Ya Ali Madad,
I was reading the meaning of DHAN DHAN AAJNO DAADD LORE and came across the following:
Our Lord, who is the Master of the universe, weds the unwed universe.
Have a gathering...
I was wondering if we can discuss a deeper meaning of this phrase.
In order to appreciate the meaning behind this verse, I feel it is important to get a better understanding of the term universe. The universe as we perceive it has two aspects; the subjective and the objective. The objective universe is the one we share and is common to all. For example every one of us who sees a table out there will be able to perceive it as such. Then there is the subjective experience of each one of us which is different for everyone. For example a child will listen to a ginan and have a different meaning and interpretation of it than an adult. As we make spiritual progress through Ibaadat (in its broadest sense) our perception will change and as a result our universe will change accordingly. In essence each person has his/her own universe which can be shared by others or is unique to him/her.
The Pir is using the analogy of a worldly wedding/marriage to convey the relationship of the universe/experience of an individual with God. The unwed universe is a universe without the presence or awareness of God. It is analogous to an unwed woman. At the time of the composition of the verses, the status of an unwed woman was insecure, dishonorable, unhappy and unfulfilled. An unwed universe is insecure, violent, and fraught with confusion and doubt, is without peace and contentment and is generally unfulfilled.
When the Lord marries this unwed universe, i.e., through spiritual enlightenment, he becomes united with it. The universe/experience is filled with His presence and the person feels His presence at all times. This state is regarded as a spiritually married state. In this state all the person’s desires are fulfilled and he/she enjoys life to its fullest potential. It is a life of total submission to His ever presence. Because this person enjoys the heavenly experience, all the lower tendencies such as anger, pride, greed, lust and attraction for illusion disappear automatically.
Once spiritually married, always married. There is no divorce! A wed universe is independant of all other universes, i.e., one person's spiritual enlightenment has no direct bearing on someone else. It is a personal search. However, there is an indirect effect upon others in the sense of this persons influence either through preaching or example and conduct.
Last edited by kmaherali on Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think the title of this discussion should have been Dhan Dhan aj or something like this. It is always very frustrating to go into discussions where title do not say what it is all about... Thanks for your consideration for people who have less time to surf...
In order to illustrate the universality of the concept spiritual marriage, the following is a poem by St. Teresa of Avila who was a great Christian saint and a mystic. It is taken from "Love Poems from God" by Daniel Ladinsky. In this poem she expresses a sense of peace, freedom and fulfillment when spiritually married. Even the most intimate sexual desires are fulfilled in this marriage!
KNOW, DEAR, KNOW
I thought of putting my hand where I could tell no one,
on that part of my soul that is always warm.
I knew a sacred liquid there could
flow and give me
peace.
And my soul, I have come to see
is both spirit and
flesh.
The body is a nest I do not mourn when I fly, do you?
Why should I not give to myself
what a tender skilled husband could and remain free
of the external bindings of
another?
And God replied, "To those who are married
to me, I'll take care of things like that."
But what if you get busy with your other wives
and forget about my loneliness?
And again He spoke, saying, "I have not forgotten the thought of
any creature that ever lived.
If I do not take you into my arms as you might want,
know, dear, know, it is for
the upliftment of all.
And if I do come to you in a dream
and satisfy the most intimate of your physical desires,
know, dear, know, it is for
the upliftment
of all.
yam.well i was really impressed by some of the replies being posted and think will have to give a second thought to query relating to ur qs.As far as my knowledge goes it means
the Imam of the time(Ali) wud rule(weds..) over the entire earth(wholly), the unweded earth i.e the earth that had had never being entirely conquered before by anyone.this refers to the time in the future when the sins wud be at the peak and it wud become difficult for the believers to live and practise their faith.the believers then in agony, wud call upon Ali's help and the Imam of the time(A.S) wud rise up and declare himself the the true manifestation[many ppl(non-ismailies normally) refer this event as Imam Mehdi ka zahoor] imam n believers then wud fight against the evil forces i. e the forces of Dajjal( referred as Daint Kalingo in the ginans).The Imam wud destroy the evil forces and then wud declare his raj/rule over the entire earth that had had never been fully conquered by any ruler in the past.this way he weds the unwed universe.(many great rulers came in the past but no one was able to establish his rule over the entire earth,but that day Imam will do that,that is bound to happen) .As a consequence peaceful and free-from-sins earth wud be restored and ismailies InshaAllah wud rule.This is a prophecy in the ginan.
if any1 thinks i might be mistaken or am wrong kindly correct me.
kenshin wrote:As far as my knowledge goes it means
the Imam of the time(Ali) wud rule(weds..) over the entire earth(wholly), the unweded earth i.e the earth that had had never being entirely conquered before by anyone.this refers to the time in the future when the sins wud be at the peak and it wud become difficult for the believers to live and practise their faith.
YAM,
That is another possible interpretation. As Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita (4: 7,8) :
O Bharata (Arjuna)! whenever virtue (dharma) declines and vice (adharma) predominates, I incarnate as an Avatar. In visible form I appear from age to age to protect the virtuous and to destroy evildoing in order to reestablish righteousness.
However the above mentioned situation does not happen always. It happens periodically. The Ginans on the other hand are relevant for all times and hence the verse of the Ginan should also be interpreted to give it a continuous relevance.
When talking about subjective and objective it is important to know that in order to be truly objective one have to be above all else. All of creation percieved by us is subject to the limitations of time and space. Everything is subjective while we live in time and space.
Kenshin,
you are not wrong but far from the truth. You are reading this while you sit in time and space so all your thoughts and imagination are unconcsiously bound to them. The literal meaning has appealed to the shariaties very well but for Ismailies, we have to trascend that and start looking at things with an open heart seeking the meaning.
One thing I will repeat for the umpteenth time. Ismailism has nothing, I repeat NOTHING to do with the physical body. Imam SMS has made a farman about it too.
There was some mention of earth.
I perceived that as the mound of dust/earth we carry around with us throughout our physical lives (the body)
When talking about subjective and objective it is important to know that in order to be truly objective one have to be above all else. All of creation percieved by us is subject to the limitations of time and space. Everything is subjective while we live in time and space.
YAM Shamshu,
When you have attained the status of 'above all else' there is no object out there to be objective about! You are all "Youself" or "Himself". In other words the experience is totally subjective and not objective at all. Your experience will be distinct and independant of others. As Rumi says in his poetry, "I know of only my world all other worlds are hallucinations.
u r probably right that i have taken it in a rather literal sense,however,actually this is one of the interpretations of al-waez abu ali-but still its an interpretation.But one thing i missed was that he said that this event wud take place ( i dont know whether a war like thing wud take place ) but all the vices wud be wiped off and physically imam wud establish rule on earth + one more thing that is in ginans is that when this event takes place countless souls wud achieve eternity(unifying and achieving salvation). so may be imam weds the unweds universe both physically(as in my last post) and spritually(unwed countless souls achieving salvation and blessed by imams deedar).Also one thing that jus came to my mind was pir hassan kabirdin in one of his ginans pleading the lord(imam) continously to marry him(he has used her infact),who is still a virgin.(of course has to be taken in the spritual sense, so meaning spritual marriage).same way i guess here as well the Pir is speaking of this wedding thing when countless soul wud achieve salvation,but it might be accompanied by a physical event,only few might know--not me though.
Dear K,
The way I see it as soon as an entity reaches "above all else" it has to transcend its self ad infinitum. Reminds me of a section of the ginan noted above
Here we are just thinking about the meaning of being above all else. The way you see it he is everything and everything is he.
Today I see it as he is nothing and nothing is everything. You could also say everything is nothing. The Quran does say that we came from him and to him we are returning. Him = Allah = The (great) nothing.
Dude, we may want to take this to PM's The discussion is twisting this thread into an unrecognisable "Guchum".
A human soul never actually attains the status of "He who is above all else".
"He who is above all else" is NOT a spiritual status really, it is the Essence of the Divine Nur (Light).
"He who is above all else" is the Essence of Allah, and the seed of Divinity.
When a person experiences Allah or The Light, they do not experience He who is above all else. The experience He who is above all else manifested as Divinity or Allah or The First Intellect.
When talking about subjective and objective it is important to know that in order to be truly objective one have to be above all else. All of creation percieved by us is subject to the limitations of time and space. Everything is subjective while we live in time and space.
Kenshin,
you are not wrong but far from the truth. You are reading this while you sit in time and space so all your thoughts and imagination are unconcsiously bound to them. The literal meaning has appealed to the shariaties very well but for Ismailies, we have to trascend that and start looking at things with an open heart seeking the meaning.
One thing I will repeat for the umpteenth time. Ismailism has nothing, I repeat NOTHING to do with the physical body. Imam SMS has made a farman about it too.
There was some mention of earth.
I perceived that as the mound of dust/earth we carry around with us throughout our physical lives (the body)
Have to go
ttyl
Shams
Dear Shamsu
Ya Ali Madat.
It might be good to note to folks that the above is your definition..not the authoritative definition of Ismailism...ismailism allows us to have many definitions..each with his own definition...
Ismailism must have something to do with the physical body..after all we live in the physical world..
As per MHI's farman..we have to have a balance..
to me..
this verse talks about something else mentioned in Moman Chetamni..where there is mention of Aswari..
or from another ginan..
Tene Kane Kundal Mukat Shobhe, Tinak Tundal Bandshe..Vishwa Ne Vardan Daine Kayam Kanya Painshe.
