The following is an extract from late Alwaez Shamshuddin Bandali Haji's book, "Noor-en-Allah-Noor" regarding the importance of DASOND.
ITMADI KAMADIA KASSIMALI ZAVERI highly served our Beloved IMAM MOWLANA SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH. He was a TRUE MOMIN and used to spend thousands of rupees during PADHARAMNI MUBARAK in INDIA of our Beloved forty-eighth IMAM MOWLANA SULTAN MOHAMED SHAH. ITMADI KAMADIA KASSIMALI used to pay DASOND -- MALEVAJBAT in GAT JAMATH very regularly, but in order to impart good impressions to our JAMATHS, MOWLANA SULTAN MOHAMED SHAH once
drew the attention of ITMADI KASSIMALI saying:
"ITMADI KASSIMALI, you spend thousands during my PADHRAMNI, I shall positively reward you in this world and the next."
"ITMADI DASOND BARABAR DENA, KABI DASOND MALEVAJBAAT BARABAR NAHI DEGA TO AKHARAT ME KHAYGA KYA? (If you will not fulfill your duty of paying DASOND regularly what will you sustain yourself on in the ABUBAT, in your ETERNAL LIFE?)"
ITMADI KASSIMALI KAMADIA and his family, as usual, maintained regular payment of DASOND for their lifetimes.
Importance of DASOND
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star_munir
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The importance of Dasond is so much that
1 According to Quran the one who not gives dasond [zakat] is Kaafir.
2 According to Pir Hassan Kabirdin people who not gives dasond are like koravs who were kafir and enemy of Pandavs and Krishna.
3 I have heard a farman of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah that Jo log dasond nahi dete wo imamat ke shatru hain.
4 According to Syed Imam Shah those momins who will be dubious about paying dasond will have no material,physical or family peace.
There was a man whose name was Qaroon who was the wealthiest person of this world. No other person in this world had and has so much money.
He was so rich that 40camels were needed to carry just keys of his treaures and 400 servents used to walk behind wearing beautiful and shiny dresses.
Hazrat Musa asked him Zakat [dasond]. He refused to give him and said Why should I give my money to Allah. This is my money which I earned with my efforts and without any kind of help from Allah. I cant give you dasond. Prophet Musa explained him many times that dasond is necessary.But he not gave dasond and at last he along with all his treaure went inside the earth as the punishment from God.
1 According to Quran the one who not gives dasond [zakat] is Kaafir.
2 According to Pir Hassan Kabirdin people who not gives dasond are like koravs who were kafir and enemy of Pandavs and Krishna.
3 I have heard a farman of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah that Jo log dasond nahi dete wo imamat ke shatru hain.
4 According to Syed Imam Shah those momins who will be dubious about paying dasond will have no material,physical or family peace.
There was a man whose name was Qaroon who was the wealthiest person of this world. No other person in this world had and has so much money.
He was so rich that 40camels were needed to carry just keys of his treaures and 400 servents used to walk behind wearing beautiful and shiny dresses.
Hazrat Musa asked him Zakat [dasond]. He refused to give him and said Why should I give my money to Allah. This is my money which I earned with my efforts and without any kind of help from Allah. I cant give you dasond. Prophet Musa explained him many times that dasond is necessary.But he not gave dasond and at last he along with all his treaure went inside the earth as the punishment from God.
Dasond is not Zakat
Ya aly Madad Munir
Dasond is not Zakat
KIM part I first Farman Page 3 Imam SMS 1st September 1885
1] Ushra Allah je Quran ma cche tae Dasond mate farmavel cche ane arbastan ma badha pasae taeona hakem leta hata
2] Khumz, panchmo hisso je Imamno cche
3] zakat fakiro ane miskino mate cche
upar na sagda haqqo amara ccheane amae temathi jeo haqdar cche teone pahochta kariyae cche. Aa Khudai Farman tamara uper anadi kalthi cche.
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I have to clarify that khumz usually applies to spoils of war or sudden windfall profits like an inheritance (I think).
SHAMS
Dasond is not Zakat
KIM part I first Farman Page 3 Imam SMS 1st September 1885
1] Ushra Allah je Quran ma cche tae Dasond mate farmavel cche ane arbastan ma badha pasae taeona hakem leta hata
2] Khumz, panchmo hisso je Imamno cche
3] zakat fakiro ane miskino mate cche
upar na sagda haqqo amara ccheane amae temathi jeo haqdar cche teone pahochta kariyae cche. Aa Khudai Farman tamara uper anadi kalthi cche.
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I have to clarify that khumz usually applies to spoils of war or sudden windfall profits like an inheritance (I think).
SHAMS
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star_munir
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Mawla Ali Madad
What I think is that dasond includes zakat,ushr,khums etc
zakat is Arabic word,In Gita word Dasand is used for that and in Ginan Dasond is used.
Although zakat money is for the help of poor but dasond money includes zakat,ushr etc. Ismailis living in Isalmic countries use to fill zakat form as they give dasond in Jamat Khana so they not give Zakat.
You write the Farman that Imam said Ushra Allah je Quran ma cche tae Dasond mate farmavel cche ane arbastan ma badha pasae taeona hakem leta hata According to Syed Imam Shah also dasond money is for material upkeep and food for Imam. But at the same time Imam not use all the dasond money for His personal use. He helped the poor and we get reward for that. This money of dasond is used in institutions. Like at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] Prophet used to collect Zakat or people handover thier zakat to Nabi and not directly to poor we also give our zakat our dasond to Imam as He knows better who needs it more.Pir Hassan Kabir Din in Annan Akharo said that if you give your Dasond money to some one else other than Imam than it would be like salty water of sea which can not be use for drinking purpose.
What I want to tell is that dasond includes Zakat,Ushar Allah and every thing else.
What I think is that dasond includes zakat,ushr,khums etc
zakat is Arabic word,In Gita word Dasand is used for that and in Ginan Dasond is used.
Although zakat money is for the help of poor but dasond money includes zakat,ushr etc. Ismailis living in Isalmic countries use to fill zakat form as they give dasond in Jamat Khana so they not give Zakat.
You write the Farman that Imam said Ushra Allah je Quran ma cche tae Dasond mate farmavel cche ane arbastan ma badha pasae taeona hakem leta hata According to Syed Imam Shah also dasond money is for material upkeep and food for Imam. But at the same time Imam not use all the dasond money for His personal use. He helped the poor and we get reward for that. This money of dasond is used in institutions. Like at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] Prophet used to collect Zakat or people handover thier zakat to Nabi and not directly to poor we also give our zakat our dasond to Imam as He knows better who needs it more.Pir Hassan Kabir Din in Annan Akharo said that if you give your Dasond money to some one else other than Imam than it would be like salty water of sea which can not be use for drinking purpose.
What I want to tell is that dasond includes Zakat,Ushar Allah and every thing else.
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star_munir
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Once when Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah came to give deedar, a man gave him money and said it is my dasond. Imam replied give it in Jamat Khana. He said I do not have trust that if I will give dasond in Jamat Khana they will handover my money to you therefore I am giving this directly to you. Imam said throw this dasond in sea I will get it from there. According to the order of Imam he did so.
When next time Imam came to give deedar. He returned him his handker chief [roomal] . It was the same handkerchief in which he had put dasond money and than he had thrown it in sea.
This miracle gives us lesson that Imam can get money from every where. We should not be worried of. He can even get money from sea if we have true spirit.
When next time Imam came to give deedar. He returned him his handker chief [roomal] . It was the same handkerchief in which he had put dasond money and than he had thrown it in sea.
This miracle gives us lesson that Imam can get money from every where. We should not be worried of. He can even get money from sea if we have true spirit.
star_munir wrote:Once when Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah came to give deedar, a man gave him money and said it is my dasond. Imam replied give it in Jamat Khana. He said I do not have trust that if I will give dasond in Jamat Khana they will handover my money to you therefore I am giving this directly to you. Imam said throw this dasond in sea I will get it from there. According to the order of Imam he did so.
When next time Imam came to give deedar. He returned him his handker chief [roomal] . It was the same handkerchief in which he had put dasond money and than he had thrown it in sea.
This miracle gives us lesson that Imam can get money from every where. We should not be worried of. He can even get money from sea if we have true spirit.
How do u know this? Is this really true?
Eternity of Dasond.
This is getting interesting. I will begin this post with an appropriate verse from Granth "Anant Akhaado" and the saying of Prophet Muhammad on charity.
Aashaajee Sun-kaall maanhe thee rachanaa keedhee
tees deen dasond leekhaannee jee
Gur geenaan ved vichaaro
to dasond veena nahee chhuto............Haree anant..356
Oh Lord From the primordial void the Lord created the universe
it is from that day the practice of the tithe has been
established
If you reflect upon the guidance of the Guide and the
scriptures including the ginaans and the vedas
you will realise that without the tithe , the salvation
of the soul is not possible
Haree You are eternal...
The best of alms is that which the right hand giveth and left hand knoweth not of.(Saying of the Prophet)
From the verse of the ginan above, we can see that the practice of Dasond has been established since creation. It is an eternal concept and it is not based upon the Quran. Therefore we may use Quranic concepts of "Ushr" and "Zakat" to articulate this concept in certain contexts particularly in some parts of the Muslim world. This is similar to the concept of Imamat. We use Quranic notions to give it legitimacy but we know that Imamat is an eternal institution. In my view Imamat is connected to Dasond.
What is important from my point of view is that we ourselves must understand it correctly. In my opinion the charity that we give to Mukhi/Kamadia in Jamatkhana in a discrete manner as alluded in the above mentioned saying of the Prophet, is Dasond. The rest of the charities cannot be regarded as Dasond. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad is clearly hinting to that in his conversation with Itmadi Zaveri. Offcourse, if you have nowhere to give it to and if you placed it in the ocean, surely it will reach the Imam but we do have Jamatkhanas and that is where it must be submitted.
Aashaajee Sun-kaall maanhe thee rachanaa keedhee
tees deen dasond leekhaannee jee
Gur geenaan ved vichaaro
to dasond veena nahee chhuto............Haree anant..356
Oh Lord From the primordial void the Lord created the universe
it is from that day the practice of the tithe has been
established
If you reflect upon the guidance of the Guide and the
scriptures including the ginaans and the vedas
you will realise that without the tithe , the salvation
of the soul is not possible
Haree You are eternal...
The best of alms is that which the right hand giveth and left hand knoweth not of.(Saying of the Prophet)
From the verse of the ginan above, we can see that the practice of Dasond has been established since creation. It is an eternal concept and it is not based upon the Quran. Therefore we may use Quranic concepts of "Ushr" and "Zakat" to articulate this concept in certain contexts particularly in some parts of the Muslim world. This is similar to the concept of Imamat. We use Quranic notions to give it legitimacy but we know that Imamat is an eternal institution. In my view Imamat is connected to Dasond.
What is important from my point of view is that we ourselves must understand it correctly. In my opinion the charity that we give to Mukhi/Kamadia in Jamatkhana in a discrete manner as alluded in the above mentioned saying of the Prophet, is Dasond. The rest of the charities cannot be regarded as Dasond. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad is clearly hinting to that in his conversation with Itmadi Zaveri. Offcourse, if you have nowhere to give it to and if you placed it in the ocean, surely it will reach the Imam but we do have Jamatkhanas and that is where it must be submitted.
Re: Dasond is not Zakat
I would like to type up the continuation of the above Farmanshamsu wrote:Ya aly Madad Munir
Dasond is not Zakat
KIM part I first Farman Page 3 Imam SMS 1st September 1885
1] Ushra Allah je Quran ma cche tae Dasond mate farmavel cche ane arbastan ma badha pasae taeona hakem leta hata
2] Khumz, panchmo hisso je Imamno cche
3] zakat fakiro ane miskino mate cche
upar na sagda haqqo amara ccheane amae temathi jeo haqdar cche teone pahochta kariyae cche. Aa Khudai Farman tamara uper anadi kalthi cche.
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I have to clarify that khumz usually applies to spoils of war or sudden windfall profits like an inheritance (I think).
SHAMS
Aa Khudai Farman tamara uper anadikal thi cche. Agauna je Raja thai gaiya teoae pun aa hukam ma ferfar karya nathi, toe hal koi ferfar karwa mange toe kem thai shakae?
kmaherali I appreciate the ginan kadi
please try to obtain KIM part 1 and re read this chapter it is Farman number 1
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
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star_munir
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Oh Lord From the primordial void the Lord created the universe
it is from that day the practice of the tithe has been
established
If you reflect upon the guidance of the Guide and the
scriptures including the ginaans and the vedas
you will realise that without the tithe , the salvation
of the soul is not possible
Haree You are eternal...
[ Anant Akhado]
From reading Quran we know that concept of Dasond is not new,it was obligatory at the time of Hazrat Ibrahim,it was obligatory at the time of Hazrat Ismail,it was obligatory at the time of Jesus,at the time of Moses and at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH].It was also at the time of Hazrat Dawood.
You will find the concept very similar to Dasond also in Bible and in Geeta.
Infact the word Dasond is derived from Gujrati,Sanskrit and Hindi word Dasand which is used in hindu scripture.
Zakat not only means money to help the poor. In Quran that Neiki ye nahi ke apna mun mashriq [east] ya magrib [west] ki taraf ker lo haa naiki ye hai ke iman laye Allah per aur farishto [angels] aur kitab aur paigambaro per or Allah ki mohabbat mai apna aziz [precious] maal [wealth] de rishteydaro [relatives] AUR YATEEMO AUR MASKEENO AUR RAHGEER AUR SAELOO [BEGGARS] KO AUR GARDANEE CHURANNE MAI aur namaz kayam rakhe AUR ZAKAT DE............
For giving Dasond its big reward. Pir Sadardin says
Pelu laine paache aale
jem sudama ne per
swami maro ewo che je keno no rakhee bhar
aik war saami ne aale to sami aale so so war
it is from that day the practice of the tithe has been
established
If you reflect upon the guidance of the Guide and the
scriptures including the ginaans and the vedas
you will realise that without the tithe , the salvation
of the soul is not possible
Haree You are eternal...
[ Anant Akhado]
From reading Quran we know that concept of Dasond is not new,it was obligatory at the time of Hazrat Ibrahim,it was obligatory at the time of Hazrat Ismail,it was obligatory at the time of Jesus,at the time of Moses and at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH].It was also at the time of Hazrat Dawood.
You will find the concept very similar to Dasond also in Bible and in Geeta.
Infact the word Dasond is derived from Gujrati,Sanskrit and Hindi word Dasand which is used in hindu scripture.
Zakat not only means money to help the poor. In Quran that Neiki ye nahi ke apna mun mashriq [east] ya magrib [west] ki taraf ker lo haa naiki ye hai ke iman laye Allah per aur farishto [angels] aur kitab aur paigambaro per or Allah ki mohabbat mai apna aziz [precious] maal [wealth] de rishteydaro [relatives] AUR YATEEMO AUR MASKEENO AUR RAHGEER AUR SAELOO [BEGGARS] KO AUR GARDANEE CHURANNE MAI aur namaz kayam rakhe AUR ZAKAT DE............
For giving Dasond its big reward. Pir Sadardin says
Pelu laine paache aale
jem sudama ne per
swami maro ewo che je keno no rakhee bhar
aik war saami ne aale to sami aale so so war
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alinizar313
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Batuni meaning of Dasond
Yam
I think everyone is right acording to one's level of thinkng as far as exoteric meaning is concerned. And everyone must abide by that. If we will not follow Zahir, we can't go to batin. Three times Dua, dasond are obligatory but you ever think that dasond is repeatedly mentiond in Baitul Khayal farmans and also for spiritual upliiftment. In farmans and ginans, the word "Kheri Dasond "( Actual Dasond ), "Chhokhi Dasond "( Pure Dasond ) is mentioned. We ever think what does it mean? I can't mention here the esoteric meaning of Dasond. If most of us know then fine. If someone is interested, he can send me private message as we can't mention the Khangi farman here.
My Rooh dost, all our customs, kiryas and majalis have esoteric meaning. When Imam says that our religion is esoteric then why don't we strive for that. We swim on the surface of water and it is better than those who do not know or don't want to know how to swim. But now we should try to go deep into the ocean and take out the pearls.
I think everyone is right acording to one's level of thinkng as far as exoteric meaning is concerned. And everyone must abide by that. If we will not follow Zahir, we can't go to batin. Three times Dua, dasond are obligatory but you ever think that dasond is repeatedly mentiond in Baitul Khayal farmans and also for spiritual upliiftment. In farmans and ginans, the word "Kheri Dasond "( Actual Dasond ), "Chhokhi Dasond "( Pure Dasond ) is mentioned. We ever think what does it mean? I can't mention here the esoteric meaning of Dasond. If most of us know then fine. If someone is interested, he can send me private message as we can't mention the Khangi farman here.
My Rooh dost, all our customs, kiryas and majalis have esoteric meaning. When Imam says that our religion is esoteric then why don't we strive for that. We swim on the surface of water and it is better than those who do not know or don't want to know how to swim. But now we should try to go deep into the ocean and take out the pearls.
Dasond
Well the Dasond of a persons time "aath pore me vanjara tu kya kamata hai uth jaag mann mera......?
Dasond of a persons deeds
Dasond of a persons words
Dasond of Khayal
Dasond of Dil
Dasond of love
then comes increasing the dasond % of love
Reference to Imam SMS Farman of the different types of people. the type that only love Imam and nothing else.
tame eva thao ke tamaro sharir tamari pasae hoi ane dil amari pasae hoi.
May you become such that your body stays with you but your heart stays with me.
Eventually Ismailism is only about Dasond and nothing else. What I mean is this type of Dasond of Love.
Shams
Dasond of a persons deeds
Dasond of a persons words
Dasond of Khayal
Dasond of Dil
Dasond of love
then comes increasing the dasond % of love
Reference to Imam SMS Farman of the different types of people. the type that only love Imam and nothing else.
tame eva thao ke tamaro sharir tamari pasae hoi ane dil amari pasae hoi.
May you become such that your body stays with you but your heart stays with me.
Eventually Ismailism is only about Dasond and nothing else. What I mean is this type of Dasond of Love.
Shams
Re: Dasond
The following verse of Saloko Moto resonates this messageshamsu wrote:tame eva thao ke tamaro sharir tamari pasae hoi ane dil amari pasae hoi.
May you become such that your body stays with you but your heart stays with me.
Shams
satgur kahere: jene kaleje baann laagaa neh tannaa
tenee ddhrashttee kem avare jaay
tenu pee(n)ddh chaale murt lokmaa(n)
tenee surtee aakaash jaay re....................16
The True Guide says: Whoever's liver has been pierced by the arrow of love, how can this person's vision go astray. This person's body will move in the physical plane(the earth), where as the consciousness will be in the heavens.
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star_munir
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Dasond money is like fire. If some one thinks that he will steal dasond and become rich is foolish because any one who will steal dasond,dasond money like fire will burn all his wealth and he will be totally destroyed.
First world war was due to Germany. At that time Turkey was big country whose king was called as Khalifa and his name was Sultan Abdul Hameed. His kingdom ranges from Morroco to Indonesia . At the time of war there was great need of money. Turkey and Germany were freinds. Some one told khalifa that there are ismailis living in Salimiya [Sirya] who have lot of money which they are going to send to Aga Khan.Due to war,the money of dasond,mehmani etc was not sent and mukhi burried that money. Khalifa wrote letter to governer take all money from mukhi and if he refuse to give than arrest him. Mukhi did not tell where is dasond money so he along with dai was arrested .Jamat was very upset. 2 ismailis decided to tell this to Imam and they went to Karachi . Imagine from syria to Karachi without any transport,by walking.
Kamadia told Imam that our mukhi and dai were arrested.
Imam knows every thing. Imam tell them that they were died in prison. Than Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah said Abdul hammed se kaho tum ne humaray mukhi aur dai ko mar dala tumhari sultanat kai tukray tukray ho jayenge and within 2 years Turkey was divided and many countries become out of it. Today Turkey is small country and it is also due to efforts of Imam otherwise today there would be no Turkey.
First world war was due to Germany. At that time Turkey was big country whose king was called as Khalifa and his name was Sultan Abdul Hameed. His kingdom ranges from Morroco to Indonesia . At the time of war there was great need of money. Turkey and Germany were freinds. Some one told khalifa that there are ismailis living in Salimiya [Sirya] who have lot of money which they are going to send to Aga Khan.Due to war,the money of dasond,mehmani etc was not sent and mukhi burried that money. Khalifa wrote letter to governer take all money from mukhi and if he refuse to give than arrest him. Mukhi did not tell where is dasond money so he along with dai was arrested .Jamat was very upset. 2 ismailis decided to tell this to Imam and they went to Karachi . Imagine from syria to Karachi without any transport,by walking.
Kamadia told Imam that our mukhi and dai were arrested.
Imam knows every thing. Imam tell them that they were died in prison. Than Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah said Abdul hammed se kaho tum ne humaray mukhi aur dai ko mar dala tumhari sultanat kai tukray tukray ho jayenge and within 2 years Turkey was divided and many countries become out of it. Today Turkey is small country and it is also due to efforts of Imam otherwise today there would be no Turkey.
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alinizar313
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Esoterc meaning of Dasond
Always remember that there are four meanings of Quran,Farman and all important Kiryas like dasond, dua, chanta etc.
1. Shariat of the Shariat
2. Haqiqat of that Shariat
3. Shariat of the Haqiqat
4. Haqiqat of that Haqiqat.
Here we will discuss only first three as the fourth one is pure Magaz.
!. Shariat of shariat: That is what was already discussed above by diffeernt people and is correct.
2. Haqiqat of that shariat: we give dasond and make our rozi Halal. When
we eat, it changes into blood and that blood circulates all around the body and that makes our life possible. Now that blood goes to our mind and makes our thought pure and Paak. Inspite of this if some evil thought comes in our mind, another good thought comes into play and warn us that this is wrong. If our dasond will not pure, then we will see if we are doing something wrong then another thought patronized by Satan or nafs will reinforce the former one and we think we are doing right, That is why we sometimes argue to make ways to justify our wrong doing.
As far as heart is concerned, it depands that who is governing it. If our dasond is not pure then the heart will be governed by Nafs-e-Ammaara. And then we say that My heart (mera Dil ) is saying yhat I am right but actually it is the voice of your Mun (Nafs) It was Manji Bhai, not Aliji Bhai.
Next postig will be on Shariat Of Haqiqat.
1. Shariat of the Shariat
2. Haqiqat of that Shariat
3. Shariat of the Haqiqat
4. Haqiqat of that Haqiqat.
Here we will discuss only first three as the fourth one is pure Magaz.
!. Shariat of shariat: That is what was already discussed above by diffeernt people and is correct.
2. Haqiqat of that shariat: we give dasond and make our rozi Halal. When
we eat, it changes into blood and that blood circulates all around the body and that makes our life possible. Now that blood goes to our mind and makes our thought pure and Paak. Inspite of this if some evil thought comes in our mind, another good thought comes into play and warn us that this is wrong. If our dasond will not pure, then we will see if we are doing something wrong then another thought patronized by Satan or nafs will reinforce the former one and we think we are doing right, That is why we sometimes argue to make ways to justify our wrong doing.
As far as heart is concerned, it depands that who is governing it. If our dasond is not pure then the heart will be governed by Nafs-e-Ammaara. And then we say that My heart (mera Dil ) is saying yhat I am right but actually it is the voice of your Mun (Nafs) It was Manji Bhai, not Aliji Bhai.
Next postig will be on Shariat Of Haqiqat.
FYI
Ya Ali Madad
Just for your information,
Mormons of Utah, USA also pay their form of "dasond" (1/8 of what they earn) to Jesus. However, since they believe Jesus will come back soon they have put all the money in a bank and have collected more than $15 billion. This was a cover story of Time Magazine about 3 or 4 years ago. I thought this was interesting and just felt like sharing
THANKS
Karim Qazi
Just for your information,
Mormons of Utah, USA also pay their form of "dasond" (1/8 of what they earn) to Jesus. However, since they believe Jesus will come back soon they have put all the money in a bank and have collected more than $15 billion. This was a cover story of Time Magazine about 3 or 4 years ago. I thought this was interesting and just felt like sharing
THANKS
Karim Qazi
-
Guest
Re: FYI
It is indeed interesting. It serves to underscore the universality of the concept of Dasond. This principle can serve as a bridge between Christianity and Islam in practical terms as highlighted by Prince Alykhan in his speech delivered on 27th May 1958(my birthday, that's why I remember it!).karimqazi wrote:Ya Ali Madad
Just for your information,
Mormons of Utah, USA also pay their form of "dasond" (1/8 of what they earn) to Jesus. However, since they believe Jesus will come back soon they have put all the money in a bank and have collected more than $15 billion. This was a cover story of Time Magazine about 3 or 4 years ago. I thought this was interesting and just felt like sharing
THANKS
Karim Qazi
Karim
Re: Esoterc meaning of Dasond
Now the only reliable way to judge if the voice should be followed is to tally it with the farmans of Imam.alinizar313 wrote:Always remember that there are four meanings of Quran,Farman and all important Kiryas like dasond, dua, chanta etc.
1. Shariat of the Shariat
2. Haqiqat of that Shariat
3. Shariat of the Haqiqat
4. Haqiqat of that Haqiqat.
Here we will discuss only first three as the fourth one is pure Magaz.
!. Shariat of shariat: That is what was already discussed above by diffeernt people and is correct.
2. Haqiqat of that shariat: we give dasond and make our rozi Halal. When
we eat, it changes into blood and that blood circulates all around the body and that makes our life possible. Now that blood goes to our mind and makes our thought pure and Paak. Inspite of this if some evil thought comes in our mind, another good thought comes into play and warn us that this is wrong. If our dasond will not pure, then we will see if we are doing something wrong then another thought patronized by Satan or nafs will reinforce the former one and we think we are doing right, That is why we sometimes argue to make ways to justify our wrong doing.
As far as heart is concerned, it depands that who is governing it. If our dasond is not pure then the heart will be governed by Nafs-e-Ammaara. And then we say that My heart (mera Dil ) is saying yhat I am right but actually it is the voice of your Mun (Nafs) It was Manji Bhai, not Aliji Bhai.
Next postig will be on Shariat Of Haqiqat.
If it is according to the farmans of Mowla then you are saved if not then you are getting deeper into the bhool bhulaiyan of this physical world.
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alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
Dasond
In last posting we discussed esoteric asperct of dasond on Shariat level. Now today we'll throw some light on dasond at Haqiqat level,
Again there are two sides at this level i,e Shariat of the Haqiqat and Haqiqat of that Haqiqat.
Exoteric meaning of Dasond at Haqiqat level:
I think we generally believe that whatever we earned in our worldly life is all belongs to mowla bapa and therefore we should give dasond. Now the logic behind this is, we earned by spending our precious breaths (DUM).And we make our Earning (ROZI) Halal or Haq ni rozi.Right. Now Listen to the firman of SMS " Jaiy shakhs ibadat nathi kerto te haq ni rozi nathi khaato ane tena dil ooper shaitan kaboo keri ne tenoo iman luti jae chhhaiy". It means the one who does not do ibadat, does not eat Halal rozi, and the Satan will take over on his heart and take away his Iman. Therefore Ibadat is our dasond here but how? Daily we are given 24 hours or 21600 Dam, Out of this we have to spend at least 3 hours (1/8 of 24 ) or 2700 dum to mowla. one hour bandagi of baitul khayal and two hour dua and other activities. If we divide dasond in two parts , then 1/10th belongs to Imam and 1/40th for Pir. Now the Ibadat represent Imam and Knowledge represent Pir. So actually we should spend at least 36 minutes to Ilm Including all jamati ceremony and 2 hour and24 minutes for Ibadat.
Then comes other mandali and so on. I do not want to discuss beyond this point. It is just partial interpretation of Dasond on Haqiqat level. Please do not discuss further. If anyone want to go further ahead, it is better to use Private messages. Firman of Baitul Khayal can help a lot on this matter.
Again there are two sides at this level i,e Shariat of the Haqiqat and Haqiqat of that Haqiqat.
Exoteric meaning of Dasond at Haqiqat level:
I think we generally believe that whatever we earned in our worldly life is all belongs to mowla bapa and therefore we should give dasond. Now the logic behind this is, we earned by spending our precious breaths (DUM).And we make our Earning (ROZI) Halal or Haq ni rozi.Right. Now Listen to the firman of SMS " Jaiy shakhs ibadat nathi kerto te haq ni rozi nathi khaato ane tena dil ooper shaitan kaboo keri ne tenoo iman luti jae chhhaiy". It means the one who does not do ibadat, does not eat Halal rozi, and the Satan will take over on his heart and take away his Iman. Therefore Ibadat is our dasond here but how? Daily we are given 24 hours or 21600 Dam, Out of this we have to spend at least 3 hours (1/8 of 24 ) or 2700 dum to mowla. one hour bandagi of baitul khayal and two hour dua and other activities. If we divide dasond in two parts , then 1/10th belongs to Imam and 1/40th for Pir. Now the Ibadat represent Imam and Knowledge represent Pir. So actually we should spend at least 36 minutes to Ilm Including all jamati ceremony and 2 hour and24 minutes for Ibadat.
Then comes other mandali and so on. I do not want to discuss beyond this point. It is just partial interpretation of Dasond on Haqiqat level. Please do not discuss further. If anyone want to go further ahead, it is better to use Private messages. Firman of Baitul Khayal can help a lot on this matter.
Re: Dasond
Aashaajee Paanch-mee baaree dasond-nee kaheeyenalinizar313 wrote:In last posting we discussed esoteric asperct of dasond on Shariat level. Now today we'll throw some light on dasond at Haqiqat level,
Again there are two sides at this level i,e Shariat of the Haqiqat and Haqiqat of that Haqiqat.
Exoteric meaning of Dasond at Haqiqat level:
I think we generally believe that whatever we earned in our worldly life is all belongs to mowla bapa and therefore we should give dasond. Now the logic behind this is, we earned by spending our precious breaths (DUM).And we make our Earning (ROZI) Halal or Haq ni rozi.Right. Now Listen to the firman of SMS " Jaiy shakhs ibadat nathi kerto te haq ni rozi nathi khaato ane tena dil ooper shaitan kaboo keri ne tenoo iman luti jae chhhaiy". It means the one who does not do ibadat, does not eat Halal rozi, and the Satan will take over on his heart and take away his Iman. Therefore Ibadat is our dasond here but how? Daily we are given 24 hours or 21600 Dam, Out of this we have to spend at least 3 hours (1/8 of 24 ) or 2700 dum to mowla. one hour bandagi of baitul khayal and two hour dua and other activities. If we divide dasond in two parts , then 1/10th belongs to Imam and 1/40th for Pir. Now the Ibadat represent Imam and Knowledge represent Pir. So actually we should spend at least 36 minutes to Ilm Including all jamati ceremony and 2 hour and24 minutes for Ibadat.
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te sahu thee mottee jaanno jee
te maanhe tame raho husheeyaar
to rahesho Gur-Nar ne saath.............Haree anant..256
Oh Lord The fifth gateway is created by observance of the tithe
know it as the biggest one
Remain intelligent and alert in this aspect
then you will constantly be with the Shah-Pir
Haree You are eternal...
Without getting bogged down to technical terms and resorting to restricted firmans, I think as mentioned by Shamshu, if Dasond and Dua is taken care of, then the rest falls into place. As Pir Hassan Kabirdeen says in the above verse, if you are intelligent about Dasond then you will be in the presence of Shah-Pir. When that happens then the whole life becomes Ibadaat and not just 3-4 hrs or whatever. When you are with Shah-Pir, then everything that is necessary for your spiritual and material progress will come to you even without being aware of it! There will be abundance in life, regardless of external circumstances.
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alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
Esoteric meaning of Dasond
I really pleased to read the comments of Kmehrali. I have to mention in Haqiqat of Haqiqat of Dasond for what you have told. And I told that I would not talk of Haqiqat of Haqiqat as I was of the view that the people might not digest or misunderstand the pure Magaz. Now you break the ice so from now I can freely explained my point of view ( in the light of Ginan and firman). I will finish by this Kalam:
Rehmat rub ki weh koi pavaiy, Jo zikr kare her dum
Jo ek dum zikr kerne se chuka, to khushi ne pavaiy likhavey gum
Rub derga hazar he, jo zikr kare kaseb
Jo ek dum zikr kerne se chuka, to rub keraiy oos per gazab
Rehmat rub ki weh koi pavaiy, Jo zikr kare her dum
Jo ek dum zikr kerne se chuka, to khushi ne pavaiy likhavey gum
Rub derga hazar he, jo zikr kare kaseb
Jo ek dum zikr kerne se chuka, to rub keraiy oos per gazab
Zikr
Ya Aly Madad AliNizar313
I had a question
Zikr means to remember
you can only remember when you have forgotten
What happens when you do not do zikr for the above reason?
What would you call that
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
Another thing
We think we do Zikr when the Haqiqat is that the Zikr does us.
If you understand this aspect which is almost impossible to understand you realize that you cannot ever do Zikr.
As soon as you think you do Zikr you have alienated yourself from the haqiqat of Zikr and you start all over again trying to come close to he who is closer to you than yourself.
I am sure the ginan reference is alive in the minds of those who have not moved on already and are still with me.
More on this after a few replies have been posted
Shams
I had a question
Zikr means to remember
you can only remember when you have forgotten
What happens when you do not do zikr for the above reason?
What would you call that
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
Another thing
We think we do Zikr when the Haqiqat is that the Zikr does us.
If you understand this aspect which is almost impossible to understand you realize that you cannot ever do Zikr.
As soon as you think you do Zikr you have alienated yourself from the haqiqat of Zikr and you start all over again trying to come close to he who is closer to you than yourself.
I am sure the ginan reference is alive in the minds of those who have not moved on already and are still with me.
More on this after a few replies have been posted
Shams
An anecdote of a similar nature is given in the following excerpt of an article written by Alwaez Abually. This sounds more authentic and hence gives a degree of credibility to the anecdote quoted by star_munir.jasmine wrote:star_munir wrote:Once when Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah came to give deedar, a man gave him money and said it is my dasond. Imam replied give it in Jamat Khana. He said I do not have trust that if I will give dasond in Jamat Khana they will handover my money to you therefore I am giving this directly to you. Imam said throw this dasond in sea I will get it from there. According to the order of Imam he did so.
When next time Imam came to give deedar. He returned him his handker chief [roomal] . It was the same handkerchief in which he had put dasond money and than he had thrown it in sea.
This miracle gives us lesson that Imam can get money from every where. We should not be worried of. He can even get money from sea if we have true spirit.
How do u know this? Is this really true?
History of Titles
RAIHI
It means a traveller in Persian language. The word Rahi has become Rai by use in India. A Rahi was a roving minister. He was also a preacher-cum-collector. He used to travel from place to place, in his allotted area or province, preaching and collecting karsazi (sarkar sahibi) and returned to the Darkhana to report once or twice a year.
The Rahis used to travel on foot most of the time through dangerous jungles infested with wild animals, poisonous insects and reptiles and of course with robbers'. They had to face extreme climates of the desert and of the snow laden mountains, freezing air and blizzards. But they served their Imam-e-Zaman with devotion and unbelievable courage. (See the Ginan "Shah na khatt aaya veera Jumpoo Deepp ma verses 6-10). This verse of this Ginan reveals that even the Dargahis used to travel on order of the Holy Imam.
Among the famous Rahis of recent time there were Rahi Booran -in the Punjab, during the Imamat of Mowlana Imam Aga Hassanali Shah; Rahi Haji Nazerali in Kathiawar during the Imamat of Mowlana Imam Aga Hassanali Shah, Mowlana Imam Aga Ali Shah; Rahi Ram Kawr in N.W. F. province and Afghanistan during the Imamat of Mowlana Imam Aga Ali Shah and Mowlana Imam Aga Sultan Mohammed Shah.
The following interesting story will amaze the reader about the presence of mind and courage of Rahi Ram Kawr. He was returning from his last visit to Afghanistan in 1916 when he was about eighty years old. He had collected the karsazi to be taken to the Darkhana in Bombay. It was the war time; travelling was hazardous and dangerous.
He started from Kabul on foot and somehow crossed the frontier through the Khyber Pass near Landi Khana. The only luggage he had was a sack of cloth in which he kept his clothes and food and in the middle of that sack hidden in the clothes was a bundle of the karsazi. Somehow a robber came to know that the old man had some money and ornaments. He followed him from the frontier. At Peshawar they boarded a train which terminated on the west bark of the river Attock. All the ongoing passengers must cross the river by boat to board another train on the other side. The bridge was under construction.
The sun was setting. The Pathan robber pretended to be a friend of the old man. He hired a boat and offered the old man to join him. But the old man said he would pay his half share. It was a small boat and there were only two passengers, the robber and the Rahi. When the boat arrived in the middle of the river the robber drew a large knife and stood up and ordered the Rahi to give him the bundle of ornaments he was carrying in 'the sack, or he would be killed and thrown in. The Rahi Ram Kawr smiled and showed no panic. He remembered the Lord and started opening the sack. First all he removed the foodstuff and then some clothes. And then all of a sudden he picked up the bundle an threw it in the heavy current of the water saying "Ya Ali tera maal" (Ya Ali take your property).
The robber and the boatman were stunned. The Rahi explained to them that the bundle contained something of his sweetheart who had instructed him not to show it to anyone. He further explained that if he had t him (the robber) about that in advance he would have disbelieved and definitely taken it by force; and that he would have broken his vow. The drama was over. The robber became disappointed. He withdrew his knife but gave the Rahi a few slaps and sat down.
After 24 hours' train journey from Attock to Amritsar my birth place and home town) Rahi Ram Kawr arrived at our home utterly shaken. When he met my grandfather Kameria Aziz Ali (they were old friends) he threw his head on the shoulder of my grandfather and cried like a child. He said that no one would believe that story. All would think that he had stolen the karsazi. Alas it had happened at the time when he was nearing his grave he said. My grandfather gave him consolation that Mowla knew every thing therefore he should not be worried.
The Rahi fell sick. He was confined to bed for more than a month at our home. At last after two months of his arrival he proceeded to Bombay to report to the Holy Imam. My grandfather accompanied him.
Immediately after arriving in Bombay he went to see Kameria Haji to arrange for an appointment with the Holy Imam. As soon as Rahi Ram Kawr entered into the room where Mowla was waiting to receive him. He started trembling and after a few steps he fell down. Mowlana Imam Aga Sultan Mohammed Shah lifted him up and said sweetly that the karsazi he had earlier dropped into the Attock was well received so he should not worry. The Rahi was astonished because no one else except Kameria Aziz Ali knew the story and - they both were travelling together.
The Holy Imam then asked the Rahi to narrate the incident which he did in detail. Mowla assured him that He protected and saved him. The Holy Imam declared him as a very brave man, true honest servant and gave him His blessings. After a few months the Rahi died.
As the postal and banking services after the World War-I became more facilitative the services of the collectors of karsazi were no longer required except in a few remote places. Thus the appointment of active Rahis and the Pragna Kamerias was gradually reduced. But the title of Rahi continued to be bestowed upon the elected servants of the Holy Imams