Differneces between ISMAILI and NUSAIRI
Differneces between ISMAILI and NUSAIRI
Can any one say what is the differences or similarities between Ismaili and Nusairi(Alawi).I see very similarities ?
Last edited by intmin on Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:15 am, edited 4 times in total.
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star_munir
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Ahl-e-Bait
Are the Nusairies from Ahl-e-Bait , too?
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aniskamdar
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Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
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Notice from Admin
Please read the previously stated rules about posting messages.
As long as we are civil to each other, refrain from gossip and name calling, no posts will be deleted.The forum's aim is to promote intellectual discussion.
Furthermore, please note that statements such as the following will not be acceptable because they are insulting and judgemental:
"Please get knowledge from the Quran and History so that discussing with you will be a pleasure else it will be a headache for me. For your info - I am an Ismaili and Ismailis know their religion better then non-Ismailis. "
For messages such as these, note that the unacceptable parts will be removed, but the rest of the meassage will remain. This is only for this time. Further message containing such comments will be completely deleted, not simply edited.
As long as we are civil to each other, refrain from gossip and name calling, no posts will be deleted.The forum's aim is to promote intellectual discussion.
Furthermore, please note that statements such as the following will not be acceptable because they are insulting and judgemental:
"Please get knowledge from the Quran and History so that discussing with you will be a pleasure else it will be a headache for me. For your info - I am an Ismaili and Ismailis know their religion better then non-Ismailis. "
For messages such as these, note that the unacceptable parts will be removed, but the rest of the meassage will remain. This is only for this time. Further message containing such comments will be completely deleted, not simply edited.
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aniskamdar
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Re: Notice from Admin
Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
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star_munir
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WITHOUT UNDESTANDING YOU WRITE EVERY THING
I SAID ISMAILIS NOT BELIEVE PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM AS GOD.YES IMAM IS MANIFEST GOD BUT THE BODY OF IMAM IS OF HUMAN AND INSIDE THE BODY IS NOOR.
BODY CHANGES BUT NOOR REMAINS SAME SO PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT GOD.IF IT WAS YOU CAN NOT SEE IT.NUSAYRIS [NOT NUSIARY MENTION IN FARMAN] BELIEVE THAT PHYSICAL BODY OF ALI WAS GOD.
YOU SAID ABOUT RAM AND KRISHNA. AGAIN THEIR BODY WAS ALSO NOT THE BODY OF GOD BUT VISHNU MANIFEST IN THE BODY OF RAM AND KRISHNA.
ABU ALI MISSIONARY ALSO IN HIS WAEZ SAID THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS .FOR FURTHER CLEARIFICATION ASK HIM OR OTHER MISSIONARY.
YOU SAYS EVERY ONE RUMOUR MONGER BUT YOU ARE RUMOUR MONGERING AND NOT UNDERSTANDING AS I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUSAIRY [A MAN] BUT NUSAIRIS [A SECT]
I WILL ADVISE YOU TO READ NOORUM MUBIN.IN THIS BOOK THERE IS A TOPIC ABOUT NUSAYRIS.READ THAT SO YOU WILL FIND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM AND ISMAILIS.
I SAID ISMAILIS NOT BELIEVE PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM AS GOD.YES IMAM IS MANIFEST GOD BUT THE BODY OF IMAM IS OF HUMAN AND INSIDE THE BODY IS NOOR.
BODY CHANGES BUT NOOR REMAINS SAME SO PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT GOD.IF IT WAS YOU CAN NOT SEE IT.NUSAYRIS [NOT NUSIARY MENTION IN FARMAN] BELIEVE THAT PHYSICAL BODY OF ALI WAS GOD.
YOU SAID ABOUT RAM AND KRISHNA. AGAIN THEIR BODY WAS ALSO NOT THE BODY OF GOD BUT VISHNU MANIFEST IN THE BODY OF RAM AND KRISHNA.
ABU ALI MISSIONARY ALSO IN HIS WAEZ SAID THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS .FOR FURTHER CLEARIFICATION ASK HIM OR OTHER MISSIONARY.
YOU SAYS EVERY ONE RUMOUR MONGER BUT YOU ARE RUMOUR MONGERING AND NOT UNDERSTANDING AS I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUSAIRY [A MAN] BUT NUSAIRIS [A SECT]
I WILL ADVISE YOU TO READ NOORUM MUBIN.IN THIS BOOK THERE IS A TOPIC ABOUT NUSAYRIS.READ THAT SO YOU WILL FIND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM AND ISMAILIS.
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aniskamdar
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Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
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star_munir
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ACCORDING TO HINDUISM RAM AND KRISHANA WERE HUMAN BUT THEY CALL THEM GOD BECAUSE THEY WERE INCARNATION OF VISHNU.THE WORD INCARNATION MEANS MANIFESTATION OR AVTAAR.YOU CAN ASK THIS FROM ANY HINDU OR READ THEIR HOLY BOOKS OR WATCH THE PROGRAMS LIKE MAHA BHARAT OR RAMAYAN.
VISNU [GOD] MANIFEST HIMSELF IN HUMAN BODY OF RAM AND KRISHNA.
With the body and the noor and all His attributes, features, highlights, etc. - Allah/Manifest Imam is One and there is none
WHEN I SAY THERE ARE TWO ALLAH OR IMAM?I SAID THAT PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD.NOOR OF IMAM IS SAME NOOR.IMAM ALI,IMAM HUSSAIN,IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH,HAZIR IMAM ALL IMAMS HAVE SAME NOOR BUT THEIR PHYSICAL BODY ARE NOT SAME THATS WHY THE BODY IS NOT GOD.
ACCORDING TO ABU ALI MISSIONARY SOME NON ISMAILIS THINK ISMAILIS AS KAFIR AS THEY SAY GOD IS HUMAN BUT ACTUALLY ISMAILIS NOT BELIEVE PHYSICAL BODY AS GOD BUT BELIEVE NOOR AS GOD WHICH IS IN BODY OF IMAM
I SAID YOU TO READ HISTORY BOOK NOORUM MUBIN IN WHICH A LITTLE DESCRIPTION IS GIVEN ABOUT NUSAIRIS SO YOU CAN FIND OUT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ISMAILIS AND NUSAIRIS.YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT NUSAYRIS AND ISMAILIS AND THEIR CONCEPT ABOUT IMAM IS DIFFERENT FROM ISMAILIS.
VISNU [GOD] MANIFEST HIMSELF IN HUMAN BODY OF RAM AND KRISHNA.
With the body and the noor and all His attributes, features, highlights, etc. - Allah/Manifest Imam is One and there is none
WHEN I SAY THERE ARE TWO ALLAH OR IMAM?I SAID THAT PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD.NOOR OF IMAM IS SAME NOOR.IMAM ALI,IMAM HUSSAIN,IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH,HAZIR IMAM ALL IMAMS HAVE SAME NOOR BUT THEIR PHYSICAL BODY ARE NOT SAME THATS WHY THE BODY IS NOT GOD.
ACCORDING TO ABU ALI MISSIONARY SOME NON ISMAILIS THINK ISMAILIS AS KAFIR AS THEY SAY GOD IS HUMAN BUT ACTUALLY ISMAILIS NOT BELIEVE PHYSICAL BODY AS GOD BUT BELIEVE NOOR AS GOD WHICH IS IN BODY OF IMAM
I SAID YOU TO READ HISTORY BOOK NOORUM MUBIN IN WHICH A LITTLE DESCRIPTION IS GIVEN ABOUT NUSAIRIS SO YOU CAN FIND OUT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ISMAILIS AND NUSAIRIS.YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT NUSAYRIS AND ISMAILIS AND THEIR CONCEPT ABOUT IMAM IS DIFFERENT FROM ISMAILIS.
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aniskamdar
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Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
Last edited by aniskamdar on Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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star_munir
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YOU SAID THAT
The Quran is clear and the Dua is clear and the Farmans are clear and the fact is Allah is One and includes all his attributes, features, characteristics, highlights including the body and the light of the heavens and the earth.
I NEVER SAID THAT THIS IS NOT CORRECT.I AGREE WITH THIS.
ACTUALLY YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING ME. I WANT TO SAY THAT PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD AND THIS IS MENTION IN GINANS AND FARMANS.
YOU CAN NOT SEE GOD WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES.YOU MAY KNOW THE STORY OF HAZRAT MUSA[PBUH]
SO GOD COMES IN HUMAN FORM.I THINK YOU KNOW ABOUT CONCEPT OF DAS AVTAAR .GOD TAKES AVTAAR OR INCARNATIONS.
YOU CAN SAY INCARNATION OF GOD AS GOD BECAUSE INCLUDES ALL ATTRIBUTES,FEATURES,CHARACTERISTICS AND NOOR BUT THE HUMAN BODY IS HUMAN THATS WHY IT CHANGES BUT THE POWER THE AUTHORITY AND THE NOOR REMAINS SAME.
The Quran is clear and the Dua is clear and the Farmans are clear and the fact is Allah is One and includes all his attributes, features, characteristics, highlights including the body and the light of the heavens and the earth.
I NEVER SAID THAT THIS IS NOT CORRECT.I AGREE WITH THIS.
ACTUALLY YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING ME. I WANT TO SAY THAT PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD AND THIS IS MENTION IN GINANS AND FARMANS.
YOU CAN NOT SEE GOD WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES.YOU MAY KNOW THE STORY OF HAZRAT MUSA[PBUH]
SO GOD COMES IN HUMAN FORM.I THINK YOU KNOW ABOUT CONCEPT OF DAS AVTAAR .GOD TAKES AVTAAR OR INCARNATIONS.
YOU CAN SAY INCARNATION OF GOD AS GOD BECAUSE INCLUDES ALL ATTRIBUTES,FEATURES,CHARACTERISTICS AND NOOR BUT THE HUMAN BODY IS HUMAN THATS WHY IT CHANGES BUT THE POWER THE AUTHORITY AND THE NOOR REMAINS SAME.
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star_munir
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I KNOW THE FARMAN OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH ABOUT NUSAIRY WHO WAS ONE PERSON.WE CAN SAY THAT HIS CONCEPT ABOUT IMAM IS SIMILAR TO THAT OF ISMAILIS
BUT I AM TELLING ABOUT NUSARIS WHICH IS NAME OF A SECT.AND THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION IS ALSO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS.ALL SECTS OF ISLAM BELIEVE IN ONE GOD THAT NOT MEANS THEY ARE SAME SIMILARLY ALTHOUGH NUSAIRIS BELIEVE HAZRAT ALI AS GOD THAT NOT MEANS THEY ARE SAME LIKE ISMAILIS.
IN HISTORY BOOK NOORUM MUBIN THERE IS DESCRIPTION OF SOME SECTS WHICH BELIEVES IMAM AS ALLAH BUT THAT NOT MEANS ALL ARE ISMAILIS FOR EXAMPLE ALI ALLAHYON IS A SECT ACCORDING TO WHICH SUN IS A HOLY SYMBOL BUT ISMAILIS NOT BELIVE SUN AS HOLY SYMBOL.
BUT I AM TELLING ABOUT NUSARIS WHICH IS NAME OF A SECT.AND THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION IS ALSO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS.ALL SECTS OF ISLAM BELIEVE IN ONE GOD THAT NOT MEANS THEY ARE SAME SIMILARLY ALTHOUGH NUSAIRIS BELIEVE HAZRAT ALI AS GOD THAT NOT MEANS THEY ARE SAME LIKE ISMAILIS.
IN HISTORY BOOK NOORUM MUBIN THERE IS DESCRIPTION OF SOME SECTS WHICH BELIEVES IMAM AS ALLAH BUT THAT NOT MEANS ALL ARE ISMAILIS FOR EXAMPLE ALI ALLAHYON IS A SECT ACCORDING TO WHICH SUN IS A HOLY SYMBOL BUT ISMAILIS NOT BELIVE SUN AS HOLY SYMBOL.
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aniskamdar
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Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
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star_munir
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YOU YOURSELF TOLD ME THAT
Refer to the history of Prophet Muhammad and refer to the history of Ali. They have led worldly lives as human beings.
THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING YOU.
WE SAY THAT HAZIR IMAM WAS BORN ON 13 DECEMBER THAT NOT MEANS THAT GOD WAS BORN ON 13 DECEMBER [BECAUSE BEFORE HAZIR IMAM NOOR OF ALLAH WAS IN BODY OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH] BUT WHEN WE PRAY FROM IMAM THAT NOT MEANS WE ARE ASKING HELP FROM A HUMAN BEING.
YOU SAID ISMAILIS NEVER WORSHIP THOSE WHICH DOES NOT EXIST. WHEN DO I SAY ISMAILIS WORSHIP THOSE WHICH DOES NOT EXIST?
WHERE IS FARMAN TO WORSHIP PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM?ISMAILIS DO NOT MAKE IDOL OF IMAMS FOR WORSHIPPING.
IF THE BODY OF IMAM IS GOD THAN IT WOULD NEVER CHANGE AND YOU WOULD SEE HAZIR IMAM LIKE HAZRAT ALI.THE FACE OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH IS DIFFERENT FROM HAZIR IMAM BUT THE NOOR IS SAME.NOOR IS GOD WHICH NEVER DIES,WHICH HAS NO BIRTH NOR DEATH.
IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH SAID THAT
1 A JAMMATO TUM HAMAY CHOTA MAT SAMAJHNA.HUM AAL-E-RASOOL HAIN.HUMARAY DADA HAZRAT AMIRUL MOMININ AUR HUMARI DADI BIBI FATIMA KHATOON-E-JANAT HAIN.HUM ALI AUR NABI DONO KAI NOOR HAIN AGARCHA UMAR [AGE] MAI CHOTAY HAIN MAGAR BARAY HAIN.
2 IMAM KA NOOR AIK HI HAI IS KAY ROOP ALAG ALAG HAIM JAISAY BIJLI KAI BULB NEELAY[BLUE]LAL[RED]PEELAY[YELLOW]AUR SABZ[GREEN] RANG KAI HOTAY HAIN MAGAR ROSHNI AIK HI HOTI HAI.ASLIAT [REALITY] IS KI AIK HAI ROOP ALAG ALAG HAIN.
3 JAMAT KAI PAAS HUM MURTAZA ALI KAY NOOR HAZIR WA NAZIR BAITHAY HAIN IS KA TUMHAI SACHA YAQEEN HONA CHAHIYE .HUM IS DUNIYA MAI JAMA PEHNTAY AUR UTARTAY HAIN MAGAR HUMARA NOOR AZAL [ BEGINING]SAY AIK HI CHALA AA RAHA HAI IS LIYE TUMHAI AIK HI NOOR DEKHNA CHAHIYE.
Refer to the history of Prophet Muhammad and refer to the history of Ali. They have led worldly lives as human beings.
THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING YOU.
WE SAY THAT HAZIR IMAM WAS BORN ON 13 DECEMBER THAT NOT MEANS THAT GOD WAS BORN ON 13 DECEMBER [BECAUSE BEFORE HAZIR IMAM NOOR OF ALLAH WAS IN BODY OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH] BUT WHEN WE PRAY FROM IMAM THAT NOT MEANS WE ARE ASKING HELP FROM A HUMAN BEING.
YOU SAID ISMAILIS NEVER WORSHIP THOSE WHICH DOES NOT EXIST. WHEN DO I SAY ISMAILIS WORSHIP THOSE WHICH DOES NOT EXIST?
WHERE IS FARMAN TO WORSHIP PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM?ISMAILIS DO NOT MAKE IDOL OF IMAMS FOR WORSHIPPING.
IF THE BODY OF IMAM IS GOD THAN IT WOULD NEVER CHANGE AND YOU WOULD SEE HAZIR IMAM LIKE HAZRAT ALI.THE FACE OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH IS DIFFERENT FROM HAZIR IMAM BUT THE NOOR IS SAME.NOOR IS GOD WHICH NEVER DIES,WHICH HAS NO BIRTH NOR DEATH.
IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH SAID THAT
1 A JAMMATO TUM HAMAY CHOTA MAT SAMAJHNA.HUM AAL-E-RASOOL HAIN.HUMARAY DADA HAZRAT AMIRUL MOMININ AUR HUMARI DADI BIBI FATIMA KHATOON-E-JANAT HAIN.HUM ALI AUR NABI DONO KAI NOOR HAIN AGARCHA UMAR [AGE] MAI CHOTAY HAIN MAGAR BARAY HAIN.
2 IMAM KA NOOR AIK HI HAI IS KAY ROOP ALAG ALAG HAIM JAISAY BIJLI KAI BULB NEELAY[BLUE]LAL[RED]PEELAY[YELLOW]AUR SABZ[GREEN] RANG KAI HOTAY HAIN MAGAR ROSHNI AIK HI HOTI HAI.ASLIAT [REALITY] IS KI AIK HAI ROOP ALAG ALAG HAIN.
3 JAMAT KAI PAAS HUM MURTAZA ALI KAY NOOR HAZIR WA NAZIR BAITHAY HAIN IS KA TUMHAI SACHA YAQEEN HONA CHAHIYE .HUM IS DUNIYA MAI JAMA PEHNTAY AUR UTARTAY HAIN MAGAR HUMARA NOOR AZAL [ BEGINING]SAY AIK HI CHALA AA RAHA HAI IS LIYE TUMHAI AIK HI NOOR DEKHNA CHAHIYE.
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star_munir
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THERE IS ONE GOD AND THAT IS ALLAH.
ALLAH IS NOOR OF HEAVENS AND EARTH.
THERE IS NO PHYSICAL BODY OF GOD.THERE ARE NO RELATIVES OF GOD.HE IS FROM BEGINING.HE IS NOT HUMAN.
IMAM IS NOOR OF ALLAH.
IMAM IS MAZHAR OF ALLAH.THE WORD MAZHAR MEANS INCARNATION,AVTAR OR MANIFESTATION.
YOU CAN NOT SEE GOD WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES.
BODY OF IMAM CHANGES BUT NOOR IS ALWAYS SAME AND THAT IS IN FARMANS AND GINANS.
WE CAN SAY GOD MANIFEST AS ALLAH AS IMAM IS THE HOLDER OF NOOR BUT IT NOT MEANS THE PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY OF IMAM IS OF ALLAH.
ALLAH IS NOOR OF HEAVENS AND EARTH.
THERE IS NO PHYSICAL BODY OF GOD.THERE ARE NO RELATIVES OF GOD.HE IS FROM BEGINING.HE IS NOT HUMAN.
IMAM IS NOOR OF ALLAH.
IMAM IS MAZHAR OF ALLAH.THE WORD MAZHAR MEANS INCARNATION,AVTAR OR MANIFESTATION.
YOU CAN NOT SEE GOD WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES.
BODY OF IMAM CHANGES BUT NOOR IS ALWAYS SAME AND THAT IS IN FARMANS AND GINANS.
WE CAN SAY GOD MANIFEST AS ALLAH AS IMAM IS THE HOLDER OF NOOR BUT IT NOT MEANS THE PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY OF IMAM IS OF ALLAH.
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star_munir
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Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
Last edited by aniskamdar on Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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star_munir
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Now you are saying what I have said you in different words that God take avtars and not directly comes.
I think either you are confused or not understanding what I am saying to you.
God manifest is God.Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah explains with the example that although bulb have different colours but gives same light in the same way All Imams have same Noor of God.
If your theory is correct than uptil now Imam would never die because you consider physical body of Imam as God.
ISMAILIS DO NOT WORSHIP PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY OF IMAM
But the fact is human body dies but Noor never dies so Physical body is not God Noor is God which never dies and is Same in every Imam. I hope every thing is clear from the Farmans which I quoted read them again and try to understand them.Ismailism is what the Imam says.
I dont think I need to explain to you any more becaue every thing is clear from Farman.
Now some questions for you
DONT FORGET THE REAL TOPIC OF DISCUSSION.NOW YOU AGREE THAT ISMAILIS ARE DIFFERENT FROM NUSAIRYS?
WHERE IN QURAN YOU READ THAT ALLAH IS HUMAN AS GOD IS NOT HUMAN LIKE YOU AND ME.QUOTE THE VERSE WITH PROPER REFERENCE.
I think either you are confused or not understanding what I am saying to you.
God manifest is God.Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah explains with the example that although bulb have different colours but gives same light in the same way All Imams have same Noor of God.
If your theory is correct than uptil now Imam would never die because you consider physical body of Imam as God.
ISMAILIS DO NOT WORSHIP PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY OF IMAM
But the fact is human body dies but Noor never dies so Physical body is not God Noor is God which never dies and is Same in every Imam. I hope every thing is clear from the Farmans which I quoted read them again and try to understand them.Ismailism is what the Imam says.
I dont think I need to explain to you any more becaue every thing is clear from Farman.
Now some questions for you
DONT FORGET THE REAL TOPIC OF DISCUSSION.NOW YOU AGREE THAT ISMAILIS ARE DIFFERENT FROM NUSAIRYS?
WHERE IN QURAN YOU READ THAT ALLAH IS HUMAN AS GOD IS NOT HUMAN LIKE YOU AND ME.QUOTE THE VERSE WITH PROPER REFERENCE.
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star_munir
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There are many sects which believes Hazrat Ali as Allah like
1 Ali Allahyoun
2 Nusairy
3 Dorozi
4Mowlai
5 Khazarvi
6 Sovedani
7 Batini
8 Shamsi etc
This not means that they are similar to Ismailis as they beleve Ali as Allah.
As you can not say that Sunni and Ismailis are same as they also believe in Allah and Prophet Mohammad[PBUH}
1 Ali Allahyoun
2 Nusairy
3 Dorozi
4Mowlai
5 Khazarvi
6 Sovedani
7 Batini
8 Shamsi etc
This not means that they are similar to Ismailis as they beleve Ali as Allah.
As you can not say that Sunni and Ismailis are same as they also believe in Allah and Prophet Mohammad[PBUH}
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star_munir
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ACCORDING TO QURAN ALSO IMAM IS MAZHAR OF GOD AND NOOR OF IMAM ALWAYS REMAINS THE SAME.
35. Allâh is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as (if there were) a niche and within it a lamp, the lamp is in glass, the glass as it were a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east (i.e. neither it gets sun-rays only in the morning) nor of the west (i.e. nor it gets sun-rays only in the afternoon, but it is exposed to the sun all day long), whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself), though no fire touched it. Light upon Light! Allâh guides to His Light whom He wills. And Allâh sets forth parables for mankind, and Allâh is All-Knower of everything.
35. Allâh is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as (if there were) a niche and within it a lamp, the lamp is in glass, the glass as it were a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east (i.e. neither it gets sun-rays only in the morning) nor of the west (i.e. nor it gets sun-rays only in the afternoon, but it is exposed to the sun all day long), whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself), though no fire touched it. Light upon Light! Allâh guides to His Light whom He wills. And Allâh sets forth parables for mankind, and Allâh is All-Knower of everything.
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aniskamdar
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Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
Last edited by aniskamdar on Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:57 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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star_munir
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YOU ARE READING MY REPLIES COMPLETELY OR NOT?TRY TO REAS CARE FULLY AND DONT SAY FALSEHOOD ABOUT ME.I NEVER SAID THAT
LORD IS NOT ALLAH I BELEVE ALLAH AS LORD AND GOD.
[BUT REMEMBER LORD NOT MEANS HUMAN BEING]
I NEVER SAID THAT LORD SHOULD NOT BE WORSHIPPED
I NEVER SAID THAT LORD DOES NOT MANIFEST INFACT I TOLD YOU THAT LORD HAS TAKEN MANIFESTATION IN THE FORM OF IMAM .
I HAVE EXPLAINED YOU CONCEPT OF IMAMAT IN LIGHT OF FARMANS OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH AND YOU ARE CALLING I AM SAYING NONSENSE ABOUT ISMAILISM.
I THINK YOU ARE WRITING EVERY TIME WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM SAYING. I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES THAT NUSAIRIS ARE PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT SECT.I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUSAIRY WHO SAID ALI IS ALLAH AND WAS KILLED 70 TIMES NOOOO I AM SAYING ABOUT NUSAIRY WHICH IS A SECT READ MY PREVIOUS POST IN WHICH I TOLD THAT ONE SAME BELIEF NOT MAKES THAT BOTH ARE SIMILAR.ISMAILIS BELIEVE IN HAZIR IMAM.THEY BELIEVE THAT IMAM IS ALWAYS PRESENT.YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS AND CONTINUOSLY CRITICIZING ME ABOUT NUSAIRY ALTHOUGH THE TOPIC IS DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ISMAILIS AND NUSAIRIS.[NUSAIRIS IS A PLURAL NOT ONE PERSON.]
LORD IS NOT ALLAH I BELEVE ALLAH AS LORD AND GOD.
[BUT REMEMBER LORD NOT MEANS HUMAN BEING]
I NEVER SAID THAT LORD SHOULD NOT BE WORSHIPPED
I NEVER SAID THAT LORD DOES NOT MANIFEST INFACT I TOLD YOU THAT LORD HAS TAKEN MANIFESTATION IN THE FORM OF IMAM .
I HAVE EXPLAINED YOU CONCEPT OF IMAMAT IN LIGHT OF FARMANS OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH AND YOU ARE CALLING I AM SAYING NONSENSE ABOUT ISMAILISM.
I THINK YOU ARE WRITING EVERY TIME WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM SAYING. I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES THAT NUSAIRIS ARE PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT SECT.I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUSAIRY WHO SAID ALI IS ALLAH AND WAS KILLED 70 TIMES NOOOO I AM SAYING ABOUT NUSAIRY WHICH IS A SECT READ MY PREVIOUS POST IN WHICH I TOLD THAT ONE SAME BELIEF NOT MAKES THAT BOTH ARE SIMILAR.ISMAILIS BELIEVE IN HAZIR IMAM.THEY BELIEVE THAT IMAM IS ALWAYS PRESENT.YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS AND CONTINUOSLY CRITICIZING ME ABOUT NUSAIRY ALTHOUGH THE TOPIC IS DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ISMAILIS AND NUSAIRIS.[NUSAIRIS IS A PLURAL NOT ONE PERSON.]
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star_munir
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LET ME EXPLAIN YOU WITH THE HELP OF TWO EXAMPLE
2 GODS:
ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY THE BODY OF IMAM IS BODY OF GOD.ALL MUSLIMS INCLUDING ISMAILIS BELIEVE IN ONE GOD AND IT IS IN DUA,FARMAN,QURAN AND GINAN.HAZIR IMAM WAS NOT BORN AFTER THE DEATH OF SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH SO AT THE TIME OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH THERE WERE TWO GODS ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY AS ACCORDING TO YOU PHYSICAL BODY IS GOD SO THERE WERE TWO GODS ONE IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH ANOTHE HAZIR IMAM WHO WAS NOT IMAM AT THAT TIME BUT I SAID NOOR IS GOD.WHEN NOOR OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH CAME INTO THE BODY OF HAZIR IMAM WE START CALLING HIM GOD SO WE BELIEVE IN NOOR OF IMAM AND IN SAJDA ISMAILIS START SAYING NOOR MOWLANA SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAIN INSTEAS OF NOOR MOWLANA SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH.
Q WHY ISMAILIS CALL IMAM AS GOD AS PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD BUT NOOR INSIDE BODY IS GOD?LET ME EXPLAIN YOU BY GIVING ANOTHER EXAMPLE
YOU WANT TO BUY CHOCOLATE YOU SAY TO SHOPKEEPER GIVE ME CHOCOLATE.HE GIVES YOU CHOCOLATE WHICH IS PACKED IN WRAPPER.YOU WILL NOT SAY THIS IS PACKET YOU WILL SAY IT IS CHOCOLATE BECAUSE INSIDE THE PACKET IS CHOCOLATE SIMALARLY BODY OF IMAM IS ALSO HUMAN BUT INSIDE HIS BODY IS NOOR SO ISMAILIS CALL ALI ALLAH BUT IF I SAY A CHOCOLATE [WHICH IS INSIDE PACKET] AS CHOCOLATE IT NOT MEANS THAT THE PACKET IS ALSO CHOCOLATE SIMILARLY IF WE SAY IMAM AS GOD WE NOT MEAN TO SAY HIS PHYSICAL BODY AS GOD BUT WE SAY AS INSIDE HIS BODY IS GOD.
I THINK I HAVE EXPLAINED YOU ENOUGH SAME IS IN GINAN QURAN AND FARMAN.I HAVE QUOTED FEW FARMANS,A QURANIC VERSE AND THEORY OF AVTAR, I THINK IT IS ENOUGH.STILL YOU THINK THERE IS ANY THING WRONG ASK ANY MISSIONARY AND HE WILL SAY THE SAME.
2 GODS:
ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY THE BODY OF IMAM IS BODY OF GOD.ALL MUSLIMS INCLUDING ISMAILIS BELIEVE IN ONE GOD AND IT IS IN DUA,FARMAN,QURAN AND GINAN.HAZIR IMAM WAS NOT BORN AFTER THE DEATH OF SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH SO AT THE TIME OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH THERE WERE TWO GODS ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY AS ACCORDING TO YOU PHYSICAL BODY IS GOD SO THERE WERE TWO GODS ONE IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH ANOTHE HAZIR IMAM WHO WAS NOT IMAM AT THAT TIME BUT I SAID NOOR IS GOD.WHEN NOOR OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH CAME INTO THE BODY OF HAZIR IMAM WE START CALLING HIM GOD SO WE BELIEVE IN NOOR OF IMAM AND IN SAJDA ISMAILIS START SAYING NOOR MOWLANA SHAH KARIM AL HUSSAIN INSTEAS OF NOOR MOWLANA SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH.
Q WHY ISMAILIS CALL IMAM AS GOD AS PHYSICAL BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD BUT NOOR INSIDE BODY IS GOD?LET ME EXPLAIN YOU BY GIVING ANOTHER EXAMPLE
YOU WANT TO BUY CHOCOLATE YOU SAY TO SHOPKEEPER GIVE ME CHOCOLATE.HE GIVES YOU CHOCOLATE WHICH IS PACKED IN WRAPPER.YOU WILL NOT SAY THIS IS PACKET YOU WILL SAY IT IS CHOCOLATE BECAUSE INSIDE THE PACKET IS CHOCOLATE SIMALARLY BODY OF IMAM IS ALSO HUMAN BUT INSIDE HIS BODY IS NOOR SO ISMAILIS CALL ALI ALLAH BUT IF I SAY A CHOCOLATE [WHICH IS INSIDE PACKET] AS CHOCOLATE IT NOT MEANS THAT THE PACKET IS ALSO CHOCOLATE SIMILARLY IF WE SAY IMAM AS GOD WE NOT MEAN TO SAY HIS PHYSICAL BODY AS GOD BUT WE SAY AS INSIDE HIS BODY IS GOD.
I THINK I HAVE EXPLAINED YOU ENOUGH SAME IS IN GINAN QURAN AND FARMAN.I HAVE QUOTED FEW FARMANS,A QURANIC VERSE AND THEORY OF AVTAR, I THINK IT IS ENOUGH.STILL YOU THINK THERE IS ANY THING WRONG ASK ANY MISSIONARY AND HE WILL SAY THE SAME.
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star_munir
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FROM WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN HERE IS A CONCLUSION. MY QUESTION IS WHICH POINT IS WRONG AND WHY?WHICH IS AGAINST QURAN,GINAN ,DUA ETC
1 THERE IS ONE GOD HE IS ALLAH
2 ALLAH IS NOOR .HE HAS NOT BODY.
3 YOU CAN NOT SEE ALLAH WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES AS HE IS NOOR.
4 IMAM IS INCARNATION/MANIFESTATION OF GOD.
5 ALTHOUGH BODY OF IMAM IS OF HUMAN BUT HE IS MAZHAR OF GOD OR INSIDE BODY IS NOOR .
6 ISMAILISM IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL SECTS AND RELIGION BE THEY SUNNI,SHIA,HINDU,BUDDHIST ETC AS WE BELIEVE IN HAZIR IMAM.
WHICH PONT IS FALSE HOOD TELL ME.
YOU SAY WRONG THAT GOD IS HUMAN AS HUMAN TAKE BIRTH,DIES ETC GOD IS CREATOR NOT A PART OF CREATION AND NOT A HUMAN LIKE YOU AND ME AND NOT ONLY ISMAILIS BUT THE PEOPLE OF ALL RELIGION WILL NOT AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS MATTER.
1 THERE IS ONE GOD HE IS ALLAH
2 ALLAH IS NOOR .HE HAS NOT BODY.
3 YOU CAN NOT SEE ALLAH WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES AS HE IS NOOR.
4 IMAM IS INCARNATION/MANIFESTATION OF GOD.
5 ALTHOUGH BODY OF IMAM IS OF HUMAN BUT HE IS MAZHAR OF GOD OR INSIDE BODY IS NOOR .
6 ISMAILISM IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL SECTS AND RELIGION BE THEY SUNNI,SHIA,HINDU,BUDDHIST ETC AS WE BELIEVE IN HAZIR IMAM.
WHICH PONT IS FALSE HOOD TELL ME.
YOU SAY WRONG THAT GOD IS HUMAN AS HUMAN TAKE BIRTH,DIES ETC GOD IS CREATOR NOT A PART OF CREATION AND NOT A HUMAN LIKE YOU AND ME AND NOT ONLY ISMAILIS BUT THE PEOPLE OF ALL RELIGION WILL NOT AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS MATTER.
Last edited by star_munir on Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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star_munir
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aniskamdar
- Posts: 11
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Contents deleted by myself - I did not appreciate Admin's [Forum Department] personal comments of September 13 - 2003 [Canada Time] - and I do not agree with Admin's personal comments.
Last edited by aniskamdar on Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:59 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
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YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERS OF MY QUESTIONS.I HAVE EXPLAINED YOU IN THE LIGHT OF FARMAN QURAN AND GINAN AND EVERY THING IS CLEAR EVEN A SMALL CHILDREN CAN UNDERSTAND BUT I THING UNNECESSARY ARGUMENT IS YOUR HABBIT.
YOUR INTERPRETATION IS WRONG IN LIGHT OF GINANS QURAN AND FARMAN BUT STILL YOU ARE SAYING THAT I AM WRONG.
I HAVE REQUESTED YOU AND AGAIN TO READ AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE EXAMPLE OF ELECTRIC BULBS WHICH IMAM GAVE IN HIS FARMAN AND EXAMPLE OF CHOCOLATE GIVEN BY ME.READ TWO EXAMPLES POSTED BY ME AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND.
SURPRISING IS THAT YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO SEVERAL OF MY COMMENTS IN LAST POST IN WHICH I PROVED THAT NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS ARE DIFFERENT SECTS AND IMAM IS MAZHAR OF GOD ETC AND STILL SAYING I AM WRONG AND ARGUING WITH ME.
I DONT LIKE YOUR HABBIT OF CHANGING THE MAIN TOPIC LIKE THIS ONE IS ABOUT NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS AND YOU ARE DISCUSSING ABOUT SEVERAL OTHER TOPICS BUT STILL I AM REPLYING AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN YOU BUT STILL YOU ARE SAYING I AM WRONG.ALTHOUGH EVERY THING IS CLEAR AND I THINK I HAVE NO ANY WORDS LEFT MORE TO EXPLAIN YOU IN MORE SIMPLE MANNER.EVEN MOST FOOLISH PERSON CAN UNDERSTAND THIS.IT SEEMS THAT YOU ARE FEELING SHAME TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH AND THATS WHY YOU TRIED TO CHANGE TOPICS AND SOME TIMES WRITE WHAT I WROTE IN OTHER WORDS.
YOU HAVE SAID THAT ACCORDING TO QURAN LORD IS ALLAH. I HAVE TOLD YOU THAT LORD NOT MEANS HIMAN IT MEANS MOWLA.
I SAID TO YOU THAT GOD NEVER DIES NEVER EATS ETC THE NOOR OF IMAM IS GOD.
IT IS GOOD TO ACCEPT MISTAKES.PLEASE DONT DO UNNECESSARY DEBATES AND TRY TO ACCEPT MISTAKES.
NOW DO YOU AGREE THAT NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS ARE DIFFERENT SECTS AS ISMAILIS BELIEVE IN HAZIR IMAM?
YOUR INTERPRETATION IS WRONG IN LIGHT OF GINANS QURAN AND FARMAN BUT STILL YOU ARE SAYING THAT I AM WRONG.
I HAVE REQUESTED YOU AND AGAIN TO READ AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE EXAMPLE OF ELECTRIC BULBS WHICH IMAM GAVE IN HIS FARMAN AND EXAMPLE OF CHOCOLATE GIVEN BY ME.READ TWO EXAMPLES POSTED BY ME AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND.
SURPRISING IS THAT YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO SEVERAL OF MY COMMENTS IN LAST POST IN WHICH I PROVED THAT NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS ARE DIFFERENT SECTS AND IMAM IS MAZHAR OF GOD ETC AND STILL SAYING I AM WRONG AND ARGUING WITH ME.
I DONT LIKE YOUR HABBIT OF CHANGING THE MAIN TOPIC LIKE THIS ONE IS ABOUT NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS AND YOU ARE DISCUSSING ABOUT SEVERAL OTHER TOPICS BUT STILL I AM REPLYING AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN YOU BUT STILL YOU ARE SAYING I AM WRONG.ALTHOUGH EVERY THING IS CLEAR AND I THINK I HAVE NO ANY WORDS LEFT MORE TO EXPLAIN YOU IN MORE SIMPLE MANNER.EVEN MOST FOOLISH PERSON CAN UNDERSTAND THIS.IT SEEMS THAT YOU ARE FEELING SHAME TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH AND THATS WHY YOU TRIED TO CHANGE TOPICS AND SOME TIMES WRITE WHAT I WROTE IN OTHER WORDS.
YOU HAVE SAID THAT ACCORDING TO QURAN LORD IS ALLAH. I HAVE TOLD YOU THAT LORD NOT MEANS HIMAN IT MEANS MOWLA.
I SAID TO YOU THAT GOD NEVER DIES NEVER EATS ETC THE NOOR OF IMAM IS GOD.
IT IS GOOD TO ACCEPT MISTAKES.PLEASE DONT DO UNNECESSARY DEBATES AND TRY TO ACCEPT MISTAKES.
NOW DO YOU AGREE THAT NUSAIRIS AND ISMAILIS ARE DIFFERENT SECTS AS ISMAILIS BELIEVE IN HAZIR IMAM?
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
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IMAM,BODY,NOOR AND GOD
I HAVE TRIED A LOT TO EXPLAIN YOU. I WAS SURPRISED TO FIND OUT THAT YOU EVEN LAUGHT ON FARMANS THATS WHY I TOLD YOU THAT ISMAILISM IS WHAT THE IMAM SAYS NOT WHAT YOU SAYS.
I CAN NOT EXPLAIN YOU IN MORE SIMPLER TERMS JUST YESTERDAY I HEARD THE WAEZ OF ABU ALI MISSIONARY [ A SENIOR ISMAILI MISSIONARY] ABOUT ISLAM AND ISMAILISM IN WHICH HE SAID IN CLEAR WORDS THAT THE BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD THE NOOR INSIDE BODY IS GOD. TRY TO CONTACT WITH HIM AND HE WILL EXPLAIN YOU THE CONCEPT OF IMAM.
I HAVE TRIED A LOT TO EXPLAIN YOU. I WAS SURPRISED TO FIND OUT THAT YOU EVEN LAUGHT ON FARMANS THATS WHY I TOLD YOU THAT ISMAILISM IS WHAT THE IMAM SAYS NOT WHAT YOU SAYS.
I CAN NOT EXPLAIN YOU IN MORE SIMPLER TERMS JUST YESTERDAY I HEARD THE WAEZ OF ABU ALI MISSIONARY [ A SENIOR ISMAILI MISSIONARY] ABOUT ISLAM AND ISMAILISM IN WHICH HE SAID IN CLEAR WORDS THAT THE BODY OF IMAM IS NOT GOD THE NOOR INSIDE BODY IS GOD. TRY TO CONTACT WITH HIM AND HE WILL EXPLAIN YOU THE CONCEPT OF IMAM.