A non-Ismaili askes about certain passages from the old dua

[schatoor]

A non-Ismaili somehow got this link from somewhere; http://www.ismaili.net/Source/hbibi1.html

I would first of all like to ask who this document wrote. A lawyer? Was it approved my Mawlana Sultan Muhammad Shah?
Second; a part of the old khoja dua can be read from here;

Having said the above, keep the rosary on the ground and repeat the following:


True declaration - God is Holy. Thanks to God. Praise to God. There is no God but God. God is great. There is no might or power except that of God, the High, the Great, the Merciful, the Magnanimous, the Good, the Great Holy Providence (Who is) in the district of Chaldea, in Persia, in human form, descended from the seventy-seven Patras (ancestors) and who is the forty-eighth Imam (Spiritual Chief) the tenth Naklanki Avtar, our Master, Aga Sultan Mahomed Shah, the Giver.


(Then) you are to prostrate. Then say, "Hak Shah" (i.e. O Shah, Thou art true) and repeat (the names of) the ancestors of Vishnu and of the successors of the Shah.


(Names of) Vishnu's ancestors:

He is pretty disturbed by this. I kinda have an hard time explaining our believes.
What sould I say? I'm having this discussion here; http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php ... ntry527236 .
Help me pleace!

A question, what is that document doing there anyway? People have open access to it.

[Admin]

The document is public. You can order a copy from any university inter-library loan.

Admin
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[star_munir]

Ismailis are Haqiqati.How can Shariati understand the religion of Haqiqati??
Its just like a one class student can not understand the lesson of chemistry and will think wrong if some one will say that h2o is water as he dont know that h20 is chemical formula of water? Its not possible to make them understand about this issue. You can raise many issues about thier faith like why women are forced to wear hijab and why do they do terrorism in the name of religion etc?
The conditions in the past were diffenet from that of now. In past at the time of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah many muslim leaders knew the fact that ismailis believe Him God and Avtar and there was good understanding.This was the time pre partition and before the division of Subcontinent into India and Pakitan. Now mostly muslim leaders are very much narrowminded and extremist and there is not any tolerance in them.

[schatoor]

Ah yes, shariat, triqat, haqiqat and marifat. We Ismaili's are (supposedly?) on haqiqat.
Most definitly, I have had discussions with other muslims about things like the hijab. There is no reasoning with some people. Some are downright donkeys!
But are "we" on haqiqat just because we are born Ismaili's? And are others on less the Haqiqat just because they are not Ismaili's?
No doubt, Ismailism is haqiqat. But how many of my Ismaili brothers have understood Ismailism? I'm not sure if I have understood it completly.
No, to be on haqiqat, you got to work, Ismaili or not.
I have been to some non-Ismaili Muslim sites. Reading those sites I came to understand that there are alot of non-Ismaili muslims who have most definitly gone beyond shariat. So have similar ideas to ours. Some things write are really worth reading because they give you insight in Islam you didn't have previously. I'll list some sites which I have found most interesting:

www.al-islam.org (a shia Ithna Ashari site but one with an esoteric outlook on Islam, very interesting!)
www.muslimwakeup.com
www.free-minds.org (I don't agree with every thing they say here, but it has some interesting stuff)
www.ijtihad.org

The point is, do not be so narrow minded that you think that every non-Ismaili out there is on shariat and thus it is not worth explaining our faith to them. It's a wrong attitude.
Also, I think that not every one who is Ismaili is on haqiqat. Infact, most just do as they are told. Or they think that Ismailism is "flexible" and that they can do what ever they want, cos you know, Ismailis are on haqiqat.... right?
It's not that simple. You get to haqiqat by searching for the truth. And without a doubt, Ismailism is VERY stimulating to individuals to search. As Mawlana Hazir Imam says, Ismailism is an esoteric religion and thus meaning is very important to us. But you have to search for the meaning. How many of us even know the meaning of our dua?
The people of the above site did their search. Most definitly they have progressed beyond shariat. And the argument that "Ho, they are on shariat anyway so lets not bother" is wrong.

[shamsu]

Ya Aly Madad,

That Imam's deen is the only deen that is ruhani and all other faiths are jismani is mentioned in the farmans of Imam SMS.
You will never understand this not until you sit in bandagi and experience what Imam is and what he does for you.

Another thing just occured to me.

Consider an apple

Shariat ----peeling the apple

Tariqat-----The manner in which you do the peeling

Haqiqat-----Taking a bite

Marifat-----Enjoying the apple and assimilating it in your being.

I know this example does not entirely explain these 4 but at least it gets us started in thinking and reflecting.

Shams

[kmaherali]

I have been to some non-Ismaili Muslim sites. Reading those sites I came to understand that there are alot of non-Ismaili muslims who have most definitly gone beyond shariat.

If these Muslims have truly transcended the Shariati- which after all is a state of mind, then they will know that:

- Islam is pluralistic and that there can be many interpretations within its fold. In its broadest sense it encompasses all humanity.
- There are matters that are Zaheri and there are matters that are Batuni for any given interpretation. A matter which is Zaheri in one context or time can be Batuni in another context or time.
- That it is wrong to pass judgment on others.

If they have not transcended, then it is futile to even talk with them.

In either situation silence is the best response for this particular question.

[schatoor]

shamsu: if Mawlana Sultan Muhammad Shah said so, then I stand corrected. But I would like to read the farman my self. Can you be more specific on the farman in which SMS said this?
A question; some time ago I asked about Rumi on this board. SMS said that Rumi him self was not an Ismaili but he was an disiple of an Ismaili. Yet, his name is mentioned in several farmans where example is given of men who reached an very high state.
If only Ismailis can get to haqiqat, how do you explain this?
Don't get me wrong, there is and was no faith even remotly similar to Ismailism. Ismaili's have direct access to the light of Allah.

Ya Ali Madad.

[shamsu]

schatoor it is on page 170 third paragraph farman number 65 Kalaame Imame Mubeen Part 1

And Haqiqat can be reached by anyone as per Imam SMS Farman from KIM. (I think this is the Farman where Imam SMS states that "Je koi cchahe and koshish kare tae tya ponchi sake cche")

Shams