Silly response from an Al-waezar

Zahara · Post by **Zahara** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:56 am

Yam, A friend of mine just asked a al-waezar why we pay to become member in a majalis, I was soooo not happy for the response he gave - this is what he said: - For the same reason you pay to go into a nightclub, you meet people, socialize & get food etc..... I find the Al-waezars responce so unprofessional

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:19 pm

Can you name the alwaez plz?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:24 pm

Well in Ismailism you have to give money for taking jura,chaanta,in majalis, in dasond etc but whats problem in giving money. First of all money which we have is money of Imam. He has given us all. If we give Him money [which is and all other things which we have is given by HIM] so whats wrong in it. It is said serve Lord with tan,man and dhan i.e, with body,heart and money.If you go in majlis or give donations fund not for the Love of Imam but other reasons like that your friend is in majlis or to show that you are wealthy than there is no reward. If you give money for any thing dua,chanta,majlis,donation for the Love of Imam than you get lot of rewards and He gives you much more than what you had before.

Zahara · Post by **Zahara** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:55 am

Yam Star_munir, dont knw if u got my private msg, the name of the Al-waez i think is nizar mawani

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:15 pm

I would like to share my thoughts on this subject as under.

The concept of Mandlis is linked to the willingness of murids to sacrifice some aspect of their lives, be it wealth or time for the sake of a higher cause . By setting up a nominal amount for a murid to join a Mandli, we are indicating that joining that mandli involves a degree of sacrifice beyond your regular duties in life. The murid who is prepared to pay that amount is demonstrating that he is willing to detach himself from material considerations for the sake of a higher cause and that he has the means to do it. HazarImam does not impose this commitment upon individuals, it is voluntary and it is only meant for the murids who have understood the importance of it and who are willing to commit their lives for the cause and who have the means for it. It is not meant for everyone.

shirazkali · Post by **shirazkali** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:30 am

Just remember that imam doesn't worry about the money. he doesn't need our money. now the main question arise is that the why do we pay for dua and life dedication and other mandlis.

i think the money which we have is not ours. that is his money, he has given us through his blessings.

imam said in his farman that
"If you give me one, i will give you thousands."

thats an historical fact that he has done in every time. just go back and see what conditions were we or our grand parents 50 to 60 years ago, ask your parents, then you will see where are we now? that is all his blessings.

we give money in jamat khana's or in another mandlis because once we go to jk, we give our life to him
" tan, mana, dhana, gura ne arapande keeje......"

it is an interesting fact that we all love money. we can't survive without money. when we go in jk, we say to our imam that this is most precious thing(money) that i submit to you for your blessings. imam's blessings increase on us and he keep giving us more. it is all about love.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:10 pm

This reminds me of verse of aarti Om Jai Jagdish Haree [aarti of hindus]

Tan,man,dhan jo kuch hai sab hi hai tera
Swami sab kuch hai tera
Tera tujh ko arpan
Kya Lage mere Om Jai Jagdesh Haree

Mowla Ali Madad Zahra,
There is some problem in system of private messages . I dont know about Alwaez Nizar Mawani but I totally agree with you that it was really a very silly response.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:00 am

star_munir wrote:This reminds me of verse of aarti Om Jai Jagdish Haree [aarti of hindus]

Tan,man,dhan jo kuch hai sab hi hai tera
Swami sab kuch hai tera
Tera tujh ko arpan
Kya Lage mere Om Jai Jagdesh Haree

This is a very good example of one of the strengths of pluralism. It shows us how contacts with other traditions serve to illuminate our own traditions. This particular verse explains the concept of AMANAT which we are made aware of in the 5th part of Dua as: "O YE WHO BELIEVE, DO NOT DECEIVE GOD OR THE PROPHET AND DO NOT MISAPPROPRIATE THE AMANAT WHILE YOU KNOW". Whatever we own is an AMANAT, i.e. is in our trust from God.

From this perspective what appears as a sacrifice from the Zaheri point of view becomes a priviledge to give from the Batini point of view.

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:21 am

This is what i think.

Money is given to run the day to day chores of jk. Like the maintaining of jk. ( I think thats wat the Waezin meant by what he said). It is mowla's money and mowla does ask for his share quite clearly but i dont think i have come across any saying of his in which he has asked to put money for dua. We use the jk for prayers, hence it is our duty to contribute for keeping it in good condition. ( Just like a club charges us...... to provide the services and keep it maintained).

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:40 am

sheri wrote:This is what i think.

Money is given to run the day to day chores of jk. Like the maintaining of jk. ( I think thats wat the Waezin meant by what he said). It is mowla's money and mowla does ask for his share quite clearly but i dont think i have come across any saying of his in which he has asked to put money for dua. We use the jk for prayers, hence it is our duty to contribute for keeping it in good condition. ( Just like a club charges us...... to provide the services and keep it maintained).

That is one way of considering it. However, I have come across a verse of a Ginan by Sayyed Imam Shah where he tells us to give a coin as a token of devotion. I do not know it off hand. I will try to find it and will post it when available.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:18 pm

The following verse is from Moman Chetamani regarding Dua Karaavi.

406) Eji Gat mukhi sathe dua karaviae
Kori damri pujani daiae saar
Bijo dharm to dasond che
Te dhandha mahain thi aaliae pati pure vevar
Cheto....

406. Fold your hands before the Mukhi and do the Du'a ceremony; give a token coin as a sign of devotion and always observe Dasond and conduct a (spiritual) business with Ali.

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:23 am

How can this translation is correct.....because there was no way people used coins 600 years ago. Well someone translated it in looking at the world in todays view.This is what i think.......!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:59 pm

sheri wrote:How can this translation is correct.....because there was no way people used coins 600 years ago. Well someone translated it in looking at the world in todays view.This is what i think.......!

We are an esoteric faith, therefore the essence is more important than the form. The form can change but the essense cannot. In this case the form is the coin and the essence is devotion to HazarImam. So long as the coin represents a token of devotion it is a valid translation in my opinion.

pak · Post by **pak** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:44 am

but nobody ha s given he real
background or the history from
where it's start

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:25 pm

pak wrote:but nobody ha s given he real
background or the history from
where it's start

According to my understanding, a group of murids approached Imam Aga Hassanali Shah (I think, not too sure) that they would like the priviledge of serving the Imam of the time like the murids who served the Imams when they ruled as in the Fatimid period. The Imam told them that it is not possible to have the same kind of Seva in today's circumstances because the Imams do not rule any longer. However he would establish Mandlis whereby a murid could get the same kind of benefit if he set aside a certain amount from his income and gave it to the Imam. In those days it was 500 rupees for Paanch Saal (five years) and 1200 rupees for Baar saal(12 years) and 5000 for Life Dedication.

The basic concept is the willingness of a murid to sacrifice his wealth or time for a higher cause. It is voluntary and it is only meant for those who have understood the concept and who have the means to do so.

pak · Post by **pak** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:26 am

sorry i m not getting clear that who has setup the amount imam or mureed
thnx

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:49 am

pak wrote:sorry i m not getting clear that who has setup the amount imam or mureed
thnx

According to my understanding and recollection of the Firmans, it is the Imam who sets up the amount.

www.ismaili.net

Silly response from an Al-waezar

Silly response from an Al-waezar

The Name

Money and Mandlis

Moman Chetamani Verse on Dua Karaavi

Mandlis - Background