"jeeve" and "soul"

[pak]

yam
dear shirazkali u have ofer danu to explain the differnce b/w the jeeve and soul would u like to tell me plzzz
thanks

[shirazkali]

hi, i am back, i apologize for taking my time. i was busy in my studies. now the question raised by the "pak" is the difference between "jeeve" and "soul". i know quite a bit, not that much, about it, but i am 100% sure that there is difference between jeeve and soul.<BR><BR>when human is born, the "jeeve" is already in the man's sperm. the soul is sent during the third month month of pregnancy. all the difficulties and problems that occured to the child is the human's jeeve. soul is preventive from all the difficulties and sins. when the human dies, and if he did the bad deeds in his life, he goes to " ghooor andhari", according to our ginans, where he is put in the detention or giving a punishment. that punishment imples to the jeeve not the soul.<BR>imam has said in his o&shy;ne of his farmans that " hamain tamara jeeve na chutkara ma-ta avain chiyain". notice in all of the farmans that imam has told jeeve not the soul. soul is pure. <BR><BR>that stuff i am telling is from the "Abu ali" waiz. he didn't explain briefly, he told us that there are so many things that we don't know about the difference and function of our jeeve and soul. he just explained about the 10% of the material.<BR><BR>he also talked about the event that occured during imam sultan mohammad shah. <BR>one couple went to imam for their child name and imam gave the name and told them that your grand father has come after forty years. the grand father's jeeve&nbsp;was in detention or in the punishment because of his deeds.&nbsp;By imam's grace, he was given a second chance to identify the god.[/code]

[shamsu]

Jeeve can be called Life Force and it also has another meaning another context in which it is used. when a persons inner desire gets caught up in something or someone we say that this persons jeeve is stuck in that thing or person. The person starts behaving like they cannot live without that particular thing or person because their life force is suddenly attached there.

Ginan reference "Jeeve lagaiye zikr su to saancha surijan paas"

attach your jeeve in zikr and u will be close to the true pure momin (perfect man = Imam).

soul actually refers to nafs or the conscience. The conscience of man exists in 3 states

nafs-e-amara = animal desire
nafs-e-lavama= guiding conscience
nafs-e-mutmaina=a peaceful conscience.

The way I came up with nafs is that in the Quran the word nafs occurs multiple times and its english translation invariably is soul.

When the word Ruh appears it is translated as Spirit.

I am sure this post will raise multiple questions but that is the way to proceed with the discussion.

Shams

[from_Origin]

soul actually refers to nafs or the conscience. The conscience of man exists in 3 states

nafs-e-amara = animal desire
nafs-e-lavama= guiding conscience
nafs-e-mutmaina=a peaceful conscience.

The way I came up with nafs is that in the Quran the word nafs occurs multiple times and its english translation invariably is soul.

When the word Ruh appears it is translated as Spirit.

I am sure this post will raise multiple questions but that is the way to proceed with the discussion.

Shams

Correct me if I'm wrong in this one, but this has been my level of understanding when reading various Bait-Ul-Khayal (BUK) farmans from Mawlana Sultan Mohamad Shah and Mawlana Hazar Imam. In SMS's BUK farmans, He speaks of elevating one's RUH (in which case you've translated to be SPIRIT). And in MHI's BUK farmans He speaks of elevating one's SOUL (in which case you've translated to be NAFS/CONSCIENCE).

SMS --> RUH = SPIRIT
MHI --> SOUL = NAFS/CONSCIENCE

So if I apply terms from your definitions above, then the two Imams are guiding us to elevate something very different. There's something we're missing here.

Your thoughts?

[faisall667]

Yeah that is true--something is missing. I would like to ask the difference between spirit and soul?

Thank you

Faisal

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It would be nice if this topic went on for a longer period and had more posts!!!

[kmaherali]

Yeah that is true--something is missing. I would like to ask the difference between spirit and soul?

The best explanation of the difference between the Soul and Spirit that I have come across is given by Paramahansa Yogananda in his translation and explanation of the Bhagavad Gita in his "God Talks With Arjuna - The Bhgavad Gita". It accords with Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah's explanation of the soul given in his memoirs. Here it is....

The difference between Soul and Spirit is this: The Spirit is ever-existing (Sat), ever-conscious (chit), ever-new omnipresent Joy (Anand); the soul is the individualized reflection of ever-existing, ever-conscious, ever-new Joy, confined within the body of each and every being.

Souls are the radiating rays of Spirit, individualized as formless, vibrationless "atoms" and "tissues" of Spirit. Hence, they are coexistent with Spirit and of the same essence, as the sun and its rays are one. Though incarnate, the soul belongs to the noumenal region, which changes not. All material forms belong to the regions of phenomena; their very nature being alienated from Spirit, they change constantly. Phenomena arise from and are inseparably linked with noumena; but the latter, being of Spirit, are immutable and transcendent. The outer surface of the soul's consciousness that is cloaked with the instrumentalities of the ego, mind, and senses undergoes the permutations of Nature, but the soul's essence remains inviolable.

Worldly men do not know what the soul is, or how it comes into the physical body, and then, after a short sojourn, to what destiny it slips away. Trillions of men have mysteriously come on earth and just as mysteriously departed. That is why people in general cannot but wonder if the soul undergoes extinction along with the destruction of the body.

The following analogy gives an illustration of the nature and immortality of the soul. (No analogies are perfect in expressing absolute verities, but they do help the mind to image abstract concepts.) The moon is reflected in a cup containing water; the cup is broken and the water runs out; where does the reflection of the moon go? The reflection of the moon may be said to have returned to its inseverable identity in the moon itself. If another cup of water is placed under the moon, another reflection of the moon would be reincarnated!

The soul is similarly reflected in the bodily cup filled with the water of the mind; within it we see the moon-soul, circumscribed by the bodily limitations, as the reflection of the omnipresent moon of Spirit. With the destruction of the body-cup, the moon reflection may for a time disappear on it as the image of the Spirit; but, by use of the power of the free choice bestowed on it as the image of the Spirit, it created desires and karma while on earth cause it to choose to be reflected again as the moon-soul within another bodily cup. Thus, though the bodies of man be mortal and changeable, immortal is the soul within them.

The reflected moon, circumscribed by a little cup, becomes, at the destruction of the cup, the one moon whose rays spread over the sky. Similarly, the soul, when fully liberated from imprisoning desires, becomes omnipresent like the Spirit.

[shamsu]

YAM everyone

I am quoting from memory Imam SMS Farman in KIM 1

"Tammae tamara Dil na Ruh ne pooccho ke ander Jeeve kevi reetae cchalae cche"

I think - to translate this a person has to be assal mae vaasal.


Feedback welcome

Shams

[kenshin]

dear shamsu, wat does this mean
"Tammae tamara Dil na Ruh ne pooccho ke ander Jeeve kevi reetae cchalae cche" sorry i dont understand.can u pls translate.

also mr. shirazkali wrote:

imam has said in his o&shy;ne of his farmans that " hamain tamara jeeve na chutkara ma-ta avain chiyain". wat does this mean. can any1 translate it for me

thanks .yam