Ya Ali Madad,
I am little bit confused, some people of our jamat recite Holy Salwat when they hear the name of Pir's while singing Ginans, many of them dont do it.
I read Sultan Mohammad Shah (Salwat ullah Aleeyeee) farman:
"When ever u heard the name of Prophet Mohammad or the name of Imams you must recite Holy Salwat, It is not good that you recite holy salwat for others name except Holy Prophet ( PBUH ) and Imams".
Imam has not taken the name of Pirs. Anyone tell me why people of our jamat recite Holy Salwat when they heard the name of Pirs?
Recite Salwat on Pir's Name
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
We should recite Salwat when there is name of Imam and the Arabic word for Pir is Imam Mustawda and for Imam is Imam Mustaqar. Holy Pirs are from progeny of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
Some people think Pir as just dai or composer of Ginans however it is not true. Pir is also holder of Noor.
Our Present Imam Shah Karim is our Imam as Well as Pir.
Some people think Pir as just dai or composer of Ginans however it is not true. Pir is also holder of Noor.
Our Present Imam Shah Karim is our Imam as Well as Pir.
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
There are many topics you can fine where there is discussion on topic of Pirs like. I hope it will help you to get more clear answers. I would like to add few points more. When Imam says to recite Salwat on name of Propet Muhammad and Imam names then it is obvious to recite when there is name of Pir.
I would like to give one example. Once I asked my hindu friend if you get chance to go in past, at which time you would like to go? My friend answered at the time of Lord Raam. I asked will you not like to go at the time of Bhagwan Krishna? The reply I got from my friend was "Both are Same. For me both are one." A small reply that touched my heart and I said, "Yeah both are manifestation of Vishnu."
What I want to say is the Noor is same. Bodies of Imam and Pir may be different but Noor is always the same.
Holy Prophet (PBUH) said, "First of all Allah created My Noor from His Noor and every thing has been created from My Noor."
Imam and Pir are holder of Light of God. Many people think that Pir means those who have composed Ginans however it is not the correct concept.
Many Ginans are composed by Syeds who were not Pir like Syed Imam shah, Sye Mohammad Shah etc and many Ginans were composed by Pir when they were not Pir at that time like Pir Hassan kabirdin's famous granth Anant Akhado.
Mowlana Hazir Imam, Noor of Ali and Nabi is our Imam and Pir. If Pir means just missionary or Dai then why do we Say Pir Shah.
Imam Mustansibillah in Pandiyate Jawanmardi wrote: "On the day of qayamat the accounts of those who are the first and the last will be left in the hands of Mowla Ali but every one who has been obedient to the Pir will stand on that day in the shadow (i.e, under the protection) of the Pir of his time."
I would like to give one example. Once I asked my hindu friend if you get chance to go in past, at which time you would like to go? My friend answered at the time of Lord Raam. I asked will you not like to go at the time of Bhagwan Krishna? The reply I got from my friend was "Both are Same. For me both are one." A small reply that touched my heart and I said, "Yeah both are manifestation of Vishnu."
What I want to say is the Noor is same. Bodies of Imam and Pir may be different but Noor is always the same.
Holy Prophet (PBUH) said, "First of all Allah created My Noor from His Noor and every thing has been created from My Noor."
Imam and Pir are holder of Light of God. Many people think that Pir means those who have composed Ginans however it is not the correct concept.
Many Ginans are composed by Syeds who were not Pir like Syed Imam shah, Sye Mohammad Shah etc and many Ginans were composed by Pir when they were not Pir at that time like Pir Hassan kabirdin's famous granth Anant Akhado.
Mowlana Hazir Imam, Noor of Ali and Nabi is our Imam and Pir. If Pir means just missionary or Dai then why do we Say Pir Shah.
Imam Mustansibillah in Pandiyate Jawanmardi wrote: "On the day of qayamat the accounts of those who are the first and the last will be left in the hands of Mowla Ali but every one who has been obedient to the Pir will stand on that day in the shadow (i.e, under the protection) of the Pir of his time."
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
Noor is Noor and is always Same. Once Mowla Ali was asked about His relationship with the Prophet, He said : "I am related to Ahmed just as light is related to a light."
As for Imam Mustwada and Imam Mustaqar :
The two terms, mustaqar Imam and mustawda Imam, are in application in the Ismaili theories to denote the types of the Imam, which have come from the following Koranic verse:-
"It is He Who produced (ansha'a) you from one living soul, and then (there is) a lodging place (mustaqar), and then a repository (mustawda). Indeed, We made plain the signs for a people who understand" (6:98)
(You can read more from : http://www.ismaili.net/Source/myflag/16appendixc.html)
Also for example in Quran it is that Prophet Abraham was Imam. He was Imam Mustawda i.e, Pir.
As for Imam Mustwada and Imam Mustaqar :
The two terms, mustaqar Imam and mustawda Imam, are in application in the Ismaili theories to denote the types of the Imam, which have come from the following Koranic verse:-
"It is He Who produced (ansha'a) you from one living soul, and then (there is) a lodging place (mustaqar), and then a repository (mustawda). Indeed, We made plain the signs for a people who understand" (6:98)
(You can read more from : http://www.ismaili.net/Source/myflag/16appendixc.html)
Also for example in Quran it is that Prophet Abraham was Imam. He was Imam Mustawda i.e, Pir.
What I observe these days is that we seem to say salami (the hand motion) at the name of every Sayyad that is said in the Ginans as well as TITULAR PIRS.
Salami (salwat) should only be said on Pirs that were LIVING PIRS..and hailed from the family of the Holy Prophet.
Most of the Pirs that came to Indo-sub Pak continents were descendants of Pir Imamudin (the brother of Imam Muhammed ibn Ismail), those are the pirs that we should be saying salwat on during the ginans.
These were beings that the IMAM elevated to the level of PIR during their lifetimes, (Pir Shams, Pir Satgur Noor, Pir Miriam Khatoon etc.)
We should not be saying Salwat or Salaami on Sayyads - however i notice in Jamat Khana a lot of us are still doing that..including our RE teachers. (examples of Sayyads include - Sayyada Imam Begum, Sayyad Imamshah, Sayyad Mohammed Shah etc.)
We should not be saying salwat on folks raised to the TITLE of Pir posthumusly as they were not PIRS during their lifetimes - (Pir Hassan Bin Sabbah, Pir Nasir Khusraw, Pir Subzali, Pir Ismail Gangji etc).
The Joma jo Pir or Puthiyo jo pir (where we say MHI is our 50th Pir)..are the pirs that in the Ismaili Tariqah are endowed with the Noor of Nabuwah.
We used to say these Pirs names in Our old Dua.
I will cease here. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me.
Shams
Salami (salwat) should only be said on Pirs that were LIVING PIRS..and hailed from the family of the Holy Prophet.
Most of the Pirs that came to Indo-sub Pak continents were descendants of Pir Imamudin (the brother of Imam Muhammed ibn Ismail), those are the pirs that we should be saying salwat on during the ginans.
These were beings that the IMAM elevated to the level of PIR during their lifetimes, (Pir Shams, Pir Satgur Noor, Pir Miriam Khatoon etc.)
We should not be saying Salwat or Salaami on Sayyads - however i notice in Jamat Khana a lot of us are still doing that..including our RE teachers. (examples of Sayyads include - Sayyada Imam Begum, Sayyad Imamshah, Sayyad Mohammed Shah etc.)
We should not be saying salwat on folks raised to the TITLE of Pir posthumusly as they were not PIRS during their lifetimes - (Pir Hassan Bin Sabbah, Pir Nasir Khusraw, Pir Subzali, Pir Ismail Gangji etc).
The Joma jo Pir or Puthiyo jo pir (where we say MHI is our 50th Pir)..are the pirs that in the Ismaili Tariqah are endowed with the Noor of Nabuwah.
We used to say these Pirs names in Our old Dua.
I will cease here. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me.
Shams
When we recite Salwaat upon the name of the Prophet/Imams/Pirs we are actually honouring and respecting the Light embodied in them. This does not mean that the Prophets/Imams/Pirs are the only bearers of the Noor. There can be others besides them who have also elevated themselves to be bearers of the Noor as well.
Pirs are the recognised bearers by virtue of having been appointed by the Imam to function as Pirs.
In my opinion Sayyed ImamShah was a fully enlightened soul and therefore he deserves the same respect as the Pirs by virtue of being the bearer of the Noor. Though he was not bestowed the title of Piratan, he was granted title of "Mystic Great Name" by the Imam as per the following excerpt from his biographical account given at:
http://www.ismaili.net/hero/hero25.html.
"On hearing the appointment of Pir Tajdeen in succession to Pir Hasan Kabir-ud-din, Syed Imam-ud-din was visibly effected, frustration and disappointment showing in his face. The Imam, seeing his reaction, consoled him and re-assured him that, though Piratan was not his destiny yet, the Imam was pleased to bestow the Mystic Great Name on him and ordered him to continue his mission on the Gujrat Coast".
But generally we would only recognise the Pirs as the bearers by virtue of being appointed by the Imam. There may be others but we cannot be certain with regard to their spiritual status and hence we avoid honouring them as well.
Mustaqarr is the actual and permanent office of Imam. Mustawda is a temporal office and functions according to the Imam's prerogative. Muastawda Imam are those appointed to perform the role of the "bearer of the Noor" on the behalf of the Imams. Although Mustawda Imam's are from Ahl-Bayt, it is not a hereditory office, i.e., the father does not appoint his son - the Imam of the time does.
Pirs are the recognised bearers by virtue of having been appointed by the Imam to function as Pirs.
In my opinion Sayyed ImamShah was a fully enlightened soul and therefore he deserves the same respect as the Pirs by virtue of being the bearer of the Noor. Though he was not bestowed the title of Piratan, he was granted title of "Mystic Great Name" by the Imam as per the following excerpt from his biographical account given at:
http://www.ismaili.net/hero/hero25.html.
"On hearing the appointment of Pir Tajdeen in succession to Pir Hasan Kabir-ud-din, Syed Imam-ud-din was visibly effected, frustration and disappointment showing in his face. The Imam, seeing his reaction, consoled him and re-assured him that, though Piratan was not his destiny yet, the Imam was pleased to bestow the Mystic Great Name on him and ordered him to continue his mission on the Gujrat Coast".
But generally we would only recognise the Pirs as the bearers by virtue of being appointed by the Imam. There may be others but we cannot be certain with regard to their spiritual status and hence we avoid honouring them as well.
Mustaqarr is the actual and permanent office of Imam. Mustawda is a temporal office and functions according to the Imam's prerogative. Muastawda Imam are those appointed to perform the role of the "bearer of the Noor" on the behalf of the Imams. Although Mustawda Imam's are from Ahl-Bayt, it is not a hereditory office, i.e., the father does not appoint his son - the Imam of the time does.