Farmans

[lakhania]

is there some place I can get access to farmans? online or otherwise.

Thanks

[schatoor]

Farmans on the net!!! No way, farmans are for Ismaili's ONLY. I would ask for a copy of a farman book at your local JK.

[DELETED]

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[shamsu]

Where does it say that farmans are for Ismailies only?

In Booni and Gharam chasma (chitral, Pakistan) non-Ismailies were sitting with the Jamat while Imam was making farmans.

Please give valid references for your statements about Farmans being only for Ismailies.

SHAMS

[kmaherali]

It is Imam's absolute prerogative. Which firmans to make and in what context and how they are disseminated. If He authorises then they may be published otherwise murids who are interested in reading them, should get them in JKs from Mukhi/Kamadia Sahebs. My understanding is that even for the Firmans to be read out in JKs, they have to be approved by the Imam.

I think the most important thing to realise is that the Mursheed's discourse varies depending on the context. For example, the Firmans that he would make in a general Deedar will be different than the ones he would make in a Mandli.

[shamsu]

[quote="kmaherali"]It is Imam's absolute prerogative. Which firmans to make and in what context and how they are disseminated. If He authorises then they may be published otherwise murids who are interested in reading them, should get them in JKs from Mukhi/Kamadia Sahebs.[quote]

K please give me a reference for this particular opinion of yours.

[kmaherali]

It is Imam's absolute prerogative. Which firmans to make and in what context and how they are disseminated. If He authorises then they may be published otherwise murids who are interested in reading them, should get them in JKs from Mukhi/Kamadia Sahebs.

K please give me a reference for this particular opinion of yours.

There was an announcement by the Tariqah Board here in Canada to this effect recently before the Firmans made at Dubai were read out in JK.

[karimqazi]

Ya Ali Madad Shamsu,
Farman is like niyaz. Niyaz can only be drank by Ismailis becuase they given bayath to the Imam. You can't give the food of elephants to ants. Have you ever seens crows eating perals? Pearls are only for a certain bird (haans).

[quote="shamsu"]Where does it say that farmans are for Ismailies only?

When your asking about the refernce to where it says that... look in the KIM part one and part two and you will find it.

I was very upset that a momin like you is asking this silly question.

FARMAN IS ONLY FOR THOSE THAT HAVE GIVEN BAYATH TO THE IMAM OF THE TIME.

When mowla addresses both muslims and Ismailis together it is called Irshad not Farman.

May Mowla Bless you all, and enlighten you all with the truth (haquiath).

[alinizar313]

Yes. Firman is exclusively for Ismaili Murid. AS far as Mulaqat in Garam Chashma, Booni or some past mulaqat in Northern part of Pakistan is concerned, the Muslim from other sect like Shia ishna-ashri and Sunni requested for Mulaqat saying that Your Imam has done a lot not only for you but we also get benefit from him so he is also our Leader or Imam. ( It was told to me by some of our Ismailis from Hunza) and Imam accepted their request and bestowed them with Mulaqat. Since then the terminology for firman is changed to Irshad Mubarak when there are both Ismaili and non-Ismaili Muslim in Mulaqat as Word "Firman" is exclusively reserved for Imam's Murid. Now when Mowla speaks at that occassion, it is 'firman' for the Murid but is 'Irshad' for others. Firman is "Order" for Murid while "Irshad" is just advice for others. I think it will clearify the matter

[kmaherali]

Since then the terminology for firman is changed to Irshad Mubarak when there are both Ismaili and non-Ismaili Muslim in Mulaqat as Word "Firman" is exclusively reserved for Imam's Murid. Now when Mowla speaks at that occassion, it is 'firman' for the Murid but is 'Irshad' for others. Firman is "Order" for Murid while "Irshad" is just advice for others. I think it will clearify the matter

In this particular situation the Imam used the word "Firman" and not "Irshad". This is how it begins:

"My beloved spiritual children, My brothers and sisters in Islam,

I would like to begin this Farman by telling you how deeply happy I am to be back in Chitral after such a long absence."

To me that is not an issue. It is Imam's prerogative. He can decide to make a Firman in public or exclusively to His murids in private. He can decide to publish some Firmans and not others.

[shamsu]

Ya Aly Madad Everyone,

Our Pirs have taught us that every word that comes out of the Imams mouth is MANTRA. (reference girbavali)

Mantra meaning Isme Azam

It shows us how the Pirs see the word of Imam and how we see it. Here we are discussing Firman/Irshad/speech/niyaz which is alright, but the reality of the word of the Imam transcends all else.

Now, when the word of the Imam transcends all else where does the grandiose delusion that Farmans are only for Ismailies fit in the picture. Farmans are above all else (including all Ismailies).


Our Imam says to us that when God thinks it is creation. If creation occurs with his thought can we even imagine what would occur with his word.

Whether the word is uttered in Jamatkhana or in a speech somewhere its value, its importance is beyond our imagination.

For us to even attempt to put different values to his word is a display of our own ignorance of the reality of his word.

I am sorry if I confused people with my inquiries earlier.

SHAMS

[kmaherali]

Whether the word is uttered in Jamatkhana or in a speech somewhere its value, its importance is beyond our imagination.

For us to even attempt to put different values to his word is a display of our own ignorance of the reality of his word.

I am sorry if I confused people with my inquiries earlier.

SHAMS

Nobody is attempting to put different values or importance to the word of the Imam made in different contexts. His word is as important when spoken in Jamatkhana as when spoken outside. All that is implied is that the Mursheed speaks according to the capacity of the audience to understand him. To illustrate the point, I will reproduce an anectdote that was quoted by 202=rub in another discussion as under.

One day the Prophet was sitting with some of his companions, when a guy came in his presence and asked a question to him by saying " O Prophet of God can you explain to me as to why there are stars in the sky" and in replying to the man the Prophet said to him "To decorate heaven" and the guy departed. Sometimes, after that another guy came in the presence of the Prophe, while the Prophet was in the company of his companions and the guy requested the Prophet by asking him "O Prophet of God can you tell me why there are stars in the sky to this man in reply the prophet explained to him the astronomical and natural phenomena's as to why there are stars in the sky. When the companions came to know the two different answers for the same question, they asked the Prophet as to why he gave two different accounts to the same question? He told his companions that the first guy who had asked him the question only had the capacity of understanding that much, as to what he had told him, and if he had said anymore then that, the guy would have disbelieved in him. While on the other hand, the Prophet tells to his companions that the second guy who had asked him the question was a learned man in the sciences of physics and astronomy, and he had the capacity of understanding as much as to what he had explained to him without the guy having any doubts in him about the subject matter.

[star_munir]

So do you mean every one has not capacity to understand true religion?

[kmaherali]

So do you mean every one has not capacity to understand true religion?

The capacity will depend upon background. A child born in a religious upbringing will have a higher capacity to understand religion than a child who has never been exposed to religion. Ibn Sina had memorised the Quran at a very early age! Not everyone has the time and resources to understand religion and therefore the capacity will vary depending upon individual circumstances. That is one of the reasons for having hierarchies and mandlis, to cater for different capacities of individuals. The following are statements of our Imams to allude to this.

In your high intellectual world many of you are fortunate to have the time to reflect on the great aspects of Prophet Mohammed's life. It is a blessing that many a Muslim would wish for, but due to circumstances beyond his control, indeed the very nature of modern life, he cannot have. (1976, Seerat Conference)

Thus it is My profound conviction that Islamic Society in the years ahead will find that our traditional concept of time, a limitless mirror in which to reflect on the eternal, will become shrinking cage, an invisible trap from which fewer and fewer will escape. (1976, Seerat Conference)

Hafiz, the great Persian poets, have told us, each in his different way, that some men are born with such natural spiritual capacities and possibilities of development that they have direct experience of that great love, that all-embracing, all-consuming love, which direct contact with reality gives to the human soil. Hafiz indeed has said that men like Jesus Christ and Muslim mystics like Mansour and Bayezid and others have possessed that spiritual power of the greater love; that any of us, if the Holy Spirit (*) ever present grants us that enlightenment, can, being thus blessed, have the power which Christ had, but that to the overwhelming majority of men this greater love is not a practical possibility. (Memoirs)

[shamsu]

"Guru Kripa ae thai" Every little step towards him occurs with his grace, Be you Ismaili or non-Ismaili.
1]From one point of view the difference between a true murid and anyone else is like the difference between a piece of glass and almas(precious stone).
2]From another point of view "Jeha dekhu vahan tu hi tu" where ever I look its only you. So what murid and what mareed. When nur is bharpur every where how does it matter whether someone is glass or almas, the essence of both is the sublime one.

Now it is up to us as to which window we want to look through 1] or 2]

OR

do we want to let go of windows, and step out of the house.



Shams

[kmaherali]

In principle I do not see any problem if a non-Ismaili has access to Firmans provided the Imam gives his approval, i.e, he publishes them. After all the value of Firmans to a reader will depend on how he perceives the Imam. If he perceives the Imam only as an ordinary man, he will not attach much significance to them. On the other hand, if he recognises Him as a manifestation of God then he will attach great importance to them and perhaps benefit from them.

[shamsu]

I think in KIM there is a farman where Imam SMS says that the other religion people come to him for advice and do what he says, its just the khoja's who do not follow what Imam says.

As far as the significance of farman. Any one who follows farmans will benefit from them, Ismaili or non-Ismaili.

[nargisk3]

Hi ya'll. I was wondering- I heard this Farman by SMS (AS) in khane this morning, and it was all in gujrati, and I wanted to know if anyone had a copy of it in english. I kind of had a hard time understanding it, but I think the Farman was about the 4 stages, and how 2 are Shariati, and 2 are Ruhani. SMS then went to compare these stages as to when a husband looks at his wife, and how he goes through all 4 stages, and compares that to what a Muslim does. The first stage is when he looks at his wife, the 2nd is how he reacts, the 3rd is his thought of love, and the 4th is his actual love. (This was all in the Farman.) So..if anyone knows which Farman I'm talking about, I'd REALLY appreciate it if you could send me a copy of this in English..or just let me know where I can get a copy of it. Thanks a bunch! =)

[shamsu]

Dear Nargis,

The farman you are talking about is the famous Farman about Jismani rasto (physical path) and the ruhani rasto (spiritual path) and then there is the bhedsaed walo rasto (mixed up path).

There used to be a red buttonwali book of Imam SMS's BUK farmans in khojki. This farman is from that book. There are some gujrati transliterations of it but to the best of my knowledge there are no English translations.

If I can make the time I may translate it for you but only if ADMIN allows me to on this forum otherwise it will have to be in e-mail and only you will benefit from it.

This farman is so very important and in such a beautiful way describes our faith and what ruhani really means, that I wish it was put up on JK notice boards all over the world.

The ruhani rasta is described in 4 stages
1] Realise you have seperated from your origin.

2] Fill up your mind with this thought.

3] give birth to the desire of becoming one with the origin inside your heart.

4] Become one with the origin.

Imam SMS has explained this to be the ruhani rasto. And if you remember he has also declared our faith to be a ruhani faith.

As you can see there is no involvement of the body in the entire path that we Ismailies are supposed to follow.

This path is the essence of our faith in my opinion.

Lets see what Admin does to this translation attempt Nargis.

YAM

Shams

[from_Origin]

Dear Nargis,

The farman you are talking about is the famous Farman about Jismani rasto (physical path) and the ruhani rasto (spiritual path) and then there is the bhedsaed walo rasto (mixed up path).

If I can make the time I may translate it for you but only if ADMIN allows me to on this forum otherwise it will have to be in e-mail and only you will benefit from it.

The ruhani rasta is described in 4 stages

Lets see what Admin does to this translation attempt Nargis.

YAM

Shams

Shamsu, how about it? Did you get the farman translated? If not, do you have a copy you can fax over?

[shamsu]

I have extra copies of that farman book but the whole thing is in gujrati.
Let me know if you want the book. email me [email protected].

[alinizar313]

I have extra copies of that farman book but the whole thing is in gujrati.
Let me know if you want the book. email me [email protected].

Shamsu, For those who can't read Gujrati but understand Gijrati, we can translate those firman in Roman English so that its origionality can be preserved.
There is a book of firmans of S.M.S and MHI compiled in a systematical chain called "313". Another one was "Roohani Raz". Both books are in Gujrati. I translated those books in Urdu with the consultation of five other friends of mine in Karachi. Recently we translated these books in English as well.

[panjwaniamir]

I have extra copies of that farman book but the whole thing is in gujrati.
Let me know if you want the book. email me [email protected].
_________________
Whatever is, is RUH.......Imam Soultan Mohd Shah Daataar(salwaat).

Whatever is, is YA ALY...Imam Aga Aly Shah Daataar(salwaat).


Yaa Ali Madad Shamsu,
i have Email u on your above given email id but i have'nt got any reply. Is it working at the moment, or can u give your other E-Mail ID.
wating for your reply.Reply it soon Plzzzzzzzzz.

Yaa ali Madad
An Ismaili

[from_Origin]

I have extra copies of that farman book but the whole thing is in gujrati.
Let me know if you want the book. email me [email protected].

How 'bout it Dr. Shamsu? Would you kindly share the Farman book with me? My last email out to you must not have reached you.

Thanks

[shamsu]

I am sorry guys have a busy 3 more weeks ahead of me. I have some of these farmans in real audio format that I can transfer to you if we are on msn messenger at the same time.
Emails have a limitation though.