IF THERE WERE IMAMS BEFORE HAZRAT ALI WHY HE IS CALLED AS FIRST IMAM.
ACCORDING TO GINANS KRISHNA WAS AVTAR [IMAM] BUT ACCORDING TO MEMOIRS OF AGA KHAN HE WAS PROPHET SIMILARLY HAZRAT IBRAHIM WAS PROPHET BUT LATER BECAM IMAM.CAN ANY ONE EXPLAIN ME THIS.
some questions about Imam pre Ali
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star_munir
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Hazrat Ali is called First Manifest Imam, but not necessarily First Imam. Imams starting with Ali became revealed to the world, but they existed for all time.
As for Krishna, he was the Avatar, and was thus the Imam of his time. Dua of Pir Sadradin shows that Hazrat Ali is the direct descendant of Krishna. However, back in that time, Krishna was also a "Divinely Inspired Messenger" in the sense of God delivering His own Message. The station of Imamat is higher than that of Messengership. The Imam, during the periods of the Prophets, could also act as a Prophet or Messenger. Examples are Ishmael, son of Abraham and Aaron brother of Moses. They were Imams, but the Quran calls them Prophets because they delivered God's Message to their communities, and ALSO gave the spiritual interpretation of the message.
As for the case of Abraham, his son Ishmael was the Imam of that period. When Quran said that God made Abraham an Imam, the interpretation of this is that Abraham became the Mustawda (Trustee) Imam or Pir. Abraham had passed the trials of God, so he rose to the rank of Pir. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph were all Pirs/Mustawda Imams. Prophet Muhammad was also a Pir/Mustawda Imam.
As for Krishna, he was the Avatar, and was thus the Imam of his time. Dua of Pir Sadradin shows that Hazrat Ali is the direct descendant of Krishna. However, back in that time, Krishna was also a "Divinely Inspired Messenger" in the sense of God delivering His own Message. The station of Imamat is higher than that of Messengership. The Imam, during the periods of the Prophets, could also act as a Prophet or Messenger. Examples are Ishmael, son of Abraham and Aaron brother of Moses. They were Imams, but the Quran calls them Prophets because they delivered God's Message to their communities, and ALSO gave the spiritual interpretation of the message.
As for the case of Abraham, his son Ishmael was the Imam of that period. When Quran said that God made Abraham an Imam, the interpretation of this is that Abraham became the Mustawda (Trustee) Imam or Pir. Abraham had passed the trials of God, so he rose to the rank of Pir. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph were all Pirs/Mustawda Imams. Prophet Muhammad was also a Pir/Mustawda Imam.
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
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Old Dua
It is very clear if you take into account old dua
"Aly Mohammed yek Khuda"
There is no difference between Nabi and Aly when you look at the big picture.
Quit looking at the bodies and everything becomes clear.
When will we stop looking at the bodies of divine messengers and Imams?
We are all eternal beings and this truth has to be the premise from where all enquiries begin.
Maybe in this life there will come a time when I will be able to experience all Ismailies being able to identify themselves as spiritual beings first and then everything else.
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
"Aly Mohammed yek Khuda"
There is no difference between Nabi and Aly when you look at the big picture.
Quit looking at the bodies and everything becomes clear.
When will we stop looking at the bodies of divine messengers and Imams?
We are all eternal beings and this truth has to be the premise from where all enquiries begin.
Maybe in this life there will come a time when I will be able to experience all Ismailies being able to identify themselves as spiritual beings first and then everything else.
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
[b]Imam Is Allah on the basis of spritullity!(Alyrazashallw
Guys do you know that Imam is the container and the eternal of Imam is Noor(Allah) And the prophets were his messengers now it is clear brilliantly the difference between Prophets & Imam yet I was also confused yet o­n several times but now my Night school (relegious center) Teacher has made this clear and Now i think that it is cleared subsequently in the minds of my fellow friends that Prophets were the messengers of Allah (noor) Imam = Allah eternelly....Andif Prophet and Allah as ( Imam) are both the same than why they both not called with the same name as Avaathar (Imam) can any o­ne explain me my friend has also explained it in the previous last discussions that these all the prophets are the messengers o­nly .And KRISHNA was also the Imam Allah in the apearence of Imam Container as i explained you in the beggining of my discussion As so and i have o­ne question from Star_Munir i hope you'll answer it that can i tell my friendz about this das Avataar my ismaili friends and my Hindu friends? .....As i am not cleared and i was scolded by my mom o­n discussing these kind of things as it was banned by the imam Star Munir plz Answer me so i could give my friendz a first hand knowledge as it will make my far intelligent than my friends and my collegues thankx<FONT size=2>..</FONT>
[b]Imam Is Allah on the basis of spritullity!(Alyrazashallw
Guys do you know that Imam is the container and the eternal of Imam is Noor(Allah) And the prophets were his messengers now it is clear brilliantly the difference between Prophets & Imam yet I was also confused yet o­n several times but now my Night school (relegious center) Teacher has made this clear and Now i think that it is cleared subsequently in the minds of my fellow friends that Prophets were the messengers of Allah (noor) Imam = Allah eternelly....Andif Prophet and Allah as ( Imam) are both the same than why they both not called with the same name as Avaathar (Imam) can any o­ne explain me my friend has also explained it in the previous last discussions that these all the prophets are the messengers o­nly .And KRISHNA was also the Imam Allah in the apearence of Imam Container as i explained you in the beggining of my discussion As so and i have o­ne question from Star_Munir i hope you'll answer it that can i tell my friendz about this das Avataar my ismaili friends and my Hindu friends? .....As i am not cleared and i was scolded by my mom o­n discussing these kind of things as it was banned by the imam Star Munir plz Answer me so i could give my friendz a first hand knowledge as it will make my far intelligent than my friends and my collegues thankx<FONT size=2>..</FONT>
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
Concept Of Das Avtar
Many ismailis of today do not belive in concept of das avtar and said it was just for converting hindus to muslims but that is definately wrong.
It is just as wrong as we that Jesus is mentioned in Quran for converting christians into muslims. It is definately wrong .God,pir,Imam never say lie or false hood.Our prohet Mohammad never said any thing false for converting kafirs into muslims although the people of Arabia of that time were worst than why pir needed to say false and declare Imam as avtar?
Even the concept of das avtar is in old dua which was recited by ismailis for centuries. Do they pray wrong?no, the truth is that the true religion exist in this world from begining. It not started from the time of birth of Prophet Muhammad {PBUH},Jesus and Moses but also before them.
There are not only just 10 incarnations but 10 major avtar are as follow
1 Matsya
2 Kurama
3Varaha
4 Narashima
5Vamana
6Parsuram
7Ram
8Krishna
9Budh
10 Naklanki
Some people say that God can not come inside a body but remember God can do every thing. This issue is so confusing that even missionaries have different concepts regarding it for example Kamaluddin missionay do not believe in it but Abu Ali,Bahadur Ali and Babul missionary believes in it.
A miracle which I posted many times I am repeating again for you.This miracle of Hazir Imam was in karachi. When Imam performs a miracle there is a purpose of it.
When Hazar Imam left Garden Jamat Khana on On November 6th at 7:00 pm, a
large crowd had gathered near the road. Amongst the throng of Muslims
stood
two Hindu ladies who were waiting for the Imam. Because of the heavy
rush,
the Aga Khan Volunteers were forced to cordon off the crowd with a rope.
As
the car approached the women, Imam moved from one side of the seat to the
other, opened the window and revealed His Holy Face. Just then, the rope
broke exactly where these women were standing. They stepped forward
towards
the car and received the Imam's Holy Didar. Imam then closed the window.
The
Ismaili Volunteers were astonished at this incident. When the Imam
departed,
they approached the women and asked about it. The women said, "We are not
Muslims, but Hindus. Our lord Krishna told us in a dream last night thst
He
would make His appearance on a road neat the Jamat Khana of the Khoja
Ismailis in the midst of a large crowd. Indeed, today we have seen our
Lord!"
Its my wish that other members also share their opinion about this topic.
Many ismailis of today do not belive in concept of das avtar and said it was just for converting hindus to muslims but that is definately wrong.
It is just as wrong as we that Jesus is mentioned in Quran for converting christians into muslims. It is definately wrong .God,pir,Imam never say lie or false hood.Our prohet Mohammad never said any thing false for converting kafirs into muslims although the people of Arabia of that time were worst than why pir needed to say false and declare Imam as avtar?
Even the concept of das avtar is in old dua which was recited by ismailis for centuries. Do they pray wrong?no, the truth is that the true religion exist in this world from begining. It not started from the time of birth of Prophet Muhammad {PBUH},Jesus and Moses but also before them.
There are not only just 10 incarnations but 10 major avtar are as follow
1 Matsya
2 Kurama
3Varaha
4 Narashima
5Vamana
6Parsuram
7Ram
8Krishna
9Budh
10 Naklanki
Some people say that God can not come inside a body but remember God can do every thing. This issue is so confusing that even missionaries have different concepts regarding it for example Kamaluddin missionay do not believe in it but Abu Ali,Bahadur Ali and Babul missionary believes in it.
A miracle which I posted many times I am repeating again for you.This miracle of Hazir Imam was in karachi. When Imam performs a miracle there is a purpose of it.
When Hazar Imam left Garden Jamat Khana on On November 6th at 7:00 pm, a
large crowd had gathered near the road. Amongst the throng of Muslims
stood
two Hindu ladies who were waiting for the Imam. Because of the heavy
rush,
the Aga Khan Volunteers were forced to cordon off the crowd with a rope.
As
the car approached the women, Imam moved from one side of the seat to the
other, opened the window and revealed His Holy Face. Just then, the rope
broke exactly where these women were standing. They stepped forward
towards
the car and received the Imam's Holy Didar. Imam then closed the window.
The
Ismaili Volunteers were astonished at this incident. When the Imam
departed,
they approached the women and asked about it. The women said, "We are not
Muslims, but Hindus. Our lord Krishna told us in a dream last night thst
He
would make His appearance on a road neat the Jamat Khana of the Khoja
Ismailis in the midst of a large crowd. Indeed, today we have seen our
Lord!"
Its my wish that other members also share their opinion about this topic.