Contacting Local Tariqa Board

[marcello09]

How does one contact a Local Tariqa Board? I've been searching all over the internet for lists of contact information and I haven't found anything.

I am interested in learning more about Ismaili Islam, and perhaps someday I might convert. I am near Detroit, Michigan, USA.

Many thanks and peace to you all, Marcello

[marcello09]

I might be making progress! Apparently there's a place called the "Ismaili Center" in Southfield, which is about 15 miles outside of Detroit. Does anyone have any information about this place? Is it a mosque, cultural center, business or perhaps all of the above? I've got a phone number for them, but no-one is answering at the moment (it's after hours, anyway).

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

-- Marcello

[ShamsB]

Please email me

[email protected]

Shams

[marcello09]

For anyone else who's looking for Ismaili organizations in the United States, I found a list here:

http://ismailiblog.com/forums/thread/24.aspx

P.S. Thanks for your email addy, Shams! I've sent you a message.

[marcello09]

I've finally got the number for the U.S. National Council:

(281) 980 4747

Hopefully they'll be able to get me contact info for the Michigan Council.

Thanks to Sarah from the Windsor (Canada) Ismaili Students Association for helping out!

[ShamsB]

For anyone else who's looking for Ismaili organizations in the United States, I found a list here:

http://ismailiblog.com/forums/thread/24.aspx

P.S. Thanks for your email addy, Shams! I've sent you a message.

Sorry, I've been busy with lectures, I did get your email and promise to respond soon.

Shams

[marcello09]

Sorry, I've been busy with lectures, I did get your email and promise to respond soon.

Shams

No problem, Shams! I just got a copy of "The Isma'ilis: Their History and Doctrines" by Farhad Daftary. It's a massive book, so I'll be plenty busy over the next few weeks myself!

[ShamsB]

Sorry, I've been busy with lectures, I did get your email and promise to respond soon.

Shams

No problem, Shams! I just got a copy of "The Isma'ilis: Their History and Doctrines" by Farhad Daftary. It's a massive book, so I'll be plenty busy over the next few weeks myself!

Read that with a grain of salt please.

Shams

[marcello09]

Read that with a grain of salt please.

Shams

Well, for cryin' out loud, what should I be reading? I've contacted over a dozen Ismaili organizations and haven't received a single response from any of them, with the exception of the Windsor ISA. So I go out and buy one of the few books that's available on the subject and apparently it's the wrong one. So what am I supposed to do? Sit on my rear end and wait for Ismaili knowledge to rain down like manna from heaven?

I don't mean for this to be a personal attack on anyone, but I feel that communities of faith consist of two vital elements: communities and faith. While I'm still very attracted to what little I know of the Ismaili Islamic faith, I'm increasingly frustrated with what appears on the surface to be an unwelcoming community. It could be that you're deliberately trying to discourage conversion. Or it could be that you're really nice people with astonishingly poor organizational skills. Who knows? I've got a feeling that I'm never going to find out.

If Ismaili Islam were the path for me, I doubt that Allah would have made it so difficult. For all the reservations that I have with the traditional Islamic faith, I've found the community to be warmly welcoming and supportive, and far more tolerant than I'd expected.

I appreciate your intentions, but Ismaili Islam is not the path for me.

[zubair_mahamood]

Read that with a grain of salt please.

Shams

Well, for cryin' out loud, what should I be reading? I've contacted over a dozen Ismaili organizations and haven't received a single response from any of them, with the exception of the Windsor ISA. So I go out and buy one of the few books that's available on the subject and apparently it's the wrong one. So what am I supposed to do? Sit on my rear end and wait for Ismaili knowledge to rain down like manna from heaven?

I don't mean for this to be a personal attack on anyone, but I feel that communities of faith consist of two vital elements: communities and faith. While I'm still very attracted to what little I know of the Ismaili Islamic faith, I'm increasingly frustrated with what appears on the surface to be an unwelcoming community. It could be that you're deliberately trying to discourage conversion. Or it could be that you're really nice people with astonishingly poor organizational skills. Who knows? I've got a feeling that I'm never going to find out.

If Ismaili Islam were the path for me, I doubt that Allah would have made it so difficult. For all the reservations that I have with the traditional Islamic faith, I've found the community to be warmly welcoming and supportive, and far more tolerant than I'd expected.

I appreciate your intentions, but Ismaili Islam is not the path for me.

Hello Brother,

If you’re serious knowledge will rain down from heaven…! That’s it! Where is you are patience…Patience is the key to Knowledge…. Read mahabarath read about Ekalavya and Karna…..! It’s not about winning or lossing….! its about finding truth, finding reality....!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekalavya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karna

You want to become Ismaili for the respect you get from society or from Allah… why do you expect Ismailies to help you… why don’t you help your self… call Allah for help I’m sure if your sincere you will find him… no need to run for faith… juts call him…!

Zubair Mahamood

[peace2you]

Does anyone know if it's harder to become Ismaili in the USA, then in other parts of the world ?

Are the requirements different for different parts of the world ?

~Peace2You

[zubair_mahamood]

Does anyone know if it's harder to become Ismaili in the USA, then in other parts of the world ?

Are the requirements different for different parts of the world ?

~Peace2You

I think the easiest way to become Ismaili on any part of the globe is to have feeling of being Ismaili in our heart it doesn’t need any required at all…!

I think anywhere it’s not easy to become official Ismaili… people in board r humans like us and make decisions on bases of simple calculation so normally it takes time which makes this process look hard…!

I think it’s not important to become Ismaili but it’s important to feel Ismaili, it important to understand relationship between creator and creation, it important to understand ourselves, our status … official recognition will give us access to Jamatkhana and some other resources but can’t give us Faith. Praying in Jamatkhana with Jamat doesn’t guaranty you Allah but Praying at any place with true devotion will… having access to all Farmans (other resources) of Imam doesn’t makes one follow them sincerely but making our duty to follow even a single farman can give us a place in Imam’s heart…!

I think conversion is simply administration process it doesn’t give a person faith. I think Faith is a trade of heart not a degree or a diploma which can be achieve by studying books or attending a school for a period of time. Sometimes a person can take a life time to understand his Faith or understand himself how can he make other understand it. I think faith is an electricity which can’t be tested by Humans with a tester because we can’t read someone else heart. No one can ever know other persons faith but can feel or to some extend observe by once behaviour. There is always insulation like for example: take a bulb attached to a wire, Plug in wire and switch on bulb when bulb is on by touching it u can feel heat and see light but u can’t exactly know how much volts of electricity is following (unless if u have tester to test) or by touching or by tying wire to your hand u can’t feel current as wire is insulated…. Or take for example a mobile phone there is sender and receiver we can’t see signals in air unless if we use some technology to read signal!

Can we humans have this tester or technology to read signals of heart? So I think it not possible to know exactly someone’s faith…

Check sura Yasin verses (36.01 to 36.10)

“Ya Sin.
By the Quran, full of wisdom,
Tho art indeed one of the apostles.
On a straight way.
It is a revelation sent down by(him), the exalted in might, Most Merciful.
In order that thou mayest admonish a people, whose fathers had received no admonition, and who therefore remains heedless( of the signs of GOD).
The word is proved true against the greater part of them: for they do not believe.
We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up( and they cannot see).
And we have put a bar in front of them and a bar behind them, and further, we have covered them up; so that they cannot see.
The same is it to them whether thou admonish them or thou do not admonish them: they will not believe”.

where Allah tell His apostle that even his apostle can’t convey some ppls Allah’s words as Allah has put bars in front and behind them….! So being a follower of Apostles how can we expect to convey our faith to others… People in Board are humans like us, it depends on once approach how his case will be treated…!

It’s my personal experience that even we can’t understand depth of our faith then how can other know our faith…. Few days back I was happy thinking I have a strong faith in Allah but next movement I feel I don’t have any, a small insect made me feel guilty…. One day when I was going to work I felt something on my hand I saw it was an insect, I feared it may hurt me so I gave a jerk to get rid of it… with in few minutes I felt I don’t have strong faith as I remember Mowlan Safina ullah raziullah u talaanu story (I don’t know whether I wrote correct spelling)… one day MSR got lost while crossing a forest, a lion came in front of him, he thought may be its his last day at the same time he remembered Allah… He said to lion before attacking me think who I am, if your king of forest I am servant (ghulam) of King of Prophets (Prophet Muhammad) then lion touched his feet and show him correct direction! I felt my faith is nothing in front of MSR faith he didn’t fear lion n I feared an insect…! I felt I must have such a faith..! Can anyone understand what’s happening inside our heart! I don’t think so….

So brother becoming Ismaili is easy feel you are Believer, I wouldn’t say its not important to go to Jamatkhana daily but it’s important to Pray daily with total devotion so that your heart become pure… they are two doors (zahir n batine), zahir door may take time open but batine door is always open u just need to enter…

Unconditional Believing in Hazar Imam makes a person Ismaili it has got nothing to do with conversion… You are Ismaili the day you believe and follow Hazar Imam in anyway… other formalities can be fulfilled one by one when time comes….. I would say it does makes difference if you are not official Ismaili….!

Zubair Mahamood

[peace2you]

Zubair Mahamood,

Thank You for your reply. It is much appreciated. You have given me something to ponder .

Peace

[star_munir]

Though it is mention in Farman of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah ki any one who want to accept Ismailism he/she is welcome and any one want to leave the faith then also he/she can do it freely. In past there were also cases in which few Ismailis had left the faith and then later realizing their mistake became again Ismaili. But things are much more difficult in current times.

Farman of Imam is clear on it. Yet its sad reality that as we see now those people who want to convert and become Ismaili have to pass many difficulties for conversion process. Yet after so many years their application remain pending or appropriate reply is not given.

The way marcello09 frustrated is natural and I can not say thats its his mistake to get frustrate from what has happened. Its true that one can be Ismaili from heart. But still if one is not officially Ismaili he or she can not attend Jamat Khana and participate in religious ceremonies.

[/u]

[zubair_mahamood]

But still if one is not officially Ismaili he or she can not attend Jamat Khana and participate in religious ceremonies.

Ya Ali Madaad Munir,

I dont blame anyone for this but This does make a difference... Standing on other side of the road feeling you are illegal child doesn’t this feeling makes a difference…DON’T U THINK…. People are humans not angles...

Zubair Mahamood

[star_munir]

But still if one is not officially Ismaili he or she can not attend Jamat Khana and participate in religious ceremonies.

Ya Ali Madaad Munir,

I dont blame anyone for this but This does make a difference... Standing on other side of the road feeling you are illegal child doesn’t this feeling makes a difference…DON’T U THINK…. People are humans not angles...

Zubair Mahamood

Mowla Ali Madad Zubair,

Sorry to say I dont understood what you said me in this post.
I had said that Its true that one can be Ismaili from heart But still if one is not officially Ismaili it makes some difference he or she can not attend Jamat Khana and participate in religious ceremonies.

The conversion process is very complicated and I dont think there is use to contact tariqa board for that. I dont think they will give appropriate response. There are many such cases. One such case I have mentioned in topic of marriages in current issues section yesterday.
I think one should contact and discuss with JK Mukhi Saheb or some senior Ismaili missionary instead of directly approaching to Tariqa board. They can help or give satisfactory reply.

[zubair_mahamood]

But still if one is not officially Ismaili he or she can not attend Jamat Khana and participate in religious ceremonies.

Ya Ali Madaad Munir,

I dont blame anyone for this but This does make a difference... Standing on other side of the road feeling you are illegal child doesn’t this feeling makes a difference…DON’T U THINK…. People are humans not angles...

Zubair Mahamood

Mowla Ali Madad Zubair,

Sorry to say I dont understood what you said me in this post.
I had said that Its true that one can be Ismaili from heart But still if one is not officially Ismaili it makes some difference he or she can not attend Jamat Khana and participate in religious ceremonies.

The conversion process is very complicated and I dont think there is use to contact tariqa board for that. I dont think they will give appropriate response. There are many such cases. One such case I have mentioned in topic of marriages in current issues section yesterday.
I think one should contact and discuss with JK Mukhi Saheb or some senior Ismaili missionary instead of directly approaching to Tariqa board. They can help or give satisfactory reply.

Ya Ali MAdaad munir,

I mean to say if one is Ismaili by heart and doesn’t have access to jk how does it feel.... Can any one keep there foot in his shoe? Can anyone live his life this way? It easy to talk n comment but live is not so simple!

I heard many time in law class in India... if 1000 criminals get freed by tribunal it ok but one innocent shouldn’t get punished.... can u be the one? Just wait for a minute and think how does it feel to be one? How does it feel when Hazar Imam is standing in JK and u haven’t got access to JK?

Divine Justice yes that what one can believe in!

Zubair Mahamood

[star_munir]

Ya Ali Madaad Munir,

I dont blame anyone for this but This does make a difference... Standing on other side of the road feeling you are illegal child doesn’t this feeling makes a difference…DON’T U THINK…. People are humans not angles...

Zubair Mahamood

Mowla Ali Madad Zubair,

Sorry to say I dont understood what you said me in this post.
I had said that Its true that one can be Ismaili from heart But still if one is not officially Ismaili it makes some difference he or she can not attend Jamat Khana and participate in religious ceremonies.

The conversion process is very complicated and I dont think there is use to contact tariqa board for that. I dont think they will give appropriate response. There are many such cases. One such case I have mentioned in topic of marriages in current issues section yesterday.
I think one should contact and discuss with JK Mukhi Saheb or some senior Ismaili missionary instead of directly approaching to Tariqa board. They can help or give satisfactory reply.

Ya Ali MAdaad munir,

I mean to say if one is Ismaili by heart and doesn’t have access to jk how does it feel.... Can any one keep there foot in his shoe? Can anyone live his life this way? It easy to talk n comment but live is not so simple!

I heard many time in law class in India... if 1000 criminals get freed by tribunal it ok but one innocent shouldn’t get punished.... can u be the one? Just wait for a minute and think how does it feel to be one? How does it feel when Hazar Imam is standing in JK and u haven’t got access to JK?

Divine Justice yes that what one can believe in!

Zubair Mahamood

Mowla Ali Madad Zubair,
I think you have misunderstood my point. If you read my post again on this topic then you may know I am saying the same thing.
I have said that it is in Farman that any one who want to embrace the faith can become ismaili and similarly if any one want to leave he or she is free to do so. I have said that in present time if some one one wants to convert then the process has become very complicated as compare to that in past. Infact I think that the process should not be so complicated as it is. I have not said that there is no difference between one who is officially Ismaili and one who is not.
There are many people who are not Ismaili but have faith in Hazir Imam. If you are from India then you may know that near Hasanabad Jamatkhana there are homes of many hindu families. They have faith in Hazar Imam. In Tomb of Imam Hasan Ali Shah there is large sized photo of Hazir Imam. When the kids have exams in schools their parents come and offer coconut there infront of Hazir Imam's pic and believe that their prayers will fulfilled. They are not ismailis but hindus.
And as far as deedar is concerned no matter what the case may be if Imam want to bless any one with deedar then He gives him/her no matter how much problems are in the way.

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad Munir,

I do understand what u mean to say, I was just trying to convey that we are humans and must also feel for the people on the other side of road…..

It’s a sensitive and emotional issue. I myself have gone through this stage of feeling Ismaili but not officially accepted so I know exactly how it feels to be unofficial or Special (I believe this situation is special not unofficial). I think it’s not anyone’s fault, if we see both Board Process and Applicants Frustration both are correct… if I look from Board’s standing point I think its their responsibility not to make any decision that will hurt Jamat so until they aren’t sure one must be restricted and if I look from applicant’s standing point I feel every human had a right to education and practice of Faith without any restrictions.

As I mention about it’s a sensitive and an emotional issue so I don’t want to write something that may hurt anyone’s sentiments but just want to tell that those people who are Ismaili by heart but not official Ismaili have a special Place in Hazar Imam Heart… Yes it’s true…. If we read story of Ekalavya and Karna both were restricted education due to some reasons, it looked as if injustice was down to them but in long run God did justice with them…. Similarly if you believe in Hazar Imam I am sure nothing will stop you from reaching Allah…. People who have faith must not see path but must only focus on Destination…. Allah will become path, which will not have any hurdles and nothing will be between Allah and You!

Munir I believe to have Faith, learn Practices, concept, etc… it not necessary that one must seek someone’s help… If Allah wills these things will come to us without any median or channel direct in our heart!

Zubair Mahamood

[star_munir]

Yes thats true. I have heard this many times In pakistan there is small village near Hyderabad called khyber. Once there was construction of Jamat Khana
and some hindus who were involve in construction work saw some miraculous things. Later their families all converted to Ismailism and they start living in same village.

Btw as far as board point of view is concerned. I dont think any one will hurt if some one is comming in Ismaili Faith. What I mean to say it may be right if they take some time but there should be its limit too..I dont think that the reply of application should be given after 10 or 15 or even more years.

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad,

Hazar Imam has stressed at this point that we must balance between both sides of our life Zahir as well Batine… I think person can start spiritual Journey at any point by simple saying Allah’s name but to start Zahir journey as an Ismaili one must have access to Jamatkhana without which one can’t balance or will have difficulty in doing so… If I wouldn’t have meet Hazar Imam frequently may be it would have been difficult for me to balance both sides as people around us don’t have understand of our concepts and when we move with them in our day to day affair they tend to think we are really honest or trying to show we are…. Sometimes I felt the blessing of Faith is like punishment…. But Munir I Believe before right time no one has ever got anything or will get so let it be 10yrs to 100yrs Allah better knows when is the proper time… Board is under direct supervision of Hazar Imam and my faith doesn’t permit me to say if or but in front of Mowla Word… I think or always felt that between me and Allah if someone is standing its only Allah; yes I mean it as no one has The Power except Allah to stop someone from reaching Him we must understand the purpose of Allah why he is not allowing us to reach him. Once we understand the purpose then I will be easy to balance both sides of Faith!

Zubair Mahamood

[magnet]

Also zahir/batin=materialistic and spiritual balancing that...and if we try to do that means we are fool???

than i guess we should follow only materialistic life.....and when any problem arises do sucide since we dont know where to try for help...or either be only spiritual and when your parents ask for money for food u say u all are saitans follower u disturbing me to praise allah/god/jesus/krishna whatever......

right na???

[star_munir]

TRUTHTHATTRANSFORMS....as for all your foolish comments which you have posted so far now....the Example of Imam is like mirror...those who are bad thinks him bad..So if you are intelligent (which you dont seem to be from any point) then this one is enough...

Secondly..as you claim yourself follower of Jesus which you cant be because you are trying to just create problems by misusing name of Jesus...so remember no matter how much you love Jesus..you cant get inner peace if you will use abusive words to insult any religion. Who can know this more better then you..

Gandhi was also hurt and disliked christians in his early life, when he found some christians talking nonsense about hindu gods. He himself has written this in his autobiography. You should learn this...if you are thinking by disrespecting other religions you will get respect from others....then its total nonsense...Salvation is far away thing, you cant please your Jesus by insulting any religion..Make it clear in your mind, if you have. Thats my last post for you hopefully as I dont want to waste timming in talking with you.

Hope Admin will block your IP so you will not be able to come back creating different ids.

[star_munir]

Ya Ali Madaad,

Hazar Imam has stressed at this point that we must balance between both sides of our life Zahir as well Batine… I think person can start spiritual Journey at any point by simple saying Allah’s name but to start Zahir journey as an Ismaili one must have access to Jamatkhana without which one can’t balance or will have difficulty in doing so… If I wouldn’t have meet Hazar Imam frequently may be it would have been difficult for me to balance both sides as people around us don’t have understand of our concepts and when we move with them in our day to day affair they tend to think we are really honest or trying to show we are…. Sometimes I felt the blessing of Faith is like punishment…. But Munir I Believe before right time no one has ever got anything or will get so let it be 10yrs to 100yrs Allah better knows when is the proper time… Board is under direct supervision of Hazar Imam and my faith doesn’t permit me to say if or but in front of Mowla Word… I think or always felt that between me and Allah if someone is standing its only Allah; yes I mean it as no one has The Power except Allah to stop someone from reaching Him we must understand the purpose of Allah why he is not allowing us to reach him. Once we understand the purpose then I will be easy to balance both sides of Faith!

Zubair Mahamood

Mowla Ali Madad,
I agree that no one get any thing before right time..But the thing is that ki the people working in institution are not God. They are human and can make mistakes. So by pointing out mistakes it not means saying bad to Imam. The process of conversion is complicated proccess and thats truth. The purpose is not just to criticize that out institutions are bad..but just to discuss what are our lackness..until we will not accept our weak points we can not become better. May be there would be direction with regards to conversion process...but from what it is in Holy Ginan and as Per Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah's Farman..any one who wish to become ismaili can come in faith and any one who want to leave can also leave it any time.

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad Munir,

When I was a kid mom use to say a story of a Prophet (I don’t remember his name) “Once Prophet had headache, during those days they didn’t have doctors so Prophet approached Allah to solve his problem, Allah said Him to go and have some leafs of a tree… Prophet did it and his pain was over! After few days Prophet had similar headache and he had same leaf to get rid of pain but his headache didn’t finish… Prophet was surprised why leafs didn’t work this time and asked Allah why? Allah replied on first occasion I said you to have the leaf and 2nd occasion it was you who decided to have them” this story had a meaning when I was a kid and today it has a complete different meaning. This is pure reality of life, if someone understand and accept this I think he will find Allah!

I spend last three weeks in visiting Ismaili sites mainly trying to connect our architectures with Islamic art and culture… At the end of my visit I realised Hazar Imam personal contribution has changed the out come of each project, Hazar Imam’s unique way of understanding Jamat in spite of such a busy schedule has added a new flavour to each project…! I don’t have much knowledge of Hazar Imam as a person although I leave in Paris but last three weeks have thought me Hazar Imam has eye on every activity which seem impossible for Human and got to know Hazar as a Human… He works like a computer processor and has every thing in his control! Very encouraging….

Munir no one is perfect except Allah, if we expect this from someone it means…………. So I think we shouldn’t talk about board process… it has educated personnel who have experience and have responsibilities, and after last three week I feel Hazar Imam keeps his eye on each activity including board process…!

I live with Sunnis and last week I was asked to lead namaz by my roommates which I did but before that I said to Hazar Imam “You have lot of expectations from Zubair” as I said no one can know faith of other! My roommates think I am Sunni its been more then 3 years I m with them, my family don’t know about me I spend atleast three weeks each year with them, at the end of each day when I close doors of my bed room “I feel guilty for lying to my parent and at same time I thank Allah for bless me the faith” in all this I believe Allah is with me and I m not doing anything wrong… The person in me is difficult to understand that’s what my friends tell me who respect my faith but they love my honest towards my belief…! All this is between me and Allah, people living with me and who gave me birth are unable to figure out my faith then how can I expect board to be accurate in decision making…! This is the situation of most conversion case…. Person who is sincere will find place…! It’s better to have faith in Allah… Allah judgement is final…!

Understanding someone heart is impossible especial when I come to faith… what I am telling you might be 100% false or 100% true! That’s the nature of each case… by my 10 postings and meeting me for 10 times can u tell my faith… Its not easy work…. if you live in Pakistan then you will know religion is not always personal, it’s emotional, it’s political, and it’s XYZ… In India BJP won election on this ground and lost last election only on this ground…! People don’t think with brains but with emotions…! Although I think media is playing a role in educating people these days but still people think narrowly… we are young so we see life is simple and easy… Decision making is difficult work if I was given such responsibility I would say I don’t qualify for the job… I have seen people in board in France and in India, they have experience of my age!

Just for a second think this Christian brother who keeps posting, apply for conversion and gets green signal in next 6 months, with his negative attitude enters jk, learns our concepts negatively and after 6 yrs from now starts writing wrong about Ismaili, starts hurting our emotions and does something to insult our faith like he does now then who is responsible for all the problems created by him… so board is strict in conversion process if someone is sincere he or she will qualify… and remember what I was telling people who feel ismaili but r not officially ismaili have special place in Imam Heart, they have special blessing, have patience and Allah protects them…!

Zubair Mahamood

[magnet]

Well regarding conversion as far as my local jamat knowledge goes our own mukhi told us a situation which happened recently he was not there to share but some stuff arised and he shared this stuff he told.....
Mostly here people convert just to get funds.....1 family got converted and started receiving funds from imam institution....but than they tried blackmailing....like they were given money for there kids to travel via bus....but they said we want money to travel from auto/taxi....also for coming to jk provide us vehicle support...or we will leave the religion the family head wasnt earning the commitees were ready to provide him an auto to earn but he refused....he only wanted money and thats the reason he converted
...also in 1 case someone joined our religion got the fund and than reconverted ..he jus entered for getting money

thats the reason most of the tariqa board shows negative resposne to conversions....also i think in ismailis we never say ppl o follow or join our religion....

we should praise ppl of kazakistan,tajakistan and all..for 1000 years they had no zahiri deedar of imam but they still pray,worship him...also in minus degrees temperature they came for deedar..and we(including me) were crying for hyderabad episode....

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we should praise ppl of kazakistan,tajakistan and all..for 1000 years they had no zahiri deedar of imam but they still pray,worship him...also in minus degrees temperature they came for deedar..and we(including me) were crying for hyderabad episode....

While reading your post I remembered an incident which I personally witnessed. During the migration of Afghan Jamat from Afghanistan first to Peshawar (Pakistan) and then to Karachi (Pakistan) in 1999-2000, there were few transit center formed in Karachi by Pakistan Council. I was the member of a Physical Arrangement Committee in GTC (Gymkhana Transit Center - Garden, Karachi Pakistan). They were arriving in groups and there was an arrival every 3 or 4 days. Afghan people were in really bad shape, I have seen few cases where parents find there children, friends find their old friends already here or coming here whom they thought are already dead or lost. There was one arrival when a friend saw his old friend and business partner. Both were really happy they hugged each other and were crying. After couple days, I heard that these 2 friends had a fight last night and it was really severe. One of the two friend’s son was sent to the hospital because he was bleeding badly few more people were hurt too. We found out the reason was that these 2 friends were business partners back in Afghanistan and the guy A (don’t remember his name) who was here in transit center already left Afghanistan earlier leaving 5 or 6 thousand dollars and a oil well with his partner guy B. Now guy A wants to find out what had happened to his money and other business stuff but the guy B was denying with everything saying guy A has nothing to do with his business, ending with fighting. Transit center’s security committee called both the friends to resolve this issue. (For some reason I was there in that meeting). Guy A explained everything about what happened back in Afghanistan and he gave his money and left everything with guy B. All he wanted is an explanation from guy B of what happened. He said I don’t care if you tell me that everything is destroyed and you lost the money, I don’t want anything back because I know the situation back home but at least accept it that I had given you the money and other business stuff. Against this, guy B denied everything, he said we were just good friends and that’s it. I wasn’t able to understand anything they were talking about if there wasn’t an interpreter, they were talking in Persian. This conversation was getting real hot. Both were just forcing about their part of the story and all of a sudden guy A stands up and went to the Maula’s picture which was hanging on the front wall. He went to the picture and said: ‘If my friend put his right dast (hand) on Maula’s picture and tell me that everything I am claiming is wrong I will touch his feet and sorry for everything:. Now everybody looked at this guy B to respond. I can still remember the expressions on his face. He just started crying and ran out of the room. Later he came back and said he want to sort this out with his friend without anybody involving in it. Both the guy A & B left the room. Don’t know what happened after that but Yes I saw both these guys sharing the same plate of rice after a few days. (Remember both these guys are in their late 40z never had a Zahiri deedar of Maula but it’s just the respect, love & faith of my Maula).

[star_munir]

Thank you very much for sharing this story.

Mowla Ali Madad Zubair and thanks for telling your personal experiences. There is lady who belonged to orthodox hindu family. I will not mention her name. From her childhood she had deep interest in religion. When her parents used to go to watch movies, she not liked to join them instead she live to watch movies of hindu gods.
Later she she started growing old she thought to go more towards spirituality. Some how, she got Farman book of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah. She used to read it in hidden way so that no one from her family can see her. Later from some where she saw photo of Hazir Imam. Then she started finding about Ismailism from wherever she can and then she converted to Ismailism after lots of struggles going to Tariqa board many times..She knows many Ginans and Qasidas and when Hazir Imam had came for Deedar In Hyderabad, she had also attended and had Deedar of Imam

[star_munir]

I know Imam have knowledge of what work they are doing. Infact Imam has knowledge of every thing. I also mean to say that not any human or any institution is perfect. So we can accept our mistakes.
It is not neccessary that every work done by Ismaili Institution is always right. There are examples of changings in Ginans and you may be surprised to know that even some times books in IIS may also give wrong information about history or misguide like book by Farhad Daftary on Ismaili history.
I am not just criticizing Tariqa board here. I am just admitting that its truth that the process of conversion is very very complicated in most of the cases. Though it is not in every case but in most of the cases
and it should not be so much complicated in my opinion and that also because as per what I have understood from Farman and Ginans any one who want to become Ismaili can freely and easily become Ismaili and any one who want to leave can also do the same.


As for people saying bad to Ismailism, there are some times people who are born is Ismaili families and later becomes Non Ismailis and start saying and giving wrong information on Ismailism and thats not the thing only with Ismailism. There are anti Islamic websites. There are websites against Christianity and Hinduism etc. So there are people who always try to hurt others by anti-religion websites or books.

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad,

I know Imam have knowledge of what work they are doing. Infact Imam has knowledge of every thing. I also mean to say that not any human or any institution is perfect. So we can accept our mistakes.
It is not neccessary that every work done by Ismaili Institution is always right. There are examples of changings in Ginans and you may be surprised to know that even some times books in IIS may also give wrong information about history or misguide like book by Farhad Daftary on Ismaili history.
I am not just criticizing Tariqa board here. I am just admitting that its truth that the process of conversion is very very complicated in most of the cases. Though it is not in every case but in most of the cases
and it should not be so much complicated in my opinion and that also because as per what I have understood from Farman and Ginans any one who want to become Ismaili can freely and easily become Ismaili and any one who want to leave can also do the same.


As for people saying bad to Ismailism, there are some times people who are born is Ismaili families and later becomes Non Ismailis and start saying and giving wrong information on Ismailism and thats not the thing only with Ismailism. There are anti Islamic websites. There are websites against Christianity and Hinduism etc. So there are people who always try to hurt others by anti-religion websites or books.

Yes we are humans, it is not necessary every work we or our Institutions do is always right but we are talking of board and it has responsibilities.We must learn from our mistakes and take measure not to repeat them again that’s what i thnk board is doing!

A kid is responsibility of parents and if he doesn’t respect his parents or faith then I think in general it’s totally parents fault! When you go to school first day what do u know about education or education system, u learn as u r teachers teaches u! A kid is like a blank paper and parents have to write Ya Ali on it…! I have meet many parents in Europe who are worried of their kids because they don’t respect them or practice faith, if parents don’t practice Faith regularly and expect their kids to be regular then they shouldn’t be expecting this from kids. If Parents go to JK once or twice a month and doesn’t practice faith regularly then how can a kid learn and practice Faith. A kid does what he saw and experienced with his parents!

As for Anti Ismaili or Anti Islamic or Anti Religious websites or other material are concern frankly speaking I don’t believe there is anything like anti! When I was blessed faith I was confuse, nothing was clear I was wondering what happened, I was not able figure out what was going on in my life I couldn’t speak about Hazar Imam with Non Ismailies and Ismailies avoided me…! Then I started reading what u call anti Ismaili websites and books, I believe in what I saw not on what was written, I still read them if I have time (If your driving and your forward gear doesn’t work you can still reach your destination with reverse gear, destination is important then path that’s what I thought!) when I didn’t get Ismaili Books I started reading anti Ismaili books. Believe me I said “Bismillallah” before I started reading anything, I learned Dua and other concept from Anti Ismaili websites and Books that’s y I say Allah has taught me not anyone else! The person who must have written Anti Ismaili Books or website wouldn’t even once thought that his intention of separating Ismailies from roots by writing this book is helping someone to find his root. So you tell me what I must think about anti ismailies websites which has helped me in my quest then Ismailies…! And The Quran which is Allah’s word, if someone reads it with bad intentions it will show him path towards hell making him in those who have gone astray and if someone reads it with pure heart it will show them realities, truth only truth. Do you think is there anything anti!

As I said its parents responsibility to look after kids similarly its boards responsibility to look after each member who is converting, if an Ismaili kid doesn’t follow Imam and start talking negative, its first his parents fault (I am apologies with parents reading this I m like your kid don’t be angry at me) and If a convert does same I think its fault of Board that’s y in conversion cases board makes decision when they are sure.

Well regarding conversion as far as my local jamat knowledge goes our own mukhi told us a situation which happened recently he was not there to share but some stuff arised and he shared this stuff he told.....
Mostly here people convert just to get funds.....1 family got converted and started receiving funds from imam institution....but than they tried blackmailing....like they were given money for there kids to travel via bus....but they said we want money to travel from auto/taxi....also for coming to jk provide us vehicle support...or we will leave the religion the family head wasnt earning the commitees were ready to provide him an auto to earn but he refused....he only wanted money and thats the reason he converted
...also in 1 case someone joined our religion got the fund and than reconverted ..he jus entered for getting money

thats the reason most of the tariqa board shows negative resposne to conversions....also i think in ismailis we never say ppl o follow or join our religion....

we should praise ppl of kazakistan,tajakistan and all..for 1000 years they had no zahiri deedar of imam but they still pray,worship him...also in minus degrees temperature they came for deedar..and we(including me) were crying for hyderabad episode....

Financial issue may be motivation for people of Asia! If someone gets converted for money or other benefits except faith then I think in really terms it’s not conversion. Faith is not a contract or agreement there are no proposals or acceptance. If someone wants to get financial benefits they are other missionaries, I have heard conversion on the bases of funds in Christian which has changed many peoples lifes in India but not in Ismaili!

People living in other countries have lots of patience which I think I don’t have. People living physical away from Imam have His words with them, Today Information Technology has change the way of life even ibadath with a click one can have access to Imam’s Activities. In past they were no communication channels, ppl had Imam’s word which was everything they needed to know for guidance, Hazar Imam Physical doesn’t travel to each place but he has access to each Murid’s Heart, I believe He doesn’t leave his Murid alone. I think we can’t reach him if we want and if he wants He can, they have been incidence in past where Imam Physical gave Dedaar to Murids who wanted to meet Him Physically! I was born in Hyderabad, each year I go to hyd but when Hazar Imam was giving Dedaar at hyd I couldn’t go, I did my best to get off from work and other things but nothing worked… Last year one day I was at a place, I knew Hazar Imam was in same building I looked for him but I didn’t find him, I thought He must have not come so I was just doing my work and Tasbi, I was on first floor and don’t know what made me turned back, I saw Hazar Imam going towards exit it was for a minute I had Physical Dedaar…. I said to Allah what sin did I do, I don’t get to see Him before but later on thank Allah for making me turn back even that movement wouldn’t have come to me… a minute was enough for me to learn! In Paris, I cross Hazar Imam many times without see him sometimes I think our heart can’t bear Hazar Imam physically that’s y Imam stays away from us… I don’t know how people work him, how does there heart bear Him.

Zubair Mahamood