Are Hindu Purans and Hindu scriptures are trustable??

[MR-FORGET]

Recently I finished two Hindu Purans
1 Shrimad Bhagwat Puran and
2,Bhavishya Puran
written by well known sage ''MAHARSHI VED VYAS" of Hindu religion but in Bhavishya Puran I found unacceptable story about 'MAHAMMAD' ( Prophet Mohammed PBUH) in this puran he wote that Mahamad was son of demon name Tripurashur!!!?? and MAHAMAD will start new demon religion?

The following paragraph has been taken from "Bhavishya Puran"

"There was a mystic demon named Tripura(Tripurasura), whom I have already burnt to ashes, he has come again by the order of Bali. He has no origin but he achieved a benediction from me. His name is Mahamada(Muhammad) and his deeds are like that of a ghost. Therefore, O king, you should not go to this land of the evil ghost. By my mercy your intelligence will be purified".



NOW MY QUESTION TO ISMAILI. NET SCHOLARS and other readers are:-

1, Was Prophet Mohammaed(PBUH) really son of demon? Astagafirullah, no.

2, Did "MAHAMMAD" started demon religion? Is Islam is demon religion?? Astagafirullah, nope.

3, Does Mecca is evil or ghost city? nope

then how the heck we Ismailis or any Muslims can accept these big lies from Bhavishya Puran?? did above statement are true? are Hindu purans and Hindu scriptures are reliable? Heck no.
Any comment on this topic will be welcomed.

[agakhani]

Many Hindu and other religions Scholars and historians do not accept 'BHAVISHYA PURAN" as trustable and reliable puran, because it has been changed many times therefore Bhavishya Puran is not considered an authoritative religious scripture. It is amply clear that the book continued to be written till late 19th century. Because it also contains stories of Jesus Christ, Akbar, Sawai Jai Singh, Alha Udal, Tulsidas, Surdas, Guru Nanak, Shahjahan, Aurangzeb, Shivaji and even Queen Victoria and her Parliament. Bulk of the material seems to be written during foreign rule. Thus, Bhavishya Puran does not even come in category of evidence, when it comes to Hindu religion.

As long as Hindu Purans and scriptures are concerned only
1, SHRIMAD BHAGWAT PURANS
2, RAMAYAN
3, BHAGWAT GITA are considered authentic, reliable and acceptable by many historians and scholars, so whatever wrote about Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) in Bhavishya puran is not true.

[shiraz.virani]

MR-FORGET ....you might like to go through this link, its very informative !

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/prophhs.html

[agakhani]

Shiraz,

I visited the above link provided by you, it is interesting link thanks for sharing with us, however some facts are not right so that I don't agree with the author Dr. J. Haq.

For example he explained in Table 1 as follows

Brahma: Abraham
Saraswati: Sarah
Manu, Manuh: Nuh

Now according Ismaili ginans Brahma is Prophet Mohhamad (PBUH) not the Prophet Abraham (PBUH) let me give you the exact meaning of word Brhama,

"The creator of the whole universe is called Brahma in Sanskrit".

If you read Ismaili ginans ( I know you do) and other Hindu religious purans then you will accept that Brahma(read "BRAHMA PURAN)" is the creator of this whole universe, I don't know exact ayat # but it is also mentioned in Quran (if I am not mistaking); in which Allahtala said that ( not exact words) First I separated Prophet Mohammad's noor from my noor and entered it in Mohammad and thus the whole universe is created from the 'NOOR' of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), so Prophet Mohammaed (PBUH) is the creator of whole universe so he is Brahma according the Sanskrit dictionary.

May be you, Brother K or Admin can give more detail about this ayats.

If we accept above definition and explanation then we have to accept Prophet Mohammad as a 'BRAHMA" not the Prophet Abraham (PBUH) respectively.

By the way Dr. Z. Haq seems he is Sunni, it is possible that his above articles written on Sunny Akida and believes, FYI Dr. J.Haq ,Dr. Jakir Naik and Pandit Vedprakash Upadhyay's ( Mr. Upadhyay wrote one book name 'KALKI AVATAR' in this book he claims that Hindus should not wait any longer for the arrival of Tenth Kalki Avatar, because Kalki Avatar Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) has already arrived and departed from this world fourteen centuries ago) all these three authors books has been criticized by many scholars. We Ismailis do not consider Prophet Mohammad as Kalki or tenth avatar, but we consider him as a creator of whole this universe"BRAHAMA".


For as an Ismailis we have to stick what our ginans says.

[agakhani]

Mr. Forget,

Indeed, you raised solid question about the "Bhavishya Puran" I already posted my comments on your above question i.e. "Bhavishya Puran is not authentic puran since it seems that many topics has been added latter time after the death of Maharshi Ved Vyas,(read my above post for more detail) however we need more discussion in this interesting topics so I urge other readers to participate as well.

For those readers who have interest in Hindu purans and if they want to tally with our ginans, for them I will recommend only one Puran "SHRIMAD BHAGWAT MAHA PURAN' In which you will find many things from different 18 Hindu Purans also you will find many things which directly match with our ginans.
there are few other interesting Hindu purans you can read if you really want to,but you don't have too because if you read " Bhagwat Puran", the main and trustable puran then you will find all details from various puran in it butin short.
1, Brahmand Puran ( very good to know how this universe was created)
2, Kurma, Matsya, Vaman, Varah in which you find about the various reincarnation of lord Vishnu (avatar which also match with our ginans)
3, Garud Puran, Most hallowed Purana regarding the death and its aftermaths.( this will be OK if you believe in incarnation if not don't read it)
and if you do not read remaining purans then it is ok because you will find most things in 'SHRIMAD BHAGWAT PURAN"
The other purans describe how to worship there various Hindu gods, like Shiva, Vishnu, Markandya, Garud and Agni which we do not do that so it is not important to read those purans

[shiraz.virani]

Brahma: Abraham
Saraswati: Sarah
Manu, Manuh: Nuh

Now according Ismaili ginans Brahma is Prophet Mohhamad (PBUH) not the Prophet Abraham (PBUH) let me give you the exact meaning of word Brhama,

"The creator of the whole universe is called Brahma in Sanskrit".

Well scientifically speaking brother agakhani all the 3 major religions originated from prophet ibrahim[as] namely judaism, christianity and islam .... so the origins of main stream religions started with the creator/establisher i.e H.ibrahim[as]....Now this is my take !!

The term creator @ above is not used to proclaim divinity towards h.ibrahim[as]....its like for example you created a car which means you are the creator of the car !....similarly h.ibrahim[as] was the creator/establisher/friend/proclaimer that helped is reaching out mass people with one message i.e BELIEF IN ONE GOD !!

If you read Ismaili ginans ( I know you do) and other Hindu religious purans then you will accept that Brahma(read "BRAHMA PURAN)" is the creator of this whole universe, I don't know exact ayat # but it is also mentioned in Quran (if I am not mistaking); in which Allahtala said that ( not exact words) First I separated Prophet Mohammad's noor from my noor and entered it in Mohammad and thus the whole universe is created from the 'NOOR' of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), so Prophet Mohammaed (PBUH) is the creator of whole universe so he is Brahma according the Sanskrit dictionary.

Ok i dont think what you said @ above is mentioned in any aayat of the holy quran.....but it might be mentioned in hadiths which i personally dont believe in !

But if you read the same quran god did mention that rasool[saw] is the servant of allah[swt]

If we accept above definition and explanation then we have to accept Prophet Mohammad as a 'BRAHMA" not the Prophet Abraham (PBUH) respectively.

We can compare brahma with the sun.....as long as the sun exists we shall survive.....the day our sun stops generating head/light and becomes a dwarf star the whole universe that we live in will be darkened !!

We can compare rasool[saw] with the sun that gives light and whose light never exhausts !!....This my brother is the light of allah[swt] mentioned in quran .......We see today that the world that we live in is no longer the place where religion is practised the way it should be practised.....lets take an example of ALYKHAN VELSHI, who is a wise skilled killer during the day and spiritual from 6pm to 9pm.....The light of god cannot be extinguished by satan or any other evil forces.....the light of god can be extinguished only and only by US[humans] who choose movie instead of prayers.....liquor instead of abe shafa and much much more !!

But yes i do agree that all the prophets are BRAHMAS [light of god] whose message is peace/unity and belief in one god !!

By the way Dr. Z. Haq seems he is Sunni, it is possible that his above articles written on Sunny Akida and believes, FYI Dr. J.Haq ,Dr. Jakir Naik and Pandit Vedprakash Upadhyay's ( Mr. Upadhyay wrote one book name 'KALKI AVATAR' in this book he claims that Hindus should not wait any longer for the arrival of Tenth Kalki Avatar, because Kalki Avatar Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) has already arrived and departed from this world fourteen centuries ago) all these three authors books has been criticized by many scholars. We Ismailis do not consider Prophet Mohammad as Kalki or tenth avatar, but we consider him as a creator of whole this universe"BRAHAMA".

If we believe that we are no longer in KALIYUG as brother maherali said in the past then one has to believe that the kalki avatar was none other than rasool[saw] who cleansed the world with ISLAM.....His arrival in india, Hindu king washing prophets feet with ganga water is the proof of it !!!

If you read the purana it says :

The translation of Verses 5-27 (Sanskrit text of the Puranas, Prati Sarg Parv III: 3, 3) is presented below from the work of Dr. Vidyarthi.

“A malechha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Mahamad. Raja (Bhoj) after giving this Mahadev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the 'Panchgavya' and the Ganges water, (i.e. purging him of all sins) offered him the presents of his sincere devotion and showing him all reverence said, 'I make obeisance to thee.' 'O Ye! the pride of mankind, the dweller in Arabia, Ye have collected a great force to kill the Devil and you yourself have been protected from the malechha opponents (idol worshipers, pagans).' ‘O Ye! the image of the Most Pious God the biggest Lord, I am a slave to thee, take me as one lying on thy feet.'

“The Malechhas have spoiled the well-known land of the Arabs. Arya Dharma is not to be found in that country. Before also there appeared a misguided fiend whom I had killed [note: e.g., Abraha Al-Ashram, the Abyssinian viceroy of Yemen, who attacked Mecca]; he has now again appeared being sent by a powerful enemy. To show these enemies the right path and to give them guidance the well-known Mahamad (Mohammad), who has been given by me the epithet of Brahma is busy in bringing the Pishachas to the right path. O Raja! You need not go to the land of the foolish Pishachas, you will be purified through my kindness even where you are. At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of a Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of ‘Ashwar Parmatma (God, Supreme Spirit), I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat-eaters. My follower will be a man circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution, announcing call for prayer and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. Because of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmans (Muslims). I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nation."

Arya Dharma = The noble way

For as an Ismailis we have to stick what our ginans says.

To each his own brother !!

[kmaherali]

then how the heck we Ismailis or any Muslims can accept these big lies from Bhavishya Puran?? did above statement are true? are Hindu purans and Hindu scriptures are reliable? Heck no.
Any comment on this topic will be welcomed.

There is of course strength in pluralism. We accept knowledge and wisdom from other traditions if they reinforce the understanding of our traditions. If on the contrary they contradict our own traditions then we must reject them.

Clearly the scriptures that you have highlighted appear to contradict our tradition and understanding of Prophet Muhammad and hence we must reject it.

[MR-FORGET]

Thanks KMaher Ali,

You explained very nicely in very short sentences rather than posting this link and that link and make readers more confuse.

[MR-FORGET]

Agakhani,

Thanks for your detail on puran, which puran we should read and which puran we should not read.
I read almost all of your posts and it seems that you have very deep knowledge in almost every topics, specially in Ismailism, ginans ,Hinduism and many more topics , how did you achived all these knowledge? are you waezin? religious teacher? have you wrote any books? if yes please let me know where can I find that?
Can I e-mail and ask you some questions which are directly related to Ismailism and Hindiism?

[shiraz.virani]

I dedicate this post to MR.FORGET ME NOT

India is from ADAM ?

Despite its idols and cultural rituals, Hinduism can be considered a monotheistic faith at heart. Dhulfiqar Ali considers its relationship with Islam.


According to hadith, it was some 15,000 years ago that Adam first set foot on Earth. Legend has it that his descent from the heavens was on the paradise of Serendip — modern day Sri Lanka. Adam’s Peak in Sri Lanka now marks a spot sacred to Hindus, Christians and Buddhists alike, exemplifying the fusion of culture, religion and myth that the Indian Subcontinent is.

The myth of Adam’s origin may have some truth to it, since it is along the plains of the Ganges where we find evidence of early man and his wanderings. The Bhimbetka rock shelters in Madhya Pradesh, India — a UNSECO’s world heritage site — contain drawings and carvings at least 12,000 years old.

Archaeological evidence from more than 200,000 years ago places the Homo erectus (ancestors of the Homo sapiens), who migrated from Africa, in the sacred Narmada valley in Madhya Pradesh. Hadith from Imam Ali (as) and Imam As-Sadiq (as) about Adam and his origins seem to support this theory, and explain the humanoid ‘nas-naas’ (Homo erectus) predating the ‘naas’ (Homo sapien). Is Indian Adam the missing link?

India, the birth place of mankind, is also the origin of the first monotheistic faith. ]The most remarkable piece of evidence to suggest that India or Hindustan was a place where a single, infinite and ever-lasting deity was worshiped is the Hindu scripture itself. The Vedas (which means knowledge in Sanskrit) is the oldest sacred text of Hinduism and dates back to 2000 BC. The Vedas speaks of the concept of ‘Brahman’ — the ultimate, unchanging, immanent, transcendental cosmic reality, an interpretation of God similar to the Quranic Allah (swt). Verses from the Brahma Sutra Hindu scripture are reminiscent of Surah Al-Ikhlas:

“There is only one God, not the second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit.”

“There is no likeness of Him.” [Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]


Please dont misjudge @ above verse for imams[as] or prophets[as] as most ismailis do !

Now this portion I dedicate to brother AGAKHANI

The Vedas is also replete with stories of prophets including an individual similar to the Quranic Nuh called ‘Manu’ or ‘Satyavrata’ — the one with the oath of truth. Manu had great wisdom, was devoted to virtue and is reported by the Vedas to be the saviour of humanity from a global flood.

The creator god in Hinduism — ‘Brahma’ — translates as ‘Ibrahim’ in Arabic and the Brahmins, the upper caste Hindus can be regarded as the “seyeds” of Hinduism.

Remember The story of Ibrahim (as) as an idol-breaker and traveller who reformed society by breaking the literal and metaphorical idols resonates closely with the concept of Brahma.

Finally and perhaps most significantly to Muslims, the Puranas – a group of old, important Hindu texts predict: “A foreign spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Mahamad.” In describing the companions of “Mahamad”


The Vedas speaks of “a man with a two edged sword” and also the mass murder of his progeny — descriptions that bear a close resemblance to Imam Ali (as) and Karbala.

Critics would discard such explanations as mere abstraction and label it as fantasy designed to Islamicise the Hindu texts. Indeed, it is difficult to argue otherwise if modern practice of Hinduism is considered, with its worship of the cow, idols and other objects that seem a reflection of anything but monotheism.

However, the reality is that Hindus regard the objects, rituals and images of their worship not as gods, but simply as external intercessors or signs of a divine Being — the ever-present Brahman who has no statue to represent him, because he simply “is”.

Brahman is singular and one in existence, the other ‘gods’ being a manifestation of the single Brahman. He is in everything, not separate from anything, and impossible to view. He exists without question or comprehensible explanation — an idea that crops up often in the Munajaat (supplication) of Imam Ali (as), the Illuminati philosophy of Shurawardi and ifran (mysticism) of Ibn Arabi

For those who are not aware of the supplication of imam ali[as] go through this link :

http://www.jafariyanews.com/articles/2k ... cation.htm


The Hindu Vedas can be regarded as the pioneering text of negative theology, where God’s qualities can only be established through a negation of what He is obviously not — similar to the proclamation of La ilaha illul lah (There is no god except Allah).

The Quran testifies that there is no question of Allah (swt) creating a nation and then not sending it guidance, even if it is the awakening of the nabi within – the alternative does not befit the justice of an All-Just Being. In this spirit it can be assumed that prophets of Allah (swt) may have come to India and Hinduism was once (and perhaps still is), a monotheistic faith. Granted one that has been contaminated and distorted with culture and myth, where rituals have become more important than the messages and changes it was supposed to bring. Many would argue this is a situation all too common today within Islam itself.

The Quran describes the Jews, Sabians and Christians as people of the book according them certain rights, such as the right to marry. The same station is not bestowed to the followers of the Vedas, despite the monotheistic leitmotif of these ancient texts. The reasons cited are primarily that the deviation from “monotheism” and the contamination of religion with culture has reached such an extent that any distillation of the two is not possible, and whatever truth there was in the teachings of the Vedas has been lost with the tides of time.

Although the Quran and Prophet do not explicitly recognise Hindus as ahlul-kitab (people of the monotheistic “books”), a lack of recognition does not equate to denial. It is argued that the Quran only refers to the Abrahamic faiths because they were known to the people of the Arabian Peninsula — there was little or no direct contact with Hindus at the time.

Indeed the first post-Islamic Arab contact with India was either through Imam As-Sajjad (as) whose wife and mother of Zaid, was from Sindh, or through Abdullah Ghazi, the great grandson of Imam Al-Hassan (as), who was chased off to India around 712AD by Mohammed Ibn Qasim, the son in-law of Hajjaj bin Yousaf, butcher of the Shia Muslims of Baghdad.

Thereafter, the vast lands and estates of India embraced generation upon generation of Arab sayeds and Shias.

India and its multiplicity, diversity and acceptance became the perfect refuge for the oppressed Shia Muslims of Arabia.

Considering the theological evidence available an urgent re-assessment of Hinduism is required within the folds of Islam. And Hindus, if not as believers of a nameless transcendent, immanent and infinite being, should be embraced as bearers of the human spirit.

As I said last time.....To each his own

Khuda Hafiz

Yaa ali madad

[agakhani]

Can I e-mail and ask you some questions which are directly related to Ismailism and Hindiism?

MR-FORGET,
Of course, you can e-mail me any question you may have but I think you should contact with following gentleman first, they are more talented, educated and have more knowledge than me in almost all the fields and all the topics. ( it is not necessary that I always agree with their thoughts, thinking, opinions, their own philosophy and believes ,I had clash with them many times specially with KM ad Shiraz) but of course they are genius and much talented then me, this is my person thinking towards them, I personally learned lots from them, therefore I salute them.
1, BROTHER KMAHERALI
2, BROTHER ADMIN
3, SHIRAZ VIRANI
4, SHAMSB
5, STAR_ MUNIR
I don't know they give you permission or not but it is nothing wrong to ask them first, if you still not satisfied with their answer then you can contact with me but I personally believe you wont be disappointed with their answers.

Neither, I am waezeen, or a religious teacher nor I wrote any books yet, I have some plots and ideas in my mind but I don't know when will I write that, Inshaallah one of day that is for sure
I don't consider my self as a scholar, religious person or a talented guru.

[shiraz.virani]

http://shiastudies.net/article/english/ ... hp?id=1577

[agakhani]

Bhaunik Puran is a very ancient book of the Hindu religion

Shiraz,
I took above quote from the link you just provided above, I want to make sure the correct name of that Puran mentioned in above link, there are 18*** total Hindu purans, but I haven't heard about 'BHAUNIK PURAN"!!?? it is possible that it may be mistake in spelling, but can you or anyone else give me correct name of the 'BHAUNIK PURAN? for your quick reference I am posting the list of all 18*** Hindu purans.


Purana name: Verses number: Comments

1,Agni Puran: 15,400 verses: Contains details of Vastu Shastra and Gemology

2,Bhagavata Puran: 18,000 verses: The most celebrated and popular of the Puranas,[20] telling of Vishnu's ten Avatars. Its tenth and longest canto narrates the deeds of Krishna, introducing his childhood exploits, a theme later elaborated by many Bhakti movements.[21]

3,Bhavishya Puran: 14,500 verses : not consider as a authentic puran.

4,Brahma Puran: 10,000 verses Describes about Godavari and its tributaries. Shortest among Purans.

5,Brahmanda Puran: 12,000 verses: includes Lalita Sahasranamam, a text some Hindus recite as prayer, story of universe and creation.

6,Brahmavaivarta Purans: 17,000 verses: Describes Worshipping protocols of Devis,Krishna and Ganesha.

7,Garuda Puran: 19,000 verses: Most hallowed Purana regarding the death and its aftermaths.

8,Harivamsa Puran: 16,000 verses: more often considered itihāsa. *** not considered as sperate puran.

9,Kurma Puran: 17,000 verses: Story of "Kurma" avatar of lord Vishnu.

10,Linga Puran: 11,000 verses Staunch Shaiva Theological Purana

11,Markandeya Puran: 09,000 verses The Devi Mahatmya, an important text for the Shaktas is embedded in it.

12,Matsya Puran: 14,000 verses: Story of "Matsya: avatar of Lord Vishnu.

13,Narada Puran: 25,000 verses: Describe the greatness of Veda and Vedangas.

14,Padma Puran: 55,000 verses. This Purana contains the story of Rama, Ekadasi, Bhrgu, Matsys etc. This Purana also contains the synopsis of everything.

15,Shiva Puran: 24,000 verses, Story of Shiva.

16,Skanda Puran: 81,100 verses: The longest Purana, it is an extraordinarily meticulous pilgrimage guide, containing geographical locations of pilgrimage centers in India, with related legends, parables, hymns and stories. Many untraced quotes are attributed to this text.[22]

17,Vamana Puran: 10,000 verses: Mostly describes about North India and areas around Kurukshetra.

18,Varaha Puran: 24,000 verses. Story of " Varah" avatar of Lord Vishnu.

19,Vayu Puran: 24,000 verses. *** SUBPURAN

20,Vishnu Puranl: 23,000 verses: Considered as the oldest Purana and gem among all Purana.

*** NOTE:_ Harivansh Puran and Vayu Puran are not consider separate Purans they both are 'SUBPURANS"but I just put here in above list actual total purans are 18.

[shiraz.virani]

Agakhani bhai , I felt the same way when i first read it....I searched at 3-4 websites and they have this same info....Is it possible that hindus might have denounced this book ?

Whatever you read in the link which i gave was mentioned in the book called " Barm Uttar Khand "

Unfortuanately even this book is not to be found

[agakhani]

I think that puran correct name should be 'BHAVISHYA PURAN" but this puran has big question mark about it's authenticity and that question MR-FORGET already raised in this topic.

As long as some prophets names and some Islamic events are concerned we can find these information in only two purans 1,Shrimad Bhagwat Maha Puran and 2, Bhavishya Puran , so my thinking is that it might be spelling mistakes from BHAVISYA PURAN TO BHAUNIK PURAN.

[MR-FORGET]

I dedicate this post to MR.FORGET ME NOT

India is from ADAM ?

Thanks for your post very interesting, but why India has so important in almost everyfield, in religion, holy man, Vushu's incarnation ( avatar) like Rama, Lord Krishna, Budha? ancient civilization, e.t.c. ?
Is not this injustice from God?

[shiraz.virani]

India is from ADAM ?

Thanks for your post very interesting, but why India has so important in almost everyfield, in religion, holy man, Vushu's incarnation ( avatar) like Rama, Lord Krishna, Budha? ancient civilization, e.t.c. ?
Is not this injustice from God?

In india religion is way of like [just like islam] .....You would never see such a diverse brotherhood anywhere else in the world , Religion is a very integral part of indian culture

Why god chose india ? well everything happens for a reason .....India by god's grace is the only true democratic country where all religions are treated equally.....there is no jaat/paat issue like we see in pakistan [YES ,creation of pakistan was a huuuuuuuuge mistake and today we can see why]

Holy man, prophets[as], ancient civilizations are not limited to india brother....south america is the home of ancient culture once you start reading world history and the story of ancient SUMERIANS you would know that mankind has been there even before quranic adam was born

[zina.khan]

And so why were so many muslims butchered in Gujrat? or maybe Gujrat is not part of India?

[agakhani]

And so why were so many muslims butchered in Gujrat? or maybe Gujrat is not part of India?

Gujarat!!? Sister, It was started after the Muslims rioters burned Hindu pilgrims trains and killed innocents pilgrims in Ghodhra.
I noticed that whenever the riots broke up it is always started by Muslims first, whether it was killing cows in front of Hindu temples intentionally or burning the train in revenge of BABARI MASJID, by the way there are few other Indian states where more Muslims are killed in comparison of Gujarat whenever Hindu-Muslim riots broke up.

[zina.khan]

I just gave one example...do you want to get into the nitty gritty? just let it be...there are folks who can unravel for you the graphic details based on certain realities...this subject is of not much interest to me and frankly I don't care either....certainly India is more tolerant than many ....but everyone has their own share of issues, bigots and terrorism....plus can you explain the basis (assuming you are in agreement with what was said) that it was an error ( a hugh mistake) to create Pakistan? and that India is the world's best democracy? I think some of you need to do more research....I need to understand why? and how this conclusion was drawn?

btw....was there a mosque that was demolished...I believe it is a famous incident by now...

*Pundit Vedaprakash Upadhyai, a Hindu Professor, in his stunning book claims that the description of the 'AVATAR" found in the Holy Books of the Hindu religion, matches the Holy Prophet Muhammed (P.B.U.H.).

Recenty in **India**, a fact-revealing book has been published.

The book has been the topic of discussion and gossip all over the country.

If the author of this were a Muslim he probably would have been arrested or murdered. *

*Perhaps all copies of this book would have been confiscated. Maybe, even a ban would have been extended. *

*A riot and violence would have broken out against the innocent Muslims and their blood would been shed.

What is this all about? would you know by any chance? let me know please....much appreciated Sir !

Zinat Khan
[/b]

[zina.khan]

One of the ways in which the Truth of a Prophetic claim is affirmed is by a confirmation given by the previous Prophet and so the basis of evaluating Muhamad's (SAW) Prophethood as a succeeding Prophet, can be found also in the Scriptures and the People of the Book have recognized the Prophet of Islam just as clearly as they had recognized their own children....

Simply stated the distinguishing signs of Muhamad's Prophethood is clearly indicated in the revealed scriptures and none have denied this truth save only a party of them who did this knowingly....even the Prophet of Islam has claimed that JESUS gave glad tidings regarding his own advent when he (JESUS) said...

" Lo ! I am the Messenger of God unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the TORAH and bringing good news of a Messenger who cometh after ME, whose name is AHMAD..." (Sura al SAFF )...now the People of the Book have not refuted this claim though they have REFUSED to acknowledge it's TRUTH.

In the Gospel of St John, Chapter 14-16 there is a clear reference to Muhamad as the PARAKLETOS....Jesus never preached the doctrines of Original sin or Holy Trinity and Jesus never claimed to be a Creator of the Universe in a human form or even the begotten son of God the way the Christians believe in him.

Jesus never told his followers to worship him. Infact Jesus used to pray to God putting his forehead on the ground (Matthew 26:39, 14,23)

Where did the words like 'Christianity' and 'Trinity' come from?

And what religion did Jesus preach? If it was not Islam (i.e., surrender to Creator's Will) then what is it ?

Well, there is solid evidence in the New Testament that proves without any doubt that Jesus used to preach Islam.

Jesus said: "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father {sounds like Islam?}." (John 5:30)

The Arabic word 'Islam' means "surrender to Creator's Will". It also means Peace.

One who peacefully surrenders his/her will to the Will of Creator is called Muslim. Jesus also surrendered his will to the Will of his Creator (aka Eloi/Allah), and as such he was a Muslim (in Faith) and a Jew (in race):

Let us discuss something very simple, very easy that if your little ones are called in to hear the discussion, would have no difficulty in following it, shall we?" .

You see the most important words of this prophecy are 'SOOS JY IS' (like unto thee), - LIKE YOU - like Moses, and Jesus is like Moses they say or believe .

"In which way is Jesus like Moses?" The answer they will give is: "In the first place Moses was a JEW and Jesus was also a JEW; secondly, Moses was a PROPHET and Jesus was also a PROPHET - therefore Jesus is like Moses and that is exactly what God had foretold Moses according to them - "SOOS JY IS".

"Can you think of any other similarities between Moses and Jesus?".

"If these are the only two criteria for discovering a candidate for this prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:18, then in that case the criteria could fit any one of the following Biblical personages after Moses:- Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist etc., because they were also ALL "Jews" as well as "Prophets".

Why should we not apply this prophecy to any one of these prophets, and why only to Jesus? Why should we make fish of one and fowl of another?"

Why we maintain that the prophecy refers to Muhamad and not Moses ?


"In the FIRST place Jesus is not like Moses, because, according to Christians - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. ...Is this true?" "Yes." ... "Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses!

"SECONDLY, according to them - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world.... Is this true?" "Yes." "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!"

"THIRDLY, according to them - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. Is this true?"... "Y-e-s." "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!" ... "these are not hard facts, solid facts, and yet they are mere matters of belief over which the little ones can stumble and fall.

"You see, my conclusions are that Jesus is most unlike Moses, and if I am wrong I would like you to correct me."

All Monotheistic Religions hold the same values of human decency, ethical behaviour and they all preach goodness and condemn evil...their original founders all were Prophets of Allah of their time...what happened however is that after their deaths, many things were added to the Original teachings....

Many things also go inserted that were in the interest of the people who were in power and so whilst many of the basic values remained, many new customs and beliefs got added and so Allah kept on sending Prophets and Messengers with New Commandments to follow because of the greed and ignorance that had tainted the previous scriptures....

Many of these Major Prophets did give indications of future events and divine guidance that was to come in the future...these predictions were useful despite intentional changes made to the original guidance....

Paul made innovations to the original teachings of JESUS....so basically what most of them follow is "Pauline" Christianity and not the original teachings of Jesus....and the Kharajees (enemies of the Prophet and his revered family) made innovations in Islam....

I recommend that you read a book that has come out after some 30 years of research...."JESUS, the Prophet of Allah"....it will help explain to a student of Christianity many things about which he or she may be unaware.

Additionally....they should also read...Gospel of Barnabas - Barnabas was one of the 12 disciples of Jesus and the gospel was accepted as a canonical gospel in churches of Alexandria until 325 AD and then for political reasons the Nicene Council ordered that all original copies in the Hebrew Script be destroyed...an edict was passed that anyone in possession of this gospel will be put to death...however a Latin text has survived....People should read the "Shepherd of Hermas".....it will show them what the original teachings were.....the very first dictate is on TAWHID itself....

Gospel of Barnabas -Chapter 41, para 12, 13.....after God banished Satan, HE said to Adam and Eve who were both weeping to "Go forth from paradise and do penance"...

God said to them..."and let your hope not fail for I will send YOUR son in such wise that YOUR seed shall lift the dominion of Satan from off the human race; for he who shall come, MY MESSENGER, to him will I give all things.."...after this God hid Himself and the angel drove Adam and Eve, forth from paradise whereupon Adam turning around saw written above the gate....

'There is only ONE God and Muhamad is the Messenger of God".....whereupon weeping, Adam said:..." may it be pleasing to God, O ! MY Son, that thou come quickly and draw us out of misery...."

Observation: It is "YOUR" Son God says to Adam....and Adam acknowledges this too by saying "MY" Son.....and so what was the relationship established ? not the "Son of God" but that of Adam and Eve....and also the Shahada of the general body of muslims which carries the acknowledgement of Muhamad today but objectionable to the Kharajees,, is even confirmed in the Gospel itself long before even Muhamad SAW came as a warner to mankind....

Chapter 42, para 5,6,7 and 8

When people questioned Jesus.."who art thou? say in order that we may give testimony to those who sent us", JESUS replied...(pbuh) ..

" I am the voice that cries through all Judea and cries: PREPARE THE WAY FOR THE MESSENGER OF THE LORD..."

In ISAIAH it is written...

" The people said to Jesus, if thou art not the MESSIAH nor ELIJAH or any Prophet, wherefore do thou preach new doctrine and make thyself of more account than the MESSIAH?"

Jesus then answered..." The miracles which GOD worked by my hands show that I speak that which GOD wills, nor indeed do I make myself to be accounted as him of whom ye speak, for I am not worthy to unloose the ties of hosen or the larches of the shoes of the MESSENGER OF GOD WHOM YE CALL MESSIAH, who was made before me and shall come after me and shall bring the words of TRUTH, so that his faith shall have no end.."

JESUS then continued..." he will NOT come in your time but will come years after you, when my gospel shall be annulled, insomuch that there shall be scarcely a few faithful. At that time GOD will have MERCY on the world and so HE will send HIS MESSENGER over whose head will rest a white cloud, whereby he shall known as one ELECT of GOD and shall be by HIM manifested to the world...he shall come with great powers against ungodly and shall destroy idolatry upon earth...and it rejoices me because through him OUR GOD shall be known and GLORIFIED and shall be known to be true and he will EXECUTE vengeance against those who shall say that I am MORE THAN MAN..."

Now let us look at the OLD TESTAMENT (Torah XViii: 15 - 18 )

"The Lord, thy GOD will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me and unto him shall ye hearken...according to all that thou desire of the Lord, God said unto Jesus........

" I will raise them a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee and I will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him..."

So far all that we read above evidently points towards MUHAMAD !


Muhamad SAW is clearly foretold and GOD did tell the Israelites that HE would raise a Prophet from amongst their brethren...now the phrase "brethren of Israel" refers to the descendants of Ishmael - the revelations of the Prophets of Israelites were NOT made in the words as found in their scriptures but only their PURPORT which were delivered to the people in their own language afterwards...however the Holy Quran as revealed to the Prophet , word by word, was put into his mouth - he was an unlettered Prophet and so when God told Moses that HE will raise a prophet from among their brethren, there is no doubt after reading and cross referring all the evidence and argument given above, that the promised Prophet was from the Ishmaelites and not Israelites...

Now lets look at the Prophecy of Prophet Isaiah (Tranlated from the original Hebrew text) - 685 Jesaia cap 21:22/Isaiah xxi 7.

"he saw TWO riders..one of them was a rider upon an ass and the other a rider upon a camel...he hearkened diligently with much heed..." (Isaiah xxi 7)

Now the above passage is a faithful translation of the Hebrew Text but the English Bible reads..." he saw a chariot of asses and a chariot of camels etc..."

The vulgate Bible has this as follows..." he saw a chariot of two horsemen, a rider upon and ass and a rider upon a cemel....and so according to Prophet Isaiah, these two riders were Jesus and Muhamad because Jesus made his entry into Jerusalem riding an ass and Muhamad rode camels and a camel was the characteristic of convenience in arabia....

Song of Solomon..."his mouth is most sweet, yeah he is MUHAMED altogether lovely...this is my beloved and this is my friend...O ! daughter of Jerusalem....."

Prophecies in the New Testament: (The AHHMAD of MASSIAH) (Translated from the Original Greek Text) (John 14:15)

"If ye love me ye will keep my commandments"

Verse 16.."And I will pray to the Father and he shall give you another PARAKLETOS (Comforter) that he may be with you forever..."

Verse 25..." These things have I spoken unto you while yet abiding with you..."

Verse 26..." but the comforter (Parekletos0 which is the Spirit of Truth whom the father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I said unto you..."

JOHN 16: 7...."Nevertheless I tell you the truth...it is expedient for you that I go away for if I go not away, the comforter (Parekletos) will NOT come unto you...but if I go I will send him unto you...."

Verse 8..." and he when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin and righteousness and judgment..."

Verse 12..."I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye can not bear them now.."

Verse 13....when he the Spirit of Truth is come, he shall guide you all unto Truth for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK FOR HIMSELF BUT WHAT THINGS WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THESE HE SHALL SPEAK AND HE SHALL DECLARE UNTO YOU THE THINGS THAT ARE TO COME..."

Prophecies in Hindu Scriptures...

Bhavisya Purana, Parv 3, Khand 3, Adhya 3, Shalok 5-8

" A malecha (foreign speaking spiritual teacher) will appear with his companions. His name will be Muhamad....this Maha Dev Arab of angelic disposition will be the pride of mankind; dweller of the desert; an image of the most pious God, the biggest Lord...."

Atharva Veda.

" O ! people listen to this emphatically...the man of praise (Muhamad) will be raised amongst people, whose conveyances are camels and she camels...whose loftiness of position touches the heaven and lowers it...."

Prophecies in Parsee scriptures.

"when the Persians sink low in morality, a amn will be born in arabia whose followers will upset their throne, religion and everything else...the stiff necked ones of Persia will be overpowered and the Kaaba in which many Idols have been placed will be purged of idols and people will say their prayers facing towards kaaba and people will join them..." (This book has always been in the hands of the parsees and the original transcript was in Pahlavi and then translated into persian and then into English)

The Bible says in Chapter of matthew 27

Verse 41,42,43,46, and 47 - " Likewise also the chief priest mocking him (Jesus) and elders said..." he )Jesus) saved others...himself he cannot save. If he were the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross and we will believe him...he trusted in God, let him deliver him now, if he will have him, for he said, I am the son of the father... and about the ninth hour JESUS cried with a loud voice saying ELI ELI la'ma sabach'tha-ni? It means..."Eli Eli why hast thou forsaken me?...some of the people that stood there said this man is calling
Eliah "

Now many of them argue that the names ELIAH and ELI are names of God but a Christian Priest of St Paul Church of London named JB Glendon who is the author of "A Notebook on New and Old Testament of Bible" published in 1908 writes on page 427..."In the oldest and present language of Hebrew, the word ELI or ELIAH is NOT uttered in the meaning of God but it is showing that in the next and last time of the world someone will be nominated Elie or Eliah....so who was nominated by the Prophet of Islam in the final phase?

In July 1951 when a group of soviet archaelogists were digging in the valley of Kiev (Kohe Kaaf) they discovered scattered pieces of ancient wood touched by termites and this discovery made them dig deeper and they discovered another stony ancient wood further deep down in the earth...amongst these there was a block of wood, 14 knots long and 10 knots wide...now what puzzled these archaelogists most was the unchangeable shape, ineffectual of termites and that this piece had not scattered like the other pieces of wood, nor had they turned stoney....

Later on in 1952 they conducted more investigation and they concluded that this piece was part of the Prophet Noah's Ark.....they had observed some letters engraved on this piece which goes back to the most ancient language that is believed to have evolved on the surface of the earth....

In 1953 the digging operations complete, the Russian Government had formed a committee of seven scientists who were experts in archaelogy and lingistics ...there names are : Sawlot Naoev; Professor of Moscow University; Tanmova Kourov, Professor of Linguisitics at Kevenzo College; De Racon, Professor of Archaelogy at Lenin Institute; Mr Taumol Goru, Professor Cafezud College; Major Cottor, Stalin College; Ahmad Colad, Zitcomen Research Association; Professor Ifa Han Kheeno, Lu han College, Chin etc etc..

After some eight months of research and tudy of the discovery they had made and of the wood and the engravings and they made the following conclusions:

a) the block of wood was made of the same material which Prophet Noah's Ark was made of.

b) That Prophet Noah had placed this block of wood in his Ark for blessings and protection during his journey with his companions and family during the flood or deluge.

c) The engavings were in a semitic language which was translated by them and by an expert British Scientist, Aief Max, Professor of ancient tongue at manchester University, as follows:

" O ! my God, my helper, in your Mercy and generosity help me and for the sake of those holy souls; Muhamad, Elia, Shoppar; Shappair and Fatima who are all great and blessed.

The Universe is there for them; help me in their names...Only you can guide us to the STRAIGHT PATH..."

The arabic rendering of this semitic language is Muhamad, Ali, Hassan, Hussain and Fatima..... and this discovery referred to herein can be viewed at the Museum of Archaelogy in Moscow Russia and the translations has also been documented in the following newspapers...Weekly Mirror, UK 28/12/1953; STAR of Britain, London 1/54; Manchester Sunlight, manchester 23/1/54; London weekly Mirror, 1/2/54; Bathrah Najaf, Iraq 2/2/54 and Al Huda, Cairo 31/3/54 and the source is the Al Zahra Magazine also....

The miracle of Muhabilah also supports this notion....there are many Sunni/Sh'ia traditions/references supporting the authenticity of the Ahl al Bayt and their purification by Allah ....ofcourse many have claimed to be descendants of the house of the Prophet...many have tried to claim through even the Prophet's in laws to belong to the house....but IMAMAT is a divine institution and has been proclaimed by the Holy Prophet by the order of Allah Himself and so if Muhamad SAW chose Ali (as) then obviously he and his descendants are the Olil Amr mentioned in the Quran.

Over the years many have made false claims...infact many were the Imam's own children but these imposters have gone astray as per the covenant Allah made with Abraham, HIS Covenant reaches NOt the Unjust....

According to the Bible there were to be 12 princes :

The twelve rulers are commonly understood to refer to the twelve sons of Ishmael:

These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, 15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. 16 These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. Genesis 25:13-16

Several verses in the Quran speak about the Light of God and Rope of Imamat which is a continuous chain (Hablillah) since Hazrat Adam, through all the Prophets including, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and after him through the hereditary Imams..even if there are only two people left on this earth, the Imam must be present as Imamat is a perpetual phenomena.

In the exoteric Twelver corpus of hadith, we find this same theme repeated again and again - the need for an infallible guide !!!

The basic theology of Imamah is that all Shi'a sects agree upon: the need for an Infallible Guide,to show people the way towards Truth.

Ismailis believe that their Imam is their infallible guide !

Imam as-Sadiq said: "The Earth is never devoid of the Imam: whenever the believers advance too far, he turns them back, and whenever they fall short, he completes them." (Al-Kulayni Al-Kafi 1:178)

Imam as-Sadiq said: "I swear by Allah, that the Earth is never devoid of the hujjah. He teaches the permissible and the impermissible, and calls the people to the Path of God." (Al-Kulayni Al-Kafi 1:178

Praise belongs to Allah. We ask Him for help, and we believe in Him,and in Him we trust.

We seek refuge to Him from the evil of our souls and the sins of our deeds.

Verily there is no guide for the one whom
Allah leaves in stray, and there is none who leads astray the one whom Allah has guided..

"Seest thou not how Allah coineth a similitude a goodly saying as a goodly tree, its root set firm, its branches stretching into Heaven, Giving its fruits at every season, by permission of its Lord, Allah coineth the similitude for mankind in order that they may reflect" Quran 14:24, 25
[/b]

[agakhani]

I think some of you need to do more research....I need to understand why? and how this conclusion was drawn?

Be honest with you I lived in India and Pakistan but I should say that India is peace lover country than Pakistan, and of course there are big differences between Indian and Pakistani peoples temperament one is peace lover other is fighter.

that it was an error ( a hugh mistake) to create Pakistan? and that India is the world's best democracy?

[/b]

Neither I agree that creating Pakistan as a separate nation is big mistake nor I agree that India's democracy is best democracy in the world, matter of fact democracy in India is totally collapsed because of corrupted leaders and Pakistan's future seems very bright too me, after all it was created with the help and as per wish of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad shah.

Pundit Vedaprakash Upadhyai, a Hindu Professor, in his stunning book claims that the description of the 'AVATAR" found in the Holy Books of the Hindu religion, matches the Holy Prophet Muhammed (P.B.U.H.).

Yes, I read that book it is very controversial book most Muslim accepted his theory even Dr. Zakir Naik accepted too , but it has been criticized by many other scholars and be honest with you sister I personally don't agree with Pandit Vedprakash Upadhay theory because I rather accept the theory of our wonderful ginanic literature in which Mowlana Hazar Ali (S.A.) quotes as a ' NAKALANKI AVATAR' not Prophet MUhammed (S.A.)
I hope I answered your all question politely, no hard feeling sister and of course I don't want to get into nitty gritty

[shiraz.virani]

Gujarat!!? Sister, It was started after the Muslims rioters burned Hindu pilgrims trains and killed innocents pilgrims in Ghodhra.

I wanna correct you over here, it wasnt muslims who burned the train or killed innocent hindu brothers in godhra kaand....It was certain elements of vishwa hindu parishad and Bajrang Dal who planned all this......Brother agakhani there are soooo many proofs regarding godhra and riots in gujarat where people from vishwa hindu parishad and Bajrang Dal not just killed and raped muslim woman, they did the same with their own hindu sisters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfnTl_Fwvbo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9KlevWeYrE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DRS0WyG ... ure=relmfu

theres much more to this....Plus do you know a night before the riots in gujarat the CM modi called all the top cops and advised them to let hindu's do whatever they want for its high time that muslims should learn a lesson ....Well this is not me whos saying this brother....Its the top cop who exposed modi...And just wanna let you know that he is not a muslim

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/modi- ... ff/780165/

Before blaming hindus/muslims agakhani bhai you should understand that indians do not want war/violence...All the religions in india want peace, its just certain elements who are politically motivated are behind this.

I noticed that whenever the riots broke up it is always started by Muslims first

Wrong !!!.....Riots are always....always politically motivated, be it in pakistan where talibanis[fundamentalist] butchered our innocent ismailis to show force or godhra kaand.....explosion in mosques, temples and so on !!!

whether it was killing cows in front of Hindu temples intentionally or burning the train in revenge of BABARI MASJID, by the way there are few other Indian states where more Muslims are killed in comparison of Gujarat whenever Hindu-Muslim riots broke up.

You're right brother certain elements does not want the peace and progress of certain countries.....these elements are funded by the western/middle eastern agencies and to a certain extent from the opposition parties who assure them protection and power.

Do you know majority of politicians in India and Pakistan [be it hindus/muslims] are wanted in either for murder/rape or extortion charges ??

[zina.khan]

Ak....Muslims need to understand what is Nooran Allah Noor concept...they also easily overlook the Noor e Panjtan Pak...

The philosophy of "Das Avtars" should thus be explained and taken in the Light of Islamic principles...

keeping in mind Allah's NOOR whose lineal descent is from even before Creation itself...even before the Biblical Adam....(many seem to also believe that "Avtar" means "God incarnate"...not necessarily ! it also implies an era or period or "yug" - like now it is what is known as "kalyug"..)

The concept of Noor en Allah Noor is positively the greatest of all histories - a concept that is unique and mysterious and not easy for all to understand in its correct perspective...

Thro' Creation and ages of "Karans", "Kalaps" upto the last Kaliyug of the "Yugas"...it is a grand history..

On this earth it began with "Mach Avtar"...then the LIGHT at the Sinai Mountain on a Tree for Moses to witness OR in the "garb" of Shree Ram and Krishnah or Shree Budh (Adam).....but Garb of each of them is not the same...the Light is one and the same...and that is that of what is also known as Al e Imran thro' Muhamad (saw)...

Unfortunately man looks at things thro' his own material vision...they visualize colours; size; shapes and forms...they think in terms of caste, creed, and sects...but they should instead visualize all this including muslims and others in terms of "Chaitanya Noor" (Light of God)...and everyone cannot experience this and that is why Allah does say...

"He guides unto HIS Noor whomsoever HE Wills.."

To experience the above one needs the Grace of Allah...the divine Guide has its own plans and missions...the visions are not materialistic...but spiritual, exclsuive and unique...these visions are not limited nor bound because Allah says HE is the LIGHT of the heavens and the earth and so HIS LIGHT is beyond time and space...beyond cause or causation..it is independent to appear and act in the manner IT desires...

Thus to even understand the above, one cannot do so at the Shariati level...it is understood better at the level of Haqiqa and Marifa...

And then only you can appreciate the divine missions of the "Avtars" regardless of whether it may seem usual or unusual to human thinking or outlook...

Jesus has also said this over and over that Muhamad will be the "elect of God" and God shall be by him, manifested to the World and he will execute vengeance against idol worshippers - then Jesus said that through him "OUR God" will be glorified and Jesus has referred to Muhamad as the Messiah or Saviour ..

Additionally the Quran re inforces this in Sura al Saff - verse 6 and the Gospel of St John - chapters 14-16....then read this Sura

"Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran above all people- a line of descendants, one succeeding the other; and Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 3:33,34).....and now read this too...

Imam Shafii' has said the following:

"When I saw different schools of thought directing people toward the seas of ignorance and deviation, I boarded the ark of salvation in the Name of Allah.

This arc is verily crystallized in the "ahl al-bayt" of the Seal of the Prophets, Mustafa (s)."

Among very famous traditions in which the "ahl al-bayt" have been resembled to the ark of salvation, reference can be made to the famous "Ishbah tradition" which has been narrated from the Holy Prophet (s) by Abu Hurayrah `Abdul-Rahman bin Sakhar (d 59 A.H.).

"When Almighty Allah created Adam, the father of mankind, and breathed His spirit into him, Adam looked to the right hand side of the empyrean. There he saw five figures in the form of silhouettes engaged in prostration and genuflection. He asked:

"God, have you created any one from the dust before me?"

God replied: "No." Adam said, "So who are these five figures which I see resembling my own shape and form?"

God answered, "These are five of your offspring. If it were not for them, I would have not created you.

They are five people whose names are derived from My Own.

If it were not for them, I would have not created paradise or hell, the heavens and the earth, the skies and the lands, the angels, the human beings and the jinn.

I am "Mahmud" and this Muhammad. I am "Aala" and this is `Ali. I am "Fatir" and this is Fatimah, I am "Ihsan" and this is Hasan. I am "Muhsin" and this is Husayn.

By My Glory, whoever bears even an atom's weight of grudge against them will be cast into hell.

O Adam! They are My chosen ones. For them, I will save or cast others to perdition. If you want anything from me, you should resort to these five people."

The Holy Prophet (s) said: "We serve as the ark of salvation. Whoever holds fast to this ark will reach salvation and whoever deviates from it will be cast into perdition.

Whoever wants Allah to grant him something should resort to the `ahl al-bayt'."

This tradition has been narrated by Shaykh al-Islam Hamu'i in the first chapter of "Fara'id al-Samtayn" and Khatib Khwarazmi in "Manaqib" 252 (c.f. "al-Ghadir" 300/2).

The Ashbah tradition has been narrated by `Allamah Amini in another part of the al-Ghadir" (301/7) quoting Abul-Fath Muhammad bin `Ali al-Natanzi in "Alfaz".

And so think of Muhamad and Ali as an Light ! ....(Ak..who was the Manifest Imam when Sura Yaseen was revealed ? would you know? Ali's (as) Imamat had not been revealed as yet !!!)

The divine attributes are divided into TWO groups namely Jamali and Jalali and so Naboowat represents the Jamali attributes and Imamat represents the Jalali attributes !

Together they represent a simile of God's love....Nabi has been referred to as " Rehmatu lil Alimeen"...Nabi received the quran....Rasool conveyed it and established the laws....Imam is the Implementor !

"O ! Ali your flesh is my flesh and your blood is my blood !"

When Imam Ali was asked about his relationship with the Prophet...he said..."just as light is related to light" and so they are two sides of the same coin...

I am sure this will challenge you to atleast ponder now and then tie up your own ginanic interpretation more strongly....there is no distinction within the luminosity (Light) and what is from HIS Dhat is eternal and divine...what is from HIS Creative attribute is for a "term appointed" and so when one talks of divine, he or she needs to be careful what exactly one is referring to as Islam forbids any physical concepts or pursuit and even the Imam has said so ....and even Allah makes no distinction amongst HIS Prophets.....Allah isn't talking physically here as all prophets came at different times....they looked different...they brought their own "Sunnah" etc....the distinction is not to be made to the LIGHT or else it becomes SHIRK !!!

Thank you ! and bye bye ![/b]

[kmaherali]

How movies embraced Hinduism (without you even noticing)

Interstellar’s box office total is $622,932,412 and counting. It is the eighth highest-grossing film of the year and has spawned an endless raft of thinkpieces testing the validity of its science and applauding the innovation of its philosophy. But it is not so new. The idea that propels the plot – there is a universal super-consciousness that transcends time and space, and in which all human life is connected – has been around for about 3,000 years. It is Vedic.

When the film’s astronaut hero (Matthew McConaughey), declares that the mysterious and all-knowing “they” who created a wormhole near Saturn through which he travels to save mankind – dissolving his sense of material reality in the process – are in fact “us”, he is simply repeating the central notion of the Upanishads, India’s oldest philosophical texts. These hold that individual human minds are merely brief reflections within a cosmic one.

More...
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/de ... d-hinduism