Imams of the periods of Moses and Jesus

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:00 pm

Can anyone shed any light on the identity of the Imams during the periods of Moses and Jesus and in between?

I know that during the latter part of Moses' prophethood, the Imam was Aaron. The cloudy part is on how Aaron became the Imam.

Also, who was the Imam of Jesus' period? The old dua says Shamunassaffa - simon peter, but is this realy correct?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:47 pm

What is in Dua is definately correct.You must not have any doubt on it.

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:54 pm

The old dua gives the name Shamun as-Shaffa as an Imam, but the evidence points to Yakub (James) the brother of Jesus as most probably being the successor and companion of Jesus.

We lack the evidence on Simon Peter's authority, genealogy, and how he could have been Imam in the first place.

nagib · Post by **nagib** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:59 pm

However, all of the sources I have read from Persian and Arabic Ismaili authors quotes Shamun al-Safa as Imam for the period of Jesus. There are books published by Ivanow, those published by makarem etc... So it is not the Old Du'a only.

But even if it was, the Du'a was approuved by the Imam and therefore there can be no doubt about the name. It is only a matter of finding to which person of that period the name refered to.

Nagib
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kandani · Post by **kandani** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 10:50 am

Well, perhaps the name Shamun al-Saffa does not necessarily have to refer to Simon Peter. Perhaps it could in fact refer to James the brother of Jesus?

I believe older sources say Simon Peter because that Catholic church derives its authority from him.

I myself have a quote from Simon Peter which says that James the brother of Jesus is the chief apostle of Jesus.

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 10:51 am

Can you name me the sources where the info comes from....ie: books by Ivanow and Makarem?

nagib · Post by **nagib** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:36 am

Check Makarem' translation of:

Abu Firas: `Ash-Shafiya' -- An Isma'ili Treatise. Edited and translated with an introduction and commentary. Beirut: American University of Beirut, 1966. 260 pp.

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:42 pm

i read that source. it contains errors; and also says that aaron and simon peter were only trustee mustawda imams and not the actual imams of those periods.

nagib · Post by **nagib** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:01 pm

Many of the Imam Mustakar were Imam Mustawda during the Imamat of their father or grand-father.

So was the case of Imam Aga Ali Shah whose Farmans we have in manuscripts. These farmans where made as Imam Mustawda [Pir] during the Imamat of Aga HassanAli Shah but when Aga Ali Shah became Imam, the farmans style also changed and he continued making farmans as Imam Mustakar.

So there is no contradiction between what is said in Makarem's book and what may have been the reality.

Nagib

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:36 am

Makarem writes that the Imam of Moses' period was Adnan, and that the Imam of the period of jesus was Khuzaymah. He also writes that Prophet Adam, Noah, and Abraham were also Imams. He writes that Aaron and Simon Peter were the Wasi's of Moses and Jesus, but they were not genuine Imams, rather they were chief assistants to those Prophets.