna, Budha avatars )e.t.c. so, there is not a question that I hate India, I love India and salute as a holy country in the world.
But I also heard many strange stories about SMS and India, let me share one such story;Once Govt asked some kind tax from SMS!!? and Mowla got angered about that tax and cursed that India will be separated/divided in many small parts! I don't think this kind events ever happened or SMS cursed for India but yes, there are many strange stories still rolling around.

Paris was not always advanced and developed as it is now.

That is true too, thanks for sharing breif history of Paris's ups and downs.

@Aga Khani bro, sorry I do not agree with your moon example.

You don't have to brother Munir, as I already wrote that that was thinking of my uneducated (farmer) parent, neither I believed that when I heard first time nor I believe it right now, that moon has some thing to tell about the future of any nation!! the reason to share that story to show the blind faith of my parent in SMS'S(s.a.) saying for Pakistan.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:18 pm

You are right, the story that you found strange is completely fake. This strange story has nothing to do with truth. First of all it is difficult to even imagine that Imam was unwilling to pay tax and therefore started cursing. Its one of the story, which some one has invented himself. There are other such false stories, which some people have made up for their personal motives.
As I mentioned in my earlier post that during Takh Nashini ceremony of Hazir Imam in India, He said that He believe Ismailis living in India will play significant role in the future development of the country. Hazir Imam said "I feel certain that great opportunities lie ahead for you in this country." "In some ways, therefore, it could be said that Bombay is the birth-place of our modern, world-wide community. I hope that the Ismailis who live here will remember this fact and their duty to set an example which other communities abroad will be proud to follow." You can read the complete speech from this website.

GMR · Post by **GMR** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:42 am

Sensible nations take a lesson from their failures and positively plan and seriously think for the betterment of their nation and country, but unfortunately Pakistani nation is not prepared to do so.

The unfortunate incident of un-planned 1971 war with India, in which Pakistan lost its eastern wing (East Pakistan) and now called Bangladesh. About 93,000 soldiers including civil armed forces, were taken into captivity by India and these soldiers remained Prisoners of War (POWs) in different camps in India for more than two and half years. These un-armed soldiers were intentionally fed slow poison by Indian authorities, like greece, lime and grinded glass in their daily ration. The soldiers were also mentally as well as physically tortured.

On repatriation to Pakistan, these POWs were infected by different diseases and uptil now, according to reports, about 80% of these POWs have died so far and rest 20% are passing their lives under acute depression.

On the western wing, Pakistan also lost its territory and Indian forces occupied more than 45,000 sq. miles on international border. Later on the occupied land was handed over back to Pakistan in the era of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. About 45 villages in the then Northern Areas, now Gilgit-Baltistan, have been occupied by Indian forces and now these villages are under control of India, because of disputed territory.

Now Balochis are struggling for independence from Pakistan and war in Khyber Pukhtunkhwa and Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) is in its full swing. Target killings of opponent faiths is considered 'Jihad' Holy War by these so-called terrorists.

Let me cite here an incident of February 28th 2012, in which more than 19 innocent passengers including three women were forcibly dragged out of four vehicles, enroute to Gilgit, near Harban, Kohistan on Karakoram Highway (KKH) in broad daylight and brutally murdered by the terrorists of Al-Qaeda/Taliban/Jandullah, after checking identity cards of these passengers. The dead were belonged to different parts of Gilgit-Baltistan and were from Ithnashari sect (Twelver Shias). As a result, demonstrations were organised by the public and the life in Gilgit-Baltistan remained completely shut down and halt for about two weeks. The same practice is being demonstrated by Ithnashari terrorists, whenever they find chance with the opponent faiths.

The people of United States of America with 52 states could live with peace and harmony and Indian people, holding different faiths could bear each other, but Pakistanis (only four provinces) cannot live peacefully.

Islam is a religion of peace, harmony, generosity, tolerance and respecting each others' faiths, but these factors are gradually fading out from the hearts of Pakistanis, despite their claims that they are best people on earth.

The Nature is very kind and generous towards Pakistan. Four seasons, highest mountains in the world, 12 month agricultural land with cash crops, delicious fruits, minerals, water falls, rivers, glaciers, the worlds’ largest plateau (Deosai, in Gilgit-Baltistan) and healthy and beautiful people, but the people of Pakistan are un-thankful to their Creator and cruel people on earth. Under these circumstances, if someone thinks a prosperous Pakistan, he is living in the fools’ paradise.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:20 pm

These un-armed soldiers were intentionally fed slow poison by Indian authorities, like greece, lime and grinded glass in their daily ration. The soldiers were also mentally as well as physically tortured.

I disagree with your above comments that Indians did gave slow poisons to Pakistani soldiers, brother where are you? are you just reading or just listening Pakistani T.V. and Pakistani medias? or do you have just blind faith in Pakistani govt? its secret service burrow? go out side brother read and search little more and I bet you that you will sure find how good Pakistan really was during that war? and how good Pakistan is right now? and if you go more deep in history of that so called war then you will definitely find out that, which country attacked first? why this so called attack was taken place? you will find these and many still hidden truth about that attack. Unfortunately till today ( as a habit of Pakistani Govt and media) the true reasons behind that attack were still intentionally kept hidden till today by them even though they all knew that Pakistan had lost all three wars against India.
Any way look Pakistan's current position in American/Europeans eyes!! , look its current position in UNO!!!! (?????) I hate to say that but Pakistan has bad images at this time, at this moments, why? there are many reasons for that but the main and very powerful reasons are as follows:-
1,Stealing nuclear formula from some one and selling it to Norh Korea.
2, hidding Osama Bin Laden in Pakistani soil and making all the countries fool!!! even America and claiming that Laden was not hidden in Pakistan!!! I have many other reasons which I can post here but do you really wants to put it here? let me know if you want to put it here.
Pakistan had bad image from starting and for above two reasons Pakistan has damages its images even more.

By the way I personally like Pakistan because I have trust in our Pirs and in our Imams but as I wrote above that I am in favor of Pakistan because Pakistan has bright future as per the predictions of our great Pirs, so basically I don't have any thing against Pakistan and I respect Pakistan but not the leaders of Pakistan.
But that does't mean that I should be remain quiet even though somebody says bad thinkg and lie about India .. Be honest with you, I respect Pakistan as an Islamic nation, which nation still has to play big roll in near future but it doesn't mean that I should remain quiet about the truth and truth is this that India history revels that India never ever attacked any neighborhood countries first in past, it is tre that India had to fought many wars in past but that wars were only defensive wars, If some tibe attacked on India then India had to involved in that war for a example during Shaka, Huns, Morayas, Moguls and Turks attack and during the invasion of Alexandra the Great, Taimur lang, Nadir Shah Durani, Ibrahim Lodi and Mahhood Ghaznavi e.t.c then India was forced to participate in those wars for self protections but other then that India never ever attacked any neighborhood countries, unless necessity has been raised in past.

GMR · Post by **GMR** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:01 pm

[/quote]
I disagree with your above comments that Indians did gave slow poisons to Pakistani soldiers, brother where are you? are you just reading or just listening Pakistani T.V. and Pakistani medias? or do you have just blind faith in Pakistani govt?

Before posting a comment or disagreement, I suggest you to carefully read all the stuff and then come-up with your suggestions.

Migrating from India or Pakistan and settling-in in the western countries, doesn't mean that you are a supra natural. You don't know what is going on in these countries with the public or poor masses. We live in these countries and better know the circumstances and events and treatment of higher authorities with the public as compared to yours. I am an eye-witness of above this all, what do you say and your feelings? And these are 100% true facts and figures, which I dared to post in this forum.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:19 am

Migrating from India or Pakistan and settling-in in the western countries, doesn't mean that you are a supra natural.

As long my concern not at all, I am just people like India and Pakistan and believe me I raised my three kids giving same kind knowledge that we should not forget our Eastern culture and therefore I am still speaking with them in Urdu and Gujarati at home, make them to attend Jk whenever possible recites Du'as and drink Niaz every day, even though they all graduated from one of the top ten University in the world. Why, I forces them to learn, respect and not forget our Ismaili rituals and traditions? because our Imam also wants that way and there fore he made many farmans not to forget our great traditions "wherever you live either in London or New York you should not forget your great eastern traditions". but unfortunately it is true for some other Ismailis families they are thinking that they are living in heaven they do not keep any kind connection or contact with their home land and traditions but other side there are many ismailis who are not forget our ismaili cultures, rituals and customs.

The other facts described by you for Pakistan are quiet right but the most touched comments to me is : The people of United States of America with 52 states could live with peace and harmony and Indian people, holding different faiths could bear each other, but Pakistanis (only four provinces) cannot live peacefully. that is true and also shameful.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:34 pm

I disagree with your above comments that Indians did gave slow poisons to Pakistani soldiers, brother where are you? are you just reading or just listening Pakistani T.V. and Pakistani medias? or do you have just blind faith in Pakistani govt? its secret service burrow? go out side brother read and search little more and I bet you that you will sure find how good Pakistan really was during that war? and how good Pakistan is right now? and if you go more deep in history of that so called war then you will definitely find out that, which country attacked first? why this so called attack was taken place? you will find these and many still hidden truth about that attack. Unfortunately till today ( as a habit of Pakistani Govt and media) the true reasons behind that attack were still intentionally kept hidden till today by them even though they all knew that Pakistan had lost all three wars against India.

Agakhani bhai, I agree 100% with GMR bhai and I hope you would too because WAR IS HELL....There is nothing good about war as it creates several division, hatred, violence, loot, casualties etc etc

So often those who surrender willingly are not subjected to torture unless they are unwilling to disclose their plans....so war is HELL

GMR bhai, let me take you back to the very recent war of kargil where several pakistani soldiers were shot down by the Indian Army during the war...Nobody from pakistani side came forward to claim the body of those who laid their lives for their country....Eventually it was the Indian Army who performed the death rites of the fellow pakistani soldiers in INDIA

There is good and bad when it comes to war...but it is the negative part that often pricks us...we often tend to ignore the goodness [which is very rare]

Nobody gained nothing from this war...The only countries that were benefitted from this was USA and RUSSIA as they were the main suppliers of arms n ammunition

Any way look Pakistan's current position in American/Europeans eyes!! , look its current position in UNO!!!! (?????) I hate to say that but Pakistan has bad images at this time, at this moments, why? there are many reasons for that but the main and very powerful reasons are as follows:-
1,Stealing nuclear formula from some one and selling it to Norh Korea.
2, hidding Osama Bin Laden in Pakistani soil and making all the countries fool!!! even America and claiming that Laden was not hidden in Pakistan!!! I have many other reasons which I can post here but do you really wants to put it here? let me know if you want to put it here.
Pakistan had bad image from starting and for above two reasons Pakistan has damages its images even more.

Get you facts right agakhani bhai....Do you even know the inventors of atomic bomb ??....There was this project in USA called manhattan project which consisted of several scientists who were the inventors of atomic bomb and one of them was Raziuddin Siddiqui...A pakistani born scientist...However the job of making this demon[weapons] for pakistan was handled by AQ Khan a german educated engineer...And do you know whether this funding for creating this monster came from ??? ............SAUDI ARABIA

By the way I personally like Pakistan because I have trust in our Pirs and in our Imams but as I wrote above that I am in favor of Pakistan because Pakistan has bright future as per the predictions of our great Pirs, so basically I don't have any thing against Pakistan and I respect Pakistan but not the leaders of Pakistan.

I would not like to like pakistan for the sake of some pir/fakir...I personally had the chance to go to pakistan in 2000 for the didar and let me tell you brother there is no difference whatsoever between the people of india and pakistan...When my dad informed the taxi driver in karachi that we originally were from India he was soooo happy to see us and welcomed us warm heartedly and said "he has seen several tourists but not one from India" ....And then again in the fancy blinged out local bus[ yes they decorate their local private buses like its their bride ] while we were standing this gentleman asked us where we are from and once he realised that we were from India immediately stood up and offered his seat to my dad...Culture might be slightly different but people be it indian or pakistani wanna live in peace and harmony....There is mutual respect among the two teams which is a good sign

But that does't mean that I should be remain quiet even though somebody says bad thinkg and lie about India .. Be honest with you, I respect Pakistan as an Islamic nation, which nation still has to play big roll in near future but it doesn't mean that I should remain quiet about the truth and truth is this that India history revels that India never ever attacked any neighborhood countries first in past, it is tre that India had to fought many wars in past but that wars were only defensive wars, If some tibe attacked on India then India had to involved in that war for a example during Shaka, Huns, Morayas, Moguls and Turks attack and during the invasion of Alexandra the Great, Taimur lang, Nadir Shah Durani, Ibrahim Lodi and Mahhood Ghaznavi e.t.c then India was forced to participate in those wars for self protections but other then that India never ever attacked any neighborhood countries, unless necessity has been raised in past.

He may or may not be lying agakhani bhai...but as I said earlier WAR IS HELL !!...Rule number 1 in war = There are no rules.

But you're right, Mera Bharat Mahaan......JAI HIND

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:55 pm

While good discussion is going on just to add few points:
Dr A.P.J Kalam in his speech in Hyderabad proudly said "In 3000 years of our history, people from all over the world have come and invaded us, captured our lands, conquered our minds....Yet we have not done this to any
other nation. We have not conquered anyone...."

Just to clarify this, throughout the history Indians have never invaded any state outside Indian territory (By Indian territory, I mean to say entire South Asia including Pakistan and Afghanistan, which was once centre of Buddhist culture). But battles and wars among Indian States were frequent through out the history. I can give you many many examples in this regard for example Prithviraj, the ruler of Ajmer and Delhi invaded Gujarat, whose ruler was Bheemdev.
The battles and wars, within Indian subcontinent were so much that this lack of unity gave open invitation to all the foreigners including Greeks, Turks, British, French etc to invade India. Otherwise, God has blessed this land with natural security in form of large mountain ranges in north and long rivers, making it difficult to cross by invaders. Yet, lack of unity was always there among political rulers.

Do you know why British easily captured India? There was unity among them. But it was not among Indians. The Bengalis, Gujaratis, Marathis, and Sindhis did not consider themselves as "one nation". Those, who were fight in 1857 war also had different motives and intention.

With regards to Pakistan, when it was established, Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah had strongly recommended not to make Urdu as national language. He suggested to make Arabic as national language. The complete speech is available in this website. What happened? Bengalis did not accept Urdu as their national language. In protest against Urdu, many Bengalis lost their lives. The differences began to grow to such extent that finally East Pakistan was separated. Currently, Balochi leaders refuse to accept Urdu. Some of them hate Urdu so much, that they are ready to kill Urdu speakers in their land. Such is the condition? There is no one to control them. Musharaf in his time had tried to control it and he was successful also to some extent. Mr Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan in his speech warned people forget that you are Sindhi, Punjabi, Bengali whatever you may be..consider your self as Pakistani as your identity. People forgot what he said and what was his vision for the country. You will be surprised to know that the first national anthem of Pakistan, which was approved by Jinnah was composed by Hindu named Jagannath Azad.

With regards to cruel treatment with Pakistani soldiers in Indian land as mentioned by GMR, it is quite possible. Because, when there is intention of revenge people forget humanity. Throughout the history, even if you go back as old as during the time of Nandas and Mauryan Empire during Chandragupta Maurya, severe punishments were given. The same and even more cruel punishments are given now. Both in Pakistan and India, innocent fishermen, some of whom are just children, when by mistake cross the borders are kept in prison for 14 years or even more than that and are cruelly treated. While certain Bollywood movies like Veer Zaara, Main hoon na etc encourages good relations between the two countries, unfortunately politicians do not think the same.

@ Agakhani....good to know that you value eastern culture and @Shiraz, I agree with you that war is hell and disaster nothing else

GMR · Post by **GMR** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:12 pm

Agakhani bhai, atleast now you realised the true facts. [chalo der ayed durust ayed]. In earlier post, your comments were some little bit 'harsh'. While posting comment, you were in some kind of tension, as I assume, as you blamed 'blindly trusting in Pakistan, [akher jhoot ko ap sach to nahi keh saktey]. Anway, we are here to know and gain some positive knowledge from each other, irrespective of our nationality, whether we live in the east or west. First we should learn to become a good-humanbeing rather to be a flawed muslim. The farmans of Imam of the Time also stress us to be loyal to our country, where we live and respect to it's laws of the land. I personally value and welcome positive criticism, but I hate personal blaming, attacking, lying and propagation without any proper evidence and truth. The comments should be posted with concerete facts and figures.

Second my appreciation goes to Shiraz and Star-Munir for their impartial and detailed comments. As you all know that war, in any kind, is a war and certainly it brings and causes destruction to it's nation and country. We will not, and may not forget the deteriorating plight and sufferings and killings of the poor masses in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the recent uprising in the middle eastern countries and elsewhere in the world.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:55 am

Do you know why British easily captured India? There was unity among them. But it was not among Indians. The Bengalis, Gujaratis, Marathis, and Sindhis did not consider themselves as "one nation". Those, who were fight in 1857 war also had different motives and intention.

Munir, that was absolutely shameful event in the history of Indian freedom movement if they would had unity among all the Indian people then British Govt had to leave India in year 1857 or latter year.

Dr A.P.J Kalam in his speech in Hyderabad proudly said "In 3000 years of our history, people from all over the world have come and invaded us,

Absolutely right whenever in past any tribe attacked or invaded Inida even the Alexandra the Great then Pakistan (at that time part of India) had to fight with them for self defense whether they were wanted it or not to involve in those wars because Pakistan (Multan, Lahore, Peshawar) were the main entering gates to go deep in India.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:07 am

In earlier post, your comments were some little bit 'harsh'. While posting comment,

No, no brother GMR, it is my strange habit, don't you believe that? ask Shiraz even though he is my neighbor but whenever the times comes to tell the truth then I don't care about him either not even Kbhai, not even Admin, that is my own practice and habit some like it, some don't but please assure that there was no hard feeling from my side nor I was in stress.
BTW I lived 3 years in Hyderabad and Karachi before I migrate in USA so I am familiar about Pakistani people and Pakistani culture. I received two good thing from Pakistan during my short stay in Pakistan thing ; my wife she is Pakistani and the other thing is I learned Urdu there and studied deeply in Ismailism.

Pakistan in difficulties

Pakistan in difficulties

Re: Pakistan in difficulties