Heaven and Hell
Heaven and Hell
I just wanted to know what we Ismailis believe about heaven and hell. Anyone with information would be greatly appreciated.
There is a prophetic hadith which states:
"Hell is veiled in delights, and heaven in Hardships and miseries."
The following anecdote which was construed as a joke reflects the above wisdom.
Bill Gates Meets His Programmer
Bill Gates suddenly dies and finds himself face to face with God. God stands over him and says, "Well Bill, I'm really confused on this one. It's a tough decision. I'm not sure whether to send you to Heaven or Hell. After all, you helped society enormously by putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly Windows '95 among other indiscretions. I believe I'll do something I've never done before; I'll let you decide where you want to go."
Bill pushed up his glasses, looked up at God and replied, "Could you briefly explain the difference between the two?" Looking slightly puzzled, God said, "Better yet, why don't I let you visit both places briefly, then you can make your decision. Which do you choose to see first, Heaven or Hell?"
Bill played with his pocket protector for a moment, then looked back at God and said, "I think I'll try Hell first." So, with a flash of lightning and a cloud of smoke, Bill Gates went to Hell.
When he materialized in Hell, Bill looked around. It was beautiful and clean, a bit warm, with sandy beaches and tall mountains, clear skies, pristine water, and beautiful women frolicking about. A smile came across Bill's face as he took in a deep breath of the clean air. "This is great," he thought, "if this is Hell, I can't wait to see heaven."
Within seconds of his thought, another flash of lightning and a cloud of smoke appeared, and Bill was off to Heaven. Heaven was a place high above the clouds, where angels were drifting about playing their harps and singing in a beautiful chorus. It was a very nice place, Bill thought, but not as enticing as Hell.Bill looked up, yelled for God, told him his decision and was sent to Hell for eternity.
Time passed, and God decided to check on the late billionaire to see how he was progressing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill Gates shackled to a wall in a dark cave amid bone thin men and tongues of fire, being burned and tortured by demons.
"So, how is everything going?" God asked.
Bill responded with a cracking voice filled with anguish and disappointment, "This is awful! It's nothing like the Hell I visited the first time!! I can't believe this is happening! What happened to the other place...with the beaches and the mountains and the beautiful women?"
"That was the demo," replied God.
***
There have been numerous other discussions on this subject in this forum under numerous threads. To access them click the 'Search' link mentioned at the top of this page just below the red label 'Welocme to The Heritage Web Site'. Then type the words 'hell' and 'heaven' and search for both terms.
"Hell is veiled in delights, and heaven in Hardships and miseries."
The following anecdote which was construed as a joke reflects the above wisdom.
Bill Gates Meets His Programmer
Bill Gates suddenly dies and finds himself face to face with God. God stands over him and says, "Well Bill, I'm really confused on this one. It's a tough decision. I'm not sure whether to send you to Heaven or Hell. After all, you helped society enormously by putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly Windows '95 among other indiscretions. I believe I'll do something I've never done before; I'll let you decide where you want to go."
Bill pushed up his glasses, looked up at God and replied, "Could you briefly explain the difference between the two?" Looking slightly puzzled, God said, "Better yet, why don't I let you visit both places briefly, then you can make your decision. Which do you choose to see first, Heaven or Hell?"
Bill played with his pocket protector for a moment, then looked back at God and said, "I think I'll try Hell first." So, with a flash of lightning and a cloud of smoke, Bill Gates went to Hell.
When he materialized in Hell, Bill looked around. It was beautiful and clean, a bit warm, with sandy beaches and tall mountains, clear skies, pristine water, and beautiful women frolicking about. A smile came across Bill's face as he took in a deep breath of the clean air. "This is great," he thought, "if this is Hell, I can't wait to see heaven."
Within seconds of his thought, another flash of lightning and a cloud of smoke appeared, and Bill was off to Heaven. Heaven was a place high above the clouds, where angels were drifting about playing their harps and singing in a beautiful chorus. It was a very nice place, Bill thought, but not as enticing as Hell.Bill looked up, yelled for God, told him his decision and was sent to Hell for eternity.
Time passed, and God decided to check on the late billionaire to see how he was progressing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill Gates shackled to a wall in a dark cave amid bone thin men and tongues of fire, being burned and tortured by demons.
"So, how is everything going?" God asked.
Bill responded with a cracking voice filled with anguish and disappointment, "This is awful! It's nothing like the Hell I visited the first time!! I can't believe this is happening! What happened to the other place...with the beaches and the mountains and the beautiful women?"
"That was the demo," replied God.
***
There have been numerous other discussions on this subject in this forum under numerous threads. To access them click the 'Search' link mentioned at the top of this page just below the red label 'Welocme to The Heritage Web Site'. Then type the words 'hell' and 'heaven' and search for both terms.
Nasir al-Din Tusi, a great Ismaili Dai dedicated a whole chapter on this subject in his book 'Paradise of Submission". The chapter is: Tasawwur 15 Concerning Paradise and paradises, Hell and hells, purgatories and the paths.
Below are a few paragraphs from the chapter.
[§140] However, if [the soul] has been inclined in all aspects towards the acquisition of sensory pleasures, it will inevitably remain in the darkness of perverted fantasy and erroneous supposition when its senses, which are the means of perceiving these sensory pleasures, are taken away from it; so everything that befalls it will be unsuitable. The likeness [of such a soul] is as a man who is half-slain, both of whose eyes have been torn out, whose nose, tongue, hands, legs and all organs have been severed, and who lies there, neither alive nor dead. He is overpowered and overwhelmed by imagining those pleasures which he could have had by means of these limbs and organs, and overtaken by eternal despair because he will never be able to attain them. His situation gives rise to the greatest remorse and repentance. He bears witness to the meaning of [the saying], 'Verily, these are your actions which recoil against you.' However much he wishes to be permitted to return once more to the world to do that which he should do, he will surely not be allowed. All of his supplications and implorations - [as in the Qur'anic verse, 'Could we return [to earthly life], that we may do differently than we did" (7:53) - will be of no avail. That indeed is the real hell. We seek refuge from this in God.
[§141] Both Paradise and Hell are products of man's mental conceptions (tasawwur) and such conceptions are of no more than three categories: sensory (hissf), psychical (nafsi) and intellectual ('aqlt) conceptions. If his mental conception begins [at the level] of sensory perception and proceeds no further, then such a conception makes of itself a sensible hell for him within his soul, his soul being in its very own hell. If his mental conception begins at the psychical level and proceeds no further, that conception will effect in him a glimpse of his paradise within his soul, his soul sensing the effect of its inner heaven. If his mental conception proceeds from intellectual knowledge and remains at that level, this conception will become a real paradise within the soul for him, his soul being in its very own paradise.
[§142] The real Paradise is also the upright intellect ('aql-i mustaqlm) - that is to say, [the reason] united with Divine Volition (amr), so that, for example, one ascends from the senses to the estimative imagination (wahmi), from imagination to soul (nafsi) and from soul to intellect. [In other words], one's sensuality is converted into estimative imagination, then into soul and ultimately into intellect, [until it] comes to rest content with the gnosis of pure intellect, 'returning to his Lord pleased and well-contented' (89:28). The real Hell, on the other hand, is that of of the perverted intellect ('aql-i mankus), that is to say, the reason which is separated from Divine Volition, so that, for instance, [it descends from] the intellectual to the spiritual, from the spiritual to the estimative imagination, and from the estimative imagination to the senses. [Hence], his intellect descends [to the level of] soul, then the imagination, then to sense perception, and from there it falls into the Inferno and the most horrid place.
Below are a few paragraphs from the chapter.
[§140] However, if [the soul] has been inclined in all aspects towards the acquisition of sensory pleasures, it will inevitably remain in the darkness of perverted fantasy and erroneous supposition when its senses, which are the means of perceiving these sensory pleasures, are taken away from it; so everything that befalls it will be unsuitable. The likeness [of such a soul] is as a man who is half-slain, both of whose eyes have been torn out, whose nose, tongue, hands, legs and all organs have been severed, and who lies there, neither alive nor dead. He is overpowered and overwhelmed by imagining those pleasures which he could have had by means of these limbs and organs, and overtaken by eternal despair because he will never be able to attain them. His situation gives rise to the greatest remorse and repentance. He bears witness to the meaning of [the saying], 'Verily, these are your actions which recoil against you.' However much he wishes to be permitted to return once more to the world to do that which he should do, he will surely not be allowed. All of his supplications and implorations - [as in the Qur'anic verse, 'Could we return [to earthly life], that we may do differently than we did" (7:53) - will be of no avail. That indeed is the real hell. We seek refuge from this in God.
[§141] Both Paradise and Hell are products of man's mental conceptions (tasawwur) and such conceptions are of no more than three categories: sensory (hissf), psychical (nafsi) and intellectual ('aqlt) conceptions. If his mental conception begins [at the level] of sensory perception and proceeds no further, then such a conception makes of itself a sensible hell for him within his soul, his soul being in its very own hell. If his mental conception begins at the psychical level and proceeds no further, that conception will effect in him a glimpse of his paradise within his soul, his soul sensing the effect of its inner heaven. If his mental conception proceeds from intellectual knowledge and remains at that level, this conception will become a real paradise within the soul for him, his soul being in its very own paradise.
[§142] The real Paradise is also the upright intellect ('aql-i mustaqlm) - that is to say, [the reason] united with Divine Volition (amr), so that, for example, one ascends from the senses to the estimative imagination (wahmi), from imagination to soul (nafsi) and from soul to intellect. [In other words], one's sensuality is converted into estimative imagination, then into soul and ultimately into intellect, [until it] comes to rest content with the gnosis of pure intellect, 'returning to his Lord pleased and well-contented' (89:28). The real Hell, on the other hand, is that of of the perverted intellect ('aql-i mankus), that is to say, the reason which is separated from Divine Volition, so that, for instance, [it descends from] the intellectual to the spiritual, from the spiritual to the estimative imagination, and from the estimative imagination to the senses. [Hence], his intellect descends [to the level of] soul, then the imagination, then to sense perception, and from there it falls into the Inferno and the most horrid place.
Pir Nasir-i Khusraw on the Gateway and Key to Paradise
Chapter Five of Pir Nasir-i Khusraw’s Wajh-i Din
Introduced and translated by Rukhsana Ali
INTRODUCTION TO NASIR KHUSRAW AND WAJH-I DIN
Abu Mo’in Hamid al-Din Nasir ibn Khusraw is an important figure in the development of Ismaili philosophy. Born into a politically connected family, Khusraw was well-educated both in the sciences and humanities. He pursued every field of knowledge, intellectual, as well as traditional. He memorized the Holy Qur’an and became an expert in tradition and in the interpretation of the Holy Qur’an. Besides Islamic literature, he also studied the new and the Old Testament, and books of other religions thoroughly. He studied the Al-Magest of Ptolemy, Geometry of Euclid, Alchemy, Physics, Logic, Music, Mathematics, Medicine, Astronomy, Astrology, etc. He excelled in literature and knew Hebrew, and Sanskrit, besides Arabic, Persian, Turkish and Greek. He studied the philosophy of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and the epistles of Kindi, Farabi and Ibn Sina (Avicenna).
Having spent most of his life occupying prestigious positions within the Saljuq court, Khusraw converted to the Ismaili faith at the age of forty after careful study. He spent the rest of his life writing and advocating for the Ismaili faith, and eventually was forced into exile by Sunni authorities.
As the leader of the Ismaili da‘wa in Khurasan, Nasir Khusraw produced a number of prose works on Ismaili doctrine. To date, six of these works have been edited from manuscripts and several have been translated, at least partially, into Western languages. The six edited works are Gushayish wa rahayish (Unfettering and Setting Free), Jami‘ al-hikmatayn (Uniting the Two Wisdoms), Khwan al-ikhwan (The Feast of the Brethren), Shish fasl (Six Chapters, i.e., the prose Rawshana’i-nama), Wajh-i din (The Face of Religion) and Zad al-musafirin (The Pilgrims’ Provisions).
In the Wajh-i din, Nasir Khusraw masterfully applies ta’wil to the system of ideas and concepts propounded in earlier Fatimid texts. In it he “provides his most straightforward esoteric interpretation (ta’wil) of a variety of religious regulations and rituals, giving the inner (batin) meaning of certain externals (zahir) of religion. The book’s 51 sections include, for example, his ta’wil of certain verses from the Qur’an, the call to prayer (azan), ablutions for prayer (wadu), the assigned times of prayer, the movements of praying, alms for the poor (zakat), the pilgrimage to the Ka‘ba in Mecca (hajj) and certain prescribed punishments. Following Ismaili hermeneutics, he shows the parallels between the structure of the physical world and that of the spiritual world, and between the human body and the human soul.” [1] As an example of the former, is his explanation of the gateway to Paradise and its key, the translation of which is given here.
ON THE GATEWAY AND KEY TO PARADISE
This statue of the Ismaili da’i and intellectual giant Pir Nasir Khusraw stands in his memory in Badakhshan.
Whatever we say is not due to any strength or power of our own. Rather, power and strength belong to Allah, and whatever is good in our speech is due to the wali (the Imam of the time) of Allah. Mistakes and errors are due to the weakness of our souls.
By the generosity of the Imam of the time, we say that Paradise in truth is the Intellect, and the Gateway of paradise is the Prophet (peace and salutation be upon him) during his time, and his wasi, his rank, and the Imam of the time during his age. The Key to the gateway of paradise is the utterance of the phrase, La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan rasul Allah.
He who recites this shahadah with sincerity has found the key to the gateway of paradise, and he who accepts the shahadah with sincerity has become attached to the Prophet, just as he who finds the key to a door is thereby able to open it. And he who utters this shahadah with sincerity and becomes attached to the Prophet enters Paradise, as, for him who reaches the door with the key, the door opens.
To substantiate our statement that the intellect is paradise, we say that the comfort and ease and security enjoyed by human beings, comes from the universal intellect (aql-i kulli). Wise persons suffer less in the world for no worldly grief can approach them, and profit and loss of the world do not give them fear and anxiety. The foolish, however, are destroyed by their grief over the loss of property and sin and suffering, and due to greed for (things of) the world. From the partial intellect which human beings have received from Allah the Exalted, much of the pain which animals suffer due to their having no intellect, has been lifted from human beings. Thereby stands the proof of the statement that the universal intellect (aql-i kulli) is in reality paradise, because all the bounties and comforts in the world are due to it. Thus the wise person is closer (to the universal intellect), and he who is closer to the intellect is thereby closer to paradise and is the gateway to paradise, in the same manner as the chosen Prophet (that is, Prophet Muhammad) was closer to the universal intellect than all the other creatures (of the world).
Do you not see that the God, the Exalted, commanded him (the Prophet) to teach knowledge to the people? And with regard to the Prophet being the gateway to paradise, no Muslim doubts (the truth of) this. Thus it is true that paradise in reality is the (universal) intellect.
To substantiate our statement that the Prophet is the gateway to paradise, we say that the door to a place is that single opening without which no one can enter therein. It is a reality that no one can reach paradise except that person who obeys the Prophet and who is close to him, and who accepts his farmans and submits to his word and deed, for obedience to God, the Exalted, is (comprised of) obedience to the Prophet. As God, the Exalted, has said:
“Whosoever obeys the Messenger, obeys God.” (Qur’an 4:80)
Similarly, every prophet, in his own time, has been the gateway to paradise, potentially. For this reason, by obeying him and acting upon his shari‘ah (religious law) with knowledge, people can reach paradise. He who accepts the shari‘ ah of the Prophet without the knowledge of the inner meaning or ta’wil finds the gateway to paradise closed whereas he who acts with knowledge (that is, of the inner meaning of shari‘ah) finds the gateway to paradise open. For God, the Exalted says:
“Then those that feared their Lord shall be driven in companies into paradise, till, when they come thither, and its gates are opened. And its keepers will say to them, ‘Peace be upon you! Well you have fared, enter in, to dwell forever’.” (Qur’an 39:73)
Since He says that the gates of paradise were opened, it is evident from this verse that when they came to the gates of paradise, (they found) these closed and subsequently they were opened to them. The meaning of this verse is that all the divine laws of the prophets are concealed in symbols and similes and the salvation of the people lies in the uncovering of them; like a closed door, which, when it is opened, offers people a refuge, and food and drink. When the gateway to paradise is closed then the door to hell will be opened. Thus God Exalted says:
“Then the unbelievers will be driven in companies into hell, till, when they come thither, its gates are opened.” (Qur’an 39:71)
The opening of the gateway to paradise is in the inner meaning or ta’wil of the Book (that is the Qur’an) and the shari‘ah. The possessor of the ta’wil is the wasi of every prophet; and with the opening of the gateway to paradise the door of hell closes. Thus the gateway to paradise is the Prophet, and the opener of it is his wasi (Ali), and (after him), the Imam of the time for the muminin (believers).
Thus having established that the Prophet is the gateway to paradise and his wasi the opener of that gateway, we will discuss the key to the door of paradise and substantiate our statement that the profession of the shahadah (la ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan rasul Allah) is the key to the gateway of paradise. We say that a key is that thing without which one does not desire to approach a closed door in order to open it. It is for this reason that whoever accepted the shahadah came towards Prophet Muhammad, the Messenger of God, and whoever accepts the shahadah, the Prophet has promised paradise for him, as is recorded in the hadith (tradition):
Whoever said, “La ilaha illa Allah” with a pure heart, entered paradise.
Thus this hadith is a proof that the profession of the shahadah is the key for the gateway to paradise, so that those who find it will enter paradise, while those who do not will fail to attain it.
The kalmah, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan rasul Allah,” is composed of two testimonies, just as a key is made up of two separate parts joined together: the body of the key and its teeth. The profession of the shahadah by the believer is like the turning of the key in the lock by the opener, so that thereby the gateway may open.
Thus we say that the Prophet is the gateway to paradise which is closed, and the key to this gateway is the shahadah. The believer holds the key, and the Imam of the time is the mover of that key in the hand of the believer in order that the gateway may be opened. What God has said to His Messenger furnishes the proof of the truth of these words:
“Say! Our Lord will bring us all together, then He will open among us with truth, And He is the Opener, the Wise.” (Qur’an 34:25)
By this verse He means that when the people accept the religion of the Prophet, they will be brought together with the Prophet. Then the possessor of the inner meaning, the ta’wil, will open the knot of the religious law (shari‘ah) with the ta’wil of the shari‘ah, so that the believer may understand what was (truly) meant by the shari‘ah which the prophet had laid down, and the similitudes which were coined, so that the believers may act upon it (the shari‘ah) with insight.
We have explained what is Paradise, the Gateway to Paradise, and the Key to the Gateway of Paradise, according to the understanding of my day.
http://simerg.com/literary-readings/pir ... -paradise/
Chapter Five of Pir Nasir-i Khusraw’s Wajh-i Din
Introduced and translated by Rukhsana Ali
INTRODUCTION TO NASIR KHUSRAW AND WAJH-I DIN
Abu Mo’in Hamid al-Din Nasir ibn Khusraw is an important figure in the development of Ismaili philosophy. Born into a politically connected family, Khusraw was well-educated both in the sciences and humanities. He pursued every field of knowledge, intellectual, as well as traditional. He memorized the Holy Qur’an and became an expert in tradition and in the interpretation of the Holy Qur’an. Besides Islamic literature, he also studied the new and the Old Testament, and books of other religions thoroughly. He studied the Al-Magest of Ptolemy, Geometry of Euclid, Alchemy, Physics, Logic, Music, Mathematics, Medicine, Astronomy, Astrology, etc. He excelled in literature and knew Hebrew, and Sanskrit, besides Arabic, Persian, Turkish and Greek. He studied the philosophy of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and the epistles of Kindi, Farabi and Ibn Sina (Avicenna).
Having spent most of his life occupying prestigious positions within the Saljuq court, Khusraw converted to the Ismaili faith at the age of forty after careful study. He spent the rest of his life writing and advocating for the Ismaili faith, and eventually was forced into exile by Sunni authorities.
As the leader of the Ismaili da‘wa in Khurasan, Nasir Khusraw produced a number of prose works on Ismaili doctrine. To date, six of these works have been edited from manuscripts and several have been translated, at least partially, into Western languages. The six edited works are Gushayish wa rahayish (Unfettering and Setting Free), Jami‘ al-hikmatayn (Uniting the Two Wisdoms), Khwan al-ikhwan (The Feast of the Brethren), Shish fasl (Six Chapters, i.e., the prose Rawshana’i-nama), Wajh-i din (The Face of Religion) and Zad al-musafirin (The Pilgrims’ Provisions).
In the Wajh-i din, Nasir Khusraw masterfully applies ta’wil to the system of ideas and concepts propounded in earlier Fatimid texts. In it he “provides his most straightforward esoteric interpretation (ta’wil) of a variety of religious regulations and rituals, giving the inner (batin) meaning of certain externals (zahir) of religion. The book’s 51 sections include, for example, his ta’wil of certain verses from the Qur’an, the call to prayer (azan), ablutions for prayer (wadu), the assigned times of prayer, the movements of praying, alms for the poor (zakat), the pilgrimage to the Ka‘ba in Mecca (hajj) and certain prescribed punishments. Following Ismaili hermeneutics, he shows the parallels between the structure of the physical world and that of the spiritual world, and between the human body and the human soul.” [1] As an example of the former, is his explanation of the gateway to Paradise and its key, the translation of which is given here.
ON THE GATEWAY AND KEY TO PARADISE
This statue of the Ismaili da’i and intellectual giant Pir Nasir Khusraw stands in his memory in Badakhshan.
Whatever we say is not due to any strength or power of our own. Rather, power and strength belong to Allah, and whatever is good in our speech is due to the wali (the Imam of the time) of Allah. Mistakes and errors are due to the weakness of our souls.
By the generosity of the Imam of the time, we say that Paradise in truth is the Intellect, and the Gateway of paradise is the Prophet (peace and salutation be upon him) during his time, and his wasi, his rank, and the Imam of the time during his age. The Key to the gateway of paradise is the utterance of the phrase, La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan rasul Allah.
He who recites this shahadah with sincerity has found the key to the gateway of paradise, and he who accepts the shahadah with sincerity has become attached to the Prophet, just as he who finds the key to a door is thereby able to open it. And he who utters this shahadah with sincerity and becomes attached to the Prophet enters Paradise, as, for him who reaches the door with the key, the door opens.
To substantiate our statement that the intellect is paradise, we say that the comfort and ease and security enjoyed by human beings, comes from the universal intellect (aql-i kulli). Wise persons suffer less in the world for no worldly grief can approach them, and profit and loss of the world do not give them fear and anxiety. The foolish, however, are destroyed by their grief over the loss of property and sin and suffering, and due to greed for (things of) the world. From the partial intellect which human beings have received from Allah the Exalted, much of the pain which animals suffer due to their having no intellect, has been lifted from human beings. Thereby stands the proof of the statement that the universal intellect (aql-i kulli) is in reality paradise, because all the bounties and comforts in the world are due to it. Thus the wise person is closer (to the universal intellect), and he who is closer to the intellect is thereby closer to paradise and is the gateway to paradise, in the same manner as the chosen Prophet (that is, Prophet Muhammad) was closer to the universal intellect than all the other creatures (of the world).
Do you not see that the God, the Exalted, commanded him (the Prophet) to teach knowledge to the people? And with regard to the Prophet being the gateway to paradise, no Muslim doubts (the truth of) this. Thus it is true that paradise in reality is the (universal) intellect.
To substantiate our statement that the Prophet is the gateway to paradise, we say that the door to a place is that single opening without which no one can enter therein. It is a reality that no one can reach paradise except that person who obeys the Prophet and who is close to him, and who accepts his farmans and submits to his word and deed, for obedience to God, the Exalted, is (comprised of) obedience to the Prophet. As God, the Exalted, has said:
“Whosoever obeys the Messenger, obeys God.” (Qur’an 4:80)
Similarly, every prophet, in his own time, has been the gateway to paradise, potentially. For this reason, by obeying him and acting upon his shari‘ah (religious law) with knowledge, people can reach paradise. He who accepts the shari‘ ah of the Prophet without the knowledge of the inner meaning or ta’wil finds the gateway to paradise closed whereas he who acts with knowledge (that is, of the inner meaning of shari‘ah) finds the gateway to paradise open. For God, the Exalted says:
“Then those that feared their Lord shall be driven in companies into paradise, till, when they come thither, and its gates are opened. And its keepers will say to them, ‘Peace be upon you! Well you have fared, enter in, to dwell forever’.” (Qur’an 39:73)
Since He says that the gates of paradise were opened, it is evident from this verse that when they came to the gates of paradise, (they found) these closed and subsequently they were opened to them. The meaning of this verse is that all the divine laws of the prophets are concealed in symbols and similes and the salvation of the people lies in the uncovering of them; like a closed door, which, when it is opened, offers people a refuge, and food and drink. When the gateway to paradise is closed then the door to hell will be opened. Thus God Exalted says:
“Then the unbelievers will be driven in companies into hell, till, when they come thither, its gates are opened.” (Qur’an 39:71)
The opening of the gateway to paradise is in the inner meaning or ta’wil of the Book (that is the Qur’an) and the shari‘ah. The possessor of the ta’wil is the wasi of every prophet; and with the opening of the gateway to paradise the door of hell closes. Thus the gateway to paradise is the Prophet, and the opener of it is his wasi (Ali), and (after him), the Imam of the time for the muminin (believers).
Thus having established that the Prophet is the gateway to paradise and his wasi the opener of that gateway, we will discuss the key to the door of paradise and substantiate our statement that the profession of the shahadah (la ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan rasul Allah) is the key to the gateway of paradise. We say that a key is that thing without which one does not desire to approach a closed door in order to open it. It is for this reason that whoever accepted the shahadah came towards Prophet Muhammad, the Messenger of God, and whoever accepts the shahadah, the Prophet has promised paradise for him, as is recorded in the hadith (tradition):
Whoever said, “La ilaha illa Allah” with a pure heart, entered paradise.
Thus this hadith is a proof that the profession of the shahadah is the key for the gateway to paradise, so that those who find it will enter paradise, while those who do not will fail to attain it.
The kalmah, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan rasul Allah,” is composed of two testimonies, just as a key is made up of two separate parts joined together: the body of the key and its teeth. The profession of the shahadah by the believer is like the turning of the key in the lock by the opener, so that thereby the gateway may open.
Thus we say that the Prophet is the gateway to paradise which is closed, and the key to this gateway is the shahadah. The believer holds the key, and the Imam of the time is the mover of that key in the hand of the believer in order that the gateway may be opened. What God has said to His Messenger furnishes the proof of the truth of these words:
“Say! Our Lord will bring us all together, then He will open among us with truth, And He is the Opener, the Wise.” (Qur’an 34:25)
By this verse He means that when the people accept the religion of the Prophet, they will be brought together with the Prophet. Then the possessor of the inner meaning, the ta’wil, will open the knot of the religious law (shari‘ah) with the ta’wil of the shari‘ah, so that the believer may understand what was (truly) meant by the shari‘ah which the prophet had laid down, and the similitudes which were coined, so that the believers may act upon it (the shari‘ah) with insight.
We have explained what is Paradise, the Gateway to Paradise, and the Key to the Gateway of Paradise, according to the understanding of my day.
http://simerg.com/literary-readings/pir ... -paradise/
[quote="kmaherali"]Pir Nasir-i Khusraw on the Gateway and Key to Paradise
Chapter Five of Pir Nasir-i Khusraw’s Wajh-i Din
Introduced and translated by Rukhsana Ali INTRODUCTION TO NASIR KHUSRAW AND WAJH-I DIN ]
So to put it in very simple terms, Paradise is in within our Intellect which is a part of us and our soul. Our soul is eternal. Our intellect is a past of and comes from our soul. Therefore we have to seek paradise from within us on earth. Nasir Khusraw found paradise. So have we found paradise, If we pray, do good and we feel happy and content with what we have (and what we dont have) ?
The question then is what is hell and is there hell ? Is there a seperate paradise and and hell for our soul (and it's intellect) after we die and journey towards or merge into the divine.?
Chapter Five of Pir Nasir-i Khusraw’s Wajh-i Din
Introduced and translated by Rukhsana Ali INTRODUCTION TO NASIR KHUSRAW AND WAJH-I DIN ]
So to put it in very simple terms, Paradise is in within our Intellect which is a part of us and our soul. Our soul is eternal. Our intellect is a past of and comes from our soul. Therefore we have to seek paradise from within us on earth. Nasir Khusraw found paradise. So have we found paradise, If we pray, do good and we feel happy and content with what we have (and what we dont have) ?
The question then is what is hell and is there hell ? Is there a seperate paradise and and hell for our soul (and it's intellect) after we die and journey towards or merge into the divine.?
"All other religions are exoteric, if in this world you do good deeds then after your death you will go to Heaven. But our religion is such that if you act with a clean heart according to its preachings, pray regularly and be pure, then you can acquire Heaven during your life time"(MSMS, Precious Pearls, No. 53)Bloglaw wrote: So to put it in very simple terms, Paradise is in within our Intellect which is a part of us and our soul. Our soul is eternal. Our intellect is a past of and comes from our soul. Therefore we have to seek paradise from within us on earth. Nasir Khusraw found paradise. So have we found paradise, If we pray, do good and we feel happy and content with what we have (and what we dont have) ?
"After death Divine justice will take into consideration the faith, the prayers and the deeds of man. For the chosen there is eternal life and the spiritual felicity of the Divine vision. For the condemned there is hell, where they will be consumed with regret for not having known how to merit the grace and the blessing of Divine mercy."(Memoirs)Bloglaw wrote: The question then is what is hell and is there hell ? Is there a seperate paradise and and hell for our soul (and it's intellect) after we die and journey towards or merge into the divine.?
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
I think heaven = progress ......getting higher and higher in ranks as mentioned in quran......there are seven heavens and we being at the bottom ....I dont think life after death is the end but instead the beginning !!
By heaven means getting at higher stages both in knowledge and perfection of faith ....This is what i believe !!
Hell is to purify those in it for their bad deeds and to make them fit for further advancement....Again mentioned in quran that those in hell will remain there for appointed time....Learning the hard way
In both the case the objective is to struggle, study and progress
What do you think maherali bhai ?
By heaven means getting at higher stages both in knowledge and perfection of faith ....This is what i believe !!
Hell is to purify those in it for their bad deeds and to make them fit for further advancement....Again mentioned in quran that those in hell will remain there for appointed time....Learning the hard way
In both the case the objective is to struggle, study and progress
What do you think maherali bhai ?
Absolutely, the seven heavens are meant for degrees of progress - that on attains different and higher levels of awareness and consciousness as one evolves spiritually. You are in heaven if you are engaged in the quest and search for a higher life....shiraz.virani wrote: In both the case the objective is to struggle, study and progress
What do you think maherali bhai ?
There is a typo in my post above which I cannot correct because I am unable to edit! It should be ' - that one attains' instead of '- that on attains', sorry.kmaherali wrote:Absolutely, the seven heavens are meant for degrees of progress - that on attains different and higher levels of awareness and consciousness as one evolves spiritually. You are in heaven if you are engaged in the quest and search for a higher life....
There is further discussion on the seven heavens and their purpose under the following threads.
Doctrines --> The seven Heavens?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... en+heavens
Ginans --> Nave Khande Mein
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... en+heavens
Doctrines --> Chauda Bhavan
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 06&start=0
Heaven Seven Heavens and The Journey
kmaherali wrote:kmaherali wrote:Absolutely, the seven heavens are meant for degrees of progress - that one attains different and higher levels of awareness and consciousness as one evolves spiritually. You are in heaven if you are engaged in the quest and search for a higher life....
kmaherali wrote:kmaherali wrote:Absolutely, the seven heavens are meant for degrees of progress - that one attains different and higher levels of awareness and consciousness as one evolves spiritually. You are in heaven if you are engaged in the quest and search for a higher life..]
I feel when we are engaged in a search for a highter life (spiritual), then we are not in heaven but we and our soul are seeking heaven, and the divine.
Having said that I feel each of us have a divine spark which comes from the divine and is a part of the divine (MSMS). All of us have a soul which is eternal and is a part of the divne. The soul has come from, is a part of and will again merge within the divine (Fannah Fillah). Merging of the soul.
The journey of our soul progresses through the seven heavens, and in our personal resurections or day of judgements, we will be judged as we progress in this life and as we continue our journey back to the divine. Our life on earth is a part of that Journey.
Whilst on earth we all experience the divine reality in many ways and forms. We are closer to Allah and Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein. (Quran - Monoreality - MSMS).
Ths above are my personal feelings and thoughts put as simply as I possibly can for contemplation and reflection Inshahallah.
Re: Heaven Seven Heavens and The Journey
[quote="kmaherali"][quote="kmaherali"]Absolutely, the seven heavens are meant for degrees of progress - that one attains different and higher levels of awareness and consciousness as one evolves spiritually. You are in heaven if you are engaged in the quest and search for a higher life....]
I feel when we are engaged in a search for a highter life (spiritual), then we are not in heaven but we and our soul are seeking heaven, and the divine.
Having said that I feel each of us have a divine spark which comes from the divine and is a part of the divine (MSMS). All of us have a soul which is eternal and is a part of the divne. The soul has come from, is a part of and will again merge within the divine (Fannah Fillah). Merging of the soul.
The journey of our soul progresses through the seven heavens, and in our personal resurections or day of judgements, we will be judged as we progress in this life and as we continue our journey back to the divine. Our life on earth is a part of that Journey.
Whilst on earth we all experience the divine reality in many ways and forms. We are closer to Allah and Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein. (Quran - Monoreality - MSMS).
Ths above are my personal feelings and thoughts put as simply as I possibly can for contemplation and reflection Inshahallah.
I feel when we are engaged in a search for a highter life (spiritual), then we are not in heaven but we and our soul are seeking heaven, and the divine.
Having said that I feel each of us have a divine spark which comes from the divine and is a part of the divine (MSMS). All of us have a soul which is eternal and is a part of the divne. The soul has come from, is a part of and will again merge within the divine (Fannah Fillah). Merging of the soul.
The journey of our soul progresses through the seven heavens, and in our personal resurections or day of judgements, we will be judged as we progress in this life and as we continue our journey back to the divine. Our life on earth is a part of that Journey.
Whilst on earth we all experience the divine reality in many ways and forms. We are closer to Allah and Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein. (Quran - Monoreality - MSMS).
Ths above are my personal feelings and thoughts put as simply as I possibly can for contemplation and reflection Inshahallah.
Heaven and Hell are remain contraversial issue for centuries long, some peoples belive that we all have to give answer of our deeds ( good or bad) on the day of Judgement (KAYAAMAT DAY) and Almighty Allah will give us punishment according our deeds, if some one did bad deeds during their lives then Almighty Allah will send them in the hell, if some one did good deeds dring their lives, Almighty Allah will send them in heaven and brother this is the common phylosophy in almost all the religions.
The third belivers says that heaven and hell (SWARG AND NARAK) stay with us during our life time on earth, whenever someone has to face difficult time he/she is in HELL and whenever some one has good time during their life he/she is in heaven, thus this kind controversy always there . As per my opinion in controversy like this every one need to use their comon sense , different peoples have different thinking and different thoughts so it is hard that all men has same thoughts. But I belive that every one has to give answer of their deeds after their death and on the day of judgement, Quran and Ginans can not be wrong.
The third belivers says that heaven and hell (SWARG AND NARAK) stay with us during our life time on earth, whenever someone has to face difficult time he/she is in HELL and whenever some one has good time during their life he/she is in heaven, thus this kind controversy always there . As per my opinion in controversy like this every one need to use their comon sense , different peoples have different thinking and different thoughts so it is hard that all men has same thoughts. But I belive that every one has to give answer of their deeds after their death and on the day of judgement, Quran and Ginans can not be wrong.
[quote="agakhani" As per my opinion in controversy like this every one need to use their comon sense , different peoples have different thinking and different thoughts so it is hard that all men has same thoughts. [/quote]I think that the guidance of Imamat is very clear on this matter and there should not be any ambiguity about it in our tariqah.
Guidance of Imamat on what? guidance on heaven and hell? guidance on day of judgement? guidance on the 1.84 lakhs cycles? or guidance on state of mind? Mowlana Sulatan Mohammed shah had made many Farmans on heaven and hell but current Imam does not made any clear cut farmans on heaven and hell,( please correct me if I am wrong) only he insists, emphasizes and reminds us that we have to die one of day and we have to give accountability of our good or bad deeds, but I think MHI does not made any farmans on heaven and hell.I think that the guidance of Imamat is very clear on this matter and there should not be any ambiguity about it in our tariqah.
By the way, If we study all religions believes on heaven and hell then we find many different believes on Heven and hell, some religion people of course believe in heaven and hell, some doesn't, some people believe in 1.84 lakh rebirths (reincarnation) if you do bad deeds in your life some people belive that heaven and hell is nothing else but just state of mind. now which believes we should accept? that is why I wrote about controversy because every one has their own philosophy on Heaven and Hell!!!
As we are on the topic of Heaven and Hell, I meant guidance about it - not any other topic. If there is no guidance of the present Imam, then the guidance of the previous Imam holds.agakhani wrote:Guidance of Imamat on what? guidance on heaven and hell? guidance on day of judgement? guidance on the 1.84 lakhs cycles? or guidance on state of mind? Mowlana Sulatan Mohammed shah had made many Farmans on heaven and hell but current Imam does not made any clear cut farmans on heaven and hell,( please correct me if I am wrong) only he insists, emphasizes and reminds us that we have to die one of day and we have to give accountability of our good or bad deeds, but I think MHI does not made any farmans on heaven and hell.
MHI has not made any Farmans on Das Avtars. Does it mean that we should not follow what MSMS has said about it?
"guidance on the 1.84 lakhs cycles"
just to correct the usual mistake, it is "lakh chorasi" which means lakh x 84 = 8.4 millions
Not 1.84 lakh, this misunderstanding comes from the way we speak in reverse in Indian languages
By the way there is a good book on Heaven and Hell by Corbin, in French, L'Archange Empourpre" and one by Swedenborg titled "le ciel et l'enfer"
just to correct the usual mistake, it is "lakh chorasi" which means lakh x 84 = 8.4 millions
Not 1.84 lakh, this misunderstanding comes from the way we speak in reverse in Indian languages
By the way there is a good book on Heaven and Hell by Corbin, in French, L'Archange Empourpre" and one by Swedenborg titled "le ciel et l'enfer"
Admin,
Thanks for the correction on word 'LAKH CHORASI" you forced me to dig dictionary to find out real meaning of this word thanks for that, look what I found? as per purans, there are 84 lakhs yonis ( births) of different creatures from sea, sky and earth and they are as follows:-
SEA CREATURES 9 LAKHS
SMALL CREATURE (SKY,EARTH) 20 LAKHS
WORMS 11 LAKHS
BIRDS 10 LAKHS
ANIMALS 30 LAKHS
HUMAN 4 LAKHS
TOTAL 84 LAKHS
Please note lakh means one hundred thousands 1x 84 = 84 x1000=
84000.00 lakhs, you can tell it 8.4 millions in USA math.
In all of above births human birth (yoni) is great and superior,(ASHRAFUL MAKHLUKAT) but it is very hard to obtain, so all human being should need to do good deeds only so they don't have to wandering in these yonis again and again, any souls can receive salvation, fanafillah or moksh in human birth only, that is why human birth is superior so we should not waste it.
Thanks for the correction on word 'LAKH CHORASI" you forced me to dig dictionary to find out real meaning of this word thanks for that, look what I found? as per purans, there are 84 lakhs yonis ( births) of different creatures from sea, sky and earth and they are as follows:-
SEA CREATURES 9 LAKHS
SMALL CREATURE (SKY,EARTH) 20 LAKHS
WORMS 11 LAKHS
BIRDS 10 LAKHS
ANIMALS 30 LAKHS
HUMAN 4 LAKHS
TOTAL 84 LAKHS
Please note lakh means one hundred thousands 1x 84 = 84 x1000=
84000.00 lakhs, you can tell it 8.4 millions in USA math.
In all of above births human birth (yoni) is great and superior,(ASHRAFUL MAKHLUKAT) but it is very hard to obtain, so all human being should need to do good deeds only so they don't have to wandering in these yonis again and again, any souls can receive salvation, fanafillah or moksh in human birth only, that is why human birth is superior so we should not waste it.
this is 6 categories. According to our faith these are the 4 categories instead:
Pantris ane pachwis, sol ne ath
35 + 25+ 16 +8 = 84 (lakh)
3.5 million dust/stones mineral births, you got 35 chance to recognise the Imam, you failed and went to next stage
2.5 million birth as vegetable/vegetation you got 25 chance to recognise the Imam you failed, went to next stage of evolution
1.6 million birth in animal stage, 16 chance to recognise the Imam, next stage:
800,000 human births, you got 8 chances to recognise... ismailism = last chance to recognise the Imam, if you fail, you return to the first birth, dust!
therefore a man without faith [it is said so by the Imam to his followers] is worth less then the dust of the road [dust of the road = first birth] because he will attain the stage of dust in his next life, therefore he is less valued then the dust.
Pantris ane pachwis, sol ne ath
35 + 25+ 16 +8 = 84 (lakh)
3.5 million dust/stones mineral births, you got 35 chance to recognise the Imam, you failed and went to next stage
2.5 million birth as vegetable/vegetation you got 25 chance to recognise the Imam you failed, went to next stage of evolution
1.6 million birth in animal stage, 16 chance to recognise the Imam, next stage:
800,000 human births, you got 8 chances to recognise... ismailism = last chance to recognise the Imam, if you fail, you return to the first birth, dust!
therefore a man without faith [it is said so by the Imam to his followers] is worth less then the dust of the road [dust of the road = first birth] because he will attain the stage of dust in his next life, therefore he is less valued then the dust.
The four categories can also be categorized as the Chaar khaann (the four pitfalls). Basically it is a classification of physical creation. Sitej is non-living creation, Udhbhoj/Sureg is vegetative creation, Indej is life forms brought forth from eggs and Jarej is life forms brought forth from womb.Admin wrote: According to our faith these are the 4 categories instead:
Pantris ane pachwis, sol ne ath
35 + 25+ 16 +8 = 84 (lakh)
Having passed the 84 lakh cycles comprising the above categories we have become Man with its unique capacity. If we make use of our potential we become God and if we misuse our potential we fall into the Chaar Khaann.
800,000 human births, you got 8 chances to recognise... ismailism = last chance to recognise the Imam,
Admin, and KM,The four categories can also be categorized as the Chaar khaann (the four pitfalls).
You both explained very well thanks for that, but Admin, after reading your explanation one question arising in my mind and question is what would happen to those peoples (other than Ismailis) who do not recognize Imam in 8 chances given to them?!!
I heard in one waez of Rai Abu Ali that nobody can achieve salvation until he/she does not recognize the imam!! if this is the true then what about the peoples from other religions? of course they do not believe in Imam or Ismailism, for instant example lets take; Sunny Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians.
ARE THEY NEED TO TAKE BIRTH IN ISMAILISM, BECAUSE ONLY ISMAILISM HAS CURRENT IMAM???!!
Please answer my question rather then posting this link and that link because this is very serious question. (at least for me.)
There are many people who were not born Ismailis but recognised the Imam. They did not say this in public but their love for the Imam was such that we could not be mistaken. Corbin, Arkoun are but two examples
I want to add a lady in Toronto, she claim to be Christian, she told me "do not worry" and she added a most powerful 5 words statement: "The Imam is with us". I read this and I said to myself, she is better Ismaili then me.
There is story of Pir Shams who converted a lion to Ismailism and to the recognition of the Imam. Pir Shams asked what are you willing to give to the Imam as Dassond? The lion said "I will refrain from hunting in one tenth (10%) of the forest. Pir Shams accepted his Bayat on behalf of the Imam.
I want to add a lady in Toronto, she claim to be Christian, she told me "do not worry" and she added a most powerful 5 words statement: "The Imam is with us". I read this and I said to myself, she is better Ismaili then me.
There is story of Pir Shams who converted a lion to Ismailism and to the recognition of the Imam. Pir Shams asked what are you willing to give to the Imam as Dassond? The lion said "I will refrain from hunting in one tenth (10%) of the forest. Pir Shams accepted his Bayat on behalf of the Imam.
Last edited by Admin on Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the Ginan a tiger is mentioned...Admin wrote: There is story of Pir Shams who converted a lion to Ismailism and to the recognition of the Imam. Pir Shams asked what are you willing to give to the Imam as Dassond? The lion said "I will refrain from hunting in one tenth (10%) of the forest. Pir Shams accepted his Bayat on behalf of the Imam.
TEEAA(N) GURE GINAAN KAREAA - PEER SHAMSH
see(n)h boleaa dayaa karee, have hu(n) gaae nu(n) khaau(n) maas..10
At that moment a cow came up and stood beside the Peer. The tiger said: 'If you graciously permit, I shall now eat the cow's flesh.'
ejee sat-gur shamas boleaa, am paase ubhe naam na levaae;
sarann aavee am tanne, tam thee na khaadhee jaae.................11
The True Guide Shams spoke: 'Do not even dare mention the name of the one who stands beside me. She has entered my protection, and is not to be eaten by you.
ejee bhagat ginaan boleaa, ane vaagh saa(n)bhale ekaa(n)t;
vaagh ne imaan aaveaa, taare melee gaae ni vaat..................12
The devotees uttered the teaching, and the tiger listened with close attention. The tiger was filled with faith, and then left the cow alone.
ejee see(n)he daso(n)d paratthee, ane ek van nee mukee vaat;
te van maa(n)he nathee jaataa, na kare utapaat...................13
The tiger contracted to pay the tithe, and it gave up the business of one forest-grove. It would not enter the forest, and did no mischief there.
ejee saavaj ne saan aavee, ane saa(m)bhalee gur naa ginaan;
te vaeeku(n)tth paameaa, aleaa gur-mukhe daan....................14
The tiger became enlightened, after attending to the Guide's teaching. It reached heaven, and made its offerings in the name of the Guide.
ejee sat-gur shamas bodheaa, evaa saavaj pa(n)khee jaann;
aaj gur vachane je chaalase, te thaase sahee niravaann...........15
The True Guide preached in this way to the wild beasts and birds. Those who proceed according to the word of the Guide today will assuredly be saved.
http://www.ismaili.net/gina.html
That is true and thanks for sharing story of lion and Pir Shams,There are many people who were not born Ismailis but recognised the Imam.
by the way my question still remain unanswered, I repeat it again, what about the peoples who are not born as Ismailis and do not recognize the imam?
are they need to take rebirth as Ismaili? because only Ismailism has concept of ( current) Imamat.
MSMS in his memoirs says:agakhani wrote:I repeat it again, what about the peoples who are not born as Ismailis and do not recognize the imam?
are they need to take rebirth as Ismaili? because only Ismailism has concept of ( current) Imamat.
"But as the joys of human love surpass all that riches and power may bring a man, so does that greater spiritual love and enlightenment, the fruit of that sublime experience of the direct vision of reality which is God's gift and grace, surpass all that the finest, truest human love can offer. For that gift we must ever pray.
Now I am convinced that through Islam, through the idea of Allah, as presented by Muslims, man can attain this direct experience................ which no words can explain but which for him are absolute certainties. I have not discussed experience of this order with non-Muslims, but I have been told that Buddhists, Brahmins, Zoroastrians and Christians I have often not heard it of Jews, except perhaps Spinoza-have also attained this direct, mystical vision. I am certain that many Muslims, and I am convinced that I myself, have had moments of enlightenment and of knowledge of a kind which we cannot communicate because it is something given and not something acquired."
It is quite clear from the above authoritative statement of the Imam that whoever seeks the Light will find it. The Light is not restricted to Ismailis only. There are many tariqahs and paths leading to the Light depending upon each individuals outlook and background.
Also recognition of the Imam call happen at non-physical astral planes of existence, so it is not necessary to take birth as an Ismaili to experience the Light.
The ginan I read was about 10% of the forest so I think it was a different ginan. For the definition of Sinh:
Sinha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sinha is a common surname in South Asia, especially in India and Sri Lanka. It comes from the Sanskrit word "Siṃha" ('ng' sound), which means lion. ...
I don't know how to call a tiger in Hindi or Gujarati, that's were parents would be a good help. I call them Sher Khan [from Mowgli movie seen when I was a kid]
Sinha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sinha is a common surname in South Asia, especially in India and Sri Lanka. It comes from the Sanskrit word "Siṃha" ('ng' sound), which means lion. ...
I don't know how to call a tiger in Hindi or Gujarati, that's were parents would be a good help. I call them Sher Khan [from Mowgli movie seen when I was a kid]
Tiger call "vaagh" ' વાઘ' in GujaratiI don't know how to call a tiger in Hindi or Gujarati, that's were parents would be a good help
and call "baagh" ' बाघ in Hindi
Addition of this, we should accept only moral in any story, so it is not big issue whether it was tiger or lion, however there are big difference between these two wild animals.
FYI:- Now a days lions only exist in Africa and India, no more in Sri Lanka.
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
Come on guys .....seriously ??? Pir talking to lion/tiger ??? .........This story is nothing more than inspirational one
Why do we ismailis always end up taking every single thing in physical sense ?? No wonder we sometimes become the laughing stock for the ummah
Yes i do agree that there is physical and spiritual but talking to Tiger/Lion , looooool.....Even the pir must be laughing on us today seeing what we made of his ginan !
And why did the tiger/lion promised to give only 10% and not 12.5% as per ismailism ??? Did pir gave him some tax exemption ?
Why do we ismailis always end up taking every single thing in physical sense ?? No wonder we sometimes become the laughing stock for the ummah
Yes i do agree that there is physical and spiritual but talking to Tiger/Lion , looooool.....Even the pir must be laughing on us today seeing what we made of his ginan !
And why did the tiger/lion promised to give only 10% and not 12.5% as per ismailism ??? Did pir gave him some tax exemption ?
Shirazbhai,shiraz.virani wrote:Come on guys .....seriously ??? Pir talking to lion/tiger ??? .........This story is nothing more than inspirational one
Elevated souls can communicate with animals. When individuals elevate their souls, they become transformed from having partial intellects to having complete universal intellects. From that perspective they can understand all. The Pirs in our tradition are the bearers of the Noor (Universal Intellect), hence they know all. Below is an anecdote from the life of Rumi.
"Near the market, Rumi began talking to people in the late afternoon one day. A large crowd gathered, but as the sun went down and Jelaluddin kept discoursing, they wandered away. He went on into the night, until finally he was alone with a number of the town's stray dogs, who sat in a circle around him whining and wagging their tails. "You understand what I say,"he announced to his canine audience. "Men have condescended and called you 'dogs,' but from now on, let your species be known as the seven sleepers, because of that blessed group in the Qur'an, which included one of you."[/quote]
Dasond is derived from the word Das which means ten. Dasond (which is the right of the Imam) is one tenth, the 2.5% is for the Pir. We combine the two in our submission.shiraz.virani wrote: And why did the tiger/lion promised to give only 10% and not 12.5% as per ismailism ??? Did pir gave him some tax exemption ?